OtherGround Forums Former Nazi concentration camp guard, 93, on trial

24 days ago
12/30/12
Posts: 17802

https://www.foxnews.com/world/nazi-concentration-camp-guard-93-germany-trial-bruno-dey-5230-accessory-murder

A 93-year-old former SS private, who as a teenager stood guard in a watchtower in a Nazi Germany concentration camp, began trial Thursday in Hamburg state court where he’s accused of being an accessory to 5,230 murders in the finals months of World War II.

Bruno Dey was in his late teens when he worked at the Stutthof concentration camp more than seven decades ago outside of Danzig, which is now the city of Gdansk in Poland.

Prosecutors argue that while Dey was not directly involved in a killing in Stutthof, he was a "small wheel in the machinery of murder" committed during his time as a guard from August 1944 to April 1945 given he actively stopped inmates from escaping the camp, which was one of the last to be liberated. 

Dey also allegedly told investigators he could hear the screams of Jews dying in the gas chambers below his watchtower and witnessed the daily carting off of their dead bodies to the camp’s crematorium. His attorney, Stefan Waterkamp, questioned why his client was being prosecuted now, saying that before a recent change in German legal reasoning, "nobody was interested in the simple guards."

"Where does responsibility end?" he asked the court in his opening statement. "That is the question this trial must answer."

In recent years, prosecutors have successfully convicted former death camp guards using the argument that by helping to operate camps like Auschwitz and Sobibor, they were accessories to the murders there. The 2015 conviction of former Auschwitz guard Oskar Groening on such reasoning was upheld by a German federal court, solidifying the precedent.

Prosecutor Lars Mahnke detailed how tens of thousands of people, mostly Jews, were gassed, shot and starved to death as part of the "systematic killing" carried out during Stutthof’s six years of operation. Stutthof was established by Nazi Germany in 1939 east of Danzig and was used as the main collection point for Jews and non-Jewish Poles removed from the city. In Dey's case, the reasoning is being applied to a concentration camp rather than a death camp given the site's sole purpose wasn't murder.

"The accused was no ardent worshipper of Nazi ideology," prosecutors argue in the indictment. "But there is also no doubt that he never actively challenged the persecutions of the Nazi regime."

Even in concentration camps, "it was almost a certain death sentence," said Efraim Zuroff, the head Nazi hunter at the Simon Wiesenthal Center in Jerusalem who attended the opening of the trial. Zuroff, who helped locate nearly two dozen Stutthof survivors for the case, rejected Waterkamp's suggestion that Dey should not be prosecuted because higher-ranking Nazis were never brought to trial.

"Just because more senior criminals got away with a crime doesn't mean that the more minor criminals are not guilty," Zuroff said.

Because Dey was 17 when he started serving at the camp, he is being tried in juvenile court and faces a possible six months to 10 years in prison if convicted. Dey himself told prosecutors his SS comrades talked of the "extermination of the Jews" and said he had "done people wrong" by serving there.

"I did not know why they were there," Dey told prosecutors. "I knew well that they were Jews who had committed no crime, that they were only there because they were Jews. And they have the same right to live and to work like any other person. But it was just that Hitler or his party ... had something against the Jews."

 

 

24 days ago
1/1/01
Posts: 26903
"Because Dey was 17 when he started serving at the camp, he is being tried in juvenile court and faces a possible six months to 10 years in prison if convicted. Dey himself told prosecutors his SS comrades talked of the "extermination of the Jews" and said he had "done people wrong" by serving there.

"I did not know why they were there," Dey told prosecutors. "I knew well that they were Jews who had committed no crime, that they were only there because they were Jews. And they have the same right to live and to work like any other person. But it was just that Hitler or his party ... had something against the Jews."



Don't know what options a 17 year old kid had in that situation.

24 days ago
10/19/19
Posts: 4

I hate Nazis, but this is a little crazy 

24 days ago
5/22/05
Posts: 23897

I dont have a problem with taking a strict line on this shit. Too bad its decades too late.

24 days ago
3/15/15
Posts: 12343
Good, fuck that Nazi trash. Let's hope he can suffer alone in solitary and then die.
24 days ago
3/13/17
Posts: 8394
billyball2 - "Because Dey was 17 when he started serving at the camp, he is being tried in juvenile court and faces a possible six months to 10 years in prison if convicted. Dey himself told prosecutors his SS comrades talked of the "extermination of the Jews" and said he had "done people wrong" by serving there.

"I did not know why they were there," Dey told prosecutors. "I knew well that they were Jews who had committed no crime, that they were only there because they were Jews. And they have the same right to live and to work like any other person. But it was just that Hitler or his party ... had something against the Jews."



Don't know what options a 17 year old kid had in that situation.


I'm sure there were other options than being complicit in genocide.

Fuck that scumbag nazi. Shoulda been locked up a LONG time ago.

 

"Dey also allegedly told investigators he could hear the screams of Jews dying in the gas chambers below his watchtower and witnessed the daily carting off of their dead bodies to the camp’s crematorium. "

24 days ago
8/9/16
Posts: 22501

Crazy...

24 days ago
4/19/09
Posts: 32814
Pedro Navaja - 
billyball2 - "Because Dey was 17 when he started serving at the camp, he is being tried in juvenile court and faces a possible six months to 10 years in prison if convicted. Dey himself told prosecutors his SS comrades talked of the "extermination of the Jews" and said he had "done people wrong" by serving there.

"I did not know why they were there," Dey told prosecutors. "I knew well that they were Jews who had committed no crime, that they were only there because they were Jews. And they have the same right to live and to work like any other person. But it was just that Hitler or his party ... had something against the Jews."



Don't know what options a 17 year old kid had in that situation.


I'm sure there were other options than being complicit in genocide.

Fuck that scumbag nazi. Shoulda been locked up a LONG time ago.

 

"Dey also allegedly told investigators he could hear the screams of Jews dying in the gas chambers below his watchtower and witnessed the daily carting off of their dead bodies to the camp’s crematorium. "


Hes complicit in a war crimes.
There are guys in the US military, who, if America were not the most powerful nation int eh world would be complicit in war crimes, collective punishment, DU, WilliePete, Civillian casualties and rapes.
24 days ago
8/9/12
Posts: 4114

If he objected to it or refused his duties, wouldn’t he of been sentenced to death? Or am I mistaken with that?

24 days ago
9/8/10
Posts: 14363

Quick, arrest some elderly nazis to distract people from all the anti-semites we’re importing!!

24 days ago
12/30/12
Posts: 17803
billyball2 - "Because Dey was 17 when he started serving at the camp, he is being tried in juvenile court and faces a possible six months to 10 years in prison if convicted. Dey himself told prosecutors his SS comrades talked of the "extermination of the Jews" and said he had "done people wrong" by serving there.

"I did not know why they were there," Dey told prosecutors. "I knew well that they were Jews who had committed no crime, that they were only there because they were Jews. And they have the same right to live and to work like any other person. But it was just that Hitler or his party ... had something against the Jews."



Don't know what options a 17 year old kid had in that situation.

Concentration camp guards were a voluntary position. You could be transferred if you wanted to as well.

24 days ago
12/30/12
Posts: 17804
Cherrycola -

If he objected to it or refused his duties, wouldn’t he of been sentenced to death? Or am I mistaken with that?

Absolutely not. You would not be killed if you refused to take part in mass killings. At the worst you would maybe receive a slap on the wrist.

24 days ago
3/17/03
Posts: 16753
I feel pretty weird about this one. What exactly is the point of the trial?

The vast majority of us in the same position would do the same thing at 17.
24 days ago
8/11/12
Posts: 9966
Stern -
Cherrycola -

If he objected to it or refused his duties, wouldn’t he of been sentenced to death? Or am I mistaken with that?

Absolutely not. You would not be killed if you refused to take part in mass killings. At the worst you would maybe receive a slap on the wrist.

Yitzhak?

24 days ago
5/21/12
Posts: 4761

It's awful easy for a bunch of keyboard warriors to pass judgement on what this 93 year old should have done 76 years ago. 

I'm not excusing his actions. I'm just saying that hind sight is always 20/20 and I'm glad that I wasn't put in his situation as a young man in Nazi Germany.

24 days ago
7/24/16
Posts: 5345
Ghengiseanie -
Pedro Navaja - 
billyball2 - "Because Dey was 17 when he started serving at the camp, he is being tried in juvenile court and faces a possible six months to 10 years in prison if convicted. Dey himself told prosecutors his SS comrades talked of the "extermination of the Jews" and said he had "done people wrong" by serving there.

"I did not know why they were there," Dey told prosecutors. "I knew well that they were Jews who had committed no crime, that they were only there because they were Jews. And they have the same right to live and to work like any other person. But it was just that Hitler or his party ... had something against the Jews."



Don't know what options a 17 year old kid had in that situation.


I'm sure there were other options than being complicit in genocide.

Fuck that scumbag nazi. Shoulda been locked up a LONG time ago.

 

"Dey also allegedly told investigators he could hear the screams of Jews dying in the gas chambers below his watchtower and witnessed the daily carting off of their dead bodies to the camp’s crematorium. "


Hes complicit in a war crimes.
There are guys in the US military, who, if America were not the most powerful nation int eh world would be complicit in war crimes, collective punishment, DU, WilliePete, Civillian casualties and rapes.

Would you two like a minute alone? The rest of us can step outside while you suck each other off.

24 days ago
5/21/12
Posts: 4762
Stern -
Cherrycola -

If he objected to it or refused his duties, wouldn’t he of been sentenced to death? Or am I mistaken with that?

Absolutely not. You would not be killed if you refused to take part in mass killings. At the worst you would maybe receive a slap on the wrist.

That's bullshit. There isn't enough documentation to say one way or the other. 

24 days ago
12/30/12
Posts: 17805
Onikage - I feel pretty weird about this one. What exactly is the point of the trial?

The vast majority of us in the same position would do the same thing at 17.

He participated in the holocaust that’s the point.

24 days ago
8/29/19
Posts: 240

He's literally Trump

24 days ago
1/1/01
Posts: 9453
are these the kind of nazis that were german soldiers, or the bad kind of nazis that only recognize 60 of the 72 genders?
24 days ago
11/25/09
Posts: 1670

If this were a 17 year old ISIS member would it change your perspective?

24 days ago
1/1/01
Posts: 54870

He shouldn't be in any courtroom but I would've killed myself long ago.

24 days ago
3/17/03
Posts: 16754
Stern - 
Onikage - I feel pretty weird about this one. What exactly is the point of the trial?

The vast majority of us in the same position would do the same thing at 17.

He participated in the holocaust that’s the point.


He didn't kill anyone.

Is the message "war criminals are never forgiven"?
I really don't get it.

War is terrible. I'm not convinced a teenager should be convicted for guarding an area where horrible things took place.

Would you say George Soros participated in the holocaust? Should he be charged?
Edited: 24 days ago
11/9/10
Posts: 68325

He was 11 or so when WW2 started. He had been told for most of his life including all of his adolescence that Jews were evil and the enemy of Germany. Hard for any of us to say we wouldn’t find ourselves in that situation if we were young Germans at that time. 

24 days ago
12/6/14
Posts: 1555
roxa star -

If this were a 17 year old ISIS member would it change your perspective?

Well he isn't 17. He was 17 seven decades ago.