OtherGround Forums Hong Kong general strike begins, shakes society

8/15/19 2:14 PM
12/23/05
Posts: 98
TheRoguewrestler -
fightingfit - 

My Father is from HK , I am of HK Chinese descent and speak native level Cantonese.

Most definitely , the protest are anti Communists but I would not say they are Capitalist more FREE MARKET, Hk Chinese hate oligopolies as much as Commies. Yes Croney Capitalism = Communism , same concept different label. HK are not stupid, they have highest average IQ in the world !


But they still shit in the street amiright?

 

Amiright ? What's that ? Is that sone sort of " wetback lingo " ?  LOL

 

Amiright amiright amiright amiriiiiight iiiight iiight , here we go ... Your father must have been one dumb turd to produce a functional illiterate like you. LOL

8/15/19 2:55 PM
2/9/12
Posts: 5672
fightingfit -

My Father is from HK , I am of HK Chinese descent and speak native level Cantonese.

Most definitely , the protest are anti Communists but I would not say they are Capitalist more FREE MARKET, Hk Chinese hate oligopolies as much as Commies. Yes Croney Capitalism = Communism , same concept different label. HK are not stupid, they have highest average IQ in the world !

Nice post count

8/22/19 9:21 PM
4/27/14
Posts: 20746

Good article on how the Hong Kong anticom protesters are using leaderless resistance against the communists:

https://quillette.com/2019/08/19/how-the-hong-kong-protestors-tactical-brilliance-backed-beijing-into-a-corner/

8/22/19 9:40 PM
9/18/02
Posts: 2916

Fightingfit


What do you believe is going to happen?

Will things calm down ala « Umbrella » protests? (I was in Hong Kong during the protests)

Thank you.

8/26/19 9:18 PM
2/4/06
Posts: 11886

 

8/26/19 9:34 PM
10/19/14
Posts: 800
Proteus The Invincible -
TheDorkKnight -

In. Sad to see that they think they need a socialist structure in order to aucceed. T rading one shitty system of gov for another

While a general strike is a step in the direction of workers' rule--i.e., socialism--it doesn't necessarily mean that there is a widespread, conscious sentiment among the workers in favour of socialism. On the contrary, general strikes often occur without any conscious leadership at all. It is in the instincts of the working class when it is under attack to paralyse society with generalised work stoppages. This is the basic means of workers' struggle, a reflex of the class that requires no instruction or initiative from leaders.

 

The key significance of the general strike is that it poses the question of power. It is a showing of strength of the working class that shuts down society and reveals that it is the workers, not the capitalists, who make society run. However, while revealing this to be the case poses the question of power, it does not answer it.

 

It isn't enough for the workers to simply shut down the economy and expose the impotence of their rulers. In fact, the capitalists, with all their hoarded wealth and resources, have the ability to wait out any such labour stoppages and resume their offensive against the workers later. In order for the workers to defeat their rulers, the general strike must be transcended. Once society's production and distribution has been paralysed, it must then be resumed under the direction of the workers and to the exclusion of the capitalist ruling class. The capitalists cannot be allowed to sit upon their wealth and wait out the general strike: they must have their property actively expropriated and put to use in a conscious plan of production.

 

Only in this way can the question of power posed by the general strike be answered. Either the working class will expropriate the capitalists and assert itself as the new power, or the capitalist class will recover from the strike and reassert its own power. It is this higher step of expropriating the capitalists and running the economy without them that requires not merely the instinctive reflexes of the working class, but conscious planning from an elected and organised leadership, i.e., a socialist leadership carrying out a socialist program. This socialist leadership is what the movement of the Hong Kong workers is missing. Without it, Hong Kong will be crushed.

My god you try to come off as smart so fucking hard, and utterly fail every time.

8/26/19 9:46 PM
2/4/06
Posts: 22215
RichardSteel -
Proteus The Invincible -
TheDorkKnight -

In. Sad to see that they think they need a socialist structure in order to aucceed. T rading one shitty system of gov for another

While a general strike is a step in the direction of workers' rule--i.e., socialism--it doesn't necessarily mean that there is a widespread, conscious sentiment among the workers in favour of socialism. On the contrary, general strikes often occur without any conscious leadership at all. It is in the instincts of the working class when it is under attack to paralyse society with generalised work stoppages. This is the basic means of workers' struggle, a reflex of the class that requires no instruction or initiative from leaders.

 

The key significance of the general strike is that it poses the question of power. It is a showing of strength of the working class that shuts down society and reveals that it is the workers, not the capitalists, who make society run. However, while revealing this to be the case poses the question of power, it does not answer it.

 

It isn't enough for the workers to simply shut down the economy and expose the impotence of their rulers. In fact, the capitalists, with all their hoarded wealth and resources, have the ability to wait out any such labour stoppages and resume their offensive against the workers later. In order for the workers to defeat their rulers, the general strike must be transcended. Once society's production and distribution has been paralysed, it must then be resumed under the direction of the workers and to the exclusion of the capitalist ruling class. The capitalists cannot be allowed to sit upon their wealth and wait out the general strike: they must have their property actively expropriated and put to use in a conscious plan of production.

 

Only in this way can the question of power posed by the general strike be answered. Either the working class will expropriate the capitalists and assert itself as the new power, or the capitalist class will recover from the strike and reassert its own power. It is this higher step of expropriating the capitalists and running the economy without them that requires not merely the instinctive reflexes of the working class, but conscious planning from an elected and organised leadership, i.e., a socialist leadership carrying out a socialist program. This socialist leadership is what the movement of the Hong Kong workers is missing. Without it, Hong Kong will be crushed.

My god you try to come off as smart so fucking hard, and utterly fail every time.

I'm sure he is some what smart. He's absolutely college educated. I've never met a Communist with a factory job, or calluses on his hands.

Edited: 9/8/19 9:16 PM
3/11/11
Posts: 4322

The below article discusses the withdrawal of the Hong Kong extradition bill, the increasing repression deployed by the Hong Kong ruling class and its overall strategy of defeating the masses, as well as the direction the movement must take from here on out if it wishes to succeed.

 

In short, the workers and poor of Hong Kong will be crushed if they allow the current mess of liberals and "democrats" at the head of the movement to remain in charge. These people are anti-working class interlopers who will leave the toiling masses defenceless against the attacks of Chinese capital.

 

Hong Kong: extradition bill withdrawn – class struggle must continue!

The mass movement in Hong Kong has just won its key demand – the withdrawal of the hated extradition bill that would allow anyone the Beijing government suspects of criminality to be extradited to the mainland. But none of the other four demands, such as for an independent investigation into police brutality, have been won.

 

Hong Kongers remain without universal suffrage in one of the most unequal places in the world. This movement (and the state's uncompromising reaction to it) has transformed Hong Kong to such an extent that it is hard to imagine how the situation can be resolved and the status quo being restored. The movement must continue until the government is decisively defeated.

 

Police brutality

From the beginning of the movement, severe repression from the police has shocked and provoked Hong Kongers. In the last two weeks this has been stepped up, in an attempt to further provoke, divide and weaken the movement.

 

But the sustained nature of this campaign of police violence, and especially its recent escalation, has completely undermined popular illusions in the police and the state. They are now despised by millions, seen for what they really are: a gang of heavily armed men who exist to protect the property of the super-rich and maintain order on their terms.

 

[...]

 

Provocation

The strategy of the regime is to utilise the disorganisation of the movement to divide it. It knows there is a hardcore of protesters ready to take dramatic and dangerous direct action which, in itself, is impotent, such as the smashing up of the Legco (Hong Kong's parliament).

 

The authorities hope that by provoking such actions, the hardcore will isolate themselves, justifying a further intensification of repression and the movement's exhaustion.

 

For these reasons, on Friday 30 August, Joshua Wong and Agnes Chow, high-profile protesters and leaders of the Demosisto party, along with Legco members Jeremy Tam and Au Nok-hin, were arrested in broad daylight. Another prominent protester who was arrested, Jimmy Sham Tsz-kit, was physically assaulted in the process.

 

Unfortunately, the provocation seemed to work. Rather than using the arrests as the pretext to press ahead with the planned mass protest on the Saturday, the movement's leaders in the Civil Human Rights Front cancelled the protest. As a result, a far smaller group of a few hundred hardcore protesters were left to themselves.

 

Either out of frustration or in an attempt to inject some radicalism into the now small protest, they proceeded to surround the police station in Wan Chai and throw molotov cocktails at it. The police responded by spraying them with blue ink from their new cannons, and then launched the indiscriminate attack in Prince Edward station mentioned above.

 

The danger of liberalism

These radical but fruitless actions are a product of the liberal and disorganised leadership of the movement. In truth, it would be far more radical – and effective – to organise the movement on a class basis. This would mean building for a powerful general strike, for which the mood is clearly present. This would also give the movement a more structured and disciplined character, because in the building of this strike workers and students should call mass meetings and elect strike committees to coordinate it and prevent reckless and impotent direct action taking place.

 

Migrant workers need to be included in the struggle

A cosmopolitan city, Hong Kong is home to over 385,000 migrant workers, most of whom hail from the Philippines and Indonesia and work as domestic helpers. While contributing to over 3.9 percent of Hong Kong's GDP, these workers are nevertheless extremely oppressed by their employers, facing bullying and sexual harassment, and live in abject conditions. According to Hong Kong Free Press, only 18 percent of migrant workers have a bank account and 85 percent are in high levels of debt.

 

The purely liberal democratic demands of the present movement are unable to address the capitalist social contradictions from which the recent explosion arose, let alone the needs of oppressed migrant workers. However, the pressure of events is also pushing the migrant workers to take a stance. On 28 August, the Filipino Migrant Workers' Union in Hong Kong announced that many employers have been trying to take advantage of the unrest and pressure migrant workers to forgo their already minuscule rest days. The Indonesian Migrant Workers' Union also explained that many workers found it hard to adjust to the new schedules demanded of them from the employers.

 

This is an important section of the working class in Hong Kong that, with a consistent socialist leadership, can be won over to the present struggle with a fighting programme that applies to them as well. Including this section of the working class also opens the way to spread the class struggle into Southeast Asia and could deal an extra blow to Chinese imperialism's interests and enhance the appeal of the entire movement. For example, as the right-wing Filipino president visited China seeking to lean on Chinese capital to enhance the rule of the bourgeoisie in the Philippines, a Filipino trade union declared their solidarity with the Anti-Extradition movement on their fourth Congress in late August.

 

The movement must clearly include the demands of migrant workers as part of a fighting socialist programme that benefits all workers equally. If such demands are energetically put forward and thus attract the support of migrant workers, then the class nature of this movement would be greatly enhanced, and in turn show the workers on the mainland that this is a class struggle worth joining. This would also explode the one-sided coverage by the pro-CCP media that seeks to divide the Hong Kong and mainland working class. Including the migrant workers' struggle also means the entire movement must break with their bourgeois or petit-bourgeois employers, who may at present insert themselves into the struggle against the extradition bill.

 

The full article can be read using the link below:

https://www.marxist.com/hong-kong-extradition-bill-withdrawn.htm

9/4/19 8:52 PM
4/27/14
Posts: 20874

Marxists created this socialist nightmare in HK, Proteus - why would we listen to their nonsense about how to correct it?

9/4/19 8:54 PM
4/27/14
Posts: 20875

The anti-coms in Hong Kong have all downloaded Mesh, a messaging app that doesn't rely on the Internet but uses a bluetooth network to allow them to communicate without the commies listening in. (Would also be handy in a big natural disaster where the Internet goes down to communicate with friends and family.)

9/4/19 9:04 PM
1/9/02
Posts: 49536
The Stewed Owl -

The anti-coms in Hong Kong have all downloaded Mesh, a messaging app that doesn't rely on the Internet but uses a bluetooth network to allow them to communicate without the commies listening in. (Would also be handy in a big natural disaster where the Internet goes down to communicate with friends and family.)

i love them

 

all of them

9/4/19 9:19 PM
10/16/10
Posts: 28499
gregbrady - 
The Stewed Owl -

The anti-coms in Hong Kong have all downloaded Mesh, a messaging app that doesn't rely on the Internet but uses a bluetooth network to allow them to communicate without the commies listening in. (Would also be handy in a big natural disaster where the Internet goes down to communicate with friends and family.)

i love them

 

all of them


That is really cool. Hadn't read that before.
Edited: 9/4/19 10:58 PM
4/27/14
Posts: 20876
Stache - 
gregbrady - 
The Stewed Owl -

The anti-coms in Hong Kong have all downloaded Mesh, a messaging app that doesn't rely on the Internet but uses a bluetooth network to allow them to communicate without the commies listening in. (Would also be handy in a big natural disaster where the Internet goes down to communicate with friends and family.)

i love them

 

all of them


That is really cool. Hadn't read that before.

Sorry, it's called Firechat, not Mesh. 

https://www.businessinsider.com/firechat-the-app-hong-kong-uses-to-organize-protests-2014-9

 

9/4/19 11:08 PM
10/16/10
Posts: 28504
The Stewed Owl - 
Stache - 
gregbrady - 
The Stewed Owl -

The anti-coms in Hong Kong have all downloaded Mesh, a messaging app that doesn't rely on the Internet but uses a bluetooth network to allow them to communicate without the commies listening in. (Would also be handy in a big natural disaster where the Internet goes down to communicate with friends and family.)

i love them

 

all of them


That is really cool. Hadn't read that before.

Sorry, it's called Firechat, not Mesh. 

https://www.businessinsider.com/firechat-the-app-hong-kong-uses-to-organize-protests-2014-9

 


Probably the smartest large group of protesters we've ever seen.
9/4/19 11:15 PM
4/27/14
Posts: 20878

Apparently, two mesh apps are in use: Bridgefy is another: https://www.forbes.com/sites/johnkoetsier/2019/09/02/hong-kong-protestors-using-mesh-messaging-app-china-cant-block-usage-up-3685/#43e9753f135a

Edited: 9/4/19 11:18 PM
4/27/14
Posts: 20879

Michael Yon on where they are at now:

 

Hong Kong: Category 1 phase of insurgency -- will it go beyond this? I do not know. And so I keep watching and listening, and going to protests, to keep finger on the pulse.

Some quick, unedited thoughts before I hit the streets:

I will say with confidence: we are witnessing the very first tendrils on Cat 1 insurgency. (To use the hurricane scale 1-5, with 5 being something like full-blown Iraq between roughly 2004-2007).

At this point, I peg inflection from general civil unrest to front edge of insurgency on about 01 July 2019, at LegCo break-in. I was there that night live streaming. At first I did not recognize this as symptomatic of insurgency -- holding doubt that it might have held elements of false flag operation.

But now, with more information, I recognized LegCo break-in as the first definitive symptom of insurgency. Not just protest. Not just civil unrest. But insurgency.

In a nutshell:

1) Protest phase generally is simple and specific, such as "kill the extradition bill." Very specific. Simple. (People are growling.)

2) General Civil Unrest is beyond. Nutshell, "Hey government! You are bad and need to do better!" In other words, no longer just talking about the bill, but that the government itself needs to shape up. (People are snarling -- showing teeth.)

3) Insurgency: Nutshell, "Hey, government. You are illegitimate. Illegal. Not my master. You must go!" (People no longer growling and snarling. They start to nip and bite. Draw a little pain.)

INSURGENCY in a nutshell

Cat 1: Nipping and still snarling. Relatively minor economic attacks such as short closures of airport and MTR stations. Roads. Sides dehumanizing each other -- calling each other dogs, roaches, etc. This is precursor to killing. (We are here right now. At lowest end of Cat 1. Just starting minor insurgency.)

I HEAR DEHUMANIZATION INCREASING FROM BEIJING, FROM HONG KONG POLICE, AND FROM PROTESTORS. This is a major warning sign. Do not ignore this.

Cat 2 Economic damage increases. Dehumanization increases in preparation for economic, political, and physical combat. Killing begins.

Cat 3 Areas of country become dangerous for police -- people start dying in increasing numbers. Arson attacks. More. Substantial outflow of citizens to Taiwan, Japan, USA, Canada, Australia, Thailand, etc.

Direct attacks by or on PLA. Probably both.

Police and citizens regularly killing each other. Small police units overrun and weapons stolen.

Hospitals become increasingly contested area. Doctors without borders, etc, start coming in and protesting about human rights. Insurgents plea for outside medical help of medics/doctors from abroad.

Use of explosives and arson becomes normal and increases.

Triad and other opportunistic elements are uncorked to commit crime waves that can be mistaken for war, but really are just crimes such as bank robbery. Civil war to some degree. Ethnic and other organic fissures widen.

Many police quit for fear for families and self.

Tourism dries up.

Dangerous to walk streets at night in some areas.

Journalists targeted and often no idea who killed what journalist and for what reason.

Cat 4 Open battles for control of turf. Very kinetic. Civil war increases. Police are limited and must move only in large units. Very dangerous to travel.

Cat 5 Like Iraq -- all out war. Politicians assassinated. Police in total fear for lives. Police stations overrun. Areas of country off limits to police. All elements of government legitimacy under attack.

Everyone loses, but someone finally wins.

I have no idea if this will even go to Cat 2-3. Today, we are at bottom end of Cat 1 and building steam.

And so, when I go to protests, it is not to take pictures. I am checking the patient. Hong Kong is becoming sicker.

USA and others MUST apply pressure on Beijing to back off. Meet all demands of protestors immediately. Turn off the gas. Now.

Consequences of mistakes at this point can be severe.Michael Yon on where the protestors are at now:
 
9/5/19 12:20 AM
1/9/02
Posts: 49542

the withdrawal of the extradition bill is way too little way too late. the mainland puppetmasters waited too long to give their approval.

 

it would be horrible to have a guillotine hanging over your head like they do in 2047.

 

its kind of like whats happening in CA. In 30 years your state will become communist

Edited: 9/6/19 1:31 AM
4/27/14
Posts: 20886

As the school year begins and students are expected to listen to the Chinese anthem, they drown it out by singing "Do You Hear the People Sing?" from Les Miserables, which has become the anthem of the anti-coms.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=msMEfWVog0E

 

9/6/19 1:54 AM
12/11/14
Posts: 1604

I lived in HK from 06-08. It isn't a city where you see much of a 'community' response until politics are involved. Once the populace in their majority agree there is an issue, they all seem to band together for change. That part of their culture is really inspiring to me.

 

9/6/19 8:07 AM
10/16/10
Posts: 28531
The Stewed Owl - 

As the school year begins and students are expected to listen to the Chinese anthem, they drown it out by singing "Do You Hear the People Sing?" from Les Miserables, which has become the anthem of the anti-coms.

 


Do you hear the people sing?
Singing the songs of angry men?
It is the music of the people
Who will not be slaves again!
When the beating of your heart
Echoes the beating of the drums
There is a life about to start
When tomorrow comes!

Will you join in our crusade?
Who will be strong and stand with me?
Somewhere beyond the barricade
Is there a world you long to see?

Then join in the fight
That will give you the right to be free!
9/8/19 12:23 PM
2/4/07
Posts: 29931
https://youtu.be/W6qnK4fGMTg

 

9/8/19 12:24 PM
2/4/07
Posts: 29932

Trump would for sure go down as the GOAT if he announced that he's skipping Greenland and putting buying Hong Kong into the trade negotiations with China.

9/8/19 1:22 PM
9/8/10
Posts: 14316

kinda sad how many people the OP tricked with that joke of a source

 

HK is never going to move towards socialism lmao

9/9/19 12:06 PM
1/9/02
Posts: 49623
Stache -
The Stewed Owl - 

As the school year begins and students are expected to listen to the Chinese anthem, they drown it out by singing "Do You Hear the People Sing?" from Les Miserables, which has become the anthem of the anti-coms.

 


Do you hear the people sing?
Singing the songs of angry men?
It is the music of the people
Who will not be slaves again!
When the beating of your heart
Echoes the beating of the drums
There is a life about to start
When tomorrow comes!

Will you join in our crusade?
Who will be strong and stand with me?
Somewhere beyond the barricade
Is there a world you long to see?

Then join in the fight
That will give you the right to be free!

dusty

9/9/19 12:10 PM
1/9/02
Posts: 49624

the american flag waving cant be a good look when the mainland is trying to characterize this as CIA meddling instead of a homegrown thing

 

im extraordinarily proud that my county's flag represents freedom to them but I would understand if they stopped waving it.