OtherGround Forums Hezbollah getting precision guided missiles:Uh Oh

8/31/19 8:37 PM
12/28/04
Posts: 30992
blood fist - 
BrocksSwockRanTrane_onShane - 

Of all the bits of land to steal who on earth though this would be a good idea...

Image result for religion map islam


I'm not sure steal is the appropriate word. The UN gave Israel the right to exist as a state. The UN also offered the Arabs (Pals) half the land for their own state. They refused the offer (which most of them now regret) and instead tried to wipe Israel out.with the help of all the surrounding Arab countries, . The outcome is well-known.

But that is such a completely different topic, I don't want to get into it.

It's a WHOLE different can of worms than the alarming shit that's taking place today.

 


People were, and still are being, forcibly removed from their land and homes which was then given to others. If that is not stealing I don't know what is.  

8/31/19 8:40 PM
12/28/04
Posts: 30993
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lionsoul - 

^^^^ Would also likely begin a broader war with Iran where we (the USA) would bomb the shit out of military targets in Tehran...

Sounds like a nightmare scenario...


 I would love for us to stay out of it even if Iran gets drawn in. But short of using nukes, I'm not sure Israel can handle Hezbollah and Iran at the same time.


Best think to do TBH. There will never be peace in that area while the west interfears, let them sort it out and to the winner the spoils. Its a harsh but true fact that pretty much every stable region is born that way. 


There will never be peace in that area while there is Islam. Call the problem by its true name and don't try to blame the West.

The problem is that a the west decided to steal land and move a bunch of jews into the heart of islam. I am pretty sure if the roles were reversed and the muslims kicked everyone out of, and took over, DC, you would be equally as pissed. 

But that boat has sailed, IMO its time the west stopped messing with other people shit. Leave them to it and let them sort it out. 


Again, not that easy.

Iran is in the middle of all this.  That means their close ally Russia is involved. Any time Russia is involved its trouble and 'all bets off'.

Need I go further? If Israel starts getting decapitated, it's nuke time and nukes may be flying from more than one country. The whole world would be involved.

We can't just let them sort it out in a nuclear world.


Russia isn't going to start nuking people.


Russia will also not let Israel nuke Iran.

If Israel HAS to start nuking people due to existential danger, you don't know what Russia might do.


Israel do not HAVE to nuke anyone. 


They might.  If Hezbollah deploys those missiles and uses them.

I don't think Israel will tolerate those missiles.

If those precision missiles start coming in and destroying Israeli cities, Israel will do whatever it has to do to survive..


If they start dropping nukes on people then they deserve to be wiped out. 

8/31/19 8:43 PM
12/28/04
Posts: 30994
D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F. - 
BrocksSwockRanTrane_onShane -
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lionsoul - 

^^^^ Would also likely begin a broader war with Iran where we (the USA) would bomb the shit out of military targets in Tehran...

Sounds like a nightmare scenario...


 I would love for us to stay out of it even if Iran gets drawn in. But short of using nukes, I'm not sure Israel can handle Hezbollah and Iran at the same time.


Best think to do TBH. There will never be peace in that area while the west interfears, let them sort it out and to the winner the spoils. Its a harsh but true fact that pretty much every stable region is born that way. 


There will never be peace in that area while there is Islam. Call the problem by its true name and don't try to blame the West.

The problem is that a the west decided to steal land and move a bunch of jews into the heart of islam. I am pretty sure if the roles were reversed and the muslims kicked everyone out of, and took over, DC, you would be equally as pissed. 

But that boat has sailed, IMO its time the west stopped messing with other people shit. Leave them to it and let them sort it out. 


Again, not that easy.

Iran is in the middle of all this.  That means their close ally Russia is involved. Any time Russia is involved its trouble and 'all bets off'.

Need I go further? If Israel starts getting decapitated, it's nuke time and nukes may be flying from more than one country. The whole world would be involved.

We can't just let them sort it out in a nuclear world.


Russia isn't going to start nuking people.


Russia will also not let Israel nuke Iran.

If Israel HAS to start nuking people due to existential danger, you don't know what Russia might do.


Israel do not HAVE to nuke anyone. 

sure. they could just allow themselves to be wiped off the face of the earth. every man woman child murdered. sounds like a reasonable alternative


Or they could make a REAL effort at a peace agreement. Lets not pretend like they are 100% innocent here. 

Edited: 8/31/19 9:08 PM
6/13/09
Posts: 15356
scab1 - So we're just going to take it at face value that it's an easy and cheap conversion from dumb rockets with non moveable stabilizers to "precision" guided missiles with real flight control surfaces and a simple, super-accurate "Waze-like" GPS guidance system?

Someone would have to do research a lot deeper than that article to find out how much the missiles cost and how long it would take Iran and Hezbollah to set them up. But if it wasn't a feasible idea, I doubt that Hezbollah would be doing it. They are not stupid either. Hezbollah has become a formidable opponent.

They are a sophisticated military force now. If not an actual Army.

 

 

Edited: 8/31/19 9:11 PM
6/13/09
Posts: 15357

.

8/31/19 9:04 PM
1/17/03
Posts: 15154

The left will cheer

Edited: 8/31/19 9:12 PM
5/1/16
Posts: 119

Between jammers , phalanx and missile defense systems most wouldn't get close . Of course some will but not an overwhelming amount . We can push a button and shutdown any satellite or use a certain plane that has been in space for a long time . If they had the tech to have terrain mapping navigation where the weapon directed itself instead of relying on outside sources like gps  it would be much harder to stop . 

8/31/19 9:13 PM
6/13/09
Posts: 15358
ChucksChin -

Between jammers , phalanx and missile defense systems most wouldn't get close . Of course some will but not an overwhelming amount . We can push a button and shutdown any satellite or use a certain plane that has been in space for a long time . If they had the tech to have terrain mapping navigation where the weapon directed itself instead of relying on outside sources like gps  it would be much harder to stop . 

I hope you are right about that.

Edited: 8/31/19 9:16 PM
6/13/09
Posts: 15359
Erik Apple -

The left will cheer

Hey. Where you been hiding out? You should come around more often.

What would the left cheer? I'm afraid I'm not following your drift here.

8/31/19 9:20 PM
5/10/08
Posts: 47282
blood fist - 
ChucksChin -

Between jammers , phalanx and missile defense systems most wouldn't get close . Of course some will but not an overwhelming amount . We can push a button and shutdown any satellite or use a certain plane that has been in space for a long time . If they had the tech to have terrain mapping navigation where the weapon directed itself instead of relying on outside sources like gps  it would be much harder to stop . 

I hope you are right about that.


Sure... but then be prepared to shut down GPS for everyone....

Edited: 8/31/19 9:23 PM
6/13/09
Posts: 15360
BrocksSwockRanTrane_onShane -
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lionsoul - 

^^^^ Would also likely begin a broader war with Iran where we (the USA) would bomb the shit out of military targets in Tehran...

Sounds like a nightmare scenario...

 

 I would love for us to stay out of it even if Iran gets drawn in. But short of using nukes, I'm not sure Israel can handle Hezbollah and Iran at the same time.

 

Best think to do TBH. There will never be peace in that area while the west interfears, let them sort it out and to the winner the spoils. Its a harsh but true fact that pretty much every stable region is born that way. 


There will never be peace in that area while there is Islam. Call the problem by its true name and don't try to blame the West.
 

The problem is that a the west decided to steal land and move a bunch of jews into the heart of islam. I am pretty sure if the roles were reversed and the muslims kicked everyone out of, and took over, DC, you would be equally as pissed. 

But that boat has sailed, IMO its time the west stopped messing with other people shit. Leave them to it and let them sort it out. 

 

Again, not that easy.

Iran is in the middle of all this.  That means their close ally Russia is involved. Any time Russia is involved its trouble and 'all bets off'.

Need I go further? If Israel starts getting decapitated, it's nuke time and nukes may be flying from more than one country. The whole world would be involved.

We can't just let them sort it out in a nuclear world.

 

Russia isn't going to start nuking people.

 

Russia will also not let Israel nuke Iran.

If Israel HAS to start nuking people due to existential danger, you don't know what Russia might do.

 

Israel do not HAVE to nuke anyone. 

 

They might.  If Hezbollah deploys those missiles and uses them.

I don't think Israel will tolerate those missiles.

If those precision missiles start coming in and destroying Israeli cities, Israel will do whatever it has to do to survive..

 

If they start dropping nukes on people then they deserve to be wiped out. 

What if there was no other way to stop the Precision missiles from degrading the country?

Hezbollah is known to hide out deep in caves, as well as Blended in with other citizens.  Conventional Weapons might not stop Those guided missiles from coming in soon enough.

 What is Israel supposed to do in such a situation? Just sit there and suffer major damage?

 

 

Edited: 8/31/19 9:24 PM
5/1/16
Posts: 120

Me too , I have a pretty good idea of the systems and their capabilities. The same systems and tactics that have been brought online in recent years for defense against swarms of drones should be able to handle it easily. Probably an 80% success rate . But that's still gonna hurt 

Edited: 8/31/19 9:31 PM
5/1/16
Posts: 121
lionsoul -
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ChucksChin -

Between jammers , phalanx and missile defense systems most wouldn't get close . Of course some will but not an overwhelming amount . We can push a button and shutdown any satellite or use a certain plane that has been in space for a long time . If they had the tech to have terrain mapping navigation where the weapon directed itself instead of relying on outside sources like gps  it would be much harder to stop . 

I hope you are right about that.

 

Sure... but then be prepared to shut down GPS for everyone.... 

Edit : That won't  be an issue 

8/31/19 9:30 PM
12/28/04
Posts: 30995
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BrocksSwockRanTrane_onShane -
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lionsoul - 

^^^^ Would also likely begin a broader war with Iran where we (the USA) would bomb the shit out of military targets in Tehran...

Sounds like a nightmare scenario...

 

 I would love for us to stay out of it even if Iran gets drawn in. But short of using nukes, I'm not sure Israel can handle Hezbollah and Iran at the same time.

 

Best think to do TBH. There will never be peace in that area while the west interfears, let them sort it out and to the winner the spoils. Its a harsh but true fact that pretty much every stable region is born that way. 


There will never be peace in that area while there is Islam. Call the problem by its true name and don't try to blame the West.
 

The problem is that a the west decided to steal land and move a bunch of jews into the heart of islam. I am pretty sure if the roles were reversed and the muslims kicked everyone out of, and took over, DC, you would be equally as pissed. 

But that boat has sailed, IMO its time the west stopped messing with other people shit. Leave them to it and let them sort it out. 

 

Again, not that easy.

Iran is in the middle of all this.  That means their close ally Russia is involved. Any time Russia is involved its trouble and 'all bets off'.

Need I go further? If Israel starts getting decapitated, it's nuke time and nukes may be flying from more than one country. The whole world would be involved.

We can't just let them sort it out in a nuclear world.

 

Russia isn't going to start nuking people.

 

Russia will also not let Israel nuke Iran.

If Israel HAS to start nuking people due to existential danger, you don't know what Russia might do.

 

Israel do not HAVE to nuke anyone. 

 

They might.  If Hezbollah deploys those missiles and uses them.

I don't think Israel will tolerate those missiles.

If those precision missiles start coming in and destroying Israeli cities, Israel will do whatever it has to do to survive..

 

If they start dropping nukes on people then they deserve to be wiped out. 

What if there was no other way to stop the Precision missiles from degrading the country?

Hezbollah is known to hide out deep in caves, as well as Blended in with other citizens.  Conventional Weapons might not stop Those guided missiles from coming in soon enough.

 What is Israel supposed to do in such a situation? Just sit there and suffer major damage?

 

 


You don't start nuking people. Did the USA nuke Afghan, did the UK nuke Ireland, etc. 

8/31/19 9:30 PM
5/10/08
Posts: 47283
ChucksChin - 
lionsoul -
blood fist - 
ChucksChin -

Between jammers , phalanx and missile defense systems most wouldn't get close . Of course some will but not an overwhelming amount . We can push a button and shutdown any satellite or use a certain plane that has been in space for a long time . If they had the tech to have terrain mapping navigation where the weapon directed itself instead of relying on outside sources like gps  it would be much harder to stop . 

I hope you are right about that.

 

Sure... but then be prepared to shut down GPS for everyone.... 

Edit : Thats won't  be an issue 


I am saying GPS in that region...

Edited: 8/31/19 9:34 PM
5/1/16
Posts: 122
lionsoul -
ChucksChin - 
lionsoul -
blood fist - 
ChucksChin -

Between jammers , phalanx and missile defense systems most wouldn't get close . Of course some will but not an overwhelming amount . We can push a button and shutdown any satellite or use a certain plane that has been in space for a long time . If they had the tech to have terrain mapping navigation where the weapon directed itself instead of relying on outside sources like gps  it would be much harder to stop . 

I hope you are right about that.

 

Sure... but then be prepared to shut down GPS for everyone.... 

Edit : Thats won't  be an issue 

 

I am saying GPS in that region...

I'm saying that won't be a long term problem . They have ways around that . I'm not familiar with how they do that . But that's how it was explained to me 

Edited: 8/31/19 9:37 PM
6/13/09
Posts: 15361
lionsoul -
blood fist - 
ChucksChin -

Between jammers , phalanx and missile defense systems most wouldn't get close . Of course some will but not an overwhelming amount . We can push a button and shutdown any satellite or use a certain plane that has been in space for a long time . If they had the tech to have terrain mapping navigation where the weapon directed itself instead of relying on outside sources like gps  it would be much harder to stop . 

I hope you are right about that.

 

Sure... but then be prepared to shut down GPS for everyone....

Hey soul. You were a prophet on this one. You brought it up a couple of years ago as a potential Danger as I recall.

You'll have to forgive me, since I am somewhat stoned on medical marijuana for back pain at the moment, but what do you mean about shutting down GPS for everyone. Is that what he's proposing ? to disable the GPS missiles systems.?

8/31/19 9:39 PM
6/13/09
Posts: 15362
BrocksSwockRanTrane_onShane -
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Soul Gravy - 
BrocksSwockRanTrane_onShane - 
blood fist - 
lionsoul - 

^^^^ Would also likely begin a broader war with Iran where we (the USA) would bomb the shit out of military targets in Tehran...

Sounds like a nightmare scenario...

 

 I would love for us to stay out of it even if Iran gets drawn in. But short of using nukes, I'm not sure Israel can handle Hezbollah and Iran at the same time.

 

Best think to do TBH. There will never be peace in that area while the west interfears, let them sort it out and to the winner the spoils. Its a harsh but true fact that pretty much every stable region is born that way. 


There will never be peace in that area while there is Islam. Call the problem by its true name and don't try to blame the West.
 

The problem is that a the west decided to steal land and move a bunch of jews into the heart of islam. I am pretty sure if the roles were reversed and the muslims kicked everyone out of, and took over, DC, you would be equally as pissed. 

But that boat has sailed, IMO its time the west stopped messing with other people shit. Leave them to it and let them sort it out. 

 

Again, not that easy.

Iran is in the middle of all this.  That means their close ally Russia is involved. Any time Russia is involved its trouble and 'all bets off'.

Need I go further? If Israel starts getting decapitated, it's nuke time and nukes may be flying from more than one country. The whole world would be involved.

We can't just let them sort it out in a nuclear world.

 

Russia isn't going to start nuking people.

 

Russia will also not let Israel nuke Iran.

If Israel HAS to start nuking people due to existential danger, you don't know what Russia might do.

 

Israel do not HAVE to nuke anyone. 

 

They might.  If Hezbollah deploys those missiles and uses them.

I don't think Israel will tolerate those missiles.

If those precision missiles start coming in and destroying Israeli cities, Israel will do whatever it has to do to survive..

 

If they start dropping nukes on people then they deserve to be wiped out. 

What if there was no other way to stop the Precision missiles from degrading the country?

Hezbollah is known to hide out deep in caves, as well as Blended in with other citizens.  Conventional Weapons might not stop Those guided missiles from coming in soon enough.

 What is Israel supposed to do in such a situation? Just sit there and suffer major damage?

 

 


You don't start nuking people. Did the USA nuke Afghan, did the UK nuke Ireland, etc. 

 

Edited: 8/31/19 10:55 PM
6/13/09
Posts: 15363

We nuked Japan, and it wasn't even a matter of survival for us at the time. ^

In my view, these new guided missiles could create a threat to Israel's survival. Were that to happen, Israel would have every right to defend itself in any way necessary in my opinion. Just as any other country would.

 

Edited: 8/31/19 9:51 PM
5/1/16
Posts: 123
blood fist -

We nuked Japan, and it wasn't even a matter of survival for us at the time.

In my view, these new guided missiles could create a threat to Israel's survival. Were that to happen, Israel would have every right to defend itself in any way necessary in my opinion. Just as any other country would.

 

Current US policy is to not use or threaten the use of nukes against a non nuclear country . So the comparison to US and Afghanistan is kinda apple and oranges . If a major attack on Israel happens . They have the obligation to protect their people at whatever means necessary.

8/31/19 9:54 PM
12/28/04
Posts: 30996
blood fist - 

We nuked Japan, and it wasn't even a matter of survival for us at the time.

In my view, these new guided missiles could create a threat to Israel's survival. Were that to happen, Israel would have every right to defend itself in any way necessary in my opinion. Just as any other country would.

 


You nuked japan at the end of the greatest war in the history of mankind. And those nukes were fire crackers compared to what we have now. All I am saying is if they do fire nukes then they can have no complaints if they are nuked back. I also agree that is far more likely that Israel is the country to start the real aggression. 

8/31/19 9:56 PM
12/28/04
Posts: 30997
ChucksChin - 
blood fist -

We nuked Japan, and it wasn't even a matter of survival for us at the time.

In my view, these new guided missiles could create a threat to Israel's survival. Were that to happen, Israel would have every right to defend itself in any way necessary in my opinion. Just as any other country would.

 

Current US policy is to not use or threaten the use of nukes against a non nuclear country . So the comparison to US and Afghanistan is kinda apple and oranges . If a major attack on Israel happens . They have the obligation to protect their people at whatever means necessary.


Hes talking about exactly that, if they get it with a gps missle return fire with nukes. 

Edited: 8/31/19 10:08 PM
5/1/16
Posts: 124

I was agreeing with him and trying to explain why  brocks comparison wasn't relevant. Sorry if I didn't explain clearly . I'm not the best at communicating online . 

I should probably stick to what I know and that's weapon systems and aircraft. Not policy or politics. 

8/31/19 10:07 PM
6/13/09
Posts: 15365
Dirtywhiteboy - 
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Dirtywhiteboy - 

Calm down man.  A few guided rockets aren't going to take down Isreal. Would it be a bit of a game changer? sure, but they're not launching 100,000 missiles.  They would be flattened before they got the 10th rocket fired off, if they can even get that far. This shit will be stopped for the most part before it gets off the ground.  

 

Isreal calling out the Iranian generals on the ground was their way of letting Iran know that Isreal knows exactly what's going on and who they need to take out to stop this.  Iran knows if they attack Isreal, we will attack them and they would be fucked.  So Iran will back off and find another way to instigate the issue and shit will conitnue as normal. That's my prediction anyway.


I hope you're right man. Except we may not be talking about a 'few' guided missiles. They'll pile up thousands if Israel doesn't stop them.  If 20% get through and they are all bull's eyes, Israel is fucked.

It's astonishing what a cheap simple GPS will do though.


The problem here isn't these rockets we're talking about, I sreal will handle that I believe. The bigger issue is that as the technology gap narrows between the Isrealies and the mussies it will get more and more difficult to maintain the current state.  

Like brockswockshanetrain said above, it may become unsustainable at some point.  if iran would gtfo of the equation there probably could be some kind of peace made but as long as they keep meddling it will never happen. If they get stronger and more bold who knows what might happen.  


You start out by saying you believe Israel can handle these new guided missiles and will handle them.

I'm just curious as to how you think Israel would stop the missiles in an attack like that without sustaining a huge amount of damage to its cities and population centers.

Edited: 8/31/19 10:14 PM
5/10/08
Posts: 47284
blood fist - 
lionsoul -
blood fist - 
ChucksChin -

Between jammers , phalanx and missile defense systems most wouldn't get close . Of course some will but not an overwhelming amount . We can push a button and shutdown any satellite or use a certain plane that has been in space for a long time . If they had the tech to have terrain mapping navigation where the weapon directed itself instead of relying on outside sources like gps  it would be much harder to stop . 

I hope you are right about that.

 

Sure... but then be prepared to shut down GPS for everyone....

Hey soul. You were a prophet on this one. You brought it up a couple of years ago as a potential Danger as I recall.

You'll have to forgive me, since I am somewhat stoned on medical marijuana for back pain at the moment, but what do you mean about shutting down GPS for everyone. Is that what he's proposing ? to disable the GPS missiles systems.?

I don't think it is a "prophetic" issue at all.  And I have been saying this for at least over a decade.

I just predicted that eventually groups like Hezbollah would have access to precision missiles... and that when that happened, it would be a permanent game-changer in the region.

Israel's superiority (with Apache Helicopters, Tanks, F-16 fighter jets (and now F-35), etc.) would be rendered much less meaningful if Hezbollah (but especially Hamas) had the ability to target.  Unless, Israel were willing to wipe out huge population dense areas occupied by civilians.

If they could pick out a tall buiding in Tel-Aviv and hit it... that would permanently shift the balance and would represent the end of the modern day Israel.

The question wasn't if... but when.

The problem is how Israel will choose to deal with any future conflicts.  Any provocation (to Southern Lebanon or Syria or Iran) could invite loads of precision guided missiles. 

They will be boxed in.

And if there is a conflict and missiles rain on Tel-Aviv... it will be the end of modern day Israel, as many of the people who live their will not want to live under that kind of threat going forward.  Just imagine the tallest buildings (with people inside) wiped out.

Of course there will be some end to conflict in the short term and it may lead to a ground invasion again where Israel permanently occupies southern Lebanon...  but it will be a fucking mess.

On the GPS... I am not sure what he is specifically referring to.. but I would assume that if you are shutting down that capability in a given region that everyone who uses it in that area (i.e. Israel) would be affected.