OtherGround Forums Official 2019-2020 NBA Season Thread

6/18/19 5:20 AM
10/27/03
Posts: 23780
Vegito Blue -
EKPOGI -

Also thanks Vegito Blue for starting another NBA season thread.

No problem. I did it at Fingermoons suggestion on the last thread. Had to trim the fat of all the long LONG replies from the last thread lol 

But you crafted this beautiful beast all on your own and I salute you for it.

 

6/18/19 6:27 AM
6/23/12
Posts: 16609

Go Bucks. 

Edited: 6/18/19 8:41 AM
1/14/07
Posts: 15977
Golden State FA primer:

Talk about unprecedented: The Warriors were already confronted with the challenge of two future Hall-of-Famers becoming free agents at the same time. Now they're both facing lengthy recoveries from serious injuries, further complicating matters. But Durant's torn Achilles tendon and Thompson's torn ACL don't change the key facts: Both players still will command significant interest from other teams and the Warriors still need to figure out what to do if they leave.

Thankfully for Bob Myers, half of that equation shouldn't be much of a problem. Even before Thompson hurt his knee in Game 6 of the Finals, league sources weren't even considering the possibility that he might leave the franchise that drafted him. Now, with extensive rehab ahead and the ability to get more money from the Warriors than anyone else, it's almost impossible to imagine Thompson's signing elsewhere. In fact, Mychal Thompson (Klay's father) has admitted as much.

Durant, of course, is a different story. Even if he stays with the Warriors, they will have to figure out how to replace him while he's injured. But if Durant signs somewhere else, the Warriors will still be in a significant financial bind as they try to find a replacement. Even if they renounce their rights to DeMarcus Cousins and Jonas Jerebko, Golden State would still be well over the salary cap, meaning they would have only the $5.7 million taxpayer mid-level exception to shop for a replacement (not to mention someone to fill in for Thompson). And that significantly limits the type of player they could sign to start at small forward.

Says a Western Conference executive, "They're going to have to wait and see what shakes out with all the teams that have room, especially with wings at a premium as teams are sizing down. Most of the (better) wings have the potential to go a little bit above the mid-level."

That means the Warriors will need one of three things to happen. First, they can hope for a repeat of the scenario that played out last summer with Cousins: A free agent doesn't receive the offers he expects to land and decides that he'd rather take less money to play one season in Golden State before reentering the market the following summer. Sources mentioned Reggie Bullock and Kentavious Caldwell-Pope as players who could potentially find themselves in that situation.


Second, the Warriors could chase a late-career player who is willing to take less money in pursuit of a championship. Rudy Gay looks like such an option, but multiple sources said they expect him to re-sign with the Spurs (potentially for more than $10 million per season). Several executives mentioned Trevor Ariza as a perfect match for the Warriors, but Ariza is likely to command better offers from other teams, so he'd have to be willing to leave money on the table. Marcus Morris could face the same sort of decision as Ariza (though he isn't a true wing and not as versatile a defender). One league insider pushed DeMarre Carroll as a strong fit in the Warriors' price range. Jeff Green might also make sense.

The problem with that second scenario is that Thompson's knee injury has significantly weakened the Warriors' title chances. Ring-chasers might see better paths to a championship elsewhere. So that leaves the Warriors with the third and final option: bargain hunting. Maybe their scouts see something in Dorian Finney-Smith that would help him excel in their system. Maybe they could find a way to unlock Stanley Johnson's potential. Maybe playing alongside Steph Curry and Draymond Green would help Mario Hezonja become as good as he thinks he is. It's a challenge that will test the Warriors' evaluation skills and creativity, and they'll need to buy in bulk. But even if they hit on multiple players, that's still a far cry from having Durant
6/18/19 8:45 AM
1/14/07
Posts: 15978
Raptors:

No player's free agent decision will trigger as wide a range of outcomes as Leonard's. If he re-ups with the Raptors, they'll be in the hunt for a repeat championship. But if he leaves--and good luck trying to read his poker face--the Raptors may pivot to a full reset.

Without Leonard, Toronto will still be $17.2 million over the cap, assuming Marc Gasol picks up his $25.6 million option. Even if they renounce Danny Green, they'll be $3.1 million over the cap, with two starting spots to fill. Plus, Gasol will be 35 by next season's playoffs, Lowry will be 34, Green will be 31 and Serge Ibaka will be 30. There's a limited shelf life for that core.

So, yes, the Raptors could bring them all back, shop for a veteran small forward on the same rack as the Warriors and hope Pascal Siakam becomes a legit star and OG Anunoby makes Siakam-like strides. That's still a playoff team, but the ceiling is low. With Lowry, Gasol and Ibaka all on expiring contracts, the Raptors could simply tread water for a year before diving deep into the free agent pool in 2020, when they will have roughly $75 million in cap space.

However, there's more buzz around the league that if Leonard leaves, we might not recognize next year's Raptors--particularly if Masai Ujiri follows him out the door and takes the Wizards' GM job. Instead of letting Lowry, Ibaka and Gasol leave in 2020 and getting nothing but cap relief in return, the Raptors could look to trade them now. Each carries a significant salary, but since it expires after next season, contenders could justify adding one of those players--now with a championship pedigree--to load up for a title run. While it would be jarring to jettison so many players after winning a title, a West exec says it may be inevitable. "I've looked at it," he says. "They're not going to get value for Lowry at the trade deadline, so they've got to do it this summer. So if they move Kyle, you're in it, and you might as well move Ibaka and Gasol too."

The Raptors' goal would be to bring back a combination of picks and young players while not increasing their financial burden beyond next season. Multiple executives compared that plan to the one the Clippers executed this past year. The champs might take a major step back without Leonard, but they wouldn't be down for long.
6/18/19 8:47 AM
1/14/07
Posts: 15979
Bucks:

Every move the Bucks make will be geared toward one goal: Keeping Giannis Antetokounmpo happy. He'll be a free agent in 2021, and the Bucks need to prove that they are fully committed to surrounding him with championship-level talent. That means doing whatever it takes to keep Middleton, to the point where multiple executives expect him to receive a max deal--or something near that amount.

"He's going back," says a West exec. "What I hear is he will get a fifth year, but take a little less at the beginning. It won't be the max, but it'll be close."

But if he's wrong and Middleton prefers another destination, things will get tricky for the Bucks. They will undoubtedly waive George Hill this summer, since only $1 million of his $18 million salary is guaranteed. That move, combined with Middleton's signing elsewhere, would get the Bucks roughly $8 million under the cap; they could expand that room to $26 million by renouncing Nikola Mirotic, who has a cap hold of $18.8 million. But it might actually make more sense to try to bring Mirotic back. A league source thinks he will get offers in the range of $13 to $14 million per season, and the Bucks would need a shooter to replace Middleton's three-point stroke. Paying Mirotic that price would also allow them to re-sign Brook Lopez with their remaining cap room--since they don't own his Bird rights, they can't go over the cap to bring him back.

The Bucks could also try to make a play for a big-ticket free agent. Tobias Harris would make sense next to Giannis but, as a league source says, "the question is 'Who wants to play in Milwaukee?'"

Instead, if the Bucks were to shift away from Mirotic and Lopez, they could focus on adding wings. Says a former GM, "I think they can use that $26 million effectively. Maybe you can translate it into two second-tier guys. Ariza wouldn't be a bad call. They could go after Bojan Bogdanovic."

After that shopping is done, the Bucks will have to go over the cap to match whatever offer Malcolm Brogdon gets as a restricted free agent, which is why Milwaukee's biggest issue going forward will be the luxury tax. But if that's the price they'll have to pay to retain Giannis, they'll pay it.
6/18/19 8:49 AM
1/14/07
Posts: 15980
Philly:

The Sixers' situation might be more complicated than that of any other team. They sacrificed significant assets to trade for each player during the season, which puts added pressure on the front office to avoid losing them with nothing in return. But both Butler and Harris will command offers well north of $20 million annually, and when you add that money to Joel Embiid's contract (he's entering the second year of a five-year, $148 million deal) and Ben Simmons' presumed extension, the Sixers will be deep into the luxury tax with little financial flexibility.

The good news for the Sixers is that they've got plenty of money to play with at the moment. Consider the following scenarios:

1) If Butler and Harris both sign elsewhere, Philly can create up to $60 million in cap room by renouncing J.J. Redick, Mike Scott, T.J. McConnell and Boban Marjanovic, cutting Jonathan Simmons and convincing James Ennis not to pick up his option. More conservative measures would still leave them with about $40 million in cap space.

2) If Butler leaves and Harris stays, Philly could create up to $38 million in cap room.

3) If Harris leaves and Butler stays, the Sixers' maximum cap space would be around $30 million.

So the Sixers have options, but also less certainty as to how things might play out. "My gut tells me it's going to be hard to keep both of them," says a Western Conference executive. "I thought they were going to let Jimmy go, but he had a great playoff and they're under a lot of pressure to keep him. I would have said before that they're keeping Tobias for sure, and I still think they want to, but now if they're going to offer Jimmy the max, does Tobias stay? It's a really interesting situation."

If both players leave, the Sixers would have plenty of money to make a run at the top free agents--Durant, Leonard, Kyrie Irving. But there doesn't appear to be mutual interest on that front. They could also try to weaken a rival while strengthening their core by pursuing Middleton or Brogdon.

Says the West exec: "I have heard that they have an interest in Brogdon. Offer him a big deal and put a little heat on Milwaukee. Play him as a wing. He's a tough kid. He can defend. He's resilient. Doesn't need the ball in his hands. And he has great leadership qualities."

If the 76ers re-sign Harris but lose Butler, their emphasis would shift toward the wing. They would likely try to bring back Redick while also pursuing another free agent--sources mentioned Danny Green and Terrance Ross as possibilities. Alternatively, a former GM suggests that it might be more prudent for the Sixers to spread their money around and build a stronger bench. "I've come to believe that's the best way of doing it if you're a team that's going to compete for a championship," he says. "It's really hard to do it with three guys and a bunch of veteran minimums, unless you have a bunch of guys on rookie contracts. But they don't really have that."

But another league source counters: "The only issue in building the bench with $4-$5 million players it that those guys aren't much better than replacement level."

If the Sixers end up keeping Butler and not Harris, they'll have to fill a hole at power forward. Mirotic's name came up as a possibility in multiple conversations, since they'll need to add shooting around Simmons, Butler and Embiid. They'd have the money to outspend the Warriors and Raptors for players like Ariza and Marcus Morris, and could even try to trump whatever the Spurs offer Rudy Gay. Then they'd be able to go over the cap to re-sign Redick.

Still, in all of those scenarios, the Sixers would quickly find themselves in luxury tax hell. But that might not be a problem if ownership can stomach those costs. "If they're willing to put the money in, what does it matter?" says a former GM. "Golden State doesn't care about paying the tax if they win."
6/18/19 8:51 AM
1/14/07
Posts: 15981
Celtics

If the Celtics want to upgrade their roster without Kyrie Irving, help will have to come through trades. Should Irving sign with another team, Boston will not be able to clear enough cap room to be any sort of a player in free agency. Instead, they will likely bring back Terry Rozier, who is a restricted free agent, and then work on building trade packages to land an impact player.

Boston missed out on Davis, but don't think he was Danny Ainge's only target, especially with a trove of young players and draft picks that he can dangle to upgrade the roster.

"What is Danny Ainge planning that we're not thinking of right now?" says a league source. "I'm sure Danny has something up his sleeve."

Multiple sources point to Bradley Beal as prime option--particularly if Irving leaves. Beal is coming off his best season and showed a wider range of skills after the Wizards lost John Wall at the end of December. Not only did his scoring average jump to 27.2 points per game post-Wall, but he also looked comfortable handling increased playmaking responsibilities. Beal would fit neatly into a Celtics system that thrives on ball movement and doesn't require a pure point guard--particularly if Gordon Hayward continues to work his way back toward his old self.

Beal will have lots of suitors, particularly among the teams that hoped to land Davis or who miss out on the premier free agents. It's possible the Wizards could try to persuade a team with significant cap room to trade for both Beal and Wall--a deal that would require little in return, since the key for Washington would be to clear Wall's contract. But short of that sort of option materializing, few teams can match the type of package Boston could put together. One league source suggested that Washington would need to strongly consider an offer of Jayson Tatum, Marcus Smart and a protected pick for Beal or that Boston could offer Smart, Jaylen Brown and two future first-rounders as an alternative trade.

The Celtics will be in on Mike Conley, but Utah, Indiana and Detroit are all lining up trade offers too. And they'll likely have the full mid-level exception to work with, which starts at $9.2 million. They could use that to add a veteran point guard to pair with Rozier--Darren Collison, Delon Wright, Patrick Beverley and Tomas Satoransky could be available at that price range, while Cory Joseph should come cheaper. If they end up dealing frontcourt pieces for Beal or Conley, and Marcus Morris walks, they could use the midlevel to land a forward from a group that includes Ariza, Gay, Maxi Kleber, Al-Farouq Aminu and Rodney Hood, says a league source.

In other words, the Celtics have options. And one thing is for certain: They will be aggressive, including in the run-up to Thursday's draft, in which they hold three first-round picks. Says a former GM, "I think they will be active trying to move those picks--possibly for a 2020 or 2021 pick."

Still, as with the other elite teams doing their best to hold onto their places at the top of the NBA, the Celtics will have a hard time putting together as talented a roster if Irving walks away.
6/18/19 9:12 AM
7/1/15
Posts: 24433


6/18/19 9:16 AM
1/14/07
Posts: 15983
Pffft...

Like Woj knows anything.
6/18/19 9:28 AM
7/1/15
Posts: 24434
RdotC - Pffft...

Like Woj knows anything.

Lmao Woj is a prophet 

6/18/19 9:32 AM
7/1/15
Posts: 24435

Anyone know the Clippers financial situation? Could they afford a Kawhi, Butler and Kemba trio? Would be sick 

6/18/19 9:47 AM
1/14/07
Posts: 15984
Vegito Blue - 

Anyone know the Clippers financial situation? Could they afford a Kawhi, Butler and Kemba trio? Would be sick 


If they renounced rights on everyone they can, I think they'd have around $75m.

So thats two maxes for the most part and a little bit left over.
6/18/19 11:09 AM
9/22/16
Posts: 16498
RdotC - 
Vegito Blue - 

Anyone know the Clippers financial situation? Could they afford a Kawhi, Butler and Kemba trio? Would be sick 


If they renounced rights on everyone they can, I think they'd have around $75m.

So thats two maxes for the most part and a little bit left over.

Jimmy Butler just bought a place in Philly. I think he's going to stay. Philly would be fools to let him go, Embiid and Simmons' issues really got exposed in the playoffs. Butler is a rock.
6/18/19 11:24 AM
6/1/07
Posts: 20545
AnthonyWeiner - 
RdotC - 
Vegito Blue - 

Anyone know the Clippers financial situation? Could they afford a Kawhi, Butler and Kemba trio? Would be sick 


If they renounced rights on everyone they can, I think they'd have around $75m.

So thats two maxes for the most part and a little bit left over.

Jimmy Butler just bought a place in Philly. I think he's going to stay. Philly would be fools to let him go, Embiid and Simmons' issues really got exposed in the playoffs. Butler is a rock.

I don't know if I'd call Butler a rock. He's so mercurial he can either be a guy who makes his team better or a guy who makes his team worse depending on his mood that day. He can be a miserable fucker when he thinks his teammates are dogging it, as the TWolves found out. I could see him getting frustrated next year if Embiid shows up out of shape and Simmons spends his offseason chasing after Kendall Jenner rather than working on his jumpshot.
6/18/19 11:29 AM
9/9/12
Posts: 10303
Hocky -

Really looking forward to the same handful of dudes from your other thread arguing back and forth with walls of quotes for the next year.

Lol!

Also - In!

6/18/19 11:30 AM
9/22/16
Posts: 16500
Steve4192 - 
AnthonyWeiner - 
RdotC - 
Vegito Blue - 

Anyone know the Clippers financial situation? Could they afford a Kawhi, Butler and Kemba trio? Would be sick 


If they renounced rights on everyone they can, I think they'd have around $75m.

So thats two maxes for the most part and a little bit left over.

Jimmy Butler just bought a place in Philly. I think he's going to stay. Philly would be fools to let him go, Embiid and Simmons' issues really got exposed in the playoffs. Butler is a rock.

I don't know if I'd call Butler a rock. He's so mercurial he can either be a guy who makes his team better or a guy who makes his team worse depending on his mood that day. He can be a miserable fucker when he thinks his teammates are dogging it, as the TWolves found out. I could see him getting frustrated next year if Embiid shows up out of shape and Simmons spends his offseason chasing after Kendall Jenner rather than working on his jumpshot.

Embiid is going to end up one fat motherfucker. I discussed this at length during the playoffs, I think the Sixers need to trade him while there's still value. I see his future as the NBA's version of James Toney.
6/18/19 4:37 PM
1/10/12
Posts: 902
RdotC -
Vegito Blue - 

Anyone know the Clippers financial situation? Could they afford a Kawhi, Butler and Kemba trio? Would be sick 


If they renounced rights on everyone they can, I think they'd have around $75m.

So thats two maxes for the most part and a little bit left over.

https://www.spotrac.com/nba/los-angeles-clippers/cap/#

If they renounce everyone they can get to $56M. But if they wanted to add a second max player they could trade Gallinari and a sweetener to someone with cap space who isn't in on any big free agents.

6/18/19 4:43 PM
10/8/07
Posts: 11941

Looks like Harden wont be in anymore of CP3s state farm commercials. Paul demanded a trade and Harden told the front office to pick between the two of them.

6/18/19 4:51 PM
7/1/15
Posts: 24438


Yeah this team is done lol
6/18/19 4:52 PM
7/1/15
Posts: 24439
The Destroyer88 -

Looks like Harden wont be in anymore of CP3s state farm commercials. Paul demanded a trade and Harden told the front office to pick between the two of them.

I think they’re both Overrated and bitches, but you gotta stick with Harden right lol

6/18/19 4:58 PM
10/8/07
Posts: 11942
Vegito Blue -
The Destroyer88 -

Looks like Harden wont be in anymore of CP3s state farm commercials. Paul demanded a trade and Harden told the front office to pick between the two of them.

I think they’re both Overrated and bitches, but you gotta stick with Harden right lol

Obviously. Paul is the leader of the team but Harden is the one getting them to the playoffs every year.

6/18/19 5:01 PM
12/1/11
Posts: 18605
6/18/19 5:01 PM
12/1/11
Posts: 18606
6/18/19 5:02 PM
12/1/11
Posts: 18607
6/18/19 5:04 PM
7/1/15
Posts: 24442
Sergio -

He thinks very highly of himself