OtherGround Forums Michael Vick, in case you forgot

12/3/19 6:34 PM
11/20/09
Posts: 41877
sadic1 - People love to go full retard about animals, when much of the world still eats dogs.

Re-outraging now seems kind of pointless. Dogs mean different things to different people. To some, they are food, to some they are companions, and to some they are money. Dogfighting is definitely an ugly business, but outside of issues related to unreported taxable income, I don't think it warrants prison time. If you don't go to jail for stealing from a store, you shouldn't go jail for killing dogs. Hefty fine would have sufficed.

The part of the world that eats dogs, do you think they have laws forbidding it like we do?

 

That's a big difference people seem to be overlooking.

 

"It was just the culture he was brought up in".

 

How consistent does that logic go?  The worst part of Chicago, would it be fair to say that is a different culture than what you are used to?  Yes?  Great.  So if someone gang bangs and murders multiple people, but then serve time, all is forgiven because hey, it's just the culture they grew up in right?

 

Or does the logic end with dog fighting?

12/3/19 6:34 PM
12/26/05
Posts: 44118
Fake Pie -
Souljacker - 
Fake Pie - 
Souljacker - 
Fake Pie - 
Souljacker - 

I believe in redemption and Vick I believe fits it to a tee. If you don't want to forgive him or do not believe he is worthy I certainly get that, the shit he did was some of the absolute worst but if you look at what he has done since, listen to him speak now and since then, he has completely transformed and he a sincere and humble man

even when he has spoken on Kaepernick he talks about how you need to look at yourself and change things in you to make the world a better place. Could all the things he has done since he was released from prison be bullshit? Sure but if you really look into what he has done and then actually listen to him that is pretty hard to front

I thought I would hate that dude forever in all ways but he changed my mind but I can see how people don't want to give him a second chance but I do know he has done all he can to try and help people see a new Michael Vick


No one can know what is in his mind, but he didn't feel bad when he was literally killing dogs with his hands and they were whining and fighting not to die. He didn't feel bad when he complained about losing money outside the courtroom. He felt bad when it was best for him to say so so he could get jobs again. It could be genuine or it could be what he needed to do to make money again. I personally don't think it is genuine, but who can know. I also think what he has done for animals has been overstated.

you are smart enough to know that people almost never realize the shit in the moment as they do after the fact. I am not making any kind of excuses for him, only where he is now as to where he was then. I am also not just speaking what he has done for animal issues but just in general how seems to conduct his life and himslef now as to back then. I will not argue with anyone who doesn't believe he deserves a second chance, what he did was beyond bad


I'd be curious if he'd have kept doing all that shit if he never got the second shot at the NFL after BKing.

its like a dude that cheats and just thinks it is part of his life, he gets caught and finally realizes he will actually lose his wife, kids, etc, they will see things through difference lense. Most of the time people don't reach that point of realization until they are caught to make them see clearly


That's a perfect example of being remorseful about the consequences not the action.

If he hadn't been prosecuted, you think he would care?

Well there is a gray area there.

 

Some people really require social feedback more than others in order to decide what right and wrong is.  

 

This isnt dismissal of wrongdoing, just the fact that all of us require social feedback to do the right thing to some extent, and some of us much more than others.

 

For people who need very little, I think this can be really difficult to accept.  The truth is though, there are more weak, heavily socially reliant people than not.

12/3/19 6:44 PM
5/11/11
Posts: 2612
sadic1 - Back when people used to have more than 1.5 children, nobody would give a fuck. All peoples' wasted love goes to dogs instead of children now, which is nice for the pet with a 10 year lifespan, but doesn't do shit for the world. Luckily, the Muslims are picking up the slack by outbreeding the rest of the people in the world by a wide margin. Unfortunately, religious Muslims don't allow dogs in the house, so they will probably fuck with you over it after taxing and oppressing you.

Well this took a weird turn.

12/3/19 6:47 PM
1/18/12
Posts: 7036
Troll Hunter10 -

Lots of pitbulls are shitty. What Michael Vick did to pitbulls was shitty. Lots of pitbulls are shitty because of people like Michael Vick. Lots of pitbulls are just wired wrong and are shitty all on their own. 

This shit right here

12/3/19 6:50 PM
1/18/12
Posts: 7037

Anybody that shoots innocent bambis for weekend fun has no place commenting on Mike Vick.

At least he gave the dogs a fighting chance.

 

12/3/19 6:59 PM
5/7/08
Posts: 22498
thebehemoth73 -
CaptainWoody -
thebehemoth73 - 

So funny all you guys say he is a piece of shit but yeah when a pit bull bites a kid or another dog or whatever ppl say to get rid of the breed all together.... What is it ? Are you against  Vick or with pitbulls? Seems like a lot of grey area.


Are you not able to compartmentalize the difference?

Ppl on THIS forum say that pitbulls shouldn't exist. So why the fuck should they care what Vick does to these dogs ? I own 2 amstaffs and can't stand when ppl talk bad about the breed yet will bash the shit out of dog fighters. Ppl don't want the breed to exist. So they shouldn't care what he did. 

Dog fighting is disgusting and reprehensible.

Pitbulls are worthless and dangerous. They should be humanely eradicated.

There's no link between those 2 things.

12/3/19 7:05 PM
5/13/11
Posts: 54260
Forrest Spliffn -

Anybody that shoots innocent bambis for weekend fun has no place commenting on Mike Vick.

At least he gave the dogs a fighting chance.

 

I hope that's satire/trolling. 

12/3/19 7:47 PM
11/14/16
Posts: 2555
FETT_Lay'n'PrayNINJA -
Forrest Spliffn -

Anybody that shoots innocent bambis for weekend fun has no place commenting on Mike Vick.

At least he gave the dogs a fighting chance.

 

I hope that's satire/trolling. 

Gotta be a troll

12/3/19 7:49 PM
11/18/09
Posts: 11850
Fake Pie -
PhillyFights - 

I'm an Eagles fan who loves dogs. When they picked him up right outta jail, I was very conflicted. These are the things I have to remind myself:

He was sentenced to the longest jail sentence ever for that charge. 

He served his time. 2 years in Leavenworth ain't easy. He shouldn't be able to work now?

 He is now and has been since he was released, the biggest source of help against dog fighting. Yes obviously he had to do it but it's still true. He also did tons of charity work and speaking engagements in the communities that actually have dog fighting. Almost all done without news cameras. 

Thats spreading awareness. Vick has been responsible for putting so many more eyeballs on the dogfighting issue and except for those poor 6-8 dogs that were killed, in a weird way Vick was the best thing to ever happen to the anti-dogfighting issue. Laws have been made, sentencing guidelines changed, more funding, etc. Dont think 2 years in jail was long enough for what he did? Ok, but at the time that was the max judges could give. Now the penalties are much stiffer all because of the spotlight Vick put on the issue. 

Since he got out, he has caused zero problems and paid back his fines in whole. 

He is still a piece of shit human for what he did. But he did the time and comlplied with everything asked of him. Actually went above and beyond. He lost 2 years at his absolute physical prime while he was the highest paid player in the league. Again, he was a piece of shit. But he paid a big price. And if he was the guy selling popcorn, nobody would give a fuck if he just got out of jail. He did his time and was ready to work. 

I feel like I did a bad job explaining all this. Hopefully it makes some kind of sense. 

 

 


"He shouldn't be able to work now?"

Literally no one is saying that. Is there anything besides not being able to work and being able to make millions working first for an NFL team and now in sports media?

" the biggest source of help against dog fighting"

Why do people say this? How are you quantifying it?

" in a weird way Vick was the best thing to ever happen to the anti-dogfighting issue."

Sure and the Titanic put a spotlight on boat safety reforms.

"I feel like I did a bad job explaining all this. Hopefully it makes some kind of sense. "

It does make sense. My responses are not trying to say you are wrong, just giving my perspective.

"Literally no one is saying that. Is there anything besides not being able to work and being able to make millions working first for an NFL team and now in sports media?"

Are we talking about the same thing? Because I'm talking about 2009 when people were literally saying that, yes. I saw it firsthand in Philly. Plenty of people were saying that, in terms of playing football. And yeah, there are plenty of other outcomes that could have happened. But we left it up to the owners, and more than a few were willing to hire Vick. 

"Why do people say this? How are you quantifying it?"

 I say this because I'm Parroting what was on the local news at that time. I trust Jim Gardner. I don't know but I'm guessing they quantified thru comparing the amount of donations coming in and maybe also by the amount of coverage compared to before. Protests/marches and new charities popping up. I guess I could google all this, but I'm just being honest. Also, just because I took the news' word for it, doesn't mean they were wrong. 

And I know what you were going for, but I feel like you're proving my point. The Titanic did indeed put the spotlight on cruise ship safety. It actually created reform. Post Titanic, every cruise ship was required to sail with enough lifeboats for every passenger on board. Which the Titanic didn't, and resulted in many unnecessary deaths. I realize you were being sarcastic but I thought it was actually a good example. 

 

 

12/3/19 7:56 PM
1/1/01
Posts: 50983
Fake Pie - 
Souljacker - 
Fake Pie - 
Souljacker - 
Fake Pie - 
Souljacker - 

I believe in redemption and Vick I believe fits it to a tee. If you don't want to forgive him or do not believe he is worthy I certainly get that, the shit he did was some of the absolute worst but if you look at what he has done since, listen to him speak now and since then, he has completely transformed and he a sincere and humble man

even when he has spoken on Kaepernick he talks about how you need to look at yourself and change things in you to make the world a better place. Could all the things he has done since he was released from prison be bullshit? Sure but if you really look into what he has done and then actually listen to him that is pretty hard to front

I thought I would hate that dude forever in all ways but he changed my mind but I can see how people don't want to give him a second chance but I do know he has done all he can to try and help people see a new Michael Vick


No one can know what is in his mind, but he didn't feel bad when he was literally killing dogs with his hands and they were whining and fighting not to die. He didn't feel bad when he complained about losing money outside the courtroom. He felt bad when it was best for him to say so so he could get jobs again. It could be genuine or it could be what he needed to do to make money again. I personally don't think it is genuine, but who can know. I also think what he has done for animals has been overstated.

you are smart enough to know that people almost never realize the shit in the moment as they do after the fact. I am not making any kind of excuses for him, only where he is now as to where he was then. I am also not just speaking what he has done for animal issues but just in general how seems to conduct his life and himslef now as to back then. I will not argue with anyone who doesn't believe he deserves a second chance, what he did was beyond bad


I'd be curious if he'd have kept doing all that shit if he never got the second shot at the NFL after BKing.

its like a dude that cheats and just thinks it is part of his life, he gets caught and finally realizes he will actually lose his wife, kids, etc, they will see things through difference lense. Most of the time people don't reach that point of realization until they are caught to make them see clearly


That's a perfect example of being remorseful about the consequences not the action.

If he hadn't been prosecuted, you think he would care?

consequences are usually what make people see the errors of their ways, when they are in the moment of doing their bad shit and nothing is happening to them they really can't see clearly now can they? Again I am not trying to make excuses for people actions but that is pretty much the way humans work

12/3/19 9:12 PM
11/20/09
Posts: 41878
PhillyFights - 

I'm an Eagles fan who loves dogs. When they picked him up right outta jail, I was very conflicted. These are the things I have to remind myself:

He was sentenced to the longest jail sentence ever for that charge. 

He served his time. 2 years in Leavenworth ain't easy. He shouldn't be able to work now?

 He is now and has been since he was released, the biggest source of help against dog fighting. Yes obviously he had to do it but it's still true. He also did tons of charity work and speaking engagements in the communities that actually have dog fighting. Almost all done without news cameras. 

Thats spreading awareness. Vick has been responsible for putting so many more eyeballs on the dogfighting issue and except for those poor 6-8 dogs that were killed, in a weird way Vick was the best thing to ever happen to the anti-dogfighting issue. Laws have been made, sentencing guidelines changed, more funding, etc. Dont think 2 years in jail was long enough for what he did? Ok, but at the time that was the max judges could give. Now the penalties are much stiffer all because of the spotlight Vick put on the issue. 

Since he got out, he has caused zero problems and paid back his fines in whole. 

He is still a piece of shit human for what he did. But he did the time and comlplied with everything asked of him. Actually went above and beyond. He lost 2 years at his absolute physical prime while he was the highest paid player in the league. Again, he was a piece of shit. But he paid a big price. And if he was the guy selling popcorn, nobody would give a fuck if he just got out of jail. He did his time and was ready to work. 

I feel like I did a bad job explaining all this. Hopefully it makes some kind of sense. 

 

 


Can you please elaborate on tons of charity work?

 

I understand Vick has on 2 or 3 occassions been involved in animal rights, and these were WELL PUBLISIZED, but you seem to be under the impression he had done far more than what has been made public.  

 

I personally think the easy image to pull off to downplay things, would be to have Vick say the right things, be on video doing a small handful of good deeds, to perpetuate the image that Vick does nothing but try to help animals ever since his release.

 

A guy who fucks girls and infects them with STD's, doesn't tell the girls about it, instead lets them find out on their own, and when caught, still cares so much about his image he creates fake names, so that "Michael Vick" can still be looked at and respected.

12/3/19 9:18 PM
11/20/09
Posts: 41879
PhillyFights - 
Fake Pie -
PhillyFights - 

I'm an Eagles fan who loves dogs. When they picked him up right outta jail, I was very conflicted. These are the things I have to remind myself:

He was sentenced to the longest jail sentence ever for that charge. 

He served his time. 2 years in Leavenworth ain't easy. He shouldn't be able to work now?

 He is now and has been since he was released, the biggest source of help against dog fighting. Yes obviously he had to do it but it's still true. He also did tons of charity work and speaking engagements in the communities that actually have dog fighting. Almost all done without news cameras. 

Thats spreading awareness. Vick has been responsible for putting so many more eyeballs on the dogfighting issue and except for those poor 6-8 dogs that were killed, in a weird way Vick was the best thing to ever happen to the anti-dogfighting issue. Laws have been made, sentencing guidelines changed, more funding, etc. Dont think 2 years in jail was long enough for what he did? Ok, but at the time that was the max judges could give. Now the penalties are much stiffer all because of the spotlight Vick put on the issue. 

Since he got out, he has caused zero problems and paid back his fines in whole. 

He is still a piece of shit human for what he did. But he did the time and comlplied with everything asked of him. Actually went above and beyond. He lost 2 years at his absolute physical prime while he was the highest paid player in the league. Again, he was a piece of shit. But he paid a big price. And if he was the guy selling popcorn, nobody would give a fuck if he just got out of jail. He did his time and was ready to work. 

I feel like I did a bad job explaining all this. Hopefully it makes some kind of sense. 

 

 


"He shouldn't be able to work now?"

Literally no one is saying that. Is there anything besides not being able to work and being able to make millions working first for an NFL team and now in sports media?

" the biggest source of help against dog fighting"

Why do people say this? How are you quantifying it?

" in a weird way Vick was the best thing to ever happen to the anti-dogfighting issue."

Sure and the Titanic put a spotlight on boat safety reforms.

"I feel like I did a bad job explaining all this. Hopefully it makes some kind of sense. "

It does make sense. My responses are not trying to say you are wrong, just giving my perspective.

"Literally no one is saying that. Is there anything besides not being able to work and being able to make millions working first for an NFL team and now in sports media?"

Are we talking about the same thing? Because I'm talking about 2009 when people were literally saying that, yes. I saw it firsthand in Philly. Plenty of people were saying that, in terms of playing football. And yeah, there are plenty of other outcomes that could have happened. But we left it up to the owners, and more than a few were willing to hire Vick. 

"Why do people say this? How are you quantifying it?"

 I say this because I'm Parroting what was on the local news at that time. I trust Jim Gardner. I don't know but I'm guessing they quantified thru comparing the amount of donations coming in and maybe also by the amount of coverage compared to before. Protests/marches and new charities popping up. I guess I could google all this, but I'm just being honest. Also, just because I took the news' word for it, doesn't mean they were wrong. 

And I know what you were going for, but I feel like you're proving my point. The Titanic did indeed put the spotlight on cruise ship safety. It actually created reform. Post Titanic, every cruise ship was required to sail with enough lifeboats for every passenger on board. Which the Titanic didn't, and resulted in many unnecessary deaths. I realize you were being sarcastic but I thought it was actually a good example. 

 

 


I can somewhat understand the Titanic reference and how Vick and the dogfighting made it national news and created groups to help fight against dog fighting and animal abuse, but couldn't the same analogy be said for Jeffrey Epstein and molesting kids?

 

If this whole Jeffrey Epstein situation ends up having charity groups being created, more innocent children are saved because Jeffrey Epstein being caught, opened up the public's eyes to horrible crimes, do you think if Epstein was still alive, he would be able to be in the public spotlight like how Vick is?

 

No.  Maybe if he was famous for being on the cover of Madden and playing qb in a way no one else has, instead of being famous for billionaire money, the public outcry wouldn't have been so bad for him either, huh?

12/3/19 9:27 PM
8/20/15
Posts: 7309
baj54 -

He should have never been allowed to step unto another football field and make money. What kind of message do you send? You did your time but our ratings are shit so come on back and play! We forgive.you!

Shut up. He paid his dues for it. He advocates against it, when he doesn't have to. People make mistakes,.people do bad things. Does that define them? Or can we allow them to grow and be better. Learn from their mistakes?

If your kid beat the shit out of a mentally handicapped kid and made fun of him would you damn the kid forever, or still love him and hope he can change? I guess not from your emotions here. But I bet you would.

 

12/3/19 9:33 PM
11/18/09
Posts: 11852
D241 -
PhillyFights - 

I'm an Eagles fan who loves dogs. When they picked him up right outta jail, I was very conflicted. These are the things I have to remind myself:

He was sentenced to the longest jail sentence ever for that charge. 

He served his time. 2 years in Leavenworth ain't easy. He shouldn't be able to work now?

 He is now and has been since he was released, the biggest source of help against dog fighting. Yes obviously he had to do it but it's still true. He also did tons of charity work and speaking engagements in the communities that actually have dog fighting. Almost all done without news cameras. 

Thats spreading awareness. Vick has been responsible for putting so many more eyeballs on the dogfighting issue and except for those poor 6-8 dogs that were killed, in a weird way Vick was the best thing to ever happen to the anti-dogfighting issue. Laws have been made, sentencing guidelines changed, more funding, etc. Dont think 2 years in jail was long enough for what he did? Ok, but at the time that was the max judges could give. Now the penalties are much stiffer all because of the spotlight Vick put on the issue. 

Since he got out, he has caused zero problems and paid back his fines in whole. 

He is still a piece of shit human for what he did. But he did the time and comlplied with everything asked of him. Actually went above and beyond. He lost 2 years at his absolute physical prime while he was the highest paid player in the league. Again, he was a piece of shit. But he paid a big price. And if he was the guy selling popcorn, nobody would give a fuck if he just got out of jail. He did his time and was ready to work. 

I feel like I did a bad job explaining all this. Hopefully it makes some kind of sense. 

 

 


Can you please elaborate on tons of charity work?

 

I understand Vick has on 2 or 3 occassions been involved in animal rights, and these were WELL PUBLISIZED, but you seem to be under the impression he had done far more than what has been made public.  

 

I personally think the easy image to pull off to downplay things, would be to have Vick say the right things, be on video doing a small handful of good deeds, to perpetuate the image that Vick does nothing but try to help animals ever since his release.

 

A guy who fucks girls and infects them with STD's, doesn't tell the girls about it, instead lets them find out on their own, and when caught, still cares so much about his image he creates fake names, so that "Michael Vick" can still be looked at and respected.

I'm not gonna go googling around at the moment, but Vick was sentenced to a certain number of community service hours. Far more than 2 or 3 occasions could encompass. He spent all those hours speaking at kids schools and other places that I don't know off the top of my head. Much of it in Philadelphia, which is how I know much of it was done with no fanfare or media coverage. 

Also, per my first post, these are just the things I reminded myself of back then so I didn't hate him. I ain't dying on this hill tho. 

12/3/19 9:37 PM
5/30/05
Posts: 73402

I was livid when the Eagles signed him. What he did was disgusting. 

 

That said, that guy changed as a person from his past. He has legit remorse. He was the one who spoke up for Riley Cooper. He paid back millions of his debt. He isn't close to the same person who was involved in that stuff in the past. 

12/3/19 9:38 PM
11/18/09
Posts: 11853
D241 -
PhillyFights - 
Fake Pie -
PhillyFights - 

I'm an Eagles fan who loves dogs. When they picked him up right outta jail, I was very conflicted. These are the things I have to remind myself:

He was sentenced to the longest jail sentence ever for that charge. 

He served his time. 2 years in Leavenworth ain't easy. He shouldn't be able to work now?

 He is now and has been since he was released, the biggest source of help against dog fighting. Yes obviously he had to do it but it's still true. He also did tons of charity work and speaking engagements in the communities that actually have dog fighting. Almost all done without news cameras. 

Thats spreading awareness. Vick has been responsible for putting so many more eyeballs on the dogfighting issue and except for those poor 6-8 dogs that were killed, in a weird way Vick was the best thing to ever happen to the anti-dogfighting issue. Laws have been made, sentencing guidelines changed, more funding, etc. Dont think 2 years in jail was long enough for what he did? Ok, but at the time that was the max judges could give. Now the penalties are much stiffer all because of the spotlight Vick put on the issue. 

Since he got out, he has caused zero problems and paid back his fines in whole. 

He is still a piece of shit human for what he did. But he did the time and comlplied with everything asked of him. Actually went above and beyond. He lost 2 years at his absolute physical prime while he was the highest paid player in the league. Again, he was a piece of shit. But he paid a big price. And if he was the guy selling popcorn, nobody would give a fuck if he just got out of jail. He did his time and was ready to work. 

I feel like I did a bad job explaining all this. Hopefully it makes some kind of sense. 

 

 


"He shouldn't be able to work now?"

Literally no one is saying that. Is there anything besides not being able to work and being able to make millions working first for an NFL team and now in sports media?

" the biggest source of help against dog fighting"

Why do people say this? How are you quantifying it?

" in a weird way Vick was the best thing to ever happen to the anti-dogfighting issue."

Sure and the Titanic put a spotlight on boat safety reforms.

"I feel like I did a bad job explaining all this. Hopefully it makes some kind of sense. "

It does make sense. My responses are not trying to say you are wrong, just giving my perspective.

"Literally no one is saying that. Is there anything besides not being able to work and being able to make millions working first for an NFL team and now in sports media?"

Are we talking about the same thing? Because I'm talking about 2009 when people were literally saying that, yes. I saw it firsthand in Philly. Plenty of people were saying that, in terms of playing football. And yeah, there are plenty of other outcomes that could have happened. But we left it up to the owners, and more than a few were willing to hire Vick. 

"Why do people say this? How are you quantifying it?"

 I say this because I'm Parroting what was on the local news at that time. I trust Jim Gardner. I don't know but I'm guessing they quantified thru comparing the amount of donations coming in and maybe also by the amount of coverage compared to before. Protests/marches and new charities popping up. I guess I could google all this, but I'm just being honest. Also, just because I took the news' word for it, doesn't mean they were wrong. 

And I know what you were going for, but I feel like you're proving my point. The Titanic did indeed put the spotlight on cruise ship safety. It actually created reform. Post Titanic, every cruise ship was required to sail with enough lifeboats for every passenger on board. Which the Titanic didn't, and resulted in many unnecessary deaths. I realize you were being sarcastic but I thought it was actually a good example. 

 

 


I can somewhat understand the Titanic reference and how Vick and the dogfighting made it national news and created groups to help fight against dog fighting and animal abuse, but couldn't the same analogy be said for Jeffrey Epstein and molesting kids?

 

If this whole Jeffrey Epstein situation ends up having charity groups being created, more innocent children are saved because Jeffrey Epstein being caught, opened up the public's eyes to horrible crimes, do you think if Epstein was still alive, he would be able to be in the public spotlight like how Vick is?

 

No.  Maybe if he was famous for being on the cover of Madden and playing qb in a way no one else has, instead of being famous for billionaire money, the public outcry wouldn't have been so bad for him either, huh?

This just gets wackier the farther it goes. So I'll just answer the beginning part before you lost me. The difference is that dogfighting was something a lotta people didn't know still existed, or were just learning about. People have been well aware of rape and child abuse across the board for a while now.  

12/3/19 9:44 PM
11/20/09
Posts: 41880

https://player.vimeo.com/video/97799937

Maurice Smith vs Mark Coleman from Diesel Strongboy on Vimeo.


Classic striker vs grappler matchup and one of the classic upsets in the early days of the sport.
12/3/19 9:44 PM
11/20/09
Posts: 41881

So no, that's not a the difference, and I think you know it.

12/3/19 10:04 PM
5/30/05
Posts: 73403

I hated him the in 2010 when he almost won the MVP for Philly. It was brutal being an Eagles fan because I couldn't enjoy it. 

I never thought I would accept someone who did something that awful to dogs, but in my eyes he did a lot to show he changed. It took at lot for me to get to that point too. 

I get some people will never forgive him and I can't really argue that point. I just see a changed person in him. 

Edited: 12/3/19 10:09 PM
12/2/05
Posts: 85339
PhillyFights -
Fake Pie -
PhillyFights - 

I'm an Eagles fan who loves dogs. When they picked him up right outta jail, I was very conflicted. These are the things I have to remind myself:

He was sentenced to the longest jail sentence ever for that charge. 

He served his time. 2 years in Leavenworth ain't easy. He shouldn't be able to work now?

 He is now and has been since he was released, the biggest source of help against dog fighting. Yes obviously he had to do it but it's still true. He also did tons of charity work and speaking engagements in the communities that actually have dog fighting. Almost all done without news cameras. 

Thats spreading awareness. Vick has been responsible for putting so many more eyeballs on the dogfighting issue and except for those poor 6-8 dogs that were killed, in a weird way Vick was the best thing to ever happen to the anti-dogfighting issue. Laws have been made, sentencing guidelines changed, more funding, etc. Dont think 2 years in jail was long enough for what he did? Ok, but at the time that was the max judges could give. Now the penalties are much stiffer all because of the spotlight Vick put on the issue. 

Since he got out, he has caused zero problems and paid back his fines in whole. 

He is still a piece of shit human for what he did. But he did the time and comlplied with everything asked of him. Actually went above and beyond. He lost 2 years at his absolute physical prime while he was the highest paid player in the league. Again, he was a piece of shit. But he paid a big price. And if he was the guy selling popcorn, nobody would give a fuck if he just got out of jail. He did his time and was ready to work. 

I feel like I did a bad job explaining all this. Hopefully it makes some kind of sense. 

 

 


"He shouldn't be able to work now?"

Literally no one is saying that. Is there anything besides not being able to work and being able to make millions working first for an NFL team and now in sports media?

" the biggest source of help against dog fighting"

Why do people say this? How are you quantifying it?

" in a weird way Vick was the best thing to ever happen to the anti-dogfighting issue."

Sure and the Titanic put a spotlight on boat safety reforms.

"I feel like I did a bad job explaining all this. Hopefully it makes some kind of sense. "

It does make sense. My responses are not trying to say you are wrong, just giving my perspective.

"Literally no one is saying that. Is there anything besides not being able to work and being able to make millions working first for an NFL team and now in sports media?"

Are we talking about the same thing? Because I'm talking about 2009 when people were literally saying that, yes. I saw it firsthand in Philly. Plenty of people were saying that, in terms of playing football. And yeah, there are plenty of other outcomes that could have happened. But we left it up to the owners, and more than a few were willing to hire Vick. 

"Why do people say this? How are you quantifying it?"

 I say this because I'm Parroting what was on the local news at that time. I trust Jim Gardner. I don't know but I'm guessing they quantified thru comparing the amount of donations coming in and maybe also by the amount of coverage compared to before. Protests/marches and new charities popping up. I guess I could google all this, but I'm just being honest. Also, just because I took the news' word for it, doesn't mean they were wrong. 

And I know what you were going for, but I feel like you're proving my point. The Titanic did indeed put the spotlight on cruise ship safety. It actually created reform. Post Titanic, every cruise ship was required to sail with enough lifeboats for every passenger on board. Which the Titanic didn't, and resulted in many unnecessary deaths. I realize you were being sarcastic but I thought it was actually a good example. 

 

 

"in terms of playing football" 

Is not the same thing as never being able to work again. 

 

It's a great example. If the Titanic captain had lived he would have never sailed again. 

12/3/19 10:10 PM
12/2/05
Posts: 85340
D241 -

Sorry Philly fan, but that looks like you are reaching.

 

People are aware kids get molested.

People are aware dog fighting happens.

 

What most people weren't aware of, were the details regarding sex rings, private islands, rich people being involved.

What most people weren't aware of, were the details of dog fighting, how innocent pets are stolen and used as bait dogs, how famous people are involved.

 

 

Jeffrey Epstein brought awareness to pedos! Imagine if he went on anti pedo tours after instead of being murdered? 

12/3/19 10:10 PM
12/2/05
Posts: 85341
Cotton -

I was livid when the Eagles signed him. What he did was disgusting. 

 

That said, that guy changed as a person from his past. He has legit remorse. He was the one who spoke up for Riley Cooper. He paid back millions of his debt. He isn't close to the same person who was involved in that stuff in the past. 

Didnt he declare bankruptcy? 

12/3/19 10:23 PM
11/18/09
Posts: 11854
D241 -

So no, that's not a the difference, and I think you know it.

Like I said, I was only addressing the beginning parts. But I also know there were a lot of people who didn't know dog fighting even existed still. Some of those people went on to donate or volunteer etc...

i just don't think it's a good comparison. 

 

And again, I'm not trying to defend Vick. Just saying I believe he ended up doing more help than harm even if he didn't mean to.

12/3/19 10:27 PM
5/30/05
Posts: 73404
Fake Pie -
Cotton -

I was livid when the Eagles signed him. What he did was disgusting. 

 

That said, that guy changed as a person from his past. He has legit remorse. He was the one who spoke up for Riley Cooper. He paid back millions of his debt. He isn't close to the same person who was involved in that stuff in the past. 

Didnt he declare bankruptcy? 

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/21447070/michael-vick-makes-final-payment-clear-more-17-million-debt

12/3/19 10:29 PM
5/30/05
Posts: 73405

Doesn't absolve someone for fighting dogs to the death, but counts towards suggesting they changed fundamentally as a person imo.