OtherGround Forums Florida Man Stands his Ground over Parking Dispute

8/22/18 12:56 AM
1/1/01
Posts: 41700
Fake Pie -
pfsjkd -

“I don't know what the conversation was, but he might have been backing up to get the perfect distance for a soccer kick to the head.”

This is one aspect I mentioned before, IF the pusher was talking shit it could *possibly* mitigate the shoot. 

“Or he could have rushed the guy if he tried to get up off the ground.”

But he didn’t rush the guy. You don’t get to attack people for shit that they *could* do. If that were the case you could shoot a guy walking toward you on the street because he *could* push you off the curb into oncoming traffic. 

I know what you’re trying to say but the bottom line with self defense is that your fear has to be based on facts. The fact is he was *backing up when he was shot*. You can’t start an attack when your backing away from someone. 

If this case goes to a jury trial, the only way the shooter is getting off is if he can convince the jury that he perceived that the attack was on going. That is going to be exceedingly difficult based on that video. 

We should bet :) 

I’m not saying it’s impossible, just difficult. 

8/22/18 2:37 AM
1/27/14
Posts: 5629
tourist -
pfsjkd - 
tourist - What do you think the actual potential for the shover to let it go would be? 50/50? What do you think the shover was saying to the shooter while he stood over him? I imagine it was some pretty terrifying stuff like "motherfucker you move and I'm a kill you". Maybe he was apologizing for over-reacting and assaulting him, but I doubt it.

On the surface of the legal situation, I think it was in keeping with florida law.

You can’t necessarily attack somebody because of their potential to harm you. There has to be facts you articulate to show that you were in imminent danger. A guy backing up after he pushed you doesn’t support a conclusion that you’re going to be imminently attacked even though he COULD easily attack you viscously given that you’re now on the ground and he’s not. 

All the videos you could show of people getting knocked to the ground and beaten have a bearing in that in all cases the attacker had to move *toward* the victim, unlike what this guy did to the shooter. 


Well, he had already been battered and likely scared shitless. I don't know what the conversation was, but he might have been backing up to get the perfect distance for a soccer kick to the head. Or he could have rushed the guy if he tried to get up off the ground. These are the thoughts the shooter was likely to have.

The big fact is that if he hadn't attacked the guy he would still be alive. If he hadn't illegally parked in the handicapped zone the dude wouldn't have given his wife shit and nothing at all would have happened.

There are lessons here for everyone.

Battered? 

8/22/18 8:29 AM
1/1/01
Posts: 96752

What are the odds the Shooter gets shanked or shot by some people unhappy with this verdict?  He should probably not get into any more confrontations now that everyone knows to shoot first when dealing with him. 

8/22/18 2:42 PM
12/2/05
Posts: 74484
Stronghold - 

What are the odds the Shooter gets shanked or shot by some people unhappy with this verdict?  He should probably not get into any more confrontations now that everyone knows to shoot first when dealing with him. 


What verdict?
8/23/18 12:45 AM
1/1/01
Posts: 41701
OpenedUp - 
tourist -
pfsjkd - 
tourist - What do you think the actual potential for the shover to let it go would be? 50/50? What do you think the shover was saying to the shooter while he stood over him? I imagine it was some pretty terrifying stuff like "motherfucker you move and I'm a kill you". Maybe he was apologizing for over-reacting and assaulting him, but I doubt it.

On the surface of the legal situation, I think it was in keeping with florida law.

You can’t necessarily attack somebody because of their potential to harm you. There has to be facts you articulate to show that you were in imminent danger. A guy backing up after he pushed you doesn’t support a conclusion that you’re going to be imminently attacked even though he COULD easily attack you viscously given that you’re now on the ground and he’s not. 

All the videos you could show of people getting knocked to the ground and beaten have a bearing in that in all cases the attacker had to move *toward* the victim, unlike what this guy did to the shooter. 


Well, he had already been battered and likely scared shitless. I don't know what the conversation was, but he might have been backing up to get the perfect distance for a soccer kick to the head. Or he could have rushed the guy if he tried to get up off the ground. These are the thoughts the shooter was likely to have.

The big fact is that if he hadn't attacked the guy he would still be alive. If he hadn't illegally parked in the handicapped zone the dude wouldn't have given his wife shit and nothing at all would have happened.

There are lessons here for everyone.

Battered? 


Yes. Battered.

8/23/18 2:19 AM
6/8/08
Posts: 10197
pfsjkd -
OpenedUp - 
tourist -
pfsjkd - 
tourist - What do you think the actual potential for the shover to let it go would be? 50/50? What do you think the shover was saying to the shooter while he stood over him? I imagine it was some pretty terrifying stuff like "motherfucker you move and I'm a kill you". Maybe he was apologizing for over-reacting and assaulting him, but I doubt it.

On the surface of the legal situation, I think it was in keeping with florida law.

You can’t necessarily attack somebody because of their potential to harm you. There has to be facts you articulate to show that you were in imminent danger. A guy backing up after he pushed you doesn’t support a conclusion that you’re going to be imminently attacked even though he COULD easily attack you viscously given that you’re now on the ground and he’s not. 

All the videos you could show of people getting knocked to the ground and beaten have a bearing in that in all cases the attacker had to move *toward* the victim, unlike what this guy did to the shooter. 


Well, he had already been battered and likely scared shitless. I don't know what the conversation was, but he might have been backing up to get the perfect distance for a soccer kick to the head. Or he could have rushed the guy if he tried to get up off the ground. These are the thoughts the shooter was likely to have.

The big fact is that if he hadn't attacked the guy he would still be alive. If he hadn't illegally parked in the handicapped zone the dude wouldn't have given his wife shit and nothing at all would have happened.

There are lessons here for everyone.

Battered? 


Yes. Battered.

Words. They don't mean anything anymore, right? 

lol@battered. Learn the language. 

8/23/18 2:37 AM
12/2/05
Posts: 74544
Average -
pfsjkd -
OpenedUp - 
tourist -
pfsjkd - 
tourist - What do you think the actual potential for the shover to let it go would be? 50/50? What do you think the shover was saying to the shooter while he stood over him? I imagine it was some pretty terrifying stuff like "motherfucker you move and I'm a kill you". Maybe he was apologizing for over-reacting and assaulting him, but I doubt it.

On the surface of the legal situation, I think it was in keeping with florida law.

You can’t necessarily attack somebody because of their potential to harm you. There has to be facts you articulate to show that you were in imminent danger. A guy backing up after he pushed you doesn’t support a conclusion that you’re going to be imminently attacked even though he COULD easily attack you viscously given that you’re now on the ground and he’s not. 

All the videos you could show of people getting knocked to the ground and beaten have a bearing in that in all cases the attacker had to move *toward* the victim, unlike what this guy did to the shooter. 


Well, he had already been battered and likely scared shitless. I don't know what the conversation was, but he might have been backing up to get the perfect distance for a soccer kick to the head. Or he could have rushed the guy if he tried to get up off the ground. These are the thoughts the shooter was likely to have.

The big fact is that if he hadn't attacked the guy he would still be alive. If he hadn't illegally parked in the handicapped zone the dude wouldn't have given his wife shit and nothing at all would have happened.

There are lessons here for everyone.

Battered? 


Yes. Battered.

Words. They don't mean anything anymore, right? 

lol@battered. Learn the language. 

Battered just means touched without consent 

8/23/18 2:46 AM
1/27/14
Posts: 5632

It means being injured by repeated blows 

8/23/18 2:59 AM
6/8/08
Posts: 10203
OpenedUp -

It means being injured by repeated blows 

Thank you. 

8/23/18 3:01 AM
6/8/08
Posts: 10204
Fake Pie -
Average -
pfsjkd -
OpenedUp - 
tourist -
pfsjkd - 
tourist - What do you think the actual potential for the shover to let it go would be? 50/50? What do you think the shover was saying to the shooter while he stood over him? I imagine it was some pretty terrifying stuff like "motherfucker you move and I'm a kill you". Maybe he was apologizing for over-reacting and assaulting him, but I doubt it.

On the surface of the legal situation, I think it was in keeping with florida law.

You can’t necessarily attack somebody because of their potential to harm you. There has to be facts you articulate to show that you were in imminent danger. A guy backing up after he pushed you doesn’t support a conclusion that you’re going to be imminently attacked even though he COULD easily attack you viscously given that you’re now on the ground and he’s not. 

All the videos you could show of people getting knocked to the ground and beaten have a bearing in that in all cases the attacker had to move *toward* the victim, unlike what this guy did to the shooter. 


Well, he had already been battered and likely scared shitless. I don't know what the conversation was, but he might have been backing up to get the perfect distance for a soccer kick to the head. Or he could have rushed the guy if he tried to get up off the ground. These are the thoughts the shooter was likely to have.

The big fact is that if he hadn't attacked the guy he would still be alive. If he hadn't illegally parked in the handicapped zone the dude wouldn't have given his wife shit and nothing at all would have happened.

There are lessons here for everyone.

Battered? 


Yes. Battered.

Words. They don't mean anything anymore, right? 

lol@battered. Learn the language. 

Battered just means touched without consent 

You are better than that Fake Pie. Don't all of a sudden become a google disabled person. But you knew it was wrong before you wrote it, if we're being honest. 

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/battered

8/23/18 9:58 AM
1/1/01
Posts: 96787
tourist - If the shooter gets off of a criminal charge, he'll get fucked royally in civil court. He's alive though.

He was always going to be alive. The guy shoving him protecting his GF wasn't going to murder the old man.  He just wanted the fucker to stop being horrible and abusive to his gal

8/23/18 1:55 PM
11/23/11
Posts: 6568

 

8/23/18 2:21 PM
1/1/01
Posts: 44495

The two 18-year-olds called authorities when the black truck was still behind them.

One said he had stopped at a yellow light about noon on Jan. 10, 2012, and the man in the pickup began to honk and yell out the window. He motioned for the teen to walk back to the truck, according to the 18-year-old, then hung a black handgun out the window, taking out the magazine and putting it on his dashboard alongside another magazine.

The 18-year-old said he drove away with his friend, on U.S. 19 around Sunset Point Road, but the truck followed, then passed. The man slammed on his brakes, the teen recalled, and turned into the parking lot of an Arby’s at Curlew Road. The 18-year-old said he kept driving, but soon the black truck, a Toyota, had returned.

The man eventually broke off in a different direction, the teens said, but they had taken down his license plate number. Deputies traced it to Drejka and went to his house in Clearwater, according to the police report. He pulled into the driveway as they were leaving a business card.

Drejka told the deputy the other car had cut him off at State Road 580 and U.S. 19. He said he honked and yelled but did not follow the other car and did not show a gun. He did have one, however, a .40-caliber Glock in his center console. He also had a concealed carry permit.

The deputy was skeptical, according to the report, asking Drejka how the teens knew he had a gun.

The deputy wrote: "I informed Michael if he had displayed his weapon that he was lucky (the teens) did not wish to press charges."

8/23/18 2:22 PM
1/1/01
Posts: 44496

A Largo police officer was driving later that year when several people in another car pulled up to him on Highland Avenue to make a report.

A man in a black Toyota pickup had just threatened one of them with a gun, they said, pointing it out. They drove off, but the officer turned around to follow the truck on Dec. 13, 2012.

The driver of the Toyota pulled into a church parking lot before the officer could make a traffic stop. By the time the officer approached, Drejka already held his driver’s license and concealed carry permit in hand.

He said "he had not pointed a gun at the other car," according to a police report, and that the other people were lying, before the officer asked any questions.

Drejka had tucked a .40-caliber Glock between his seat and center console. He said he always kept it there while driving, according to the report. The officer asked him to step out of the truck and found a loose bullet near the gas pedal and a loaded magazine below the seat. Drejka wore a holster inside his shorts behind his right hip.

"I could still see the impression of the gun in his skin," the officer wrote.

Drejka told the officer he honked at the people in the other car but never showed them his gun. He said he did not think they were driving fast enough in a school zone, where the speed limit was 15 mph. The people in the other car, Drejka said, threw up their middle fingers as soon as he honked, and one of them had shouted at him.

The officer wrote that he asked what the man in the other car had said, and "Michael contorted his face while doing a gruff Spanish accent, saying ‘You got a gun in your truck, you got a gun in your truck.’"

The officer didn’t believe Drejka and said it would be strange for someone to shout about a gun if they hadn’t already seen it.

The officer wrote that there was "no doubt" Drejka pulled his gun. But the victims drove off, so the officer did not arrest him.

"I advised him his (concealed carry) permit did not give him the right to exhibit (a gun) because he was ‘flipped off’ for honking at someone," the officer wrote. "I told him a report would be taken and that if the victim was located he could face jail and the loss of his (concealed carry permit)."

8/23/18 2:22 PM
1/1/01
Posts: 44497

A Florida Highway Patrol trooper responded to a car crash at Alt. U.S. 19 and Pennsylvania Avenue less than a year later.

A woman in a Ford Edge had crashed into the back of Drejka’s pickup. She had two children, ages 4 and 7, in her vehicle, but no one was hurt.

The woman said she was turning and had pulled into the center lane, waiting for the truck to pass, but Drejka said he thought she had almost hit him. He "began to slam on his brakes," according to a crash report, "decreasing his speed quickly in an aggressive manner."

The woman smashed into the back of his truck shortly before 3 p.m. Nov. 13, 2013.

Drejka "admitted that he was ‘brake checking’" the woman, the trooper wrote. He was cited for stopping or making a sudden decrease in speed without signaling. The woman’s car had to be towed from the scene, according to the report, and the trooper estimated the damage at $8,000.

8/23/18 2:23 PM
1/1/01
Posts: 44498

A couple of months ago, Drejka was in the same parking lot outside the same Circle A Food Store at 1201 Sunset Point Road arguing over the same handicap-reserved space, according to a man who said Drejka threatened to shoot him.

Rick Kelly, 31, told the Tampa Bay Times that Drejka circled his tanker truck and confronted him about why he parked there.

Kelly asked why it mattered. He recalled that Drejka said his mom (whom records show died in 2007) is handicapped.

The argument escalated. Drejka yelled, Kelly said, and used a racial slur. Kelly is black. Drejka is white.

Drejka, he said, threatened to shoot him.

But the dispute didn’t end there.

Drejka called the Clearwater septic tank company Kelly works for to complain, telling owner John Tyler that he didn’t like the way Kelly had talked to him and that he was "lucky I didn’t blow his head off."

Tyler, a gun owner himself, told the Times he was shocked.

"I said, ‘I’m sorry you feel that way, that you feel that it’s justified to take someone’s life over a parking space,’" he said. "That was the chilling part about it when I found out who it was with the (McGlockton) situation."

8/23/18 2:27 PM
12/2/05
Posts: 74562
1000!
8/23/18 2:28 PM
12/2/05
Posts: 74563
Samoa - 

A couple of months ago, Drejka was in the same parking lot outside the same Circle A Food Store at 1201 Sunset Point Road arguing over the same handicap-reserved space, according to a man who said Drejka threatened to shoot him.

Rick Kelly, 31, told the Tampa Bay Times that Drejka circled his tanker truck and confronted him about why he parked there.

Kelly asked why it mattered. He recalled that Drejka said his mom (whom records show died in 2007) is handicapped.

The argument escalated. Drejka yelled, Kelly said, and used a racial slur. Kelly is black. Drejka is white.

Drejka, he said, threatened to shoot him.

But the dispute didn’t end there.

Drejka called the Clearwater septic tank company Kelly works for to complain, telling owner John Tyler that he didn’t like the way Kelly had talked to him and that he was "lucky I didn’t blow his head off."

Tyler, a gun owner himself, told the Times he was shocked.

"I said, ‘I’m sorry you feel that way, that you feel that it’s justified to take someone’s life over a parking space,’" he said. "That was the chilling part about it when I found out who it was with the (McGlockton) situation."


That's pretty telling. Likely not admissible though (but maybe).
8/23/18 2:31 PM
1/1/01
Posts: 44499

Legal experts said Drejka’s previous road rage incidents could come into play if he is charged, especially if his defense team were to argue stand your ground.

The statute applies when a person has reasonable fear for his life or serious injury. Shortly before the shooting, surveillance footage shows, McGlockton pushed Drejka to the ground as Drejka argued with McGlockton’s girlfriend about the handicap-reserved parking space.

Former Pinellas prosecutor Bill Loughery said the other dispute over parking at the store, and the two driving confrontations involving guns, could show Drejka "uses his gun in an unreasonable fashion."

"(If) he had a propensity to use or show his gun in unreasonable circumstances, that would definitely affect whether he behaved in a reasonable manner," Loughery said.

Bob Dekle, a former prosecutor and professor emeritus at the University of Florida, said prior cases are not always admissible, but prosecutors may argue Drejka’s history offers evidence about his mindset.

"If he wasn’t in fear," Dekle said, "self defense is not an issue and stand your ground is not an issue."

The state attorney, he said, could use the previous cases to try to prove the shooting was in fact "not a product of fear, but a product of anger."

8/23/18 2:41 PM
1/27/14
Posts: 5634

It’s pretty obvious he goes around looking for and trying to create confrontations which is the exact opposite of what you’re supposed to do when carrying but of course this guy was looking for an excuse to shoot someone 

8/23/18 2:46 PM
12/2/05
Posts: 74564
Average - 
Fake Pie -
Average -
pfsjkd -
OpenedUp - 
tourist -
pfsjkd - 
tourist - What do you think the actual potential for the shover to let it go would be? 50/50? What do you think the shover was saying to the shooter while he stood over him? I imagine it was some pretty terrifying stuff like "motherfucker you move and I'm a kill you". Maybe he was apologizing for over-reacting and assaulting him, but I doubt it.

On the surface of the legal situation, I think it was in keeping with florida law.

You can’t necessarily attack somebody because of their potential to harm you. There has to be facts you articulate to show that you were in imminent danger. A guy backing up after he pushed you doesn’t support a conclusion that you’re going to be imminently attacked even though he COULD easily attack you viscously given that you’re now on the ground and he’s not. 

All the videos you could show of people getting knocked to the ground and beaten have a bearing in that in all cases the attacker had to move *toward* the victim, unlike what this guy did to the shooter. 


Well, he had already been battered and likely scared shitless. I don't know what the conversation was, but he might have been backing up to get the perfect distance for a soccer kick to the head. Or he could have rushed the guy if he tried to get up off the ground. These are the thoughts the shooter was likely to have.

The big fact is that if he hadn't attacked the guy he would still be alive. If he hadn't illegally parked in the handicapped zone the dude wouldn't have given his wife shit and nothing at all would have happened.

There are lessons here for everyone.

Battered? 


Yes. Battered.

Words. They don't mean anything anymore, right? 

lol@battered. Learn the language. 

Battered just means touched without consent 

You are better than that Fake Pie. Don't all of a sudden become a google disabled person. But you knew it was wrong before you wrote it, if we're being honest. 

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/battered


I was giving the legal definition.

Battery
At common law, an intentional unpermitted act causing harmful or offensive contact with the "person" of another.
8/23/18 2:47 PM
12/2/05
Posts: 74565
By law, that was absolutely a battery, though they may have changed the wording in FL by statute (could be misdemeanor assault or something like that).
8/23/18 2:48 PM
12/2/05
Posts: 74566

Nope called battery in Florida as well:

784.03 Battery; felony battery.

(1)(a) The offense of battery occurs when a person:
1. Actually and intentionally touches or strikes another person against the will of the other; or
2. Intentionally causes bodily harm to another person.
(b) Except as provided in subsection (2), a person who commits battery commits a misdemeanor of the first degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082 or s. 775.083.
(2) A person who has one prior conviction for battery, aggravated battery, or felony battery and who commits any second or subsequent battery commits a felony of the third degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082, s. 775.083, or s. 775.084. For purposes of this subsection, “conviction” means a determination of guilt that is the result of a plea or a trial, regardless of whether adjudication is withheld or a plea of nolo contendere is entered.
8/23/18 2:49 PM
12/2/05
Posts: 74567
I'll take your apology any time. I don't mind being debated, I've been wrong plenty of times, but you just said I lied intentionally. Not only was I telling the truth, but I wasn't even wrong.
8/23/18 2:51 PM
9/13/16
Posts: 1006
OpenedUp - 

It’s pretty obvious he goes around looking for and trying to create confrontations which is the exact opposite of what you’re supposed to do when carrying but of course this guy was looking for an excuse to shoot someone 


this is a lot more common than gun people want you to believe.

if you're an asshole without a gun, you'll probably be an asshole with one too.