OtherGround Forums Pistol Torture Test (HK VP9)

9/20/20 8:06 PM
2/9/09
Posts: 14125

Do you guys put any stock into these torture tests?

 

9/20/20 8:38 PM
1/1/01
Posts: 29929
While not scientific, I think videos like this can give a window into how sensitive (or not) different guns can be to frequent use.

Most people don't run their guns in those conditions, so it's good to know that they can (or can't) perform if shit goes sideways.

Nutnfancy does a lot of testing in the desert in Utah, and it's funny how some guns mysteriously fail there.
9/20/20 8:40 PM
2/9/09
Posts: 14130
billyball2 - While not scientific, I think videos like this can give a window into how sensitive (or not) different guns can be to frequent use.

Most people don't run their guns in those conditions, so it's good to know that they can (or can't) perform if shit goes sideways.

Nutnfancy does a lot of testing in the desert in Utah, and it's funny how some guns mysteriously fail there.

My thing is, how often are you dropping a pistol in mud, pushing into said mud,  then getting into a shoot out? Does that really show reliability vs something like 1000+ rds through it?

9/20/20 9:24 PM
8/14/12
Posts: 6190
Bend The Knee -
billyball2 - While not scientific, I think videos like this can give a window into how sensitive (or not) different guns can be to frequent use.

Most people don't run their guns in those conditions, so it's good to know that they can (or can't) perform if shit goes sideways.

Nutnfancy does a lot of testing in the desert in Utah, and it's funny how some guns mysteriously fail there.

My thing is, how often are you dropping a pistol in mud, pushing into said mud,  then getting into a shoot out? Does that really show reliability vs something like 1000+ rds through it?

I’d say getting into a fight and your gun falling into the mud and being able to fire more than one shot is way more important than being able to fire 1000 rounds clean unless you are deploying to a war zone. 

Edited: 9/20/20 9:48 PM
2/9/09
Posts: 14131
Vikingknee -
Bend The Knee -
billyball2 - While not scientific, I think videos like this can give a window into how sensitive (or not) different guns can be to frequent use.

Most people don't run their guns in those conditions, so it's good to know that they can (or can't) perform if shit goes sideways.

Nutnfancy does a lot of testing in the desert in Utah, and it's funny how some guns mysteriously fail there.

My thing is, how often are you dropping a pistol in mud, pushing into said mud,  then getting into a shoot out? Does that really show reliability vs something like 1000+ rds through it?

I’d say getting into a fight and your gun falling into the mud and being able to fire more than one shot is way more important than being able to fire 1000 rounds clean unless you are deploying to a war zone. 

Right, but are you gonna press it into the mud like shown? Seems unrealistic. If you watch his videos, almost everything malfunctions in mud or sand

Edited: 9/20/20 9:52 PM
6/13/03
Posts: 29799

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9/20/20 11:41 PM
6/27/12
Posts: 996

It is a mechanical Device and if you get it dirty grind sand and mud into it yes you’re likely going to affect the reliability. BS test just wanted views for being controversial. 

9/20/20 11:46 PM
12/26/05
Posts: 48207

Not a ton.  Also since its interference due to random foreign matter, you would probably have to run it several hundred times to get reliable data.

9/21/20 1:02 AM
6/13/03
Posts: 29806

Not really a fan of his test. 

9/21/20 6:21 AM
2/9/09
Posts: 14133

Thanks all

9/21/20 7:29 AM
1/16/20
Posts: 118

Tim is honest

9/21/20 7:54 AM
5/2/02
Posts: 28941

Certainly interesting.  Not so concerned by what fails as I am impressed by what doesn’t.  There have been a couple that have gone through the tests that get moved up my list for future purchases.  
 

The precision guns always have problems.  Side effect of tight tolerances.  But then that’s like faulty a finely crafted sword for not being good at chopping down trees 

9/21/20 7:59 AM
8/15/07
Posts: 20368
It's best not to believe any conclusions MAC comes to in his videos. His integrity when it comes to these tests is somewhat...questionable.

There are also a ton of other torture test videos out there on the VP9 where it passed without any issues whatsoever.

And not only is this pistol widely in use in Germany with the police, it was just selected as Lithuanian army's service pistol. It's also the Japanese army's service pistol.
9/21/20 10:25 AM
1/1/01
Posts: 29941
nottheface - 

Certainly interesting.  Not so concerned by what fails as I am impressed by what doesn’t.  There have been a couple that have gone through the tests that get moved up my list for future purchases.  
 

The precision guns always have problems.  Side effect of tight tolerances.  But then that’s like faulty a finely crafted sword for not being good at chopping down trees 


Good perspective IMO.

If you have a pimped out .22 pistol that you use for Olympic-style target shooting, I would expect it to fail miserably when dropped in mud or sand.

I'm not an operator, so it will be a rare circumstance if my pistols get submerged in shit prior to me using them.

THat said, it's good to see how well some pistols DO perform...
9/21/20 11:05 AM
8/10/16
Posts: 719
Soul Gravy - It's best not to believe any conclusions MAC comes to in his videos. His integrity when it comes to these tests is somewhat...questionable.

There are also a ton of other torture test videos out there on the VP9 where it passed without any issues whatsoever.

And not only is this pistol widely in use in Germany with the police, it was just selected as Lithuanian army's service pistol. It's also the Japanese army's service pistol.

Do you have any evidence to support his integrity being questionable?

9/21/20 11:29 AM
8/15/07
Posts: 20372
PreachinJosh - 
Soul Gravy - It's best not to believe any conclusions MAC comes to in his videos. His integrity when it comes to these tests is somewhat...questionable.

There are also a ton of other torture test videos out there on the VP9 where it passed without any issues whatsoever.

And not only is this pistol widely in use in Germany with the police, it was just selected as Lithuanian army's service pistol. It's also the Japanese army's service pistol.

Do you have any evidence to support his integrity being questionable?


Just what I've seen on his videos and read from other folks on forums.
9/22/20 12:05 AM
5/2/02
Posts: 28943
Soul Gravy -
PreachinJosh - 
Soul Gravy - It's best not to believe any conclusions MAC comes to in his videos. His integrity when it comes to these tests is somewhat...questionable.

There are also a ton of other torture test videos out there on the VP9 where it passed without any issues whatsoever.

And not only is this pistol widely in use in Germany with the police, it was just selected as Lithuanian army's service pistol. It's also the Japanese army's service pistol.

Do you have any evidence to support his integrity being questionable?


Just what I've seen on his videos and read from other folks on forums.

I’d be more suspicious of the military and policie procurement process than a random YouTuber.  I’m guessing the HK sales teams don’t just walk up to the big institutional customers with an order pad and say how many you want man?”  
 

Drinks, steak dinners, strippers, relationships and everything else you can think of are invariably used to win the big money contracts.  Not saying it’s not above board, but folks are going to ride that line. 

Edited: 9/22/20 2:40 AM
7/15/04
Posts: 61124

I think the test is "somewhat" applicable to some people. Personally I'm on the Texas border sometimes in no mans land on drug smuggling routes. Can be very dusty/dirty and I don't always have the luxury to just sit around and clean my gun.

I need something that can run in rough conditions and be neglected.

Outside of that, sometimes I'm in areas in the country with dangerous animals. I can be out there in bad conditions where getting a gun dirty accidentally happens. Again, I need a gun (hopefully) to run if it gets dirty. 

So I don't take these tests as gospel, but do take note of ones that perform above average and keep firing even when mucked up. I prefer looser tolerances and ok running dry if it hasn't been super cleaned and lubed.

Edited: 9/22/20 6:14 AM
2/9/09
Posts: 14142
TexDeuce -

I think the test is "somewhat" applicable to some people. Personally I'm on the Texas border sometimes in no mans land on drug smuggling routes. Can be very dusty/dirty and I don't always have the luxury to just sit around and clean my gun.

I need something that can run in rough conditions and be neglected.

Outside of that, sometimes I'm in areas in the country with dangerous animals. I can be out there in bad conditions where getting a gun dirty accidentally happens. Again, I need a gun (hopefully) to run if it gets dirty. 

So I don't take these tests as gospel, but do take note of ones that perform above average and keep firing even when mucked up. I prefer looser tolerances and ok running dry if it hasn't been super cleaned and lubed.

But you're judging it based off of one test....so you can run lets say a VP9 and A Sig and the VP9 can fail 3 times, where the Sig only 2. 
 

BUT if you ran them lets say 10x each, you can end up with completely different data and numbers. Sig could end up with many more fails, but you would never know that based on one test alone

 

also, you're pushing your pistol into sand and dirt?

9/22/20 6:14 AM
2/9/09
Posts: 14143
nottheface -

Certainly interesting.  Not so concerned by what fails as I am impressed by what doesn’t.  There have been a couple that have gone through the tests that get moved up my list for future purchases.  
 

The precision guns always have problems.  Side effect of tight tolerances.  But then that’s like faulty a finely crafted sword for not being good at chopping down trees 

Nothing has passed all the way. I believe the Walther PPQ and Glock 17? Have come close

9/22/20 9:56 AM
7/15/04
Posts: 61128
Bend The Knee -
TexDeuce -

I think the test is "somewhat" applicable to some people. Personally I'm on the Texas border sometimes in no mans land on drug smuggling routes. Can be very dusty/dirty and I don't always have the luxury to just sit around and clean my gun.

I need something that can run in rough conditions and be neglected.

Outside of that, sometimes I'm in areas in the country with dangerous animals. I can be out there in bad conditions where getting a gun dirty accidentally happens. Again, I need a gun (hopefully) to run if it gets dirty. 

So I don't take these tests as gospel, but do take note of ones that perform above average and keep firing even when mucked up. I prefer looser tolerances and ok running dry if it hasn't been super cleaned and lubed.

But you're judging it based off of one test....so you can run lets say a VP9 and A Sig and the VP9 can fail 3 times, where the Sig only 2. 
 

BUT if you ran them lets say 10x each, you can end up with completely different data and numbers. Sig could end up with many more fails, but you would never know that based on one test alone

 

also, you're pushing your pistol into sand and dirt?

I already said I don't take the tests as gospel. I understand they aren't a scientifically reviewed test. I said they are interesting. 

Also, I don't know what I said equates to me "pushing my pistol into sand and dirt". Why would I do that?

However, guns can get sand/dirt/debris/grime in them when operating in bad conditions. This test mimics that to a more extreme degree.

9/22/20 12:16 PM
2/9/09
Posts: 14146
TexDeuce -
Bend The Knee -
TexDeuce -

I think the test is "somewhat" applicable to some people. Personally I'm on the Texas border sometimes in no mans land on drug smuggling routes. Can be very dusty/dirty and I don't always have the luxury to just sit around and clean my gun.

I need something that can run in rough conditions and be neglected.

Outside of that, sometimes I'm in areas in the country with dangerous animals. I can be out there in bad conditions where getting a gun dirty accidentally happens. Again, I need a gun (hopefully) to run if it gets dirty. 

So I don't take these tests as gospel, but do take note of ones that perform above average and keep firing even when mucked up. I prefer looser tolerances and ok running dry if it hasn't been super cleaned and lubed.

But you're judging it based off of one test....so you can run lets say a VP9 and A Sig and the VP9 can fail 3 times, where the Sig only 2. 
 

BUT if you ran them lets say 10x each, you can end up with completely different data and numbers. Sig could end up with many more fails, but you would never know that based on one test alone

 

also, you're pushing your pistol into sand and dirt?

I already said I don't take the tests as gospel. I understand they aren't a scientifically reviewed test. I said they are interesting. 

Also, I don't know what I said equates to me "pushing my pistol into sand and dirt". Why would I do that?

However, guns can get sand/dirt/debris/grime in them when operating in bad conditions. This test mimics that to a more extreme degree.

Your whole quote. Im assuming if you dropped any of these things in some sand  or mud they'd be OK. These tests their pushing them and covering them into shit. To me its kinda unrealistic as to their reliability at all

9/22/20 6:16 PM
8/15/07
Posts: 20383
I don't think the tests are necessarily unrealistic. I'm just suspicious of some of the results he gets.