OtherGround Forums Florida Man Stands his Ground over Parking Dispute

7/20/18 12:43 PM
1/1/01
Posts: 8286

I support Stand Your Ground 100% but this guy started shit and should be charged with murder. He got pushed down and the guy immediately backed away. He didn’t deserve to die. 

7/20/18 12:44 PM
4/24/07
Posts: 35792
Samoa - 

Bitch made pussy ass mark. A CCW holder with his weapon provokes an issue over a parking spot and can’t get it from the shoulder so he shoots and kills a man. 

Don’t get into a confrontation with someone because they park in a handicapped spot. Especially don’t create a confrontation over a handicapped parking spot when you’re carrying your fuckin gun. 


Don't walk up and assault people.
Edited: 7/20/18 12:46 PM
11/5/03
Posts: 20119
holly9000 -
iclimb513 - 

Did the guy with the gun create a "stand your ground" situation to protect the life of a smaller woman? Such that another male felt compelled to protect her life?

Must the 3rd party male wait until she starts actually getting physically attacked first before intervention? I'm not a lawyer of course but isn't there language regarding "imminent threat" or some such? A bigger male in her personal space with aggressive speech and body language could be interpreted as such, no? 

Didn't actually watch the vid, btw. More of a legal thought experiment. 


You're not a lawyer AND you didn't watch the vid? Let me save you some time. The experiment failed.

You don't want to reason at that high a level or you can't switch gears even a little to think about permutations of the event? 

Oh, you said you're leaving now. Have a beautiful day!

7/20/18 12:46 PM
2/11/03
Posts: 38648
voodoo child - 

I support Stand Your Ground 100% but this guy started shit and should be charged with murder. He got pushed down and the guy immediately backed away. He didn’t deserve to die. 


This, some people are just garbage.
7/20/18 12:50 PM
4/24/07
Posts: 35793
Btw while I normally side with the shooter I don't think this was a good shoot. Two reasons. The law is "Stand Your Ground" not "shoot whenever you want". After CCW guy was assaulted the guy doing the assaulting doesn't keep approaching the CCW holder. Once the CCW holder pulls out his gun the assaulter takes a couple steps back and then the shot is fired.

Unless I understand "Stand your ground" incorrectly, I don't see how this is self defense. Had the assaulter kept going towards CCW holder then it would be a good shoot but I don't see that here after the initial shove.
7/20/18 12:53 PM
1/1/01
Posts: 7054
RenatoCocopreta - Push me like that and you'll be mozambiqued into the next life before my ass hits the ground. tap tap, TAP, say goodnight.

Really? I thought you were gangster? I also doubt you'd be running off at the mouth to some lady for her shitty choice in parking spots.
7/20/18 12:53 PM
7/15/02
Posts: 10267

I see an argument both ways, but I think the shooter needs to do time here. He got shoved, but he wasn’t in further danger. If you argue the pusher still posed a threat merely due to his proximity, then I think you also have to allow that the pusher was justified in his actions since the shooter was in close proximity to the lady and behaving in what was arguably a threatening manner. 

(I legally carry a gun daily, btw.)

7/20/18 12:54 PM
7/15/02
Posts: 10268
Bad Monkey -

There is no fucking way that is where the video ends.  It was cut short to either establish a narrative, or to edit out the man being shot.  I'll reserve judgement until the rest of the facts come out.  My opinion as it stand, if the dead guy was really backing off, CCW guy should be in jail.  If dead guy makes even the slightest move toward CCW guy, it's a good shoot.  

 

This is also a great example of the stupidity that can happen when assholes engage each other in the wild.

I think his is basically correct. If more video comes out showing the deceased moving toward the shooter, I’ll reverse course. 

7/20/18 12:56 PM
1/1/01
Posts: 8287

I’m CCW holder here in FL and this IS NOT was I was taught. 

7/20/18 12:57 PM
2/23/05
Posts: 11792
logic672 - 
holly9000 -
logic672 - 
holly9000 -
logic672 - 
holly9000 -
ChicagoTom - 
Never_rolled -
ChicagoTom -

The guy who shot the man is a pussy and I hope they throw the book at him. After working with disabled people for a long time- I’ve learned that just because someone looks fine- doesn’t mean they aren’t disabled. There are plenty of legit reasons a person is entitled to a handicap placard even if they look like they can walk or aren’t in a wheel chair. Second- the guy who got pushed life was not in danger. You can’t just shoot people because you get pushed or your ego is checked. 

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that's a shitty area and nobody had a disabled permit. I also believe the news would have brought that up if either of those parkers had a permit.

You could be right on both points. It could be a shitty area and they could be illegal parker’s. We don’t know so I guess it’s not worth arguing about. In my opinion though- you shouldn’t be able to end someone’s life because they push you. Now if the guy had a gun and was threatening to kill him or the husband was beating him up with no intention of stopping. 


It seems to me that by the time either one of those things would be happening it would, more likely than not, be far too late to effectively defend oneself.

That guy looked very big and pissed off (and pretty quick). He started the 'conversation' with a shove hard enough to throw the shooter right off his feet and send him flying backwards.

Am I missing something? How long should he have waited to draw?

Til his life was in danger?

The guy was like 10 feet away from him when he drew his gun, and not advancing on him whatsoever. 

He shot because he was pissed he got pushed. 


lol he was 10 feet away because he got PUSHED 10 feet onto his ass! wtf part of "the assault was underway" don't you understand?

Good luck surviving very long with those razor sharp instincts pal ;)

Thought experiment. If he had pushed the guy and immediately sat down, was the assault underway? What about if he had pushed the guy and then immediately took off running the other way, is the assault still underway? 


But he didn't do those things did he? The beautiful thing about video is you don't have to "what if" the situation. We can see exactly what happened. The guy didn't sit down. He didn't run away. He stood over his victim menacingly and never gave a thought to the prospect that the guy he was assaulting might defend himself. Too bad for him. Maybe he should have sat down. Or run away. Or not broken the law by assaulting the shooter in the first place?

Ahh, so the issue in question does indeed involve the pusher's actions AFTER the push, not the push itself, by your own admission. 

Therefore your comment about he "shouldn't have done something illegal"  while obviously true, is irrelevant. Because the real issue is what happened AFTER the push that determines whether it was a good shoot or not. 


Absolutely. And if he had dropped to his knees begging forgiveness I might feel differently. But to my eyes it looked as though the assault might not be over. If it looked that way to me I can only imagine how it felt to be that guy on the ground.

The imminent danger ONLY has to be in the mind of the victim-that's all folks. It doesn't matter whether or not he was 10 feet away or 2 inches away. If there's a reasonable belief that there was an assault in progress and his life or person was in danger he was within the law (in Florida)

To me it looked like he was within his legal rights to draw and shoot.
7/20/18 1:00 PM
6/29/09
Posts: 9407
they never learn....like fucking children
7/20/18 1:02 PM
3/19/04
Posts: 19037
yomamafool - so he was physically assaulted and used deadly force to protect himself instead of gambling on hand to hand combat?

what the problem is?

Maybe I’m wrong but to me it looks like after the shove (which never should have happened) the “attacker” was not following up and there was some space between them. I can maybe understand drawing but firing if the other guy doesn’t advance seems excessive.

7/20/18 1:03 PM
1/1/01
Posts: 7055
Isn't it a battery to shove someone and not assault?
7/20/18 1:05 PM
11/9/10
Posts: 62129
holly9000 - He won't be charged that was absolutely self defense and the guy was a legal carrier

He posed an immediate risk its clearly self defense. It’s not a stand your ground.

Edited: 7/20/18 1:10 PM
2/23/05
Posts: 11794
Piyo - 
Bad Monkey -

There is no fucking way that is where the video ends.  It was cut short to either establish a narrative, or to edit out the man being shot.  I'll reserve judgement until the rest of the facts come out.  My opinion as it stand, if the dead guy was really backing off, CCW guy should be in jail.  If dead guy makes even the slightest move toward CCW guy, it's a good shoot.  

 

This is also a great example of the stupidity that can happen when assholes engage each other in the wild.

I think his is basically correct. If more video comes out showing the deceased moving toward the shooter, I’ll reverse course. 


So after someone assaults me I should we wait to see if he's serious or just posturing? That happened pretty fast. Knockdown, draw, fire.

Do we have some sort of timetable we should follow before we stop a threat to our personal safety? Wait a few minutes maybe? Give the huge crazy a guy a moment to reflect on what he's doing...maybe he'll realize he's being a real jerk and will stop beating me!

You do understand that there's comes a time when it's too late right? You really, genuinely believe that you'll know when that is if, God forbid, you're ever in this situation? I hope so! As for me I'm going with shoot first and ask questions later. It seems to work for the LEO's and as long as I'm in Florida it's legal as whacking off in the shower

Edited: 7/20/18 1:10 PM
2/12/17
Posts: 2725
Dont think that shot was justified as the guy pushed him, then backed away. If he approached him again given the immediate history of willing to resort to violence, I would be perfectly ok with that shot.
7/20/18 1:12 PM
1/1/01
Posts: 96011
mestregruber -

I bet that guy won't park in a handicapped space illegally again.

Since he's dead, probably not

7/20/18 1:12 PM
2/12/17
Posts: 2726
holly9000 - 
Piyo - 
Bad Monkey -

There is no fucking way that is where the video ends.  It was cut short to either establish a narrative, or to edit out the man being shot.  I'll reserve judgement until the rest of the facts come out.  My opinion as it stand, if the dead guy was really backing off, CCW guy should be in jail.  If dead guy makes even the slightest move toward CCW guy, it's a good shoot.  

 

This is also a great example of the stupidity that can happen when assholes engage each other in the wild.

I think his is basically correct. If more video comes out showing the deceased moving toward the shooter, I’ll reverse course. 


So after someone assaults me I should we wait to see if he's serious or just posturing? That happened pretty fast. Knockdown, draw, fire.

Do we have some sort of timetable we should follow before we stop a threat to our personal safety? Wait a few minutes maybe? Give the huge crazy a guy a moment to reflect on what he's doing...maybe he'll realize he's being a real jerk and will stop beating me!

You do understand that there's comes a time when it's too late right? You really, genuinely believe that you'll know when that is if, God forbid, you're ever in this situation? I hope so! As for me I'm going with shoot first and ask questions later. It seems to work for the LEO's and as long as I'm in Florida it's legal as whacking off in the shower


I would typically agree, but it didnt seem that fast. It seemed like he pushed him then walked backwards.

By no means was that asshole in the right for pushing the guy, but it didnt seem like a quick situation where the recourse for using a gun was warranted.

But if the law allows it? Cool.

I just wonder where the line is drawn in situations like this. Say some kid pushes your kid, are you allowed to shoot that kid in the face rather than try to stop him?
7/20/18 1:20 PM
7/15/02
Posts: 10269
holly9000 -
Piyo - 
Bad Monkey -

There is no fucking way that is where the video ends.  It was cut short to either establish a narrative, or to edit out the man being shot.  I'll reserve judgement until the rest of the facts come out.  My opinion as it stand, if the dead guy was really backing off, CCW guy should be in jail.  If dead guy makes even the slightest move toward CCW guy, it's a good shoot.  

 

This is also a great example of the stupidity that can happen when assholes engage each other in the wild.

I think his is basically correct. If more video comes out showing the deceased moving toward the shooter, I’ll reverse course. 


So after someone assaults me I should we wait to see if he's serious or just posturing? That happened pretty fast. Knockdown, draw, fire.

Do we have some sort of timetable we should follow before we stop a threat to our personal safety? Wait a few minutes maybe? Give the huge crazy a guy a moment to reflect on what he's doing...maybe he'll realize he's being a real jerk and will stop beating me!

You do understand that there's comes a time when it's too late right? You really, genuinely believe that you'll know when that is if, God forbid, you're ever in this situation? I hope so! As for me I'm going with shoot first and ask questions later. It seems to work for the LEO's and as long as I'm in Florida it's legal as whacking off in the shower

Yes, we do have a timetable/criterion, which is this: if I wait longer, will it be too late to take action? From the video that has been shown, I think the answe was no. He was certainly justified in pulling his gun, but once he did that the other guy was too far out of range to “get the jump” on the shooter. If the pusher had been within a yard or had been running already, or if there had been a second person so that waiting for one to advance would eliminate the needed time to pivot and draw a bead on the other, then I would say the shoot was 100% good. 

 

Here, though, he already had his gun out. The deceased guy would’ve had to easily outrun just the shooter’s trigger finger. 

7/20/18 1:23 PM
3/19/04
Posts: 19038
KAG -

Tough one.  I wouldn't have shot, but I also wouldn't give the guy jail time for shooting if I were the judge

You don't REALLY know the guy that pushed you wasn't about to draw a gun and end you.  All you know is he's a crazy violent man that just sat you down for no sane reason.  I can see about 50% of cops shooting you if you did that to them

Yeah, but cops are fucking crazy. That’s not a helpful standard: )

7/20/18 1:24 PM
1/30/10
Posts: 4261

That is sad , guy was just going about his day , stopped to buy some stuff at grocery store , walks out and makes the stupid mistake to assault the guy, just like that, his life is over ....doesn’t get to see his wife , kids and family again ....terrible ....

7/20/18 1:24 PM
1/1/01
Posts: 14012
Eggbert -

People need to stop acting like assholes and theybwont get shot 

An armed society is a polite society.

7/20/18 1:24 PM
1/1/01
Posts: 14013
dios -

That is sad , guy was just going about his day , stopped to buy some stuff at grocery store , walks out and makes the stupid mistake to assault the guy, just like that, his life is over ....doesn’t get to see his wife , kids and family again ....terrible ....

LOL we found the beta bitch!

7/20/18 1:25 PM
2/2/15
Posts: 5485
Samoa -
BJ Penn Forever - Honestly both dudes were out of line, normal people don't approach strangers about parking in handicapped spots, normal people don't push people to the ground who are bitching about parking in the spot and normal people damn sure don't commit murder after being pushed.

Absolutely. Both are idiots. I still see a man who knew he was armed antagonizing an issue that he didn’t need to.  He created the situation. 

I'm with Samoa on this. If you're carrying you have a moral obligation to avoid situations that could lead to this, not inject yourself into a situation that could turn volatile. I'd be shocked if this guy isn't a pussy that felt like a big man because of his weapon, hence pulling the gun and shooting over getting pushed, which is grade school level violence.

7/20/18 1:28 PM
3/13/02
Posts: 8951
holly9000 -
FloridaStriker - 

Also, guarentee these were not actual floridians. They came from out of state


Why because most Floridians are too broke to afford to shop at a high class establishment like 7-11?

You seem upset

 

 

 

 

 

Lol