OtherGround Forums Michael Vick, in case you forgot

12/4/19 6:48 PM
12/2/05
Posts: 85383
LILBROCK2 - 
Fake Pie - I mean is it so bad to speak normally to people? You cockfaggot!

To a guy that continually lies, and intentionally posts dishonestly, no I will not. On the next thread I'll let it go, but as long as he continues to act like a lying faggot on this thread, I'll continue to treat him like a douche.

And you can feel free to quit acting like a white knight fag too if you're going to have no problem calling me out, but ignore his blatant lying because you agree with his stance.

I don't really have an opinion on it is why I haven't chimed in either way on that debate. I think you are technically correct the NFL suspension is over, as they can't indefinitely ban someone. That said, I think he is probably correct that the NFL has probably blackballed him unofficially. Either way, I just don't really care. It seems like most people are saying they'd be OK with Rice being back in the NFL so that's a consistent position anyhow.
12/4/19 6:52 PM
3/29/13
Posts: 5634
LILBROCK2 -
Fake Pie - I mean is it so bad to speak normally to people? You cockfaggot!

To a guy that continually lies, and intentionally posts dishonestly, no I will not. On the next thread I'll let it go, but as long as he continues to act like a lying faggot on this thread, I'll continue to treat him like a douche.

And you can feel free to quit acting like a white knight fag too if you're going to have no problem calling me out, but ignore his blatant lying because you agree with his stance.

So did you get banned for trolling or what?

12/4/19 7:12 PM
11/5/19
Posts: 277
Fake Pie - 
LILBROCK2 - 
Fake Pie - I mean is it so bad to speak normally to people? You cockfaggot!

To a guy that continually lies, and intentionally posts dishonestly, no I will not. On the next thread I'll let it go, but as long as he continues to act like a lying faggot on this thread, I'll continue to treat him like a douche.

And you can feel free to quit acting like a white knight fag too if you're going to have no problem calling me out, but ignore his blatant lying because you agree with his stance.

I don't really have an opinion on it is why I haven't chimed in either way on that debate. I think you are technically correct the NFL suspension is over, as they can't indefinitely ban someone. That said, I think he is probably correct that the NFL has probably blackballed him unofficially. Either way, I just don't really care. It seems like most people are saying they'd be OK with Rice being back in the NFL so that's a consistent position anyhow.

I don't think so. That incident happened so they had to cut him. No team was going to pick him up with felony charges still pending, which went on for a year during his program. When eligible again, he hadn't played in 1.5 years, had a terrible year the last one he played, and had the stigma of being a woman beater. I can assure you if it happened with Zeke, mccaffrey, etc...they wouldn't be blackballed. They're still good. Now frank Gore? He'd prob never get signed again
12/4/19 7:27 PM
5/13/11
Posts: 54291
LILBROCK2 -
Fake Pie - I mean is it so bad to speak normally to people? You cockfaggot!

To a guy that continually lies, and intentionally posts dishonestly, no I will not. On the next thread I'll let it go, but as long as he continues to act like a lying faggot on this thread, I'll continue to treat him like a douche.

And you can feel free to quit acting like a white knight fag too if you're going to have no problem calling me out, but ignore his blatant lying because you agree with his stance.

You've lied repeatedly in this thread, and even put shit in quotes posters didn't say. Over and over you put words in people's mouths, and never address doing it or your own lying. The irony of you melting down and crying that other posters lie is adorable. 

 

Hold yourself to the same fake standards you want to hold others to. Twat waffle.  

12/4/19 9:15 PM
1/9/02
Posts: 50110
Fake Pie -
LILBROCK2 -
D241 - 
LILBROCK2 - 
D241 - 

I understand people will have different opinions.

 

What my issue is, is how the basis of their opinions, their logic, is not consistent.

 

The NFL has permanently banned Ray Rice, and shunned him for his off the field actions, which his punishment and crimes were not nearly as high as what Vick's were.  To my understanding Ray Rice and his girlfriend are still together, but Ray Rice isn't being endorsed by the league, but Michael Vick is.

 

No one seems to be addressing this disparity.  If you're okay with Michael Vick being an NFL commentator, and being asked to be an NFL honorary pro bowl legends coach, then if you are consistent, you would suggest that Ray Rice has served his punishment, seems to have shown remorse, and should be re-instated by the NFL.

 

No one is saying that though, are they?

 

My other issue is lack of consistency for those who cite "it was the culture".  How far does "it's the culture" excuse expand?  Is the cutoff dogfighting?  Because I sure don't see anyone making excuses for child molesters who were molested themselves as a child.  I don't see gang bangers who get locked up for murder in the streets of Chicago saying, "well it's just the culture they come from".

 

 

Michael Vick is a free man, he served his time.  I get that.  Why does he have to be involved in the NFL after his career?


Source Rice is banned from the NFL?

Has he ever attempted to obtain a commentator or coach position?

Did Rice serve his punishment? If so what was it?

List all his efforts to decrease domestic violence since completing knocking a female unconscious and dragging her around by her hair.

Source?  https://time.com/3329351/ray-rice-timeline/

 

The more appropriate question, is has anyone offered, which you can take a wild stab at that one.

 

Yes and no.  No because he avoided trial.  What Ray Rice did, didn't even go to trial where as Vick, the guy you are defending for several pages, went to prison, for 23 months.  Rice however, was asked to complete a year long anger management course which he successfully completed.

 

According to the CBS report, the NFL confirmed that Ray Rice works with the league on its domestic violence education program

 

 

"They're trying to do the right thing ... I know they are working with groups to try to get more of an understanding. And they're doing the work. ... I know the NFL

 

 

So there you have it.  What crime had more punishment Ray Rice or Michael Vick? Michael Vick.  

Is there evidence both have done things for the cause they originally were in trouble for?  Yes.

Were they both banned from the league?  No, only Ray Rice was.

Has the league done anything to celebrate what Rice did on the field? No

Has the league done anyting to celebrate what Vick did on the field?  Yes.

 


Again, source he is banned from the nfl?

And I guess if you're saying running a dog fighting operation is way worse than beating the ever loving fuck out of women, I guess that says a lot about you. Maybe some therapy would help

Yes murdering multiple animals is worse than punching a woman once. She even admits she was the aggressor. 

how is killing fighting pitbulls worse than beating the shit out of a woman?

 

 

i cant fathom some of your values

they're just dogs, they're not ppl

 

 

12/4/19 9:19 PM
1/9/02
Posts: 50111

over a million ppl are admitted for dog bites in the US and 49 ppl were killed in 2017 because of their parasitic pet that they have a ridiculous emotional attachment too

 

those pitbulls he killed had it coming.

12/4/19 9:20 PM
1/9/02
Posts: 50112

https://www.dogsbite.org/dog-bite-statistics-fatalities-2017.php

 

educate yourself ppl. dogs are not our friends

12/4/19 9:46 PM
2/5/06
Posts: 39556
D241 - 

Fake Pie.  I really appreciate the post you have added in this thread.  You clearly have more tolerance for negativity and toxic people than I do. 

 

All I see is you trying to state a point without attacking, yet you continue to get attacked.  You can give credit on post from the opposing side, but none will ever be given back.  

 

I highly suggest you follow my lead.

 


Come on man,

You haven't been entirely kind to my posts either. I am making real arguments, not just attacking or or calling you names. Some of the things I've said you've just ignored and then dropped.....like your "condone" question or your ray rice was banned for life post I broke down.

I'm fully capable of being civil, my very first post was talking about your OP and the emotional and incorrect content of "crying dogs"

I'll extend the olive branch....I apologize for calling you names and being snarky with some replies.
12/4/19 10:32 PM
12/2/05
Posts: 85384
gregbrady -
Fake Pie -
LILBROCK2 -
D241 - 
LILBROCK2 - 
D241 - 

I understand people will have different opinions.

 

What my issue is, is how the basis of their opinions, their logic, is not consistent.

 

The NFL has permanently banned Ray Rice, and shunned him for his off the field actions, which his punishment and crimes were not nearly as high as what Vick's were.  To my understanding Ray Rice and his girlfriend are still together, but Ray Rice isn't being endorsed by the league, but Michael Vick is.

 

No one seems to be addressing this disparity.  If you're okay with Michael Vick being an NFL commentator, and being asked to be an NFL honorary pro bowl legends coach, then if you are consistent, you would suggest that Ray Rice has served his punishment, seems to have shown remorse, and should be re-instated by the NFL.

 

No one is saying that though, are they?

 

My other issue is lack of consistency for those who cite "it was the culture".  How far does "it's the culture" excuse expand?  Is the cutoff dogfighting?  Because I sure don't see anyone making excuses for child molesters who were molested themselves as a child.  I don't see gang bangers who get locked up for murder in the streets of Chicago saying, "well it's just the culture they come from".

 

 

Michael Vick is a free man, he served his time.  I get that.  Why does he have to be involved in the NFL after his career?


Source Rice is banned from the NFL?

Has he ever attempted to obtain a commentator or coach position?

Did Rice serve his punishment? If so what was it?

List all his efforts to decrease domestic violence since completing knocking a female unconscious and dragging her around by her hair.

Source?  https://time.com/3329351/ray-rice-timeline/

 

The more appropriate question, is has anyone offered, which you can take a wild stab at that one.

 

Yes and no.  No because he avoided trial.  What Ray Rice did, didn't even go to trial where as Vick, the guy you are defending for several pages, went to prison, for 23 months.  Rice however, was asked to complete a year long anger management course which he successfully completed.

 

According to the CBS report, the NFL confirmed that Ray Rice works with the league on its domestic violence education program

 

 

"They're trying to do the right thing ... I know they are working with groups to try to get more of an understanding. And they're doing the work. ... I know the NFL

 

 

So there you have it.  What crime had more punishment Ray Rice or Michael Vick? Michael Vick.  

Is there evidence both have done things for the cause they originally were in trouble for?  Yes.

Were they both banned from the league?  No, only Ray Rice was.

Has the league done anything to celebrate what Rice did on the field? No

Has the league done anyting to celebrate what Vick did on the field?  Yes.

 


Again, source he is banned from the nfl?

And I guess if you're saying running a dog fighting operation is way worse than beating the ever loving fuck out of women, I guess that says a lot about you. Maybe some therapy would help

Yes murdering multiple animals is worse than punching a woman once. She even admits she was the aggressor. 

how is killing fighting pitbulls worse than beating the shit out of a woman?

 

 

i cant fathom some of your values

they're just dogs, they're not ppl

 

 

Not going to debate it with you. Everyone has their own value system. 

12/4/19 10:56 PM
2/5/06
Posts: 39557
Fake Pie - 
CaptainWoody - 
Fake Pie - 
CaptainWoody -
D241 - 
Fake Pie - 
donkypunch55 -

I think he's a reprehensible person for what he did.  
I also think he's paid for it and deserves to be able to move on and make a living.

No need for the two opinions to be mutually exclusive.

Again no one is saying he shouldn't make a living. 

 

How far does the he's paid for it thing go?  Would you say that about Jared when he gets out if he starts speaking out against pedos? 


I know you quoted donkypunch, but everyone defending Vick can also see this point you are making and I just want to say, you are not the only one to take notice that not a single person is going out of there way to try to answer that.

 

They don't want to realize they hypocrisy in their own stance.  


Are you two so mentally retarded that you cannot see the difference in dogs and human children?

If there's no difference to you and you think you're comparing apples to apples, I think we can just end this conversation.

Well that's the point though. People saying he did his time and not qualifying it and saying well some crimes shouldn't be forgiven. If you agree with the latter statement, guess what point this thread is making? 


10 pages and you've reduced it down to "The crime he did shouldn't be forgiven", that's the point of the thread now? The point of the thread and OP is that he shouldn't be on TV.

You keep reminding us "He can do other jobs" "We're not saying he shouldn't be able to work elsewhere and make a living"

Why should he be able to do those other jobs and make a living? He committed an unforgivable crime to you. Why talk about the NFL and TV? That's secondary, shouldn't your argument be he should be in prison for the rest of his life? That's what we do with people who commit unforgivable crimes.


You're moving the goalpost now because you made a really dumb comparison between dogs and children to try and make a point.

I guess I thought this was clear enough but sorry if not. I will try again:

You clearly also think there are crimes bad enough that someone should not get high profile jobs, but you probably would still want them to work some sort of honest job when they are out of jail. Like I bet you think Jared could be a janitor (obviously not at a school) when he gets out, but I bet if he did n anti pedo advocacy, you still wouldn't want anyone paying him millions in a cush media job or making him a spokesman again, correct?

NO I AM NOT COMPARING WHAT VICK DID TO MOLESTATION. I am using an extreme example to make the point.

So to me, what Vick did crosses that line. Obviously not to you. If you agree with the Jared example though, you clearly agree with the premise, you just don't think Vick crossed the line, so we can stop saying crap like WHAT HE CAN NEVER WORK AGAIN? And HE DID HIS TIME! That's my point as best as I can explain it. Hope it makes sense.

All right, here we go.

I don't agree with your "high profile jobs" point.

I understand your point, and agree with the "basic" premise. It's a conditions upon release like argument.

We don't need to take it to an extreme. Child molesters commit unforgivable crimes, they should rot in prison for life in my opinion. We can use other scenarios. I don't believe a pharmacist who stole then sold drugs should be able to go back into pharmacy. I don't believe an accountant who embezzled money should be able to handle a business's finances. And I don't believe Vick should be able to manage an animal shelter or be a dog breeder.

The crimes he committed have nothing to do with his profession, if he was convicted of betting on games and then throwing those games...I'd say he shouldn't be anywhere near the sport. If a plumber was busted for what Vick did, should he not be able to go back into plumbing to make a living?

So "high profile"?....He IS high profile, he can't avoid that, he can't work in his profession that had nothing to do with his crimes without being high profile. Honestly, What is he going to do? He knows one thing his entire life. If he is a free man, he should be able to make the best living he can with what he knows best as long as someone is willing to employ him. His employers clearly believe he is a changed man and his actions and behavior after his release are sufficient to them that his services, including his name are wanted and employable. Do you think if he was still acting like a drug dealing, dog killing piece of shit he would have these jobs? Of course not. Whether it's an act or not is between him and "God", believing it is just an act is simply an assumption with no basis...It could be correct, he could get busted tomorrow for some shit but we, I, you, us,... can't go around judging people on a baseless assumptions, that's not a way to live imo.
12/4/19 11:13 PM
11/20/09
Posts: 41909
CaptainWoody - 
Fake Pie - 
CaptainWoody - 
Fake Pie - 
CaptainWoody -
D241 - 
Fake Pie - 
donkypunch55 -

I think he's a reprehensible person for what he did.  
I also think he's paid for it and deserves to be able to move on and make a living.

No need for the two opinions to be mutually exclusive.

Again no one is saying he shouldn't make a living. 

 

How far does the he's paid for it thing go?  Would you say that about Jared when he gets out if he starts speaking out against pedos? 


I know you quoted donkypunch, but everyone defending Vick can also see this point you are making and I just want to say, you are not the only one to take notice that not a single person is going out of there way to try to answer that.

 

They don't want to realize they hypocrisy in their own stance.  


Are you two so mentally retarded that you cannot see the difference in dogs and human children?

If there's no difference to you and you think you're comparing apples to apples, I think we can just end this conversation.

Well that's the point though. People saying he did his time and not qualifying it and saying well some crimes shouldn't be forgiven. If you agree with the latter statement, guess what point this thread is making? 


10 pages and you've reduced it down to "The crime he did shouldn't be forgiven", that's the point of the thread now? The point of the thread and OP is that he shouldn't be on TV.

You keep reminding us "He can do other jobs" "We're not saying he shouldn't be able to work elsewhere and make a living"

Why should he be able to do those other jobs and make a living? He committed an unforgivable crime to you. Why talk about the NFL and TV? That's secondary, shouldn't your argument be he should be in prison for the rest of his life? That's what we do with people who commit unforgivable crimes.


You're moving the goalpost now because you made a really dumb comparison between dogs and children to try and make a point.

I guess I thought this was clear enough but sorry if not. I will try again:

You clearly also think there are crimes bad enough that someone should not get high profile jobs, but you probably would still want them to work some sort of honest job when they are out of jail. Like I bet you think Jared could be a janitor (obviously not at a school) when he gets out, but I bet if he did n anti pedo advocacy, you still wouldn't want anyone paying him millions in a cush media job or making him a spokesman again, correct?

NO I AM NOT COMPARING WHAT VICK DID TO MOLESTATION. I am using an extreme example to make the point.

So to me, what Vick did crosses that line. Obviously not to you. If you agree with the Jared example though, you clearly agree with the premise, you just don't think Vick crossed the line, so we can stop saying crap like WHAT HE CAN NEVER WORK AGAIN? And HE DID HIS TIME! That's my point as best as I can explain it. Hope it makes sense.

All right, here we go.

I don't agree with your "high profile jobs" point.

I understand your point, and agree with the "basic" premise. It's a conditions upon release like argument.

We don't need to take it to an extreme. Child molesters commit unforgivable crimes, they should rot in prison for life in my opinion. We can use other scenarios. I don't believe a pharmacist who stole then sold drugs should be able to go back into pharmacy. I don't believe an accountant who embezzled money should be able to handle a business's finances. And I don't believe Vick should be able to manage an animal shelter or be a dog breeder.

The crimes he committed have nothing to do with his profession, if he was convicted of betting on games and then throwing those games...I'd say he shouldn't be anywhere near the sport. If a plumber was busted for what Vick did, should he not be able to go back into plumbing to make a living?

So "high profile"?....He IS high profile, he can't avoid that, he can't work in his profession that had nothing to do with his crimes without being high profile. Honestly, What is he going to do? He knows one thing his entire life. If he is a free man, he should be able to make the best living he can with what he knows best as long as someone is willing to employ him. His employers clearly believe he is a changed man and his actions and behavior after his release are sufficient to them that his services, including his name are wanted and employable. Do you think if he was still acting like a drug dealing, dog killing piece of shit he would have these jobs? Of course not. Whether it's an act or not is between him and "God", believing it is just an act is simply an assumption with no basis...It could be correct, he could get busted tomorrow for some shit but we, I, you, us,... can't go around judging people on a baseless assumptions, that's not a way to live imo.

As you all can figure this topic is running it's course with me(I'm growing tired of it), but I just want to point out that this, THIS, is how you debate.  Absolutely zero personal attacks, you kept to your point.  That's how you interact, if you want to make a difference.

I will go so far as to say, while there are some things I disagree with in your post, in the 12 pages of this thread, how you expressed your opinion, how you refrained from personal attacks, and the actual point you are expressing, is probably the best I have seen from the other side I disagree with up to this point.

 

Granted there are a couple members here who I won't ever see them post anymore(good riddance), I don't regret not putting you on my ignore list.

12/4/19 11:22 PM
1/18/12
Posts: 7045

Didnt know he was slamming them dead and drowning them.

 

i dont care how much time he did, or how bad he feels about it. He is a life long sack of shit and i wish him nothing but the fucking worst.

They ought to set 5 police shepards on this clown and then not drag them off.  

12/4/19 11:39 PM
2/5/06
Posts: 39558
D241 - 
CaptainWoody - 
Fake Pie - 
CaptainWoody - 
Fake Pie - 
CaptainWoody -
D241 - 
Fake Pie - 
donkypunch55 -

I think he's a reprehensible person for what he did.  
I also think he's paid for it and deserves to be able to move on and make a living.

No need for the two opinions to be mutually exclusive.

Again no one is saying he shouldn't make a living. 

 

How far does the he's paid for it thing go?  Would you say that about Jared when he gets out if he starts speaking out against pedos? 


I know you quoted donkypunch, but everyone defending Vick can also see this point you are making and I just want to say, you are not the only one to take notice that not a single person is going out of there way to try to answer that.

 

They don't want to realize they hypocrisy in their own stance.  


Are you two so mentally retarded that you cannot see the difference in dogs and human children?

If there's no difference to you and you think you're comparing apples to apples, I think we can just end this conversation.

Well that's the point though. People saying he did his time and not qualifying it and saying well some crimes shouldn't be forgiven. If you agree with the latter statement, guess what point this thread is making? 


10 pages and you've reduced it down to "The crime he did shouldn't be forgiven", that's the point of the thread now? The point of the thread and OP is that he shouldn't be on TV.

You keep reminding us "He can do other jobs" "We're not saying he shouldn't be able to work elsewhere and make a living"

Why should he be able to do those other jobs and make a living? He committed an unforgivable crime to you. Why talk about the NFL and TV? That's secondary, shouldn't your argument be he should be in prison for the rest of his life? That's what we do with people who commit unforgivable crimes.


You're moving the goalpost now because you made a really dumb comparison between dogs and children to try and make a point.

I guess I thought this was clear enough but sorry if not. I will try again:

You clearly also think there are crimes bad enough that someone should not get high profile jobs, but you probably would still want them to work some sort of honest job when they are out of jail. Like I bet you think Jared could be a janitor (obviously not at a school) when he gets out, but I bet if he did n anti pedo advocacy, you still wouldn't want anyone paying him millions in a cush media job or making him a spokesman again, correct?

NO I AM NOT COMPARING WHAT VICK DID TO MOLESTATION. I am using an extreme example to make the point.

So to me, what Vick did crosses that line. Obviously not to you. If you agree with the Jared example though, you clearly agree with the premise, you just don't think Vick crossed the line, so we can stop saying crap like WHAT HE CAN NEVER WORK AGAIN? And HE DID HIS TIME! That's my point as best as I can explain it. Hope it makes sense.

All right, here we go.

I don't agree with your "high profile jobs" point.

I understand your point, and agree with the "basic" premise. It's a conditions upon release like argument.

We don't need to take it to an extreme. Child molesters commit unforgivable crimes, they should rot in prison for life in my opinion. We can use other scenarios. I don't believe a pharmacist who stole then sold drugs should be able to go back into pharmacy. I don't believe an accountant who embezzled money should be able to handle a business's finances. And I don't believe Vick should be able to manage an animal shelter or be a dog breeder.

The crimes he committed have nothing to do with his profession, if he was convicted of betting on games and then throwing those games...I'd say he shouldn't be anywhere near the sport. If a plumber was busted for what Vick did, should he not be able to go back into plumbing to make a living?

So "high profile"?....He IS high profile, he can't avoid that, he can't work in his profession that had nothing to do with his crimes without being high profile. Honestly, What is he going to do? He knows one thing his entire life. If he is a free man, he should be able to make the best living he can with what he knows best as long as someone is willing to employ him. His employers clearly believe he is a changed man and his actions and behavior after his release are sufficient to them that his services, including his name are wanted and employable. Do you think if he was still acting like a drug dealing, dog killing piece of shit he would have these jobs? Of course not. Whether it's an act or not is between him and "God", believing it is just an act is simply an assumption with no basis...It could be correct, he could get busted tomorrow for some shit but we, I, you, us,... can't go around judging people on a baseless assumptions, that's not a way to live imo.

As you all can figure this topic is running it's course with me(I'm growing tired of it), but I just want to point out that this, THIS, is how you debate.  Absolutely zero personal attacks, you kept to your point.  That's how you interact, if you want to make a difference.

I will go so far as to say, while there are some things I disagree with in your post, in the 12 pages of this thread, how you expressed your opinion, how you refrained from personal attacks, and the actual point you are expressing, is probably the best I have seen from the other side I disagree with up to this point.

 

Granted there are a couple members here who I won't ever see them post anymore(good riddance), I don't regret not putting you on my ignore list.


See, I can be civil :)


This thread took all kinds turns, there's been bad back and forth's which you and I were both a part of....good and terrible points made on both sides. and some civil discussion.


There's a lot of dead shit on here, not too much topical discussions/arguments/debates that isn't about political Right/Left crap or stupid troll like threads.

12 pages, good thread man
12/4/19 11:56 PM
12/2/05
Posts: 85385
CaptainWoody -
Fake Pie - 
CaptainWoody - 
Fake Pie - 
CaptainWoody -
D241 - 
Fake Pie - 
donkypunch55 -

I think he's a reprehensible person for what he did.  
I also think he's paid for it and deserves to be able to move on and make a living.

No need for the two opinions to be mutually exclusive.

Again no one is saying he shouldn't make a living. 

 

How far does the he's paid for it thing go?  Would you say that about Jared when he gets out if he starts speaking out against pedos? 


I know you quoted donkypunch, but everyone defending Vick can also see this point you are making and I just want to say, you are not the only one to take notice that not a single person is going out of there way to try to answer that.

 

They don't want to realize they hypocrisy in their own stance.  


Are you two so mentally retarded that you cannot see the difference in dogs and human children?

If there's no difference to you and you think you're comparing apples to apples, I think we can just end this conversation.

Well that's the point though. People saying he did his time and not qualifying it and saying well some crimes shouldn't be forgiven. If you agree with the latter statement, guess what point this thread is making? 


10 pages and you've reduced it down to "The crime he did shouldn't be forgiven", that's the point of the thread now? The point of the thread and OP is that he shouldn't be on TV.

You keep reminding us "He can do other jobs" "We're not saying he shouldn't be able to work elsewhere and make a living"

Why should he be able to do those other jobs and make a living? He committed an unforgivable crime to you. Why talk about the NFL and TV? That's secondary, shouldn't your argument be he should be in prison for the rest of his life? That's what we do with people who commit unforgivable crimes.


You're moving the goalpost now because you made a really dumb comparison between dogs and children to try and make a point.

I guess I thought this was clear enough but sorry if not. I will try again:

You clearly also think there are crimes bad enough that someone should not get high profile jobs, but you probably would still want them to work some sort of honest job when they are out of jail. Like I bet you think Jared could be a janitor (obviously not at a school) when he gets out, but I bet if he did n anti pedo advocacy, you still wouldn't want anyone paying him millions in a cush media job or making him a spokesman again, correct?

NO I AM NOT COMPARING WHAT VICK DID TO MOLESTATION. I am using an extreme example to make the point.

So to me, what Vick did crosses that line. Obviously not to you. If you agree with the Jared example though, you clearly agree with the premise, you just don't think Vick crossed the line, so we can stop saying crap like WHAT HE CAN NEVER WORK AGAIN? And HE DID HIS TIME! That's my point as best as I can explain it. Hope it makes sense.

All right, here we go.

I don't agree with your "high profile jobs" point.

I understand your point, and agree with the "basic" premise. It's a conditions upon release like argument.

We don't need to take it to an extreme. Child molesters commit unforgivable crimes, they should rot in prison for life in my opinion. We can use other scenarios. I don't believe a pharmacist who stole then sold drugs should be able to go back into pharmacy. I don't believe an accountant who embezzled money should be able to handle a business's finances. And I don't believe Vick should be able to manage an animal shelter or be a dog breeder.

The crimes he committed have nothing to do with his profession, if he was convicted of betting on games and then throwing those games...I'd say he shouldn't be anywhere near the sport. If a plumber was busted for what Vick did, should he not be able to go back into plumbing to make a living?

So "high profile"?....He IS high profile, he can't avoid that, he can't work in his profession that had nothing to do with his crimes without being high profile. Honestly, What is he going to do? He knows one thing his entire life. If he is a free man, he should be able to make the best living he can with what he knows best as long as someone is willing to employ him. His employers clearly believe he is a changed man and his actions and behavior after his release are sufficient to them that his services, including his name are wanted and employable. Do you think if he was still acting like a drug dealing, dog killing piece of shit he would have these jobs? Of course not. Whether it's an act or not is between him and "God", believing it is just an act is simply an assumption with no basis...It could be correct, he could get busted tomorrow for some shit but we, I, you, us,... can't go around judging people on a baseless assumptions, that's not a way to live imo.

I agree with your thoughts about the crime relating to the job that obviously makes sense. For me the reason to apply it to high profile type jobs is because who would want to be associated with the guy. No one would want to associate with Jared. And he will get out of jail and he will be eligible for jobs. But who would want to be associated with him? I think Vick should be relegated to jobs that shitty felons can normally get. 

 

But I get your POV. I just disagree. Again to me he crossed that line. He should go work in a kitchen or clean toilets :) obviously it isn't up to me. 

12/5/19 12:05 AM
2/5/06
Posts: 39559
We Are All One Mean Species - I dont know if this was posted on this thread but..

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/21447070/michael-vick-makes-final-payment-clear-more-17-million-debt

I dont know what kind of person he was before the animal abuse arrest and conviction. But everything he has done afterwards seems to be of a man with good conscience.

And big picture, he probably did more good to stop dog fighting in inner cities than a thousand PETA campaigns.

That's actually pretty nuts

 

Former NFL quarterback Michael Vick made the final $1.5 million payment to creditors on Thursday, meaning he paid back $17.4 million of the $17.6 million that he owed when he filed for bankruptcy in July 2008.

The payment and final payouts were confirmed by Joseph Luzinski, a senior vice president at Development Specialists Inc., a management consultancy firm and the liquidating trustee in Vick's bankruptcy.

"Paying 99 cents on the dollar, which he did, is remarkable," Luzinski said. "It happens in, maybe, one out of 100 cases."

Vick elected to file for Chapter 11 bankruptcy instead of Chapter 7, which would have allowed him to liquidate his assets and not owe any more. Vick, who served 548 days in jail for taking part in an illegal dogfighting ring, took the rare step of kicking in future income to pay off his creditors.

"I didn't want to stiff people who never stiffed me," Vick told ESPN in 2014.

12/5/19 12:07 AM
12/2/05
Posts: 85386

To clarify I meant like there are jobs where public perception of you as a person matters and then most regular jobs it really doesn't. That's all I meant by high profile. 

12/5/19 12:39 AM
6/27/15
Posts: 992
Fake Pie - 
anthonyMI -
Acidic -

Lol showed remorse?

to show remorse doesn't mean you're truest remorseful. He could have been acting. Getting caught was his only remorse 

He is now one of the most active people out there, at least visibly, who is working against dog fighting.

What he did was really awful, but that is what remorse looks like.

Most active how? 


That means he gets the most press.
12/5/19 12:55 AM
2/5/06
Posts: 39560
Fake Pie - 

To clarify I meant like there are jobs where public perception of you as a person matters and then most regular jobs it really doesn't. That's all I meant by high profile. 


If he had a car dealership would it not be high profile?

Could he have billboards? Commercials?

Are you saying he can't own a business of any kind? He can only be a low level employee?

Are you saying he has no right to his name or likeness?
12/5/19 1:02 AM
12/2/05
Posts: 85387
CaptainWoody -
Fake Pie - 

To clarify I meant like there are jobs where public perception of you as a person matters and then most regular jobs it really doesn't. That's all I meant by high profile. 


If he had a car dealership would it not be high profile?

Could he have billboards? Commercials?

Are you saying he can't own a business of any kind? He can only be a low level employee?

Are you saying he has no right to his name or likeness?

He has whatever rights he has. I'm saying I would think his name is so tarnished anything in the public eye would be out of bounds for any company but obviously that hasn't been the case. And yeah I wouldn't hire him for any of your examples and I already said I think he should be stuck with low level shit. 

12/5/19 1:03 AM
12/2/05
Posts: 85388

If he started a business I would hope people wouldn't buy from it. I would.hope no team or media would want to be associated with him, etc. Obviously that isn't what happened but I'm saying my opinion on it. 

12/5/19 1:31 AM
2/5/06
Posts: 39561
Fake Pie - 

If he started a business I would hope people wouldn't buy from it. I would.hope no team or media would want to be associated with him, etc. Obviously that isn't what happened but I'm saying my opinion on it. 


So what's the line?

Is Mark Wahlberg ok? Will Smith? 50 cent? Vince Neil?
12/5/19 2:14 AM
12/2/05
Posts: 85390
CaptainWoody -
Fake Pie - 

If he started a business I would hope people wouldn't buy from it. I would.hope no team or media would want to be associated with him, etc. Obviously that isn't what happened but I'm saying my opinion on it. 


So what's the line?

Is Mark Wahlberg ok? Will Smith? 50 cent? Vince Neil?

That's my point. Everyone has a line. Vicks over it for me. Im sure.there are people over yours. 

12/5/19 6:30 AM
3/23/05
Posts: 577

Also, don't forget that Ray Lewis murdered two people and got away with it. 

12/5/19 8:13 AM
11/5/19
Posts: 281
Samuraidog - 

Also, don't forget that Ray Lewis murdered two people and got away with it. 


No he committed obstruction of justice
12/5/19 8:54 AM
12/24/10
Posts: 4218
TFK_UGCTT_Sk1tzO420 -
Broadway Joe -

Who gives a shit?  He served his time. Move on. 

This. 

 

He showed true remorse for what he did and hasn't been in a stitch of trouble since. In fact, he helped get legislation past where watching dog fighting is actually a crime, while working closely with the Humane Society to rescue fighting dogs. 

Fuck off - So I go kill a few folks do  " some time" now its all fine? Anyone who has it in them to kill animals in the manner he did is a piece of shit. You just don't stop being that person. The only thing I can say at least he was smart enough to play the public to make some money and stay out of trouble