OtherGround Forums Hezbollah getting precision guided missiles:Uh Oh

9/1/19 6:25 PM
5/10/08
Posts: 47289

This guy is trouble... basically Hezbollah's version of Netanyahu...

Edited: 9/1/19 6:51 PM
6/13/09
Posts: 15388
lionsoul -
blood fist - 
lionsoul - 
REALLYBIGRHINO - 

Israel constantly violates Lebanese airspace. They launced (a failed) drone attack in southern Lebanon last week. 

They cant even handle the Palestinians. There is no way they can handle Hezbollah. We saw how well the 06 war went when they tried to "disarm" them. 

Maybe they should stop acting like a rouge nation that does no abide by any international rules?

They are literally caged in the muslim world. I would be scared too if I lived in Israel. 

 

You say that... but Israel is also boxed in because they refuse to employ broad destructive strategies.

Israel could just become a rogue nation that says "fuck it" and employs massive destruction every time someone fucks with it... that would keep their enemies in check...

That is another strategy (but yes - that would mean the end to modern day Israel)...

 

lionsoul- I've never heard you have this much sympathy for Israel's position.

I think you know that Israel has had the bomb for over 50 years now, and never used it. Even in the '73 war when things looked desperate, it was not used. They have a no first use of atomic weapons policy if I am not mistaken. I wonder how much that would mean if the country was being destroyed by non-atomic means. 

 

 

 

 

I don't have a ton of sympathy for Israel's position given the history of its inception as well as its actions since.

That said, I can understand how difficult it is for a country to try and protect itself when it is bound by rules of engagement that are widely accepted in modern western society (and that does not included annihilating population centers as a result of terrorist actions).

This is a very difficult position to be in and there are no easy answers.  And it is all the more difficult when your adversaries utilize proxy forces to do their dirty work (i.e. Iran and Hezbollah).

I'm actually glad to hear that you don't have a ton of sympathy for Israel at this point. Things were getting a little too tepid. Now that you're back on the anti-israel side we can go through the same arguments that we have for the last 12 years or more.

BTW, did you see the post where I actually had to bring the blood fist  out of mothballs? I presented it as an award 2 flavorful.

But that guy better at least start reading posts and key linked articles, when he comes on each of my threads to attack me. Why should I waste my time when he doesn't even know what the fucking thread is about.?

I don't like to pull out the fist very much anymore. But it seems like a good time to do it.

 

lol

 

Edited: 9/1/19 6:49 PM
6/20/13
Posts: 9784
blood fist -
Looney Ronulan Paultard - 
blood fist -

Perhaps the best thing would be if Israel told Iran, right now, that setting up those precision missiles will not be tolerated. I'm not sure where those negotiation would lead. But as Winston Churchill liked to say, "jaw jaw is better than war war."

Sort of like when we told the Russians to get their missiles out of Cuba.

 

That is a Harold Macmillan quote.

 

Not exactly, young man. He basically stole it from Churchill.

Here's what happened:

https://winstonchurchill.org/resources/quotes/quotes-falsely-attributed/


'Jaw, jaw and war, war Jaw, jaw is better than war, war.'  Churchill, 1954, Washington. (Finest Hour 122, 15.)

Winston Churchill's official biographer, Sir Martin Gilbert, speaking of this quote, noted that Churchill actually said, 'Meeting jaw to jaw is better than war.' Four years later, during a visit to Australia, Harold Macmillan said the words usually--and wrongly--attributed to Churchill: "Jaw, jaw is better than war, war." Credit: Harold Macmillan.
 
^ So while MacMillan may have uttered the exact words, it was Churchill who said almost the exact same thing...years earlier. MacMillan essentially stole it from.
 
Nice try though.
 
 
 
 

Not the same quote. Accuracy is important in these matters. People have been attributing this to Churchil for years. 

Edited: 9/1/19 6:57 PM
5/10/08
Posts: 47290
blood fist - 
lionsoul -
blood fist - 
lionsoul - 
REALLYBIGRHINO - 

Israel constantly violates Lebanese airspace. They launced (a failed) drone attack in southern Lebanon last week. 

They cant even handle the Palestinians. There is no way they can handle Hezbollah. We saw how well the 06 war went when they tried to "disarm" them. 

Maybe they should stop acting like a rouge nation that does no abide by any international rules?

They are literally caged in the muslim world. I would be scared too if I lived in Israel. 

You say that... but Israel is also boxed in because they refuse to employ broad destructive strategies.

Israel could just become a rogue nation that says "fuck it" and employs massive destruction every time someone fucks with it... that would keep their enemies in check...

That is another strategy (but yes - that would mean the end to modern day Israel)...

lionsoul- I've never heard you have this much sympathy for Israel's position.

I think you know that Israel has had the bomb for over 50 years now, and never used it. Even in the '73 war when things looked desperate, it was not used. They have a no first use of atomic weapons policy if I am not mistaken. I wonder how much that would mean if the country was being destroyed by non-atomic means. 

I don't have a ton of sympathy for Israel's position given the history of its inception as well as its actions since.

That said, I can understand how difficult it is for a country to try and protect itself when it is bound by rules of engagement that are widely accepted in modern western society (and that does not included annihilating population centers as a result of terrorist actions).

This is a very difficult position to be in and there are no easy answers.  And it is all the more difficult when your adversaries utilize proxy forces to do their dirty work (i.e. Iran and Hezbollah).

I'm actually glad to hear that you don't have a ton of sympathy for Israel at this point. Things were getting a little too tepid. Now that you're back on the anti-israel side we can go through the same arguments that we have for the last 12 years or more.

BTW, did you see the post where I actually had to bring the blood fist  out of mothballs? I presented it as an award 2 flavorful.

But that guy better at least start reading posts and key linked articles, when he comes on each of my threads to attack me. Why should I waste my time when he doesn't even know what the fucking thread is about.?

I don't like to pull out the fist very much anymore. But it seems like a good time to do it.

 lol

"Things were getting a little too tepid. Now that you're back on the anti-israel side we can go through the same arguments that we have for the last 12 years or more."

Ha. I think I am less anti-Israel and more anti-Israeli lobby and anti-Israeli actions to influence US foreign policy in the region...

But given the history of the inception of Israel and their aggressive actions since (i.e. settlements, evictions, demolitions, unilateral "collective punishment", apartheid, etc.) hard not to be critical of them...

Yeah... I don't know too much about your beef with Flavorful... but he is accurate about Netanyahu's propaganda schtick on Iran for decades...

That said, I don't think it is as relevant here about the point you are making regarding precision missiles...

9/1/19 7:05 PM
12/26/05
Posts: 43016
BrocksSwockRanTrane_onShane -
CavemanDave - 
BrocksSwockRanTrane_onShane -
blood fist - 

Are you intentionally not getting it? 

Seriously. You seem to be missing the point no matter how clear people are trying to make it for you.

Israel will not sit there and allow their country to be completely destroyed or degraded by the incoming missiles. If they have no other way to stop the missiles, they will use whatever it takes.  Period.

That is the first job of any president or prime minister. To protect the people of the country. Do you at least get that?

Can't make it any clearer pal.

 

So would you of been fine with the UK nuking Ireland?

You mean Ireland now...

 

Or do you mean Ireland if an outside hostile force funded them and they started launching thousands of GPS guided rockets into parliament. Schools, banks, industry, etc?

 

 

...

Yea because in that case I'm pretty sure I'd understand.  Ireland would be taking the big L.


The IRA did have an outside hostile force funding them, the point being that Nukes are not an reasonable response to terrorist attacks. 

Ok, but that comment was made in response to the possibility that thousands of guided rockets would start pouring into Israel hitting specific targets.

 

If the IRA was both the politically elected leadership of Ireland, and began to launch thousands of GPS guided rockets into Israel, that would make your example relevant.

Edited: 9/1/19 7:12 PM
6/13/09
Posts: 15389

For lionsoul... I want to know if you saw the blood fist, and its use as a Veiled Threat?

9/1/19 7:17 PM
5/10/08
Posts: 47291
blood fist - 

For lionsoul... I want to know if you saw the blood fist, and its use as a Veiled Threat?


No... thought it was for fun...

But always enjoyable when you bring it out...

9/1/19 7:20 PM
6/13/09
Posts: 15390

Also, I'm not Championing Netanyahu either. He is a corrupt politician like the rest of them.

All I'm saying is that Netanyahu did not invent this new guided Missile Crisis as Mister flavorful hints at. I know he has cried wolf many times and been wrong many times, but this looks like a legit threat to me and several respected news sources as well.

 

9/1/19 7:24 PM
5/10/08
Posts: 47293
blood fist - 

Also, I'm not Championing Netanyahu either. He is a corrupt politician like the rest of them.

All I'm saying is that Netanyahu did not invent this new guided Missile Crisis as Mister flavorful hints at. I know he has cried wolf many times and been wrong many times, but this looks like a legit threat to me and several respected news sources as well.

 


It wouldn't be out of the question for Nasrallah to be full of shit...

But if I were Israel... this is the singular threat I would be most concerned about (i.e. making sure that precision missiles cannot get into the hands of Hezbollah).

9/1/19 7:41 PM
9/24/11
Posts: 3078

It might be worth Britain, France and the USA manning up and taking some responsibility for this.  Britain and France were the ones that convinced the Arabs to rise up against the Ottomans in World War I, and then fucked them over royally when it turned out we'd already decided what parts of the Arabian Peninsula were British and what ones French.

 

It's also worth sparing a thought for Iran's only democratically elected Government, but hey, if we can forget that, why couldn't they, especially that cheeky bugger Hohemni?

 

Then of course we went in to get rid of hand-chopping, religious tyrants and completely forgot to stop propping up the Sauds and providing them with military hardware.

 

Then there was the business of the nuclear warheads and missiles that we gave to Israel.

 

This shit-show was made in Britain, France and the USA.

Edited: 9/1/19 7:48 PM
6/13/09
Posts: 15391
lionsoul -
blood fist - 

Also, I'm not Championing Netanyahu either. He is a corrupt politician like the rest of them.

All I'm saying is that Netanyahu did not invent this new guided Missile Crisis as Mister flavorful hints at. I know he has cried wolf many times and been wrong many times, but this looks like a legit threat to me and several respected news sources as well.

 

 

It wouldn't be out of the question for Nasrallah to be full of shit...

But if I were Israel... this is the singular threat I would be most concerned about (i.e. making sure that precision missiles cannot get into the hands of Hezbollah).

Well, we agree on that. My strategy would be one very specific warning to Hezbollah 2 get that shit out of there. Or else. By such and such a date.

If that doesn't do it and Hezbollah goes on with their stupidity, it's hard to see any choice other than some sort of military action by Israel. Which of course could quickly lead to a much larger and very bloody conflagration.

I would say the Middle East is more of a Tinderbox than usual these days.

 

 

 

9/1/19 7:42 PM
9/24/11
Posts: 3079

As for Netanyahu, isn't that a dodgy '90's internet package?

9/1/19 7:45 PM
9/24/11
Posts: 3080
blood fist -
lionsoul -
blood fist - 

Also, I'm not Championing Netanyahu either. He is a corrupt politician like the rest of them.

All I'm saying is that Netanyahu did not invent this new guided Missile Crisis as Mister flavorful hints at. I know he has cried wolf many times and been wrong many times, but this looks like a legit threat to me and several respected news sources as well.

 

 

It wouldn't be out of the question for Nasrallah to be full of shit...

But if I were Israel... this is the singular threat I would be most concerned about (i.e. making sure that precision missiles cannot get into the hands of Hezbollah).

Well, we agree on that. My strategy would be one very specific warning to Hezbollah 2 get that shit out of there. Or else. By such and such a date.

If that doesn't do it and Hezbollah goes on with their stupidity, it's hard to see any choice other than some sort of military action by Israel.

 

 

They've been watching their kids being bombed into oblivion for years.  There's nothing for them to lose, which makes them pretty much impossible to intimidate.

9/1/19 7:53 PM
6/13/09
Posts: 15392
salligori -
blood fist -
lionsoul -
blood fist - 

Also, I'm not Championing Netanyahu either. He is a corrupt politician like the rest of them.

All I'm saying is that Netanyahu did not invent this new guided Missile Crisis as Mister flavorful hints at. I know he has cried wolf many times and been wrong many times, but this looks like a legit threat to me and several respected news sources as well.

 

 

It wouldn't be out of the question for Nasrallah to be full of shit...

But if I were Israel... this is the singular threat I would be most concerned about (i.e. making sure that precision missiles cannot get into the hands of Hezbollah).

Well, we agree on that. My strategy would be one very specific warning to Hezbollah 2 get that shit out of there. Or else. By such and such a date.

If that doesn't do it and Hezbollah goes on with their stupidity, it's hard to see any choice other than some sort of military action by Israel.

 

 

They've been watching their kids being bombed into oblivion for years.  There's nothing for them to lose, which makes them pretty much impossible to intimidate.

You are aware, I hope, that a lot of Israelis have been bombed into Oblivion as well in countless acts of Terror by the Palestinian terrorists.

Anyway, to your point, if Hezbollah is not intimidated and proceeds ahead with these new Precision missiles then we are looking at some kind of a serious confrontation.

 

9/1/19 7:53 PM
9/24/11
Posts: 3081
Soul Gravy -
BrocksSwockRanTrane_onShane - 
Soul Gravy - 
BrocksSwockRanTrane_onShane - 
blood fist - 
lionsoul - 

^^^^ Would also likely begin a broader war with Iran where we (the USA) would bomb the shit out of military targets in Tehran...

Sounds like a nightmare scenario...


 I would love for us to stay out of it even if Iran gets drawn in. But short of using nukes, I'm not sure Israel can handle Hezbollah and Iran at the same time.


Best think to do TBH. There will never be peace in that area while the west interfears, let them sort it out and to the winner the spoils. Its a harsh but true fact that pretty much every stable region is born that way. 


There will never be peace in that area while there is Islam. Call the problem by its true name and don't try to blame the West.

The problem is that a the west decided to steal land and move a bunch of jews into the heart of islam. I am pretty sure if the roles were reversed and the muslims kicked everyone out of, and took over, DC, you would be equally as pissed. 

But that boat has sailed, IMO its time the west stopped messing with other people shit. Leave them to it and let them sort it out. 


No one stole any land. Almost EVERYONE has a better claim to that land than Islam. It was British land prior to its current status, and before that it was Christian land, before that it was Roman land, before that it was Jewish land. Islam has no legitimate claim to it.

And the problem with the West leaving everyone else alone is that so few of the ones left alone are able to manage anything for themselves.

That's very interesting.  How exactly did Britain acquire land several thousand miles away from our borders?  As an American, part of the country who threw off the yoke of British tyranny, even you of British descent fought against our despotic regime in the 1770's.  You of all people should know how the Empire operated.

 

And yes, we did steal the land.  We actually promised the Arabs their own self determination if they rose up against the Ottoman Empire.

 

If the British contingent who colonised the New World wouldn't even tolerate British hegemony, then why the fuck would anyone else?

9/1/19 7:56 PM
9/24/11
Posts: 3082
blood fist -
salligori -
blood fist -
lionsoul -
blood fist - 

Also, I'm not Championing Netanyahu either. He is a corrupt politician like the rest of them.

All I'm saying is that Netanyahu did not invent this new guided Missile Crisis as Mister flavorful hints at. I know he has cried wolf many times and been wrong many times, but this looks like a legit threat to me and several respected news sources as well.

 

 

It wouldn't be out of the question for Nasrallah to be full of shit...

But if I were Israel... this is the singular threat I would be most concerned about (i.e. making sure that precision missiles cannot get into the hands of Hezbollah).

Well, we agree on that. My strategy would be one very specific warning to Hezbollah 2 get that shit out of there. Or else. By such and such a date.

If that doesn't do it and Hezbollah goes on with their stupidity, it's hard to see any choice other than some sort of military action by Israel.

 

 

They've been watching their kids being bombed into oblivion for years.  There's nothing for them to lose, which makes them pretty much impossible to intimidate.

You are aware, I hope, that a lot of Israelis have been bombed into Oblivion as well in countless acts of Terror by the Palestinian terrorists.

Anyway, to your point, if Hezbollah is not intimidated and proceeds ahead with these new Precision missiles then we are looking at some kind of a serious confrontation.

 

Yeah, that eleven year old girl with the glorified firework put up a hell of a fight.  You do know that 27 Israeli civilians have been killed by Palestinain fireworks in the last 15 years?  That's less than some of your school shootings.   Best you bomb all your own schools and root these rodents out.

9/1/19 8:00 PM
9/24/11
Posts: 3083
Soul Gravy -
BrocksSwockRanTrane_onShane - 
blood fist - 
BrocksSwockRanTrane_onShane - 
blood fist - 
BrocksSwockRanTrane_onShane - 

Of all the bits of land to steal who on earth though this would be a good idea...

Image result for religion map islam


I'm not sure steal is the appropriate word. The UN gave Israel the right to exist as a state. The UN also offered the Arabs (Pals) half the land for their own state. They refused the offer (which most of them now regret) and instead tried to wipe Israel out.with the help of all the surrounding Arab countries, . The outcome is well-known.

But that is such a completely different topic, I don't want to get into it.

It's a WHOLE different can of worms than the alarming shit that's taking place today.

 


People were, and still are being, forcibly removed from their land and homes which was then given to others. If that is not stealing I don't know what is.  


Well, when you figure out how to deal with an implacable population of people who are dedicated to your extermination and love using violence to reach that goal,,, well, you just let me know, OK? 

In the meantime, I'm starting to see what your real beliefs are. 

I'd prefer it if you woudn't try to highjack the thread and turn it into a platform for your anti-Israel views not related to the subject of the thread..Thanks


What you don't do is steal peoples land, you can try an dress it up all you like but that is EXACTLY what it was. Furthermore, if you are not going to try to understand the roots of the issue how on earth do you ever expect to end it?

Pop quiz question for you, what city do the State of Palestine consider to be their capital city? This is literally like the UN kicking the Americans out of, and moving the jews into, DC. Then wondering why Americans are pissed off. 

Like I said before that ship has sailed and now there is no changing that, but you have to at least understand the very real and valid grievances that Palestine has here and look for a real solution; unless you are happy with the lets just nuke everyone approach. There needs a be a situation like Northern Ireland, free movement, duel nationalities, no boarders etc. Its the only way this can work in the long term. 

 


Again, it is not and was never the Palestinians' land. It is the West's land to do with as they please, and they have chosen to give it to Israel. Palestinians have no legitimate grievances.

So in fifty years when China is the superpower and they decide South Korea is part of China, or Japan or Taiwan, then we all have to fuck off because of their historic claims and the people who reside their have to suck it up as they are bombed into extinction.

 

Why is it America have permanent bases in the region?

9/1/19 8:06 PM
9/24/11
Posts: 3084
blood fist -
salligori -
blood fist -
lionsoul -
blood fist - 

Also, I'm not Championing Netanyahu either. He is a corrupt politician like the rest of them.

All I'm saying is that Netanyahu did not invent this new guided Missile Crisis as Mister flavorful hints at. I know he has cried wolf many times and been wrong many times, but this looks like a legit threat to me and several respected news sources as well.

 

 

It wouldn't be out of the question for Nasrallah to be full of shit...

But if I were Israel... this is the singular threat I would be most concerned about (i.e. making sure that precision missiles cannot get into the hands of Hezbollah).

Well, we agree on that. My strategy would be one very specific warning to Hezbollah 2 get that shit out of there. Or else. By such and such a date.

If that doesn't do it and Hezbollah goes on with their stupidity, it's hard to see any choice other than some sort of military action by Israel.

 

 

They've been watching their kids being bombed into oblivion for years.  There's nothing for them to lose, which makes them pretty much impossible to intimidate.

You are aware, I hope, that a lot of Israelis have been bombed into Oblivion as well in countless acts of Terror by the Palestinian terrorists.

Anyway, to your point, if Hezbollah is not intimidated and proceeds ahead with these new Precision missiles then we are looking at some kind of a serious confrontation.

 

Yeah.  That's my argument.  It's maybe time to get these people round the table and try to find some kind of realistic solution that doesn't involve everyone in the Middle East, the Israelis included, being blasted into the stone age.

Edited: 9/1/19 8:09 PM
9/24/11
Posts: 3085

And yes, I am aware that 27 Israeli civilions have been killed by Palestinian missiles in the last fifteen years.  As I said, you have single high school shootings that rival that and seem to be quite happy to do fuck-all about them.

 

Although maybe that's just because they were shot up by white Jews.

9/1/19 8:09 PM
12/28/04
Posts: 31021
Soul Gravy -
BrocksSwockRanTrane_onShane - 
Soul Gravy - 
BrocksSwockRanTrane_onShane - 
blood fist - 
lionsoul - 

^^^^ Would also likely begin a broader war with Iran where we (the USA) would bomb the shit out of military targets in Tehran...

Sounds like a nightmare scenario...


 I would love for us to stay out of it even if Iran gets drawn in. But short of using nukes, I'm not sure Israel can handle Hezbollah and Iran at the same time.


Best think to do TBH. There will never be peace in that area while the west interfears, let them sort it out and to the winner the spoils. Its a harsh but true fact that pretty much every stable region is born that way. 


There will never be peace in that area while there is Islam. Call the problem by its true name and don't try to blame the West.

The problem is that a the west decided to steal land and move a bunch of jews into the heart of islam. I am pretty sure if the roles were reversed and the muslims kicked everyone out of, and took over, DC, you would be equally as pissed. 

But that boat has sailed, IMO its time the west stopped messing with other people shit. Leave them to it and let them sort it out. 


No one stole any land. Almost EVERYONE has a better claim to that land than Islam. It was British land prior to its current status, and before that it was Christian land, before that it was Roman land, before that it was Jewish land. Islam has no legitimate claim to it.

And the problem with the West leaving everyone else alone is that so few of the ones left alone are able to manage anything for themselves.

This should not be a religious thing, that is the bloody problem.

9/1/19 8:11 PM
9/24/11
Posts: 3086

"It was British land prior to its current status..."

 

Yeah.  So is the USA.  Kneel before your Queen you traitorous scum.

9/1/19 8:41 PM
8/15/07
Posts: 16935
salligori - 
Soul Gravy -
BrocksSwockRanTrane_onShane - 
Soul Gravy - 
BrocksSwockRanTrane_onShane - 
blood fist - 
lionsoul - 

^^^^ Would also likely begin a broader war with Iran where we (the USA) would bomb the shit out of military targets in Tehran...

Sounds like a nightmare scenario...


 I would love for us to stay out of it even if Iran gets drawn in. But short of using nukes, I'm not sure Israel can handle Hezbollah and Iran at the same time.


Best think to do TBH. There will never be peace in that area while the west interfears, let them sort it out and to the winner the spoils. Its a harsh but true fact that pretty much every stable region is born that way. 


There will never be peace in that area while there is Islam. Call the problem by its true name and don't try to blame the West.

The problem is that a the west decided to steal land and move a bunch of jews into the heart of islam. I am pretty sure if the roles were reversed and the muslims kicked everyone out of, and took over, DC, you would be equally as pissed. 

But that boat has sailed, IMO its time the west stopped messing with other people shit. Leave them to it and let them sort it out. 


No one stole any land. Almost EVERYONE has a better claim to that land than Islam. It was British land prior to its current status, and before that it was Christian land, before that it was Roman land, before that it was Jewish land. Islam has no legitimate claim to it.

And the problem with the West leaving everyone else alone is that so few of the ones left alone are able to manage anything for themselves.

That's very interesting.  How exactly did Britain acquire land several thousand miles away from our borders?  As an American, part of the country who threw off the yoke of British tyranny, even you of British descent fought against our despotic regime in the 1770's.  You of all people should know how the Empire operated.

 

And yes, we did steal the land.  We actually promised the Arabs their own self determination if they rose up against the Ottoman Empire.

 

If the British contingent who colonised the New World wouldn't even tolerate British hegemony, then why the fuck would anyone else?


As an American whose ancestors threw off the yoke of British rule way back when, I can still recognize the British Empire as the finest example of diplomacy and government that has existed since the Romans. Winning our freedom was the best thing we could have done. Staying part of the British Empire was a close second.

And Arabs do not deserve self-determination over land that was the West's long before it was theirs.
9/1/19 8:47 PM
9/24/11
Posts: 3087
Soul Gravy - 
salligori - 
Soul Gravy -
BrocksSwockRanTrane_onShane - 
Soul Gravy - 
BrocksSwockRanTrane_onShane - 
blood fist - 
lionsoul - 

^^^^ Would also likely begin a broader war with Iran where we (the USA) would bomb the shit out of military targets in Tehran...

Sounds like a nightmare scenario...


 I would love for us to stay out of it even if Iran gets drawn in. But short of using nukes, I'm not sure Israel can handle Hezbollah and Iran at the same time.


Best think to do TBH. There will never be peace in that area while the west interfears, let them sort it out and to the winner the spoils. Its a harsh but true fact that pretty much every stable region is born that way. 


There will never be peace in that area while there is Islam. Call the problem by its true name and don't try to blame the West.

The problem is that a the west decided to steal land and move a bunch of jews into the heart of islam. I am pretty sure if the roles were reversed and the muslims kicked everyone out of, and took over, DC, you would be equally as pissed. 

But that boat has sailed, IMO its time the west stopped messing with other people shit. Leave them to it and let them sort it out. 


No one stole any land. Almost EVERYONE has a better claim to that land than Islam. It was British land prior to its current status, and before that it was Christian land, before that it was Roman land, before that it was Jewish land. Islam has no legitimate claim to it.

And the problem with the West leaving everyone else alone is that so few of the ones left alone are able to manage anything for themselves.

That's very interesting.  How exactly did Britain acquire land several thousand miles away from our borders?  As an American, part of the country who threw off the yoke of British tyranny, even you of British descent fought against our despotic regime in the 1770's.  You of all people should know how the Empire operated.

 

And yes, we did steal the land.  We actually promised the Arabs their own self determination if they rose up against the Ottoman Empire.

 

If the British contingent who colonised the New World wouldn't even tolerate British hegemony, then why the fuck would anyone else?


As an American whose ancestors threw off the yoke of British rule way back when, I can still recognize the British Empire as the finest example of diplomacy and government that has existed since the Romans. Winning our freedom was the best thing we could have done. Staying part of the British Empire was a close second.

And Arabs do not deserve self-determination over land that was the West's long before it was theirs.

If the British system is a shining example of democracy given the fucking shit-show occurring in Britain right now, I'd hate to see what a corrupt oligarchy in Britain would actually look like.

You can tell when a British politician is lying. Their lips start moving.
9/1/19 8:49 PM
8/15/07
Posts: 16936
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Of all the bits of land to steal who on earth though this would be a good idea...

Image result for religion map islam


I'm not sure steal is the appropriate word. The UN gave Israel the right to exist as a state. The UN also offered the Arabs (Pals) half the land for their own state. They refused the offer (which most of them now regret) and instead tried to wipe Israel out.with the help of all the surrounding Arab countries, . The outcome is well-known.

But that is such a completely different topic, I don't want to get into it.

It's a WHOLE different can of worms than the alarming shit that's taking place today.

 


People were, and still are being, forcibly removed from their land and homes which was then given to others. If that is not stealing I don't know what is.  


Well, when you figure out how to deal with an implacable population of people who are dedicated to your extermination and love using violence to reach that goal,,, well, you just let me know, OK? 

In the meantime, I'm starting to see what your real beliefs are. 

I'd prefer it if you woudn't try to highjack the thread and turn it into a platform for your anti-Israel views not related to the subject of the thread..Thanks


What you don't do is steal peoples land, you can try an dress it up all you like but that is EXACTLY what it was. Furthermore, if you are not going to try to understand the roots of the issue how on earth do you ever expect to end it?

Pop quiz question for you, what city do the State of Palestine consider to be their capital city? This is literally like the UN kicking the Americans out of, and moving the jews into, DC. Then wondering why Americans are pissed off. 

Like I said before that ship has sailed and now there is no changing that, but you have to at least understand the very real and valid grievances that Palestine has here and look for a real solution; unless you are happy with the lets just nuke everyone approach. There needs a be a situation like Northern Ireland, free movement, duel nationalities, no boarders etc. Its the only way this can work in the long term. 

 


Again, it is not and was never the Palestinians' land. It is the West's land to do with as they please, and they have chosen to give it to Israel. Palestinians have no legitimate grievances.

So in fifty years when China is the superpower and they decide South Korea is part of China, or Japan or Taiwan, then we all have to fuck off because of their historic claims and the people who reside their have to suck it up as they are bombed into extinction.

 

Why is it America have permanent bases in the region?


Why would I care what China thinks?

I think we're coming at this from two different perspectives. Let me lay it all out.

1. I think America, Britain and the West should make the big decisions of the world.
2. What is right for American and the West to do is not necessarily right for anyone else to do.
3. When a nation's self-interest runs contrary to the self-interest of America and the West, then the correct choice is the one that benefits America and the West.

Long story short, I do not extend the right of historical privilege to China.
9/1/19 8:50 PM
9/24/11
Posts: 3088

"And Arabs do not deserve self-determination over land that was the West's long before it was theirs."

In what fucking World did that land ever belong to the West, by which, to be frank, you mean the British Empire? We went over there in World War I and promised them self determination if they rose up against the Ottomans. We have more claim on the USA than we do on the Middle East, which is still just the new capital, shall we say the Constantinople, of the British manifest destiny and global hegemony.