OtherGround Forums Hezbollah getting precision guided missiles:Uh Oh

9/12/19 12:02 AM
1/1/01
Posts: 46588
anthonyMI -

A lot of the time errors come from quote trees filling up the character limit, so you can avoid them by not quoting. If I make an especially long post I'll just copy it in case the forum's dogshhit software eats it the first time.

"WHAT SORT OF HORSESHIT IS THAT? Sure, the turks went through all the trouble of instituting NEW land laws and OWNERSHIP rights, because it meant fucking nothing, and squatters have all rights. Do yo even fucking hear yourself? 100% convinced you're a fucking troll at this point. Feudal governments saying who's ever living somewhere has the right to live there? WHAT?!?!?!!??!  Yeah, because during kings NEVER confiscated land and took every possesion someone had because they didnt pay their taxes, or feel out of royal favor, or any one of a thousand things.  hold shit, go study medieval England"

Not squatters, residents. You are still projecting your own values onto people living in a foreign culture in a different time. The traditional understanding of land ownership was that the village as a whole had the rights to the use of its lands. Who specifically lived on or tended a specific plot of land was an internal matter that the government didn't much care about. The Tanzimat Land Reform's main job was to streamline all of the complicated decrees, grants, etc. into a modern legal code. In most cases, it didn't change how people actually lived their lives, though there was of course plenty of corruption and fuckery that took place during the changeover. Ownership of the land mostly just meant the right to collect rents.

If an English king started arbitrarily seizing lands, he would end of with a rebellion due to acting arbitrarily and unlawfully. European feudalism was made up of many different types of peasantry depending of where and when you are talking about, but the most common type of serfdom was that they were completely bound to the land. That went both ways. They could not leave the land, but a lord could also not sell the serf to someone else apart from the land. Doing it any other way wouldn't make sense, you need people to actually work that land and Count Dipshit wasn't about to toil in the fields himself.

That isn't exactly how it worked in Palestine, but you get the idea. The Zionists reshaped that system because their whole purpose was to toil in the fields themselves. Where a new landlord in the times before that meant you just owed money to someone else, now it meant somebody else was coming in to take your places. Leading to internal  migration to places like the slums of Haifa.

But, again, no, not all the land was owned by absentee Turks. A lot of it was. A lot of it wasn't. For example, a lot of the land west of Jerusalem was owned by the Abu Ghosh clan. The Abu Ghosh were based out of the town of, shockingly, Abu Ghosh. Famous for its hummus.

As for the rest of that post, I don't know why you think doing the text equivalent of screaming like a madman makes you look like the reasonable one.

Not squatters, residents. You are still projecting your own values onto people living in a foreign culture in a different time. The traditional understanding of land ownership was that the village as a whole had the rights to the use of its lands.

 

And a squatter isnt a resident? yeah, ok. No, I understand and know FULL WELL how it work. It may have worked one way under turkish rule, but that meant fuck all once israel became a country. Torries enjoyed a wonderful life under british rule, but when we gained our independance, we dealt with loyalists, Legal ownership actually means something, no matter how much you "claim" it didnt. The difference here is I have facts and history on my side. The FACT is turks took advantage, became LEGAL land owners had LEGAL rights to the land and the squatters aka people who  may have lived there for generations with no legal claim to the land or their home had legal fuck all to say when land was sold, or seized FROM THE TURKISH OWNER. palestinians may not have cared their were laws about ownership, but israel sure as shit did.,

If an English king started arbitrarily seizing lands, he would end of with a rebellion due to acting arbitrarily and unlawfully.

aye aye aye aye aye. More shit you're pulling out of your ass. You dont know shit about shit. Unlawfully? He was the law! He made the law. Actually try learning some shit about it.
Ever hear of William the Conqueror? what happen to all the saxon nobles lands and titles?
How about nobles who revolted and were beaten or who backed the losing side in a coup attempt. Did they get to keep their lands and titles or their fucking lives? How about a noble who failed to pay his tax bill ? you think the king said fuck it, i was seize your assets as payment of your debt? How do you think the monarchary became the largest land owner in britain? jesus. how is this even a question?????????

There were tons of rebellions when nobles thought the king had gone to far. the magna carter was supposed to limit powers, but most said fuck it and did what they wanted anyway. shit even cromwell did what the fuck he wanted

A lot of it was. A lot of it wasn't.
the link i proved breaks down exactly who owned what.

I don't know why you think doing the text equivalent of screaming ...

because you're a condescending dick, and you're trying to belittle me by insinuating i dont know shit and I'm just copying and pasting radom shit you're dismissive of, when in fact, you're whole holy than thou and smarter than thou act is bullshit, and irrespective of you  proclaiming your intellectual superiority, and infalliblity, it is I in FACT, that am correct in almost, everything I've posted. I believe i was mistaken twice on the entire thread

9/12/19 4:57 AM
11/28/08
Posts: 21450
D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F. -
anthonyMI -
D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F. -
anthonyMI -
blood fist -
anthonyMI - 

Genghis confused the Jordan Valley with the Kingdom of Jordan.

I don't know how serious Bibi is with this. Usually his right-wing song and dance before elections is kept vague so he can't really be called a liar. The Jordan Valley annexation is much more specific and pointed. It sounds more believable.

The stuff about annexing all settlements was bundled with a way to get out of it. The Trump Peace Plan, or the lack of one.

 

Anthony, what would your reaction be if Israel annexed the Jordan Valley? And what do you think the world's reaction would be?

It is rough. I always have it in the back of my mind that I'll move back to Israel and even get my citizenship. If all of the settlements are annexed, that is game over for that idea. Israel will have become an Apartheid State and the Zionist dream will be dead. The best case scenario would be to have the inevitable crisis result in a bi-national state instead of something worse. Salvage what can be salvaged. Give me Yavne and it's scholars.

I don't think the Jordan Valley annexation is quite beyond me red lines. I'd be pissed, but it would still be salvageable. The Jordan Valley is agricultural, but not many people live there. Most of that land area is already on lock down as military-use. It dicks over the Palestinians and makes peace even more difficult than before, but it is land that is prime for being swapped while allowing Israel to maintain some kind of presence on the Jordanian border.

As for the world, I don't know but it won't be good.

derp.. typica jew hating trope "Apartheid State". No, it wouldnt. Israel not only has miles to go to have the same laws as "Apartheid", and, Apartheid was specfically the law set of SA. Even if tey had the exact same laws, it wouldnt be Apartheid.

For now. The full annexation of the settlement blocs, which would make a third of the population of the State into non-citizen resident aliens without any possibility of citizenship and few rights, living in discreet pockets of essentially bantustans with no guarantee of freedom of movement between them. That action would cover those miles. You can make up another word for it if Apartheid is too specific. Hafrada is the closest to it, but doesn't feel strong enough.

I am skeptical that Bibi would follow through with that promise, though. He isn't that crazy. I don't think.

being a democracy, and having a actual court that doesnt necessarily side with the government, i could see a lawsuit, if it didnt happen immediately, if israel did annex any terrority, i could see them becoming citizens, just like every arab was given the oppertunity to become a full israeli citizen when they became a state. The arabs living in the Golan when annex were offered citizenship. And take guess. Did they accept the offer?

its funny, how YOU and EVERY anti jew calls israel apartheid inits current form. the ara members of the kneset hd the never to call israel it when the nation state law as passed  . they are members of the government, duely elected and serving. there are specific governmental agency completely run by arabs for arabs, yet they say apartheid because israel DARE establish a national langue that isnt theirs. israeli citizens with every right a jew has. And you have the never to use the term too. Why not just them filthy vermin and be done with it

you know, palestinians have no one to blame but themselves. when israel was formed, their were 85k in gaza. theres 2.5 million today. Conditions were so horrible, they decided to have 20 kids each, just so they can suffer more. he's a fucking idea, how about you move the fuck out and better your life? Oh, wait, everywhere they went, they were so horrible to the host nation, they were kicked out. Given a home in Jordan, and they repay the kindness by trying to overthrow the government. Cry me a river.

Not once did I say that Israel is currently an apartheid state. You just keep on keeping on with that hardline black and white thinking. Everyone who disagrees with you is just some Jew-hater. If Israel annexes all of the settlements like Bibi said he would do, then it would become one.

Granting the West Bank Palestinians citizenship would be one fix. It would mean Netanyahu would never be Prime Minister ever again, though. And staying in power is the one guiding principle that he follows, so it would never happen.

9/12/19 5:20 AM
11/28/08
Posts: 21451
D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F. -
anthonyMI -

A lot of the time errors come from quote trees filling up the character limit, so you can avoid them by not quoting. If I make an especially long post I'll just copy it in case the forum's dogshhit software eats it the first time.

"WHAT SORT OF HORSESHIT IS THAT? Sure, the turks went through all the trouble of instituting NEW land laws and OWNERSHIP rights, because it meant fucking nothing, and squatters have all rights. Do yo even fucking hear yourself? 100% convinced you're a fucking troll at this point. Feudal governments saying who's ever living somewhere has the right to live there? WHAT?!?!?!!??!  Yeah, because during kings NEVER confiscated land and took every possesion someone had because they didnt pay their taxes, or feel out of royal favor, or any one of a thousand things.  hold shit, go study medieval England"

Not squatters, residents. You are still projecting your own values onto people living in a foreign culture in a different time. The traditional understanding of land ownership was that the village as a whole had the rights to the use of its lands. Who specifically lived on or tended a specific plot of land was an internal matter that the government didn't much care about. The Tanzimat Land Reform's main job was to streamline all of the complicated decrees, grants, etc. into a modern legal code. In most cases, it didn't change how people actually lived their lives, though there was of course plenty of corruption and fuckery that took place during the changeover. Ownership of the land mostly just meant the right to collect rents.

If an English king started arbitrarily seizing lands, he would end of with a rebellion due to acting arbitrarily and unlawfully. European feudalism was made up of many different types of peasantry depending of where and when you are talking about, but the most common type of serfdom was that they were completely bound to the land. That went both ways. They could not leave the land, but a lord could also not sell the serf to someone else apart from the land. Doing it any other way wouldn't make sense, you need people to actually work that land and Count Dipshit wasn't about to toil in the fields himself.

That isn't exactly how it worked in Palestine, but you get the idea. The Zionists reshaped that system because their whole purpose was to toil in the fields themselves. Where a new landlord in the times before that meant you just owed money to someone else, now it meant somebody else was coming in to take your places. Leading to internal  migration to places like the slums of Haifa.

But, again, no, not all the land was owned by absentee Turks. A lot of it was. A lot of it wasn't. For example, a lot of the land west of Jerusalem was owned by the Abu Ghosh clan. The Abu Ghosh were based out of the town of, shockingly, Abu Ghosh. Famous for its hummus.

As for the rest of that post, I don't know why you think doing the text equivalent of screaming like a madman makes you look like the reasonable one.

Not squatters, residents. You are still projecting your own values onto people living in a foreign culture in a different time. The traditional understanding of land ownership was that the village as a whole had the rights to the use of its lands.

 

And a squatter isnt a resident? yeah, ok. No, I understand and know FULL WELL how it work. It may have worked one way under turkish rule, but that meant fuck all once israel became a country. Torries enjoyed a wonderful life under british rule, but when we gained our independance, we dealt with loyalists, Legal ownership actually means something, no matter how much you "claim" it didnt. The difference here is I have facts and history on my side. The FACT is turks took advantage, became LEGAL land owners had LEGAL rights to the land and the squatters aka people who  may have lived there for generations with no legal claim to the land or their home had legal fuck all to say when land was sold, or seized FROM THE TURKISH OWNER. palestinians may not have cared their were laws about ownership, but israel sure as shit did.,

If an English king started arbitrarily seizing lands, he would end of with a rebellion due to acting arbitrarily and unlawfully.

aye aye aye aye aye. More shit you're pulling out of your ass. You dont know shit about shit. Unlawfully? He was the law! He made the law. Actually try learning some shit about it.
Ever hear of William the Conqueror? what happen to all the saxon nobles lands and titles?
How about nobles who revolted and were beaten or who backed the losing side in a coup attempt. Did they get to keep their lands and titles or their fucking lives? How about a noble who failed to pay his tax bill ? you think the king said fuck it, i was seize your assets as payment of your debt? How do you think the monarchary became the largest land owner in britain? jesus. how is this even a question?????????

There were tons of rebellions when nobles thought the king had gone to far. the magna carter was supposed to limit powers, but most said fuck it and did what they wanted anyway. shit even cromwell did what the fuck he wanted

A lot of it was. A lot of it wasn't.
the link i proved breaks down exactly who owned what.

I don't know why you think doing the text equivalent of screaming ...

because you're a condescending dick, and you're trying to belittle me by insinuating i dont know shit and I'm just copying and pasting radom shit you're dismissive of, when in fact, you're whole holy than thou and smarter than thou act is bullshit, and irrespective of you  proclaiming your intellectual superiority, and infalliblity, it is I in FACT, that am correct in almost, everything I've posted. I believe i was mistaken twice on the entire thread

Your argument has devolved into "tyrannical lords who abuse their legal obligations are good, actually. The strong do what they like and the weak suffer what they must." Following your logic, there is no way to condemn things like Soviet forced collectivization as a bad thing. They were, after all, in charge.

Most of the loyalists remained in the newly formed US, but the way. And many of the ones who fled were able to successfully sue for restitution. I thought you were just wedded to the idea of American capitalist land ownership, but you seem to just honestly think that winners in a conflict can do whatever they like to the losers. With feudalism, a lord was allowed to strip a rebellious vassal of land because those were the terms of the relationship. Land in exchange for service and loyalty. A king who stripped lands from lords who were following their contracts was acting illegally.

Yes, I already said that Zionist land purchases changed how land was treated. They were socialist laborers, not fuedal lords. And you seem to be under the impression that 100% of the present state of Israel was purchased from absentee Turkish landlords. A narrow strip along the coastal plain, the Jezreel Valley, and around the coast of the Kinneret were purchased from landowners, either absentee Turks or locals Palestinians. These are the places where Israeli, particularly Israeli Jews, mostly live. But, geographically, it doesn't account for most of Israel.

If you think you understand current Israeli land ownership laws, you are wrong. It is ridiculously complicated.

9/12/19 9:49 AM
1/1/01
Posts: 46589
anthonyMI -
D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F. -
anthonyMI -
D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F. -
anthonyMI -
blood fist -
anthonyMI - 

Genghis confused the Jordan Valley with the Kingdom of Jordan.

I don't know how serious Bibi is with this. Usually his right-wing song and dance before elections is kept vague so he can't really be called a liar. The Jordan Valley annexation is much more specific and pointed. It sounds more believable.

The stuff about annexing all settlements was bundled with a way to get out of it. The Trump Peace Plan, or the lack of one.

 

Anthony, what would your reaction be if Israel annexed the Jordan Valley? And what do you think the world's reaction would be?

It is rough. I always have it in the back of my mind that I'll move back to Israel and even get my citizenship. If all of the settlements are annexed, that is game over for that idea. Israel will have become an Apartheid State and the Zionist dream will be dead. The best case scenario would be to have the inevitable crisis result in a bi-national state instead of something worse. Salvage what can be salvaged. Give me Yavne and it's scholars.

I don't think the Jordan Valley annexation is quite beyond me red lines. I'd be pissed, but it would still be salvageable. The Jordan Valley is agricultural, but not many people live there. Most of that land area is already on lock down as military-use. It dicks over the Palestinians and makes peace even more difficult than before, but it is land that is prime for being swapped while allowing Israel to maintain some kind of presence on the Jordanian border.

As for the world, I don't know but it won't be good.

derp.. typica jew hating trope "Apartheid State". No, it wouldnt. Israel not only has miles to go to have the same laws as "Apartheid", and, Apartheid was specfically the law set of SA. Even if tey had the exact same laws, it wouldnt be Apartheid.

For now. The full annexation of the settlement blocs, which would make a third of the population of the State into non-citizen resident aliens without any possibility of citizenship and few rights, living in discreet pockets of essentially bantustans with no guarantee of freedom of movement between them. That action would cover those miles. You can make up another word for it if Apartheid is too specific. Hafrada is the closest to it, but doesn't feel strong enough.

I am skeptical that Bibi would follow through with that promise, though. He isn't that crazy. I don't think.

being a democracy, and having a actual court that doesnt necessarily side with the government, i could see a lawsuit, if it didnt happen immediately, if israel did annex any terrority, i could see them becoming citizens, just like every arab was given the oppertunity to become a full israeli citizen when they became a state. The arabs living in the Golan when annex were offered citizenship. And take guess. Did they accept the offer?

its funny, how YOU and EVERY anti jew calls israel apartheid inits current form. the ara members of the kneset hd the never to call israel it when the nation state law as passed  . they are members of the government, duely elected and serving. there are specific governmental agency completely run by arabs for arabs, yet they say apartheid because israel DARE establish a national langue that isnt theirs. israeli citizens with every right a jew has. And you have the never to use the term too. Why not just them filthy vermin and be done with it

you know, palestinians have no one to blame but themselves. when israel was formed, their were 85k in gaza. theres 2.5 million today. Conditions were so horrible, they decided to have 20 kids each, just so they can suffer more. he's a fucking idea, how about you move the fuck out and better your life? Oh, wait, everywhere they went, they were so horrible to the host nation, they were kicked out. Given a home in Jordan, and they repay the kindness by trying to overthrow the government. Cry me a river.

Not once did I say that Israel is currently an apartheid state. You just keep on keeping on with that hardline black and white thinking. Everyone who disagrees with you is just some Jew-hater. If Israel annexes all of the settlements like Bibi said he would do, then it would become one.

Granting the West Bank Palestinians citizenship would be one fix. It would mean Netanyahu would never be Prime Minister ever again, though. And staying in power is the one guiding principle that he follows, so it would never happen.

wrong wrong wrong. i guess allowing arabs in the golan to become citizens was the end the admin then right?

the fact you even typed the words shows thats exactly that what you think of israel. Evil jews oppressing the poor arabs who only want to work their bodies bloody for their jew overloards.

pals have their own fucking stock exchange. they have a massive internal and for export produce industry

look at the horrible conditions the jews make the arabs live in

Edited: 9/12/19 10:03 AM
1/1/01
Posts: 46590

william the conqueror was a tyranny. seizure of property for tax debt is tyrannical. you need to tell the US IRS. eminent domain tyrannical

you seem to think the when a country take over another, they cant do whatever they fuck the want. every thing else you write is 100% bullshit.
Your a fucking liar.

qoute where i say israel bought all the land.

compare and contract all israeli policy that mimic apartheid, or how they would should they annex the valley. if they have no similarities today, why in the fuck would they insitute those policies in the future.

go on, i'll wait


I've written exactly why youre wrong and youre either too stupid to comprehend,or you're purposefully misrepresenting what i'm saying so you can continue to make strawman arguements. Either way, i'm done with you. You lose. I win. everything you post is 100% bullshit. the end

9/12/19 9:56 AM
6/13/09
Posts: 15561
lionsoul - 
blood fist - 
lionsoul -
blood fist - 
lionsoul - 
blood fist -
Ghengiseanie - 
blood fist -
Ghengiseanie - 

So you are planing on annexing part of JOrdan next. That Greater Zion project is just a conspiracy theory right?


It's unclear who you are addressing that question to, Ghengis.

 

anyone may answer or comment

 

I don't want to see any annexations or land confiscations. I think it's a horrible idea.

It would feed right into the accusations of "Greater Israel".  It would be hard to refute.

If Israel starts doing blatant things like that, they could actually lose MY support in some ways.

 

 

Ha.  Please Bloodfist.

That's never going to happen.


No. I'm not joking. If Israel does that, I will lose a lot of respect for them.

I will still be for the survival of the state of Israel, but it would change the way I viewed the country.


Meh... if their actions haven't caused you to lose respect for them by now, I doubt anything else they do would cause that.

There is no reason for the aggressive settlement building and destruction of Palestinian homes and neighborhoods in the west bank and Arab East Jerusalem.

This has been going on for a long time.

I don't see why you would doubt what I said. I am not known 4 making things up or lying about anything.

If Israel were actually to do that, I mean take over that entire piece of land, I seriously would have to look at them differently as a country.

Please don't doubt me. I'm serious.

 

 


Not suggesting you are lying... just saying that if you already don't have issues with some of Israel's policies and behaviors not sure what is so different about this one...


That's a good point. Israel has taken a lot of liberties with Palestian rights and land over the years,

But this would be an absolutely idiotic disaster of major proportions. It's morally wrong and world opinion will absolutesly skewer Israel for this...and it should. 

And it scares me that with Trump's backing Netanyahu might actually do it.

Yes, this would cause me to reconsider the full support I've been giving Israel. I can't support this move.

Once again, I'm not joking. Take it as you like.

9/12/19 9:58 AM
6/13/09
Posts: 15562

I am going to read Anthony's and DILLIGAF's back and forth when I have time.

It's an opportunity for me to learn.

9/12/19 10:25 AM
11/28/08
Posts: 21452
D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F. -
anthonyMI -
D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F. -
anthonyMI -
D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F. -
anthonyMI -
blood fist -
anthonyMI - 

Genghis confused the Jordan Valley with the Kingdom of Jordan.

I don't know how serious Bibi is with this. Usually his right-wing song and dance before elections is kept vague so he can't really be called a liar. The Jordan Valley annexation is much more specific and pointed. It sounds more believable.

The stuff about annexing all settlements was bundled with a way to get out of it. The Trump Peace Plan, or the lack of one.

 

Anthony, what would your reaction be if Israel annexed the Jordan Valley? And what do you think the world's reaction would be?

It is rough. I always have it in the back of my mind that I'll move back to Israel and even get my citizenship. If all of the settlements are annexed, that is game over for that idea. Israel will have become an Apartheid State and the Zionist dream will be dead. The best case scenario would be to have the inevitable crisis result in a bi-national state instead of something worse. Salvage what can be salvaged. Give me Yavne and it's scholars.

I don't think the Jordan Valley annexation is quite beyond me red lines. I'd be pissed, but it would still be salvageable. The Jordan Valley is agricultural, but not many people live there. Most of that land area is already on lock down as military-use. It dicks over the Palestinians and makes peace even more difficult than before, but it is land that is prime for being swapped while allowing Israel to maintain some kind of presence on the Jordanian border.

As for the world, I don't know but it won't be good.

derp.. typica jew hating trope "Apartheid State". No, it wouldnt. Israel not only has miles to go to have the same laws as "Apartheid", and, Apartheid was specfically the law set of SA. Even if tey had the exact same laws, it wouldnt be Apartheid.

For now. The full annexation of the settlement blocs, which would make a third of the population of the State into non-citizen resident aliens without any possibility of citizenship and few rights, living in discreet pockets of essentially bantustans with no guarantee of freedom of movement between them. That action would cover those miles. You can make up another word for it if Apartheid is too specific. Hafrada is the closest to it, but doesn't feel strong enough.

I am skeptical that Bibi would follow through with that promise, though. He isn't that crazy. I don't think.

being a democracy, and having a actual court that doesnt necessarily side with the government, i could see a lawsuit, if it didnt happen immediately, if israel did annex any terrority, i could see them becoming citizens, just like every arab was given the oppertunity to become a full israeli citizen when they became a state. The arabs living in the Golan when annex were offered citizenship. And take guess. Did they accept the offer?

its funny, how YOU and EVERY anti jew calls israel apartheid inits current form. the ara members of the kneset hd the never to call israel it when the nation state law as passed  . they are members of the government, duely elected and serving. there are specific governmental agency completely run by arabs for arabs, yet they say apartheid because israel DARE establish a national langue that isnt theirs. israeli citizens with every right a jew has. And you have the never to use the term too. Why not just them filthy vermin and be done with it

you know, palestinians have no one to blame but themselves. when israel was formed, their were 85k in gaza. theres 2.5 million today. Conditions were so horrible, they decided to have 20 kids each, just so they can suffer more. he's a fucking idea, how about you move the fuck out and better your life? Oh, wait, everywhere they went, they were so horrible to the host nation, they were kicked out. Given a home in Jordan, and they repay the kindness by trying to overthrow the government. Cry me a river.

Not once did I say that Israel is currently an apartheid state. You just keep on keeping on with that hardline black and white thinking. Everyone who disagrees with you is just some Jew-hater. If Israel annexes all of the settlements like Bibi said he would do, then it would become one.

Granting the West Bank Palestinians citizenship would be one fix. It would mean Netanyahu would never be Prime Minister ever again, though. And staying in power is the one guiding principle that he follows, so it would never happen.

wrong wrong wrong. i guess allowing arabs in the golan to become citizens was the end the admin then right?

the fact you even typed the words shows thats exactly that what you think of israel. Evil jews oppressing the poor arabs who only want to work their bodies bloody for their jew overloards.

pals have their own fucking stock exchange. they have a massive internal and for export produce industry

look at the horrible conditions the jews make the arabs live in

The Druzim in Golan are Syrian citizens that don't want to be branded as traitors if Golan is ever returned to Syria. I don't think there is any chance of that happening, and I really hope it doesn't, but it is a problem they have to worry about. Though, there has been a modest increase in the Golan Druzim applying for and receiving Israeli citizenship since the Syrian Civil War began. But, there aren't enough of them to pose a demographic or electoral threat.

If the West Bank Palestinians become Israeli citizens, they will become a dominant political force in the country. And they sure as shit won't be joining coalitions with Likud or the other right wing parties. No more Netanyahu. At that point, the annexation of Gaza would become a fait accompli. Palestinians would make up half of the electorate and growing.

You are taking a much further Left position here than I am. Kinda surprising. I like having a Jewish State.

9/12/19 10:39 AM
5/10/08
Posts: 47668

DILLAGAF:

"Why not just them filthy vermin and be done with it"

"Oh, wait, everywhere they went, they were so horrible to the host nation, they were kicked out."

You know DILLAGAF, throughout the course of history, there was another group of people who were referred to in the same context and treated similarly (kicked out or mistreated again and again).

Finally, that group of people said "enough is enough" and sought to have their own country.

I would think that perhaps you would have more empathy for the Palestinian people.

9/12/19 10:46 AM
11/28/08
Posts: 21453
D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F. -

william the conqueror was a tyranny. seizure of property for tax debt is tyrannical. you need to tell the US IRS. eminent domain tyrannical

you seem to think the when a country take over another, they cant do whatever they fuck the want. every thing else you write is 100% bullshit.
Your a fucking liar.

qoute where i say israel bought all the land.

compare and contract all israeli policy that mimic apartheid, or how they would should they annex the valley. if they have no similarities today, why in the fuck would they insitute those policies in the future.

go on, i'll wait


I've written exactly why youre wrong and youre either too stupid to comprehend,or you're purposefully misrepresenting what i'm saying so you can continue to make strawman arguements. Either way, i'm done with you. You lose. I win. everything you post is 100% bullshit. the end

Billy the Bastard sure was tyrannical. And yes, eminent domain is often used in bullshit ways.

Are you familiar with the phrase I used to describe your position here? The strong do what they can while the weak suffer what they must? It is about the Athenian massacre of the Melians. This atrocity shook Athenian society and helped recruit people to the Spartan cause, leading to the end of the Athenian empire.

Legally, no, you u can't just do whatever you want when you take over land. Pragmatically, you can't really do that either without provoking a response.

The logic you are using here was used as justification for the Holocaust. And you have also justified pogroms and expulsions on this thread. You should really think through your positions here.

You have leaned into how Zionists bought all of the land from Turkish landlords. Square mile wise, most of the land was not purchased from anyone by the Zionists and, of the land that was purchased, a lot of it was purchased from Palestinians, from the Abu Ghosh clan was an example I used earlier because they were friendly to the cause. If you want you argument to be that the early Zionists bought a good amount of the land from its owners, and that many of the sellers were absentee Turkish landlords, ok. I won't hound you on it.

Apartheid seems like a more likely outcome that creating a bi-national state or a state of all its citizens. Those are the options in the absence of a two state solution, which would finally be put in its grave if the settlements are annexed.

9/12/19 10:48 AM
11/28/08
Posts: 21454
lionsoul -

DILLAGAF:

"Why not just them filthy vermin and be done with it"

"Oh, wait, everywhere they went, they were so horrible to the host nation, they were kicked out."

You know DILLAGAF, throughout the course of history, there was another group of people who were referred to in the same context and treated similarly (kicked out or mistreated again and again).

Finally, that group of people said "enough is enough" and sought to have their own country.

I would think that perhaps you would have more empathy for the Palestinian people.

His choice of words was weirdly specific too. Literally the exact same arguments used by the Nazis, word for word.

Edited: 9/12/19 11:09 AM
1/1/01
Posts: 46591
lionsoul -

DILLAGAF:

"Why not just them filthy vermin and be done with it"

"Oh, wait, everywhere they went, they were so horrible to the host nation, they were kicked out."

You know DILLAGAF, throughout the course of history, there was another group of people who were referred to in the same context and treated similarly (kicked out or mistreated again and again).

Finally, that group of people said "enough is enough" and sought to have their own country.

I would think that perhaps you would have more empathy for the Palestinian people.

BWWAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAH

yeah, because being kicked out of a country pecifically because your customs or religion was different, and being kicked out because you started an insurection and tried to stage a violent overthrow of the government are the exact same thing

oh yeah, those people were already offered their own country in the late 1940s and said, nope

 

troll troll troll your boat

9/12/19 10:57 AM
1/1/01
Posts: 46592
anthonyMI -
lionsoul -

DILLAGAF:

"Why not just them filthy vermin and be done with it"

"Oh, wait, everywhere they went, they were so horrible to the host nation, they were kicked out."

You know DILLAGAF, throughout the course of history, there was another group of people who were referred to in the same context and treated similarly (kicked out or mistreated again and again).

Finally, that group of people said "enough is enough" and sought to have their own country.

I would think that perhaps you would have more empathy for the Palestinian people.

His choice of words was weirdly specific too. Literally the exact same arguments used by the Nazis, word for word.

you really are a fucking meat head. dead seriously.

i used the words, because that is the words the nazis used to descibe jews. its the words i'm tell you , you might as well just use, because you hate jews with every fiber of your being . To even remotely suggest apartied, which btw you dick tucked and cant say one thing the jews do that is the same as SA, is the same as nazis calling jews vermin.

 

hope that clears it up...but wont stop you from misrepresenting what i'm saying

9/12/19 11:02 AM
11/28/08
Posts: 21455

For the third time because you are slow, I'll use the simplest sentence structure as I can.

If Israel annexes the settlements, it will become an Apartheid state.

It is not presently an Apartheid State.

I hope that I won't have to say it a fourth because I can't think of how to make it more straightforward than that. It is on you at this point.

9/12/19 11:04 AM
1/1/01
Posts: 46593
anthonyMI -
D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F. -

william the conqueror was a tyranny. seizure of property for tax debt is tyrannical. you need to tell the US IRS. eminent domain tyrannical

you seem to think the when a country take over another, they cant do whatever they fuck the want. every thing else you write is 100% bullshit.
Your a fucking liar.

qoute where i say israel bought all the land.

compare and contract all israeli policy that mimic apartheid, or how they would should they annex the valley. if they have no similarities today, why in the fuck would they insitute those policies in the future.

go on, i'll wait


I've written exactly why youre wrong and youre either too stupid to comprehend,or you're purposefully misrepresenting what i'm saying so you can continue to make strawman arguements. Either way, i'm done with you. You lose. I win. everything you post is 100% bullshit. the end

Billy the Bastard sure was tyrannical. And yes, eminent domain is often used in bullshit ways.

Are you familiar with the phrase I used to describe your position here? The strong do what they can while the weak suffer what they must? It is about the Athenian massacre of the Melians. This atrocity shook Athenian society and helped recruit people to the Spartan cause, leading to the end of the Athenian empire.

Legally, no, you u can't just do whatever you want when you take over land. Pragmatically, you can't really do that either without provoking a response.

The logic you are using here was used as justification for the Holocaust. And you have also justified pogroms and expulsions on this thread. You should really think through your positions here.

You have leaned into how Zionists bought all of the land from Turkish landlords. Square mile wise, most of the land was not purchased from anyone by the Zionists and, of the land that was purchased, a lot of it was purchased from Palestinians, from the Abu Ghosh clan was an example I used earlier because they were friendly to the cause. If you want you argument to be that the early Zionists bought a good amount of the land from its owners, and that many of the sellers were absentee Turkish landlords, ok. I won't hound you on it.

Apartheid seems like a more likely outcome that creating a bi-national state or a state of all its citizens. Those are the options in the absence of a two state solution, which would finally be put in its grave if the settlements are annexed.

there you go, just repeating the say lie, no matter how many times i say i didnt say what you say i said.

 

troll troll your boat.  

 

PALESTINIANS NOT OWNING THEIR FUCKING LAND HAS FUCK ALL TO DO WITH JEWS AQUIRING ISRAEL.

Holy fuck. you get stupider with every fucking post. Answer this, skipper, if you cant to do whatever the fuck you want with captured land, how the fuck did the allies carve up the entire ME , create countries out of thin air, and give it to whomever they wanted, INCLUDING ISRAEL TO THE JEWS.

You really are a dipshit. How in the fuck can Jews be told "Hey, all this land over here, thats all yours. Ummmm, just one. AnthonyMI the dipshit says you cant do what you want with it, so, yeah, you're not going to be able to build anything, or do anything or anything, but hey. Good luck with your new "country"

Holy fuck why do i even entertain a word you write

9/12/19 11:06 AM
1/1/01
Posts: 46594
anthonyMI -

For the third time because you are slow, I'll use the simplest sentence structure as I can.

If Israel annexes the settlements, it will become an Apartheid state.

It is not presently an Apartheid State.

I hope that I won't have to say it a fourth because I can't think of how to make it more straightforward than that. It is on you at this point.

for the third time, because youre fucking slow, tell me EXACTLY HOW.

Tell me the laws they will institute, that they clearly do not have now, that will make them exactly the same as Baasskap.

 

9/12/19 11:08 AM
5/10/08
Posts: 47671
D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F. - 
anthonyMI -
lionsoul -

DILLAGAF:

"Why not just them filthy vermin and be done with it"

"Oh, wait, everywhere they went, they were so horrible to the host nation, they were kicked out."

You know DILLAGAF, throughout the course of history, there was another group of people who were referred to in the same context and treated similarly (kicked out or mistreated again and again).

Finally, that group of people said "enough is enough" and sought to have their own country.

I would think that perhaps you would have more empathy for the Palestinian people.

His choice of words was weirdly specific too. Literally the exact same arguments used by the Nazis, word for word.

you really are a fucking meat head. dead seriously.

i used the words, because that is the words the nazis used to descibe jews. its the words i'm tell you , you might as well just use, because you hate jews with every fiber of your being . To even remotely suggest apartied, which btw you dick tucked and cant say one thing the jews do that is the same as SA, is the same as nazis calling jews vermin.

 

hope that clears it up...but wont stop you from misrepresenting what i'm saying


Dude... first you said "vermin"...

But then you also said:

""Oh, wait, everywhere they went, they were so horrible to the host nation, they were kicked out."

It is just bizarre that you would choose to describe the Palestinians that way (i.e. being horrible and kicked out by the "host nation")
 
Hoping that perhaps this might make you have a moment of self-reflection and take a step back.
 
Not everything in life is so black and white.
Edited: 9/12/19 11:15 AM
1/1/01
Posts: 46595
lionsoul -
D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F. - 
anthonyMI -
lionsoul -

DILLAGAF:

"Why not just them filthy vermin and be done with it"

"Oh, wait, everywhere they went, they were so horrible to the host nation, they were kicked out."

You know DILLAGAF, throughout the course of history, there was another group of people who were referred to in the same context and treated similarly (kicked out or mistreated again and again).

Finally, that group of people said "enough is enough" and sought to have their own country.

I would think that perhaps you would have more empathy for the Palestinian people.

His choice of words was weirdly specific too. Literally the exact same arguments used by the Nazis, word for word.

you really are a fucking meat head. dead seriously.

i used the words, because that is the words the nazis used to descibe jews. its the words i'm tell you , you might as well just use, because you hate jews with every fiber of your being . To even remotely suggest apartied, which btw you dick tucked and cant say one thing the jews do that is the same as SA, is the same as nazis calling jews vermin.

 

hope that clears it up...but wont stop you from misrepresenting what i'm saying

 

Dude... first you said "vermin"...

But then you also said:

""Oh, wait, everywhere they went, they were so horrible to the host nation, they were kicked out."

It is just bizarre that you would choose to describe the Palestinians that way (i.e. being horrible and kicked out by the "host nation")
 
Hoping that perhaps this might make you have a moment of self-reflection and take a step back.
 
Not everything in life is so black and white.

dude, LEARN TO FUCKING READ AND COMPREHEND

I WAS TELLING THE OTHER DOUCH TO JUST CALL JEWS VERMIN, AND BE DONE WITH IT.

LMFAO - yeah, trying to violently overthrowing a host nation is a great way to act.

9/12/19 11:15 AM
1/1/01
Posts: 46596
anthonyMI -
D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F. -
anthonyMI -
D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F. -
anthonyMI -
D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F. -
anthonyMI -
blood fist -
anthonyMI - 

Genghis confused the Jordan Valley with the Kingdom of Jordan.

I don't know how serious Bibi is with this. Usually his right-wing song and dance before elections is kept vague so he can't really be called a liar. The Jordan Valley annexation is much more specific and pointed. It sounds more believable.

The stuff about annexing all settlements was bundled with a way to get out of it. The Trump Peace Plan, or the lack of one.

 

Anthony, what would your reaction be if Israel annexed the Jordan Valley? And what do you think the world's reaction would be?

It is rough. I always have it in the back of my mind that I'll move back to Israel and even get my citizenship. If all of the settlements are annexed, that is game over for that idea. Israel will have become an Apartheid State and the Zionist dream will be dead. The best case scenario would be to have the inevitable crisis result in a bi-national state instead of something worse. Salvage what can be salvaged. Give me Yavne and it's scholars.

I don't think the Jordan Valley annexation is quite beyond me red lines. I'd be pissed, but it would still be salvageable. The Jordan Valley is agricultural, but not many people live there. Most of that land area is already on lock down as military-use. It dicks over the Palestinians and makes peace even more difficult than before, but it is land that is prime for being swapped while allowing Israel to maintain some kind of presence on the Jordanian border.

As for the world, I don't know but it won't be good.

derp.. typica jew hating trope "Apartheid State". No, it wouldnt. Israel not only has miles to go to have the same laws as "Apartheid", and, Apartheid was specfically the law set of SA. Even if tey had the exact same laws, it wouldnt be Apartheid.

For now. The full annexation of the settlement blocs, which would make a third of the population of the State into non-citizen resident aliens without any possibility of citizenship and few rights, living in discreet pockets of essentially bantustans with no guarantee of freedom of movement between them. That action would cover those miles. You can make up another word for it if Apartheid is too specific. Hafrada is the closest to it, but doesn't feel strong enough.

I am skeptical that Bibi would follow through with that promise, though. He isn't that crazy. I don't think.

being a democracy, and having a actual court that doesnt necessarily side with the government, i could see a lawsuit, if it didnt happen immediately, if israel did annex any terrority, i could see them becoming citizens, just like every arab was given the oppertunity to become a full israeli citizen when they became a state. The arabs living in the Golan when annex were offered citizenship. And take guess. Did they accept the offer?

its funny, how YOU and EVERY anti jew calls israel apartheid inits current form. the ara members of the kneset hd the never to call israel it when the nation state law as passed  . they are members of the government, duely elected and serving. there are specific governmental agency completely run by arabs for arabs, yet they say apartheid because israel DARE establish a national langue that isnt theirs. israeli citizens with every right a jew has. And you have the never to use the term too. Why not just them filthy vermin and be done with it

you know, palestinians have no one to blame but themselves. when israel was formed, their were 85k in gaza. theres 2.5 million today. Conditions were so horrible, they decided to have 20 kids each, just so they can suffer more. he's a fucking idea, how about you move the fuck out and better your life? Oh, wait, everywhere they went, they were so horrible to the host nation, they were kicked out. Given a home in Jordan, and they repay the kindness by trying to overthrow the government. Cry me a river.

Not once did I say that Israel is currently an apartheid state. You just keep on keeping on with that hardline black and white thinking. Everyone who disagrees with you is just some Jew-hater. If Israel annexes all of the settlements like Bibi said he would do, then it would become one.

Granting the West Bank Palestinians citizenship would be one fix. It would mean Netanyahu would never be Prime Minister ever again, though. And staying in power is the one guiding principle that he follows, so it would never happen.

wrong wrong wrong. i guess allowing arabs in the golan to become citizens was the end the admin then right?

the fact you even typed the words shows thats exactly that what you think of israel. Evil jews oppressing the poor arabs who only want to work their bodies bloody for their jew overloards.

pals have their own fucking stock exchange. they have a massive internal and for export produce industry

look at the horrible conditions the jews make the arabs live in

The Druzim in Golan are Syrian citizens that don't want to be branded as traitors if Golan is ever returned to Syria. I don't think there is any chance of that happening, and I really hope it doesn't, but it is a problem they have to worry about. Though, there has been a modest increase in the Golan Druzim applying for and receiving Israeli citizenship since the Syrian Civil War began. But, there aren't enough of them to pose a demographic or electoral threat.

If the West Bank Palestinians become Israeli citizens, they will become a dominant political force in the country. And they sure as shit won't be joining coalitions with Likud or the other right wing parties. No more Netanyahu. At that point, the annexation of Gaza would become a fait accompli. Palestinians would make up half of the electorate and growing.

You are taking a much further Left position here than I am. Kinda surprising. I like having a Jewish State.

well, fuck them then.

there was a documentary about jewish DRs saying a palestinian kids life in a jewish hospital.

the film crew asked his mother what she wanted for her son when he grews up.

she said "i hope he grows up to be a suicide bomber and kills as many jews as he can"

thats the mentality of pals. And i qoute "when they start loving their children, more than they hate jews, there will be peace"

9/12/19 11:19 AM
11/28/08
Posts: 21456

"PALESTINIANS NOT OWNING THEIR FUCKING LAND HAS FUCK ALL TO DO WITH JEWS AQUIRING ISRAEL."

Then why have you been putting so much effort on the argument that Palestinians have no right to the land because Jews bought it fair and square?

The Mandate system is the worst possible defense for the right of the conquerer to do whatever they want. Why do you think they were called Mandates? Britain and France were mandated to serve a custodial role in the Middle East until the people living there were ready to set up their own governments. Technically, it was a decolonization process to shepherd the former subjects of the Ottoman Empire into self-governance under the principal of international law through the League of Nations. Later, Israel was established by a vote at the UN.

9/12/19 11:21 AM
11/28/08
Posts: 21457

"well, fuck them then."

So you are changing your vote to supporting Apartheid then?

9/12/19 11:31 AM
5/10/08
Posts: 47672
anthonyMI - 

For the third time because you are slow, I'll use the simplest sentence structure as I can.

If Israel annexes the settlements, it will become an Apartheid state.

It is not presently an Apartheid State.

I hope that I won't have to say it a fourth because I can't think of how to make it more straightforward than that. It is on you at this point.


"It is not presently an Apartheid State."

I disagree with this.

IMO... it is hard to argue that the consistent settlement building and the home and settlement dismantling of the Palestinians by the Israelis (in the West Bank and Arab East Jerusalem) isn't the same thing.

As those strategically settlements continue to grow, they become part of the Israeli state.  Each and every new "peace" discussion always starts with the Israelis claiming that those settlements are permanent and too late to change now given all the people who now live there.

It is surreptitious and gross... but it is already an Apartheid State.

Israel controls all goods and services into Gaza.  Controls all energy and flow of water.

Whether you like it or not, and whether they say it or not, Israel has already claimed the entire region as their own and they are treating a certain subgroup of people as subhumans.

It is a walking talking contradiction to claim otherwise.  

Had Israel abided by the previously agreed to borders (as recognized by the international community) or given complete sovereignty (including freedom of movement) to the Palestinians, you might be able to claim otherwise.

But they haven't.

9/12/19 11:43 AM
11/28/08
Posts: 21458
lionsoul -
anthonyMI - 

For the third time because you are slow, I'll use the simplest sentence structure as I can.

If Israel annexes the settlements, it will become an Apartheid state.

It is not presently an Apartheid State.

I hope that I won't have to say it a fourth because I can't think of how to make it more straightforward than that. It is on you at this point.


"It is not presently an Apartheid State."

I disagree with this.

IMO... it is hard to argue that the consistent settlement building and the home and settlement dismantling of the Palestinians by the Israelis (in the West Bank and Arab East Jerusalem) isn't the same thing.

As those strategically settlements continue to grow, they become part of the Israeli state.  Each and every new "peace" discussion always starts with the Israelis claiming that those settlements are permanent and too late to change now given all the people who now live there.

It is surreptitious and gross... but it is already an Apartheid State.

Israel controls all goods and services into Gaza.  Controls all energy and flow of water.

Whether you like it or not, and whether they say it or not, Israel has already claimed the entire region as their own and they are treating a certain subgroup of people as subhumans.

It is a walking talking contradiction to claim otherwise.  

Had Israel abided by the previously agreed to borders (as recognized by the international community) or given complete sovereignty (including freedom of movement) to the Palestinians, you might be able to claim otherwise.

But they haven't.

It has not always been the position of the Israeli government that settlements are non-negotiable. That is a new hard-right stance that Netanyahu has taken. The settlements that are usually slated for eventual annexation are Maa'le Adumim, Gush Etzion, Givaat Ze'ev, Modiin Ilit, and maybe Ariel. With the exception of Ariel, they are right along the Green Line. They also home to the majority of settlers.

The current situation is supposed to be temporary, not final-status. Temporary is just lasting a really long time. What is happening now is an occupation. The two terms are mutually exclusive.

9/12/19 12:28 PM
5/10/08
Posts: 47676

And Putin filling the void that America has left:

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2019/09/netanyahu-putin-meet-russia-condemns-annexation-plan-190912063850064.html

9/12/19 12:38 PM
1/1/01
Posts: 46602
anthonyMI -

"PALESTINIANS NOT OWNING THEIR FUCKING LAND HAS FUCK ALL TO DO WITH JEWS AQUIRING ISRAEL."

Then why have you been putting so much effort on the argument that Palestinians have no right to the land because Jews bought it fair and square?

The Mandate system is the worst possible defense for the right of the conquerer to do whatever they want. Why do you think they were called Mandates? Britain and France were mandated to serve a custodial role in the Middle East until the people living there were ready to set up their own governments. Technically, it was a decolonization process to shepherd the former subjects of the Ottoman Empire into self-governance under the principal of international law through the League of Nations. Later, Israel was established by a vote at the UN.

quote the post i say BOUGHT IT.

they bought a good deal of land, but not where close enough to be considered a state. Maybe monaco size, if that.

and EVERY BORDER OF EVERY COUNTRY was drawn everever the fuck they wanted.

Jordan went to hesimites, even though they had zero historical ties there. Saudi arabi went to the dipshits that helped the brits, not the family would ruled previously, on and on and on ., your arguments are for shit

 Britain and France were mandated to serve a custodial role in the Middle East until the people living there were ready to set up their own governments

The process of establishing the mandates consisted of two phases:

  1. The formal removal of sovereignty of the state previously controlling the territory.
  2. The transfer of mandatory powers to individual states among the Allied Powers.

all the "stated" goal of  "... have reached a stage of development where their existence as independent nations can be provisionally recognized subject to the rendering of administrative advice and assistance by a Mandatory until such time as they are able to stand alone. The wishes of these communities must be a principal consideration"... went right out the fucking window. not a single "Class A mandate" actually allowed the locals to have their own country. Not SA, Not Mesopotenia, Not Sryia, not Lebanon(syria), not jordan. Not a fucking one. BUT BUT BUT Palestians were special INSIDE ISRAEL. FUCK the PAls that were living in what became Jordam, even though that was really the administrative area called palestine.

fuck right off with that bullshit