OtherGround Forums Poker: getting back in after ~ 10 years...

6/17/18 12:54 AM
1/1/01
Posts: 82819
lost 300 with kings vs aces on a queen high board. nope didnt have the aces.
Edited: 6/17/18 1:05 AM
1/1/01
Posts: 23693
lol @ "the aces"

Edited: 6/17/18 1:54 AM
1/1/01
Posts: 23694
My stats since the start of this thread (when I started getting back into playing roughly 2 months ago). Just posting for information purposes (as well as keeping myself honest):

Cash Games ($1/$2 & $1/$3):
BB/Hour 15.14
BB/100 Hands 65.23
ROI 70%

Tournaments ($60):
Victories 0%
Runner Up 0%
In The Money 33.3%
Final Table 33.3%
ROI 38%
6/17/18 4:39 AM
1/8/14
Posts: 2097

 

6/19/18 2:38 PM
4/24/12
Posts: 16885

Vanessa Selbst's REAL Top 5 Poker Moments

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s7GVQAnEI-E

Edited: 6/19/18 3:25 PM
12/26/14
Posts: 784

I've been an upswing member for a long time and it has taken my game to the next level.

I used to grind 15- 20 hours/ week live but have made the switch to online and am putting in about 20 hours per week as well as getting in a good 10-15 hours per month studying material. It is insane how much tougher online players are compared to live. I grind 1/2 and bum hunt 2/4  online (trying to full transition to 2/4) and I will say with confidence that the players playing 1/2 online are better than 5/10 live players. 

"ABC" Tag poker may work a bit in the live scene but games are too tough nowadays as its not 2007 anymore. If you want to be a winning player and get better you need to learn to play a theoretically sound style. 

I think upswing does a great job, Doug and Ryan do an awesome job teaching you how you should think of the game in terms of theory and give you a solid GTO strategy that is fairly unexploitable and you will win in the long term using this strategy. Even moreso of the "Upswing strat" it teaches you how you should think about the game which will help you to see how you should be looking at situations. 

They added Fried Mulders to the lab and he is the fucking man. He uses PIO Solver to solve solutions so you know exactly what you should be doing in a vaccum but then will also look at how the player pool plays these spots so you know to diverge from what the solvers say to do.

 

Someone asked "Does this stuff work on your average jo shmo" that sucks or something like that. Here is the answer: Yes, it works. A solid GTO strategy is one that in theory, you cant lose doing in the long run. It turns poker into a zero sum game "IE if you play GTO, even if your opponent plays perfect, the BEST he can do is break even against your strategy". The only issue is against these players the "GTO strategy" will make you money by definition, but it wont make you the MOST money. You will make the MOST money vs these players by diverging from the GTO strategy and exploiting their errors.

6/19/18 3:24 PM
12/26/14
Posts: 785

IMO, here are ppls best options for training:

 

1) Doug Polk (Upswing)- was the number 1 hu player in the world. Very strong theoretical understanding, and is just an awesome teacher. Its hard to find people that are awesome at what they do and can also teach. He just explains things insanely well.  If ppl are interested but don't want to pay, just watch a bunch of the free upswing stuff on youtube, or watch Doug's poker hands series on youtube. 

2) Nick Howard- Has his own coaching site and the dude is really smart. You buy his stuff in "Packs" can't really go here if you are just a beginner though b/c his shit is very advanced.

3) Matt Janda- If you are going to read a book on holdem, every one of them is fucking obsolete, other than the two books by Janda. The "Upswing Lab" is based a lot on his first book which teaches a winning strat. His second book will look at things he perceives as "Errors" in his first book and also adds on to concepts.

4) I hear John Little's stuff is ok, but just seems kinda meh, to me. 

 5)Ryan Fee (upswing)-Other main half of upswing. Very strong theoretical background, and was the man that busted Tom Dwam and sent him into hiding once online poker became too tough for him. People are split on if they like his as a coach. Doug is very clear and concise when he is talking while Ryan is kind of like a crazy professor. he has a tendancy to go on tangents. He can be hard to follow at times, but when you follow, you will have a shit-ton of ah-ha moments. 

 

5)BenCB- I hear he has an awesome tournament course but I have not seen it. Guy is really good though.

6) I hear John Little's stuff is ok. Havent seen a ton of it but it hasnt blown me away by any means. 

7)Fried Mulders (upswing)- The man, imo.  

6/19/18 3:37 PM
8/6/08
Posts: 37196
14er -

I've been an upswing member for a long time and it has taken my game to the next level.

I used to grind 15- 20 hours/ week live but have made the switch to online and am putting in about 20 hours per week as well as getting in a good 10-15 hours per month studying material. It is insane how much tougher online players are compared to live. I grind 1/2 and bum hunt 2/4  online (trying to full transition to 2/4) and I will say with confidence that the players playing 1/2 online are better than 5/10 live players. 

"ABC" Tag poker may work a bit in the live scene but games are too tough nowadays as its not 2007 anymore. If you want to be a winning player and get better you need to learn to play a theoretically sound style. 

I think upswing does a great job, Doug and Ryan do an awesome job teaching you how you should think of the game in terms of theory and give you a solid GTO strategy that is fairly unexploitable and you will win in the long term using this strategy. Even moreso of the "Upswing strat" it teaches you how you should think about the game which will help you to see how you should be looking at situations. 

They added Fried Mulders to the lab and he is the fucking man. He uses PIO Solver to solve solutions so you know exactly what you should be doing in a vaccum but then will also look at how the player pool plays these spots so you know to diverge from what the solvers say to do.

 

Someone asked "Does this stuff work on your average jo shmo" that sucks or something like that. Here is the answer: Yes, it works. A solid GTO strategy is one that in theory, you cant lose doing in the long run. It turns poker into a zero sum game "IE if you play GTO, even if your opponent plays perfect, the BEST he can do is break even against your strategy". The only issue is against these players the "GTO strategy" will make you money by definition, but it wont make you the MOST money. You will make the MOST money vs these players by diverging from the GTO strategy and exploiting their errors.

Balancing is almost useless in low stakes

6/19/18 3:46 PM
12/26/14
Posts: 786
gokudamus -
14er -

I've been an upswing member for a long time and it has taken my game to the next level.

I used to grind 15- 20 hours/ week live but have made the switch to online and am putting in about 20 hours per week as well as getting in a good 10-15 hours per month studying material. It is insane how much tougher online players are compared to live. I grind 1/2 and bum hunt 2/4  online (trying to full transition to 2/4) and I will say with confidence that the players playing 1/2 online are better than 5/10 live players. 

"ABC" Tag poker may work a bit in the live scene but games are too tough nowadays as its not 2007 anymore. If you want to be a winning player and get better you need to learn to play a theoretically sound style. 

I think upswing does a great job, Doug and Ryan do an awesome job teaching you how you should think of the game in terms of theory and give you a solid GTO strategy that is fairly unexploitable and you will win in the long term using this strategy. Even moreso of the "Upswing strat" it teaches you how you should think about the game which will help you to see how you should be looking at situations. 

They added Fried Mulders to the lab and he is the fucking man. He uses PIO Solver to solve solutions so you know exactly what you should be doing in a vaccum but then will also look at how the player pool plays these spots so you know to diverge from what the solvers say to do.

 

Someone asked "Does this stuff work on your average jo shmo" that sucks or something like that. Here is the answer: Yes, it works. A solid GTO strategy is one that in theory, you cant lose doing in the long run. It turns poker into a zero sum game "IE if you play GTO, even if your opponent plays perfect, the BEST he can do is break even against your strategy". The only issue is against these players the "GTO strategy" will make you money by definition, but it wont make you the MOST money. You will make the MOST money vs these players by diverging from the GTO strategy and exploiting their errors.

Balancing is almost useless in low stakes

I agree with you to a point. You are going to make more money deviating from a balanced style vs worse players considering they make more mistakes.

It's not useless in that if you are truly balanced (or even more balanced than your opponent), you can't lose in the long run.

Also, if you know how to play balanced style, then it will be way easier to understand when your opponents are not being balanced which will help you to exploit their imbalance. 

It's also not useless to get really good playing a balanced style even at low stakes because you will need it more and more the higher stakes you play so maybe giving up some short term money by being balanced (considering you are still winning) may be worth it in the long run. 

 

6/24/18 9:20 PM
5/5/09
Posts: 11017

Just started playing again after 6/7 years.  I played from 1999 when I was 20 years old for a good 10 years.  I was great on some days but mostly I was an impatient punk kid.  

Buddy of mine that I played with years ago bugged me for 10 years every year to go to the WSOP with him.  Finally broke dowm this year and went. Started playing and studying a few months before.  

Played 3 wsop tourneys- not one cash. Played on a 5/10 table at the RIO in the wsop room. It was the highest table they had going at that time, that day. (  was interest for a 10-25 but not enough players. 

So I find myself playing 5/10 with Young Man and Jamie Gold.  Lost a few hundred but not to them.  One cool hand we had the straddle all the way to 200 bucks. 20406080100 200.  I had pocket 8s and raised to 600. Young man calls and Flops is 910j. I shove he folds. 

I got back to South Florida and played in 100k guarantee tourney.  I won! $200 6 day unlimited rebuy.  So a win there validates all my studying. 

Plan is to play more tourneys and continue studying.  I am reading Ed Millers 1% book now about constructing hand ranges.  Basically it tells you to choose good stArting hands and call down way more.  Lol.  

In for this thread- we should discuss hands on here and all meet up at the WSOP. 

6/24/18 10:11 PM
1/1/01
Posts: 8479

I'm so glad I saw this thread. Going to go play poker tomorrow for the first time and probably 6 years. I used to grind online on 3-6 tables to pay my way through college years ago. And then that all went away.

There used to be a local poker room that had six tables and every Sunday had a tournament that always filled up 6 tables. I cashed in that tournament so many times and one and was one of the top players there. But then slowly it started only filling up to three tables and then they started not having the tournament at all and a couple years ago they finally closed the poker room. The nearest place is an hour away and I just got tired of playing.

 

But I'm off work now with a hand injury for a few months and getting a divorce so I've got nothing to do so I was going to go play tomorrow. See if I can find a 36 limit game and then get a free roll on a tournament.

 

I'm going to check out these videos since it's been a long time since I even read a book on poker. Wish me luck.

6/25/18 12:28 AM
10/17/15
Posts: 542

I love that this thread has taken off. Like many of you I played very seriously about five years ago and due to life and lack of quality games locally I took some time off. 

I just started playing live cash again in April and I have completely fallen in love again with the game. 

I have been studying on Upswing and renewed my membership to run it once. 

Good luck to everyone and I hope we can keep this thing going.

6/25/18 1:35 AM
4/17/17
Posts: 1633
I want to share what happened to me this weekend.

I sat down at a 8/16 limit hold em game. Didnt play the first few "free" hands I got. Then came the big blind. Got Q 10 offsuit. 4 other players in, no raise.

Flop came Js 9c 8s

SB checks. I bet. Player A folds. Player B calls. Button raises. SB calls the raise. I reraise. Player B calls the reraise. Button caps. SB calls, I call, Player B calls.

From the flop on, I was set on pushing each time to make the chasers pay, esp on a board like that.

Turn comes 3 red card.

SB checks. I bet. Player B calls. Button raises. SB calls the reraise. I three bet. Player B folds. Button says, "q 10 huh" and calls. SB calls.

River comes the 9 of spades (3rd spade and pairs the board)

SB checks. I check. Button checks.

I show out of turn the Q 10. There is a slight pause.

Player B says "I want to see all hands"

Button who was thumping her cards with her fingers says "I had a straight too" and shows him the 10s 7s. She had no idea she had the flush, let alone the straight flush.

Now I have no idea if she was going to muck the cards. And I guess Player B couldve thought I was playing partners with the button... although she was an older Asian woman. But the dude basically cost me around $320 to a player who couldnt read her own hand.

The talk afterwards was discussing how the player didnt know she had a straight flush. Not at all about the asswipe asking to see hands. Dude was sitting next to button tells the lady to always show the hand because you never know.

2 hands later, the Asian lady played K 8 offsuit. Board was KK8. Huge pot when the flush came at the river and with everyone thinking the woman didnt know how to play.

I left the table.

6/25/18 1:36 AM
4/17/17
Posts: 1634
Anyways, what site are US players using online? Are the deposits and withdrawals trustworthy?
6/26/18 6:43 AM
1/1/01
Posts: 27217
no one likes bad beat stories
6/26/18 7:23 AM
12/5/10
Posts: 1851

Where is the oger who quit his 70k a year job because he thinks poker is easy 

6/26/18 7:38 AM
1/1/01
Posts: 82994
phillymmafan - 

Where is the oger who quit his 70k a year job because he thinks poker is easy 


I'm in the middle of the worst live downswing I've ever had. I'm down 19BB an hour over 70 hours/2100 hands. 

 

 

 

6/26/18 8:17 AM
4/17/17
Posts: 1637
phydeau - no one likes bad beat stories

Not a standard bad beat story. Not even really a "bad beat" in a poker sense. Guy who ask for show, prevented a possible muck that cost me money.

But let me tell you about this real bad beat. I had a AQ raised before flop. Guy didnt like be kept playing be back with a Q9 at every step. Flop A Q 8 rainbow. 9 turn. 9 river.
6/26/18 8:26 AM
1/1/01
Posts: 82996
We Are All One Mean Species - 
phydeau - no one likes bad beat stories

Not a standard bad beat story. Not even really a "bad beat" in a poker sense. Guy who ask for show, prevented a possible muck that cost me money.

But let me tell you about this real bad beat. I had a AQ raised before flop. Guy didnt like be kept playing be back with a Q9 at every step. Flop A Q 8 rainbow. 9 turn. 9 river.

Playing 1/2 

97s Ad6s

10s 4s As 6d 6c

All in for 800+ or so on the flop. 

That's how I've been running. 

Too bad, so sad, next hand...... 

6/26/18 8:31 AM
4/17/17
Posts: 1640
Where do you play DaveFu
Edited: 6/26/18 8:52 AM
1/1/01
Posts: 82997
We Are All One Mean Species - Where do you play DaveFu

 

Florida, Orange City poker north of Orlando weekends with the drunks, guys rocking the WPT starter kit of black generic shades, ball cap, tshirt and hoodies, gangstas, crazy gambling Asians! 

 

Downswing or no, the games are too good. The only thing I hate is the 200 max buy in. 

I'm on the wrong side of town to drive to Tampa. If the games sucked there, I'd head up to Daytona Beach. 

6/26/18 11:19 AM
5/5/09
Posts: 11019

Max buy in of 200!!? You playing 1/2? Move to S FL. We have so much action down here!

Edited: 6/26/18 11:26 AM
1/1/01
Posts: 83015
DKielbasa - 

Max buy in of 200!!? You playing 1/2? Move to S FL. We have so much action down here!

 

Things are good for me here right now. Need to build a roll. At this rate, it's going to take a while lol. My room has got all the way to a 5/5 PLO game. They spread 1-2 PLO with a 500 max every weekend too. That's what I really want to play. But you need about 40 Buy Ins for that game. Until then, I'm nitting it up at 1/2. 

 

6/26/18 11:51 AM
3/2/12
Posts: 2400

dismal, dismal year.... 1100 low stakes MTT's in so far and I haven't even managed a single 4 figure score.

6/26/18 12:25 PM
1/1/01
Posts: 8480

I still have it. Drove to the casino last night and got in a$30 tournament with unlimited rebuys and an add-on before the first break. Made it to the final 3 where we chopped for $380.