OtherGround Forums Michael Vick, in case you forgot

12/4/19 3:50 PM
12/2/05
Posts: 85355
LILBROCK2 -
D241 - 
LILBROCK2 - 
D241 - 

I understand people will have different opinions.

 

What my issue is, is how the basis of their opinions, their logic, is not consistent.

 

The NFL has permanently banned Ray Rice, and shunned him for his off the field actions, which his punishment and crimes were not nearly as high as what Vick's were.  To my understanding Ray Rice and his girlfriend are still together, but Ray Rice isn't being endorsed by the league, but Michael Vick is.

 

No one seems to be addressing this disparity.  If you're okay with Michael Vick being an NFL commentator, and being asked to be an NFL honorary pro bowl legends coach, then if you are consistent, you would suggest that Ray Rice has served his punishment, seems to have shown remorse, and should be re-instated by the NFL.

 

No one is saying that though, are they?

 

My other issue is lack of consistency for those who cite "it was the culture".  How far does "it's the culture" excuse expand?  Is the cutoff dogfighting?  Because I sure don't see anyone making excuses for child molesters who were molested themselves as a child.  I don't see gang bangers who get locked up for murder in the streets of Chicago saying, "well it's just the culture they come from".

 

 

Michael Vick is a free man, he served his time.  I get that.  Why does he have to be involved in the NFL after his career?


Source Rice is banned from the NFL?

Has he ever attempted to obtain a commentator or coach position?

Did Rice serve his punishment? If so what was it?

List all his efforts to decrease domestic violence since completing knocking a female unconscious and dragging her around by her hair.

Source?  https://time.com/3329351/ray-rice-timeline/

 

The more appropriate question, is has anyone offered, which you can take a wild stab at that one.

 

Yes and no.  No because he avoided trial.  What Ray Rice did, didn't even go to trial where as Vick, the guy you are defending for several pages, went to prison, for 23 months.  Rice however, was asked to complete a year long anger management course which he successfully completed.

 

According to the CBS report, the NFL confirmed that Ray Rice works with the league on its domestic violence education program

 

 

"They're trying to do the right thing ... I know they are working with groups to try to get more of an understanding. And they're doing the work. ... I know the NFL

 

 

So there you have it.  What crime had more punishment Ray Rice or Michael Vick? Michael Vick.  

Is there evidence both have done things for the cause they originally were in trouble for?  Yes.

Were they both banned from the league?  No, only Ray Rice was.

Has the league done anything to celebrate what Rice did on the field? No

Has the league done anyting to celebrate what Vick did on the field?  Yes.

 


Again, source he is banned from the nfl?

And I guess if you're saying running a dog fighting operation is way worse than beating the ever loving fuck out of women, I guess that says a lot about you. Maybe some therapy would help

Yes murdering multiple animals is worse than punching a woman once. She even admits she was the aggressor. 

12/4/19 3:53 PM
12/2/05
Posts: 85356
CaptainWoody -
D241 - 
Fake Pie - 
donkypunch55 -

I think he's a reprehensible person for what he did.  
I also think he's paid for it and deserves to be able to move on and make a living.

No need for the two opinions to be mutually exclusive.

Again no one is saying he shouldn't make a living. 

 

How far does the he's paid for it thing go?  Would you say that about Jared when he gets out if he starts speaking out against pedos? 


I know you quoted donkypunch, but everyone defending Vick can also see this point you are making and I just want to say, you are not the only one to take notice that not a single person is going out of there way to try to answer that.

 

They don't want to realize they hypocrisy in their own stance.  


Are you two so mentally retarded that you cannot see the difference in dogs and human children?

If there's no difference to you and you think you're comparing apples to apples, I think we can just end this conversation.

Well that's the point though. People saying he did his time and not qualifying it and saying well some crimes shouldn't be forgiven. If you agree with the latter statement, guess what point this thread is making? 

12/4/19 3:53 PM
12/2/05
Posts: 85357

And don't say you are going to end it. You know you won't. :) 

12/4/19 3:59 PM
11/5/19
Posts: 263
Fake Pie - 
LILBROCK2 -
D241 - 
LILBROCK2 - 
D241 - 

I understand people will have different opinions.

 

What my issue is, is how the basis of their opinions, their logic, is not consistent.

 

The NFL has permanently banned Ray Rice, and shunned him for his off the field actions, which his punishment and crimes were not nearly as high as what Vick's were.  To my understanding Ray Rice and his girlfriend are still together, but Ray Rice isn't being endorsed by the league, but Michael Vick is.

 

No one seems to be addressing this disparity.  If you're okay with Michael Vick being an NFL commentator, and being asked to be an NFL honorary pro bowl legends coach, then if you are consistent, you would suggest that Ray Rice has served his punishment, seems to have shown remorse, and should be re-instated by the NFL.

 

No one is saying that though, are they?

 

My other issue is lack of consistency for those who cite "it was the culture".  How far does "it's the culture" excuse expand?  Is the cutoff dogfighting?  Because I sure don't see anyone making excuses for child molesters who were molested themselves as a child.  I don't see gang bangers who get locked up for murder in the streets of Chicago saying, "well it's just the culture they come from".

 

 

Michael Vick is a free man, he served his time.  I get that.  Why does he have to be involved in the NFL after his career?


Source Rice is banned from the NFL?

Has he ever attempted to obtain a commentator or coach position?

Did Rice serve his punishment? If so what was it?

List all his efforts to decrease domestic violence since completing knocking a female unconscious and dragging her around by her hair.

Source?  https://time.com/3329351/ray-rice-timeline/

 

The more appropriate question, is has anyone offered, which you can take a wild stab at that one.

 

Yes and no.  No because he avoided trial.  What Ray Rice did, didn't even go to trial where as Vick, the guy you are defending for several pages, went to prison, for 23 months.  Rice however, was asked to complete a year long anger management course which he successfully completed.

 

According to the CBS report, the NFL confirmed that Ray Rice works with the league on its domestic violence education program

 

 

"They're trying to do the right thing ... I know they are working with groups to try to get more of an understanding. And they're doing the work. ... I know the NFL

 

 

So there you have it.  What crime had more punishment Ray Rice or Michael Vick? Michael Vick.  

Is there evidence both have done things for the cause they originally were in trouble for?  Yes.

Were they both banned from the league?  No, only Ray Rice was.

Has the league done anything to celebrate what Rice did on the field? No

Has the league done anyting to celebrate what Vick did on the field?  Yes.

 


Again, source he is banned from the nfl?

And I guess if you're saying running a dog fighting operation is way worse than beating the ever loving fuck out of women, I guess that says a lot about you. Maybe some therapy would help

Yes murdering multiple animals is worse than punching a woman once. She even admits she was the aggressor. 


Oh so she deserved it? Yes completely justified violent felony assault
12/4/19 4:01 PM
12/2/05
Posts: 85358
LILBROCK2 - 
Fake Pie - 
LILBROCK2 -
Fake Pie - 
LILBROCK2 -
FETT_Lay'n'PrayNINJA - 
BruteDion -

Funny because Vick has done more for dogs them pretty much everyone in this thread has combined.

You want to judge the man then show what you have done for the dog community as a whole.

This is my favorite idiotic argument in this thread. 


But he has. He did horrible horrible things 15 years ago

And had done a lot of good since. More than almost anyone out there

Again how are you quantifying that? 


I already stated how several pages ago, but here you go again I guess


Unless you can list others who have given millions of dollars, spoken to congress and pushed for harsher penalties and stricter laws, and spoken to those at risk of going down the same road he did, inner city youth, about dogfighting I'm not sure how you can argue many others have down more

People dedicate their entire lives to running or working with rescues. Plenty of people have given more money. You haven't shown a source for how much he's even given..and tons of people advocated for the same laws. Don't a lot sure but how can you say most. 


So some give money? Others work with Congress? And let me guess other are leaking to inner city chikdren?

I said he does more than most.


List a handful of people that do more than him?

Out of the 350m people in this country, for you to act like "tons" or more do more than that is an odd take.

You didn't say more than most. You said more than almost anyone out there. Other people (maybe you too) have literally said "the most" on this thread. I just think it is a silly thing.

Who are the top 10 donors to animal charities? How much has Vick given and where does he rank? If you don't know, then how can you possibly think he is near the top on donations? It isn't up to me to prove, you made the point. There are people out there who make single donations to charities larger than his net worth, you really think he's near the top?

Also, who is more important, the top donor (which is assuredly isn't) to the ASPCA or the men and women who do the work with that money?

So that's the money thing. Thousands of people in this country literally dedicate their lives to working with animal rescues, animal rights orgs, and spend way more time than him. I am not shitting on what he has done, but how is he at the top? Because he's the most famous person you've heard of and you aren't aware of others doing that work? I personally know people who run entire dog rescues, make no money for themselves and put everything they have back into it. There are thousands like them. They do more.

The law? Other people proposed it, advocated for it for years, got votes for it and voted for it. He put his name behind it like thousands of others. He didn't do the most on that law either.

He speaks to people. Thousands of animal rights people do too. He isn't doing the most there either.

If you never said the most or something like that then fine this is directed at people who have but your "more than almost anyone out there" is also silly to me. You can't even source his donation amounts.
12/4/19 4:05 PM
12/2/05
Posts: 85359

I have no issue with the opinion that he did something bad but has done enough to make up for it. I disagree with it, but that is a valid opinion. I just think these are silly things being thrown out in this thread.

1. SO HE CAN NEVER WORK AGAIN?

Literally no one is saying that. There are other options besides (a) never working and (b) the NFL and media orgs giving him high profile jobs.

2. HE HAS DONE MORE THAN ANYONE FOR DOGS!

My entire post above addresses this. Silly statement. If you mean bring awareness... OK in the sense that Hitler brought awareness to the plight of jews. NO I AM NOT CALLING HIM HITLER OR COMPARING WHAT HE DID! I'm making a point with the lulz.

3. HE PAID HIS DEBT WITH HIS JAIL TIME!

Again, if you wouldn't apply this to crimes you think are really heinous like child molestation, guess what the point of this thread is?

12/4/19 4:07 PM
5/13/11
Posts: 54283
LILBROCK2 -
Fake Pie - 
LILBROCK2 -
D241 - 
LILBROCK2 - 
D241 - 

I understand people will have different opinions.

 

What my issue is, is how the basis of their opinions, their logic, is not consistent.

 

The NFL has permanently banned Ray Rice, and shunned him for his off the field actions, which his punishment and crimes were not nearly as high as what Vick's were.  To my understanding Ray Rice and his girlfriend are still together, but Ray Rice isn't being endorsed by the league, but Michael Vick is.

 

No one seems to be addressing this disparity.  If you're okay with Michael Vick being an NFL commentator, and being asked to be an NFL honorary pro bowl legends coach, then if you are consistent, you would suggest that Ray Rice has served his punishment, seems to have shown remorse, and should be re-instated by the NFL.

 

No one is saying that though, are they?

 

My other issue is lack of consistency for those who cite "it was the culture".  How far does "it's the culture" excuse expand?  Is the cutoff dogfighting?  Because I sure don't see anyone making excuses for child molesters who were molested themselves as a child.  I don't see gang bangers who get locked up for murder in the streets of Chicago saying, "well it's just the culture they come from".

 

 

Michael Vick is a free man, he served his time.  I get that.  Why does he have to be involved in the NFL after his career?


Source Rice is banned from the NFL?

Has he ever attempted to obtain a commentator or coach position?

Did Rice serve his punishment? If so what was it?

List all his efforts to decrease domestic violence since completing knocking a female unconscious and dragging her around by her hair.

Source?  https://time.com/3329351/ray-rice-timeline/

 

The more appropriate question, is has anyone offered, which you can take a wild stab at that one.

 

Yes and no.  No because he avoided trial.  What Ray Rice did, didn't even go to trial where as Vick, the guy you are defending for several pages, went to prison, for 23 months.  Rice however, was asked to complete a year long anger management course which he successfully completed.

 

According to the CBS report, the NFL confirmed that Ray Rice works with the league on its domestic violence education program

 

 

"They're trying to do the right thing ... I know they are working with groups to try to get more of an understanding. And they're doing the work. ... I know the NFL

 

 

So there you have it.  What crime had more punishment Ray Rice or Michael Vick? Michael Vick.  

Is there evidence both have done things for the cause they originally were in trouble for?  Yes.

Were they both banned from the league?  No, only Ray Rice was.

Has the league done anything to celebrate what Rice did on the field? No

Has the league done anyting to celebrate what Vick did on the field?  Yes.

 


Again, source he is banned from the nfl?

And I guess if you're saying running a dog fighting operation is way worse than beating the ever loving fuck out of women, I guess that says a lot about you. Maybe some therapy would help

Yes murdering multiple animals is worse than punching a woman once. She even admits she was the aggressor. 


Oh so she deserved it? Yes completely justified violent felony assault

There you go making up another false narrative  to argue...lol

12/4/19 4:07 PM
12/2/05
Posts: 85360
LILBROCK2 - 
Fake Pie - 
LILBROCK2 -
D241 - 
LILBROCK2 - 
D241 - 

I understand people will have different opinions.

 

What my issue is, is how the basis of their opinions, their logic, is not consistent.

 

The NFL has permanently banned Ray Rice, and shunned him for his off the field actions, which his punishment and crimes were not nearly as high as what Vick's were.  To my understanding Ray Rice and his girlfriend are still together, but Ray Rice isn't being endorsed by the league, but Michael Vick is.

 

No one seems to be addressing this disparity.  If you're okay with Michael Vick being an NFL commentator, and being asked to be an NFL honorary pro bowl legends coach, then if you are consistent, you would suggest that Ray Rice has served his punishment, seems to have shown remorse, and should be re-instated by the NFL.

 

No one is saying that though, are they?

 

My other issue is lack of consistency for those who cite "it was the culture".  How far does "it's the culture" excuse expand?  Is the cutoff dogfighting?  Because I sure don't see anyone making excuses for child molesters who were molested themselves as a child.  I don't see gang bangers who get locked up for murder in the streets of Chicago saying, "well it's just the culture they come from".

 

 

Michael Vick is a free man, he served his time.  I get that.  Why does he have to be involved in the NFL after his career?


Source Rice is banned from the NFL?

Has he ever attempted to obtain a commentator or coach position?

Did Rice serve his punishment? If so what was it?

List all his efforts to decrease domestic violence since completing knocking a female unconscious and dragging her around by her hair.

Source?  https://time.com/3329351/ray-rice-timeline/

 

The more appropriate question, is has anyone offered, which you can take a wild stab at that one.

 

Yes and no.  No because he avoided trial.  What Ray Rice did, didn't even go to trial where as Vick, the guy you are defending for several pages, went to prison, for 23 months.  Rice however, was asked to complete a year long anger management course which he successfully completed.

 

According to the CBS report, the NFL confirmed that Ray Rice works with the league on its domestic violence education program

 

 

"They're trying to do the right thing ... I know they are working with groups to try to get more of an understanding. And they're doing the work. ... I know the NFL

 

 

So there you have it.  What crime had more punishment Ray Rice or Michael Vick? Michael Vick.  

Is there evidence both have done things for the cause they originally were in trouble for?  Yes.

Were they both banned from the league?  No, only Ray Rice was.

Has the league done anything to celebrate what Rice did on the field? No

Has the league done anyting to celebrate what Vick did on the field?  Yes.

 


Again, source he is banned from the nfl?

And I guess if you're saying running a dog fighting operation is way worse than beating the ever loving fuck out of women, I guess that says a lot about you. Maybe some therapy would help

Yes murdering multiple animals is worse than punching a woman once. She even admits she was the aggressor. 


Oh so she deserved it? Yes completely justified violent felony assault

Why put words in people's mouths? You keep doing that. Show me where I said that. I said THE WIFE said she was the aggressor. That is something she said. Legally, what he did could probably be classified as self defense if you watched the video. I don't agree with it, but that is what it is. And no, I do not think she deserved it at all.
12/4/19 4:08 PM
12/2/05
Posts: 85361
FETT_Lay'n'PrayNINJA - 
LILBROCK2 -
Fake Pie - 
LILBROCK2 -
D241 - 
LILBROCK2 - 
D241 - 

I understand people will have different opinions.

 

What my issue is, is how the basis of their opinions, their logic, is not consistent.

 

The NFL has permanently banned Ray Rice, and shunned him for his off the field actions, which his punishment and crimes were not nearly as high as what Vick's were.  To my understanding Ray Rice and his girlfriend are still together, but Ray Rice isn't being endorsed by the league, but Michael Vick is.

 

No one seems to be addressing this disparity.  If you're okay with Michael Vick being an NFL commentator, and being asked to be an NFL honorary pro bowl legends coach, then if you are consistent, you would suggest that Ray Rice has served his punishment, seems to have shown remorse, and should be re-instated by the NFL.

 

No one is saying that though, are they?

 

My other issue is lack of consistency for those who cite "it was the culture".  How far does "it's the culture" excuse expand?  Is the cutoff dogfighting?  Because I sure don't see anyone making excuses for child molesters who were molested themselves as a child.  I don't see gang bangers who get locked up for murder in the streets of Chicago saying, "well it's just the culture they come from".

 

 

Michael Vick is a free man, he served his time.  I get that.  Why does he have to be involved in the NFL after his career?


Source Rice is banned from the NFL?

Has he ever attempted to obtain a commentator or coach position?

Did Rice serve his punishment? If so what was it?

List all his efforts to decrease domestic violence since completing knocking a female unconscious and dragging her around by her hair.

Source?  https://time.com/3329351/ray-rice-timeline/

 

The more appropriate question, is has anyone offered, which you can take a wild stab at that one.

 

Yes and no.  No because he avoided trial.  What Ray Rice did, didn't even go to trial where as Vick, the guy you are defending for several pages, went to prison, for 23 months.  Rice however, was asked to complete a year long anger management course which he successfully completed.

 

According to the CBS report, the NFL confirmed that Ray Rice works with the league on its domestic violence education program

 

 

"They're trying to do the right thing ... I know they are working with groups to try to get more of an understanding. And they're doing the work. ... I know the NFL

 

 

So there you have it.  What crime had more punishment Ray Rice or Michael Vick? Michael Vick.  

Is there evidence both have done things for the cause they originally were in trouble for?  Yes.

Were they both banned from the league?  No, only Ray Rice was.

Has the league done anything to celebrate what Rice did on the field? No

Has the league done anyting to celebrate what Vick did on the field?  Yes.

 


Again, source he is banned from the nfl?

And I guess if you're saying running a dog fighting operation is way worse than beating the ever loving fuck out of women, I guess that says a lot about you. Maybe some therapy would help

Yes murdering multiple animals is worse than punching a woman once. She even admits she was the aggressor. 


Oh so she deserved it? Yes completely justified violent felony assault

There you go making up another false narrative  to argue...lol


Seriously, WTF?

It's like that Jordan Peterson video with the woman who kept saying "so what your saying is..." and then saying something he never said, at all.
12/4/19 4:13 PM
5/13/11
Posts: 54284
LILBROCK2 -
FETT_Lay'n'PrayNINJA - 
LILBROCK2 -
D241 - 
LILBROCK2 - 
D241 - 

I understand people will have different opinions.

 

What my issue is, is how the basis of their opinions, their logic, is not consistent.

 

The NFL has permanently banned Ray Rice, and shunned him for his off the field actions, which his punishment and crimes were not nearly as high as what Vick's were.  To my understanding Ray Rice and his girlfriend are still together, but Ray Rice isn't being endorsed by the league, but Michael Vick is.

 

No one seems to be addressing this disparity.  If you're okay with Michael Vick being an NFL commentator, and being asked to be an NFL honorary pro bowl legends coach, then if you are consistent, you would suggest that Ray Rice has served his punishment, seems to have shown remorse, and should be re-instated by the NFL.

 

No one is saying that though, are they?

 

My other issue is lack of consistency for those who cite "it was the culture".  How far does "it's the culture" excuse expand?  Is the cutoff dogfighting?  Because I sure don't see anyone making excuses for child molesters who were molested themselves as a child.  I don't see gang bangers who get locked up for murder in the streets of Chicago saying, "well it's just the culture they come from".

 

 

Michael Vick is a free man, he served his time.  I get that.  Why does he have to be involved in the NFL after his career?


Source Rice is banned from the NFL?

Has he ever attempted to obtain a commentator or coach position?

Did Rice serve his punishment? If so what was it?

List all his efforts to decrease domestic violence since completing knocking a female unconscious and dragging her around by her hair.
 

Source?  https://time.com/3329351/ray-rice-timeline/

 

The more appropriate question, is has anyone offered, which you can take a wild stab at that one.

 

Yes and no.  No because he avoided trial.  What Ray Rice did, didn't even go to trial where as Vick, the guy you are defending for several pages, went to prison, for 23 months.  Rice however, was asked to complete a year long anger management course which he successfully completed.

 

According to the CBS report, the NFL confirmed that Ray Rice works with the league on its domestic violence education program. 

 

 

"They're trying to do the right thing ... I know they are working with groups to try to get more of an understanding. And they're doing the work. ... I know the NFL

 

 

So there you have it.  What crime had more punishment Ray Rice or Michael Vick? Michael Vick.  

Is there evidence both have done things for the cause they originally were in trouble for?  Yes.

Were they both banned from the league?  No, only Ray Rice was.

Has the league done anything to celebrate what Rice did on the field? No

Has the league done anyting to celebrate what Vick did on the field?  Yes.

 


Again, source he is banned from the nfl?

And I guess if you're saying running a dog fighting operation is way worse than beating the ever loving fuck out of women, I guess that says a lot about you. Maybe some therapy would help

He never said what was way worse, he only spoke to the criminal punishment. You're literally in multiple threads making up narratives to argue with people. 


" which his punishment and crimes were not nearly as high as what Vick's were."

He said the crimes weren't nearly as high you idiot.

And that's what you choose to argue about, when he's clearly lying over and over about Rice being banned from the Nfl?

Right, so he was speaking to the criminal/punishment aspect just like said...and didn't say what was "way worse" like you tried to assign to him. 

 

You've made up false narrative after false narrative in this thread and the Zimmerman  one, just to argue with people. 

12/4/19 4:14 PM
11/5/19
Posts: 265
Fake Pie - 
LILBROCK2 - 
Fake Pie - 
LILBROCK2 -
D241 - 
LILBROCK2 - 
D241 - 

I understand people will have different opinions.

 

What my issue is, is how the basis of their opinions, their logic, is not consistent.

 

The NFL has permanently banned Ray Rice, and shunned him for his off the field actions, which his punishment and crimes were not nearly as high as what Vick's were.  To my understanding Ray Rice and his girlfriend are still together, but Ray Rice isn't being endorsed by the league, but Michael Vick is.

 

No one seems to be addressing this disparity.  If you're okay with Michael Vick being an NFL commentator, and being asked to be an NFL honorary pro bowl legends coach, then if you are consistent, you would suggest that Ray Rice has served his punishment, seems to have shown remorse, and should be re-instated by the NFL.

 

No one is saying that though, are they?

 

My other issue is lack of consistency for those who cite "it was the culture".  How far does "it's the culture" excuse expand?  Is the cutoff dogfighting?  Because I sure don't see anyone making excuses for child molesters who were molested themselves as a child.  I don't see gang bangers who get locked up for murder in the streets of Chicago saying, "well it's just the culture they come from".

 

 

Michael Vick is a free man, he served his time.  I get that.  Why does he have to be involved in the NFL after his career?


Source Rice is banned from the NFL?

Has he ever attempted to obtain a commentator or coach position?

Did Rice serve his punishment? If so what was it?

List all his efforts to decrease domestic violence since completing knocking a female unconscious and dragging her around by her hair.

Source?  https://time.com/3329351/ray-rice-timeline/

 

The more appropriate question, is has anyone offered, which you can take a wild stab at that one.

 

Yes and no.  No because he avoided trial.  What Ray Rice did, didn't even go to trial where as Vick, the guy you are defending for several pages, went to prison, for 23 months.  Rice however, was asked to complete a year long anger management course which he successfully completed.

 

According to the CBS report, the NFL confirmed that Ray Rice works with the league on its domestic violence education program

 

 

"They're trying to do the right thing ... I know they are working with groups to try to get more of an understanding. And they're doing the work. ... I know the NFL

 

 

So there you have it.  What crime had more punishment Ray Rice or Michael Vick? Michael Vick.  

Is there evidence both have done things for the cause they originally were in trouble for?  Yes.

Were they both banned from the league?  No, only Ray Rice was.

Has the league done anything to celebrate what Rice did on the field? No

Has the league done anyting to celebrate what Vick did on the field?  Yes.

 


Again, source he is banned from the nfl?

And I guess if you're saying running a dog fighting operation is way worse than beating the ever loving fuck out of women, I guess that says a lot about you. Maybe some therapy would help

Yes murdering multiple animals is worse than punching a woman once. She even admits she was the aggressor. 


Oh so she deserved it? Yes completely justified violent felony assault

Why put words in people's mouths? You keep doing that. Show me where I said that. I said THE WIFE said she was the aggressor. That is something she said. Legally, what he did could probably be classified as self defense if you watched the video. I don't agree with it, but that is what it is. And no, I do not think she deserved it at all.

She has come out and said she was in an abusive relationship. You saying it happened once is interesting because it's almost like you claim it's fact.

And you can have your opinion. I'd say felony domestic violence (which can and does lead to human deaths) is worse than running a dog fighting ring, which was legal in our country in the previous 40 years.
12/4/19 4:14 PM
5/13/11
Posts: 54285
Fake Pie -
FETT_Lay'n'PrayNINJA - 
LILBROCK2 -
Fake Pie - 
LILBROCK2 -
D241 - 
LILBROCK2 - 
D241 - 

I understand people will have different opinions.

 

What my issue is, is how the basis of their opinions, their logic, is not consistent.

 

The NFL has permanently banned Ray Rice, and shunned him for his off the field actions, which his punishment and crimes were not nearly as high as what Vick's were.  To my understanding Ray Rice and his girlfriend are still together, but Ray Rice isn't being endorsed by the league, but Michael Vick is.

 

No one seems to be addressing this disparity.  If you're okay with Michael Vick being an NFL commentator, and being asked to be an NFL honorary pro bowl legends coach, then if you are consistent, you would suggest that Ray Rice has served his punishment, seems to have shown remorse, and should be re-instated by the NFL.

 

No one is saying that though, are they?

 

My other issue is lack of consistency for those who cite "it was the culture".  How far does "it's the culture" excuse expand?  Is the cutoff dogfighting?  Because I sure don't see anyone making excuses for child molesters who were molested themselves as a child.  I don't see gang bangers who get locked up for murder in the streets of Chicago saying, "well it's just the culture they come from".

 

 

Michael Vick is a free man, he served his time.  I get that.  Why does he have to be involved in the NFL after his career?


Source Rice is banned from the NFL?

Has he ever attempted to obtain a commentator or coach position?

Did Rice serve his punishment? If so what was it?

List all his efforts to decrease domestic violence since completing knocking a female unconscious and dragging her around by her hair.

Source?  https://time.com/3329351/ray-rice-timeline/

 

The more appropriate question, is has anyone offered, which you can take a wild stab at that one.

 

Yes and no.  No because he avoided trial.  What Ray Rice did, didn't even go to trial where as Vick, the guy you are defending for several pages, went to prison, for 23 months.  Rice however, was asked to complete a year long anger management course which he successfully completed.

 

According to the CBS report, the NFL confirmed that Ray Rice works with the league on its domestic violence education program

 

 

"They're trying to do the right thing ... I know they are working with groups to try to get more of an understanding. And they're doing the work. ... I know the NFL

 

 

So there you have it.  What crime had more punishment Ray Rice or Michael Vick? Michael Vick.  

Is there evidence both have done things for the cause they originally were in trouble for?  Yes.

Were they both banned from the league?  No, only Ray Rice was.

Has the league done anything to celebrate what Rice did on the field? No

Has the league done anyting to celebrate what Vick did on the field?  Yes.

 


Again, source he is banned from the nfl?

And I guess if you're saying running a dog fighting operation is way worse than beating the ever loving fuck out of women, I guess that says a lot about you. Maybe some therapy would help

Yes murdering multiple animals is worse than punching a woman once. She even admits she was the aggressor. 


Oh so she deserved it? Yes completely justified violent felony assault

There you go making up another false narrative  to argue...lol


Seriously, WTF?

It's like that Jordan Peterson video with the woman who kept saying "so what your saying is..." and then saying something he never said, at all.

His last account was banned. He already admitted that to me. He debates like a toddler. It's pointless. 

12/4/19 4:18 PM
5/13/11
Posts: 54286
LILBROCK2 -
Fake Pie - 
LILBROCK2 - 
Fake Pie - 
LILBROCK2 -
D241 - 
LILBROCK2 - 
D241 - 

I understand people will have different opinions.

 

What my issue is, is how the basis of their opinions, their logic, is not consistent.

 

The NFL has permanently banned Ray Rice, and shunned him for his off the field actions, which his punishment and crimes were not nearly as high as what Vick's were.  To my understanding Ray Rice and his girlfriend are still together, but Ray Rice isn't being endorsed by the league, but Michael Vick is.

 

No one seems to be addressing this disparity.  If you're okay with Michael Vick being an NFL commentator, and being asked to be an NFL honorary pro bowl legends coach, then if you are consistent, you would suggest that Ray Rice has served his punishment, seems to have shown remorse, and should be re-instated by the NFL.

 

No one is saying that though, are they?

 

My other issue is lack of consistency for those who cite "it was the culture".  How far does "it's the culture" excuse expand?  Is the cutoff dogfighting?  Because I sure don't see anyone making excuses for child molesters who were molested themselves as a child.  I don't see gang bangers who get locked up for murder in the streets of Chicago saying, "well it's just the culture they come from".

 

 

Michael Vick is a free man, he served his time.  I get that.  Why does he have to be involved in the NFL after his career?


Source Rice is banned from the NFL?

Has he ever attempted to obtain a commentator or coach position?

Did Rice serve his punishment? If so what was it?

List all his efforts to decrease domestic violence since completing knocking a female unconscious and dragging her around by her hair.

Source?  https://time.com/3329351/ray-rice-timeline/

 

The more appropriate question, is has anyone offered, which you can take a wild stab at that one.

 

Yes and no.  No because he avoided trial.  What Ray Rice did, didn't even go to trial where as Vick, the guy you are defending for several pages, went to prison, for 23 months.  Rice however, was asked to complete a year long anger management course which he successfully completed.

 

According to the CBS report, the NFL confirmed that Ray Rice works with the league on its domestic violence education program

 

 

"They're trying to do the right thing ... I know they are working with groups to try to get more of an understanding. And they're doing the work. ... I know the NFL

 

 

So there you have it.  What crime had more punishment Ray Rice or Michael Vick? Michael Vick.  

Is there evidence both have done things for the cause they originally were in trouble for?  Yes.

Were they both banned from the league?  No, only Ray Rice was.

Has the league done anything to celebrate what Rice did on the field? No

Has the league done anyting to celebrate what Vick did on the field?  Yes.

 


Again, source he is banned from the nfl?

And I guess if you're saying running a dog fighting operation is way worse than beating the ever loving fuck out of women, I guess that says a lot about you. Maybe some therapy would help

Yes murdering multiple animals is worse than punching a woman once. She even admits she was the aggressor. 


Oh so she deserved it? Yes completely justified violent felony assault

Why put words in people's mouths? You keep doing that. Show me where I said that. I said THE WIFE said she was the aggressor. That is something she said. Legally, what he did could probably be classified as self defense if you watched the video. I don't agree with it, but that is what it is. And no, I do not think she deserved it at all.

She has come out and said she was in an abusive relationship. You saying it happened once is interesting because it's almost like you claim it's fact.

And you can have your opinion. I'd say felony domestic violence (which can and does lead to human deaths) is worse than running a dog fighting ring, which was legal in our country in the previous 40 years.

No one's talking about what domestic violence can lead to. They are talking about this specific incident which lead to nothing permanent as far as injuries, and she seems to have admitted she was the aggressor and chose to stay with him. 

 

Where Vick's case was proven repeated torture, forced rape, and death of dozens of animals. 

 

Your hyperbole is adorable. 

12/4/19 4:18 PM
3/29/13
Posts: 5632
Fake Pie -
LILBROCK2 -
D241 - 
LILBROCK2 - 
D241 - 

I understand people will have different opinions.

 

What my issue is, is how the basis of their opinions, their logic, is not consistent.

 

The NFL has permanently banned Ray Rice, and shunned him for his off the field actions, which his punishment and crimes were not nearly as high as what Vick's were.  To my understanding Ray Rice and his girlfriend are still together, but Ray Rice isn't being endorsed by the league, but Michael Vick is.

 

No one seems to be addressing this disparity.  If you're okay with Michael Vick being an NFL commentator, and being asked to be an NFL honorary pro bowl legends coach, then if you are consistent, you would suggest that Ray Rice has served his punishment, seems to have shown remorse, and should be re-instated by the NFL.

 

No one is saying that though, are they?

 

My other issue is lack of consistency for those who cite "it was the culture".  How far does "it's the culture" excuse expand?  Is the cutoff dogfighting?  Because I sure don't see anyone making excuses for child molesters who were molested themselves as a child.  I don't see gang bangers who get locked up for murder in the streets of Chicago saying, "well it's just the culture they come from".

 

 

Michael Vick is a free man, he served his time.  I get that.  Why does he have to be involved in the NFL after his career?


Source Rice is banned from the NFL?

Has he ever attempted to obtain a commentator or coach position?

Did Rice serve his punishment? If so what was it?

List all his efforts to decrease domestic violence since completing knocking a female unconscious and dragging her around by her hair.

Source?  https://time.com/3329351/ray-rice-timeline/

 

The more appropriate question, is has anyone offered, which you can take a wild stab at that one.

 

Yes and no.  No because he avoided trial.  What Ray Rice did, didn't even go to trial where as Vick, the guy you are defending for several pages, went to prison, for 23 months.  Rice however, was asked to complete a year long anger management course which he successfully completed.

 

According to the CBS report, the NFL confirmed that Ray Rice works with the league on its domestic violence education program

 

 

"They're trying to do the right thing ... I know they are working with groups to try to get more of an understanding. And they're doing the work. ... I know the NFL

 

 

So there you have it.  What crime had more punishment Ray Rice or Michael Vick? Michael Vick.  

Is there evidence both have done things for the cause they originally were in trouble for?  Yes.

Were they both banned from the league?  No, only Ray Rice was.

Has the league done anything to celebrate what Rice did on the field? No

Has the league done anyting to celebrate what Vick did on the field?  Yes.

 


Again, source he is banned from the nfl?

And I guess if you're saying running a dog fighting operation is way worse than beating the ever loving fuck out of women, I guess that says a lot about you. Maybe some therapy would help

Yes murdering multiple animals is worse than punching a woman once. She even admits she was the aggressor. 

Ray rice was not banned by the nfl, and the charges were dropped and goodell even came out and said he fucked up by even suspending him before he knew the story

he also sued the nfl and was paid for the 2 games he was suspended for and for wrongful termination 

12/4/19 4:20 PM
2/5/06
Posts: 39552
Fake Pie - 
CaptainWoody -
D241 - 
Fake Pie - 
donkypunch55 -

I think he's a reprehensible person for what he did.  
I also think he's paid for it and deserves to be able to move on and make a living.

No need for the two opinions to be mutually exclusive.

Again no one is saying he shouldn't make a living. 

 

How far does the he's paid for it thing go?  Would you say that about Jared when he gets out if he starts speaking out against pedos? 


I know you quoted donkypunch, but everyone defending Vick can also see this point you are making and I just want to say, you are not the only one to take notice that not a single person is going out of there way to try to answer that.

 

They don't want to realize they hypocrisy in their own stance.  


Are you two so mentally retarded that you cannot see the difference in dogs and human children?

If there's no difference to you and you think you're comparing apples to apples, I think we can just end this conversation.

Well that's the point though. People saying he did his time and not qualifying it and saying well some crimes shouldn't be forgiven. If you agree with the latter statement, guess what point this thread is making? 


10 pages and you've reduced it down to "The crime he did shouldn't be forgiven", that's the point of the thread now? The point of the thread and OP is that he shouldn't be on TV.

You keep reminding us "He can do other jobs" "We're not saying he shouldn't be able to work elsewhere and make a living"

Why should he be able to do those other jobs and make a living? He committed an unforgivable crime to you. Why talk about the NFL and TV? That's secondary, shouldn't your argument be he should be in prison for the rest of his life? That's what we do with people who commit unforgivable crimes.


You're moving the goalpost now because you made a really dumb comparison between dogs and children to try and make a point.
Edited: 12/4/19 4:23 PM
11/20/09
Posts: 41899
D241 - 

With respect to the time put into the thread, I'm just going to say the direction this is going is more to piss off someone than to prove a point.  

 

I'm not about that.  We all share a common bond in love for mma.  I don't want to butt heads with fellow mma fans.  We can agree to disagree.  We can try to debate civilally, but if the replies are not made in a civil way, then we should just stop making them.  I 100% admit I too am guilty of falling into that direction, which is why I am openly saying we should try to be more civil.

 

My mistake, which I will make a more conscious effort in the future to avoid, was entertaining people like Captain Woody and LilBrock2 who IMMEDIATELY do not post to make a civil debate but instead post to insight aggression and try to make personal attacks on the person they disagree with, instead of making points or counter points. 

 

You won't see me lashing out until after multple post like these examples were done-

 

:
 
LILBROCK2 - 
D241 - 

I don't agree with him being an NFL commentator and NFL Pro Bowl Legend coach alongside Bruce Smith, Darrell Green, and Terrell Davis. 

 

I'm super happy he seems to show remorse, and is trying to make a change.  Why have him in the spotlight?

He can work in the background, he doesn't need to be in the limelight.


Is this why the libtards are crying all over Facebook recently, and I'm seeing threads like this, because you guys have a problem with him being a Pro Bowl Legends coach, as if that event means so much to you?

Jesus Christ find something else to bitch about. He did a shitty thing, lost his freedom and a ton of money, and seemed to have turned his life around. Move the f on already
 
CaptainWoody -You're over emotional here..., like a hallmark movie

You've been able to take a pretty shitty scenario and make it kinda funny.

See, I will hold myself accountable not for you and how you post, but for understanding there will always be people like this and it is up to me, if I want a civil debate, who I should deem worthy of a response to. 

 

In hindsight, I should never have given either of you the time of day.  That's on me.

 
Edited: 12/4/19 4:26 PM
11/20/09
Posts: 41900

I will say though, going back to see LilBrock2 and CaptainWoody's initial response to verify they immediately were here to start a shit talking battle rather than a civil debate, I stumbled across this comment from CaptainWoody and come on......even I can admit this was funny right here-


CaptainWoody -
HoneyGlazedJinx -
You idiot who shoot Coyotes on the weekend need to just shut the fuck up. You're no better than Michael Vick.


What if it's a Wednesday?

 

12/4/19 4:31 PM
2/5/06
Posts: 39553

Why don't you post the context of why I said that?


And thanks to the recognition for my Jinx reply!

12/4/19 4:49 PM
1/3/18
Posts: 5993
D241 -

I don't agree with him being an NFL commentator and NFL Pro Bowl Legend coach alongside Bruce Smith, Darrell Green, and Terrell Davis. 

 

I'm super happy he seems to show remorse, and is trying to make a change.  Why have him in the spotlight?

He can work in the background, he doesn't need to be in the limelight.

Aww, does seeing that mean ol bwack man bover you?

Get over it you fucking faggot.

There's a shitlist of professional athletes that have done terrible things To HUMANS. Where's your faux outrage about their victims?

12/4/19 4:52 PM
12/2/05
Posts: 85362
D241 - 

I will say though, going back to see LilBrock2 and CaptainWoody's initial response to verify they immediately were here to start a shit talking battle rather than a civil debate, I stumbled across this comment from CaptainWoody and come on......even I can admit this was funny right here-


CaptainWoody -
HoneyGlazedJinx -
You idiot who shoot Coyotes on the weekend need to just shut the fuck up. You're no better than Michael Vick.


What if it's a Wednesday?

 


LOL, that comment was hilarious.
12/4/19 4:56 PM
12/2/05
Posts: 85363
CaptainWoody - 
Fake Pie - 
CaptainWoody -
D241 - 
Fake Pie - 
donkypunch55 -

I think he's a reprehensible person for what he did.  
I also think he's paid for it and deserves to be able to move on and make a living.

No need for the two opinions to be mutually exclusive.

Again no one is saying he shouldn't make a living. 

 

How far does the he's paid for it thing go?  Would you say that about Jared when he gets out if he starts speaking out against pedos? 


I know you quoted donkypunch, but everyone defending Vick can also see this point you are making and I just want to say, you are not the only one to take notice that not a single person is going out of there way to try to answer that.

 

They don't want to realize they hypocrisy in their own stance.  


Are you two so mentally retarded that you cannot see the difference in dogs and human children?

If there's no difference to you and you think you're comparing apples to apples, I think we can just end this conversation.

Well that's the point though. People saying he did his time and not qualifying it and saying well some crimes shouldn't be forgiven. If you agree with the latter statement, guess what point this thread is making? 


10 pages and you've reduced it down to "The crime he did shouldn't be forgiven", that's the point of the thread now? The point of the thread and OP is that he shouldn't be on TV.

You keep reminding us "He can do other jobs" "We're not saying he shouldn't be able to work elsewhere and make a living"

Why should he be able to do those other jobs and make a living? He committed an unforgivable crime to you. Why talk about the NFL and TV? That's secondary, shouldn't your argument be he should be in prison for the rest of his life? That's what we do with people who commit unforgivable crimes.


You're moving the goalpost now because you made a really dumb comparison between dogs and children to try and make a point.

I guess I thought this was clear enough but sorry if not. I will try again:

You clearly also think there are crimes bad enough that someone should not get high profile jobs, but you probably would still want them to work some sort of honest job when they are out of jail. Like I bet you think Jared could be a janitor (obviously not at a school) when he gets out, but I bet if he did n anti pedo advocacy, you still wouldn't want anyone paying him millions in a cush media job or making him a spokesman again, correct?

NO I AM NOT COMPARING WHAT VICK DID TO MOLESTATION. I am using an extreme example to make the point.

So to me, what Vick did crosses that line. Obviously not to you. If you agree with the Jared example though, you clearly agree with the premise, you just don't think Vick crossed the line, so we can stop saying crap like WHAT HE CAN NEVER WORK AGAIN? And HE DID HIS TIME! That's my point as best as I can explain it. Hope it makes sense.
12/4/19 4:57 PM
12/2/05
Posts: 85364

And I've been nothing but polite to you, I would like to request the same instead of saying I'm being dumb and all that.

12/4/19 4:57 PM
11/5/19
Posts: 267
D241 - 

I will say though, going back to see LilBrock2 and CaptainWoody's initial response to verify they immediately were here to start a shit talking battle rather than a civil debate, I stumbled across this comment from CaptainWoody and come on......even I can admit this was funny right here-


CaptainWoody -
HoneyGlazedJinx -
You idiot who shoot Coyotes on the weekend need to just shut the fuck up. You're no better than Michael Vick.


What if it's a Wednesday?

 


Oh fn wahhh. "No one will have a civil debate with me."

As you continue to lie, and then refuse to acknowledge your lies. Cry more.
12/4/19 4:59 PM
12/2/05
Posts: 85365
LILBROCK2 - 
Fake Pie - 
LILBROCK2 - 
Fake Pie - 
LILBROCK2 -
D241 - 
LILBROCK2 - 
D241 - 

I understand people will have different opinions.

 

What my issue is, is how the basis of their opinions, their logic, is not consistent.

 

The NFL has permanently banned Ray Rice, and shunned him for his off the field actions, which his punishment and crimes were not nearly as high as what Vick's were.  To my understanding Ray Rice and his girlfriend are still together, but Ray Rice isn't being endorsed by the league, but Michael Vick is.

 

No one seems to be addressing this disparity.  If you're okay with Michael Vick being an NFL commentator, and being asked to be an NFL honorary pro bowl legends coach, then if you are consistent, you would suggest that Ray Rice has served his punishment, seems to have shown remorse, and should be re-instated by the NFL.

 

No one is saying that though, are they?

 

My other issue is lack of consistency for those who cite "it was the culture".  How far does "it's the culture" excuse expand?  Is the cutoff dogfighting?  Because I sure don't see anyone making excuses for child molesters who were molested themselves as a child.  I don't see gang bangers who get locked up for murder in the streets of Chicago saying, "well it's just the culture they come from".

 

 

Michael Vick is a free man, he served his time.  I get that.  Why does he have to be involved in the NFL after his career?


Source Rice is banned from the NFL?

Has he ever attempted to obtain a commentator or coach position?

Did Rice serve his punishment? If so what was it?

List all his efforts to decrease domestic violence since completing knocking a female unconscious and dragging her around by her hair.

Source?  https://time.com/3329351/ray-rice-timeline/

 

The more appropriate question, is has anyone offered, which you can take a wild stab at that one.

 

Yes and no.  No because he avoided trial.  What Ray Rice did, didn't even go to trial where as Vick, the guy you are defending for several pages, went to prison, for 23 months.  Rice however, was asked to complete a year long anger management course which he successfully completed.

 

According to the CBS report, the NFL confirmed that Ray Rice works with the league on its domestic violence education program

 

 

"They're trying to do the right thing ... I know they are working with groups to try to get more of an understanding. And they're doing the work. ... I know the NFL

 

 

So there you have it.  What crime had more punishment Ray Rice or Michael Vick? Michael Vick.  

Is there evidence both have done things for the cause they originally were in trouble for?  Yes.

Were they both banned from the league?  No, only Ray Rice was.

Has the league done anything to celebrate what Rice did on the field? No

Has the league done anyting to celebrate what Vick did on the field?  Yes.

 


Again, source he is banned from the nfl?

And I guess if you're saying running a dog fighting operation is way worse than beating the ever loving fuck out of women, I guess that says a lot about you. Maybe some therapy would help

Yes murdering multiple animals is worse than punching a woman once. She even admits she was the aggressor. 


Oh so she deserved it? Yes completely justified violent felony assault

Why put words in people's mouths? You keep doing that. Show me where I said that. I said THE WIFE said she was the aggressor. That is something she said. Legally, what he did could probably be classified as self defense if you watched the video. I don't agree with it, but that is what it is. And no, I do not think she deserved it at all.

She has come out and said she was in an abusive relationship. You saying it happened once is interesting because it's almost like you claim it's fact.

And you can have your opinion. I'd say felony domestic violence (which can and does lead to human deaths) is worse than running a dog fighting ring, which was legal in our country in the previous 40 years.

What felony was he charged with? Marital rape was also legal in our country in the previous 40 years.
12/4/19 5:00 PM
2/5/06
Posts: 39555

Damn it, I have to go. I'll reply to that.