OtherGround Forums Poker: getting back in after ~ 10 years...

Edited: 4/20/18 11:11 PM
1/1/01
Posts: 23446
I started learning/studying poker back in 2003 playing online, live, etc. Cool stuff, fun times back then, it was the wild west online with the rakeback bonuses and unlimited poker sites. Played one WSOP from the winnings I made (mostly from rakeback) and busted out the first day. Played in Vegas and occasionally in LA in the card rooms, but not too much the past 10 years or so.

Just recently discovered Doug Polk, Lex Veldhuis and other videos on YouTube on poker strategy and WOW...the strategy and technique has evolved so much. Really interesting to see the young guys with all of the programs and technology and game theory applying that to the game and see how much the game has evolved.

I almost feel like the old school NHB guy training back in the day...and then seeing the "modern" MMA guy. It's very cool IMO and love to see anything evolve over time.

Lex has some cool "throw back" videos of his playing from "back in the day" and Doug Polk and the Poker Lab stuff is outstanding. Really is getting me back into poker...at least playing live in card rooms in LA.



4/20/18 11:20 PM
4/14/18
Posts: 43
In.
4/20/18 11:24 PM
1/1/01
Posts: 23447
I was so impressed with the Upswing Poker videos and online articles that I signed up for their Poker Lab. It is really, really good stuff. It's laid out in a really systematic way (I'm maybe 15% of the way through it) but it's some great information that has absolutely improved my game:

NOTE: This video is not a review from me, just a review from YouTube I found.

4/20/18 11:40 PM
11/15/04
Posts: 33671

I don’t know if this is a stupid sounding question but what the hell...

These advance players and techniques/strategies or maybe more so the techniques/strategies...

Do they work on regular schlubs that play once a month for fun? Or stated another way, does the stuff you learn from the pros only work on other pros and advanced players? I feel like average, barely know the game players are going to play completely random, so I was wonder if this stuff would be much less useful against them. 

4/20/18 11:43 PM
4/18/18
Posts: 1

what chris moneymaker did for poker can't be understated.  people who'd never gambled in their lives were actually thinking about winning bracelets.  turning on the tube at 1 a.m. and finding poker after dark was like a warm blanket for me.

4/20/18 11:49 PM
6/1/16
Posts: 5332

.

4/20/18 11:50 PM
1/1/01
Posts: 23448
I can't really comment on how any of this "new" stuff affects the "modern" game.

All I can comment on is how this "new stuff" is a lot higher level poker theory than the "old school" (circa 2003/Moneymaker era).

I just started playing poker again this year after a many years off, so I can't comment on anything really. I'm just really impressed with the new information and strategy out there (a lot of it for free) that helps to add a lot more options to the game you might already be comfortable playing.
4/20/18 11:52 PM
11/18/15
Posts: 1407

Good thread

4/21/18 12:01 AM
1/1/01
Posts: 81338

Yes, 

Here is my short answer since my long answer crapped out. 

The answer is yes, but solid tight agressive ABC poker is almost certainly all that is necessary and in the land of 30 hand an hour live poker, variance can be perceived as soul crushing if you're not properly bank rolled for the game you're in. The advantage is that live, you have social players who may or may not be under the influence of drugs. 

In a static bubble where you don't get better, it takes a million or two hands to get a considerably accurate win rate.  I remember Wrekker telling me how losing YEARS were a near certainty as prop/professional player, and that's why he would play Omaha8, because of the lower variance. 

Poker is like golf. At any given time, there are maybe 5-10 people in the world who are good at the game. EVERYONE else, the best they can hope for is to suck less than the competition on that given day.  

Edited: 4/21/18 12:10 AM
1/1/01
Posts: 23449
A moment of silence for UG/OG MMA/Poker star wrekker Reggie Cardiel, I still remember watching him on ESPN at the final table on one of the WSOP events with John Juanda and maybe Negranua and he busted out and throws an elbow strike to his other hand, lol.

http://www.sherdog.com/fighter/Reggie-Cardiel-336

4/21/18 12:21 AM
1/1/01
Posts: 81342
jman - A moment of silence for UG/OG MMA/Poker star wrekker Reggie Cardiel, I still remember watching him on ESPN at the final table on one of the WSOP events with John Juanda and maybe Negranua and he busted out and throws an elbow strike to his other hand, lol.

http://www.sherdog.com/fighter/Reggie-Cardiel-336


Wearing a Tapout shirt! 

4/21/18 12:48 AM
1/1/01
Posts: 4798
ttt
4/21/18 12:56 AM
3/7/03
Posts: 6766

“Poors out my 40 oz” for wrecker 

i remember PR was really good back in the day as well 

Andreh being an up and comer

Edited: 4/21/18 2:03 AM
3/7/03
Posts: 6767

Yeah straight forward tight aggro ABC poker is the way to play to beat 1/2 and 2/5

i had the discipline to do it and i ran up a decent bankroll from just one buy in

but it just got so boring 

fold fold fold, try to hit a set, miss and then fold fold fold

just found myself wanting to be with wife and kids or outside doing other stuff 

tbh i got bored, got more aggressive and played a more LAG style and didn’t do a very good job of it:(

basic TAG is the way to go but most people can’t avoid playing trouble hands and get themselves into situations that they should have never been in simply out of boredom 

4/21/18 7:57 AM
1/1/01
Posts: 27074
LiveWire - 

I don’t know if this is a stupid sounding question but what the hell...

These advance players and techniques/strategies or maybe more so the techniques/strategies...

Do they work on regular schlubs that play once a month for fun? Or stated another way, does the stuff you learn from the pros only work on other pros and advanced players? I feel like average, barely know the game players are going to play completely random, so I was wonder if this stuff would be much less useful against them. 


The core skill in poker is knowing how to make adjustments for the table conditions.

Amateurs make the same, predictable, mistakes over and over. So there is a style of play that will exploit those mistakes that they make over and over.

However, playing an exploitative style makes you yourself exploitable. So if you are sitting at a table with mostly expert players then you need to adjust to a non-exploitative, game theory optimized style.

4/21/18 8:03 AM
1/1/01
Posts: 27075
boxcar-for-life - 

Yeah straight forward tight aggro ABC poker is the way to play to beat 1/2 and 2/5

i had the discipline to do it and i ran up a decent bankroll from just one buy in

but it just got so boring 

fold fold fold, try to hit a set, miss and then fold fold fold

just found myself wanting to be with wife and kids or outside doing other stuff 

tbh i got bored, got more aggressive and played a more LAG style and didn’t do a very good job of it:(

basic TAG is the way to go but most people can’t avoid playing trouble hands and get themselves into situations that they should have never been in simply out of boredom 


This. The profitable way to play poker and the FUN WAY to play poker are two very different things. Thank God for multi-tabeling.

I did one $90 buy-in on Poker Stars back in the day, and I played for YEARS on that. Made several withdrawals of many times my winnings.

The I found PLO and my bankroll evaporated. lol.
4/21/18 11:03 AM
1/1/01
Posts: 81349

PLO is the Debil!!!!! lol It'smy favorite game!

4/21/18 11:10 AM
4/21/10
Posts: 45097

In. Still trying to decide if I am playing the WSOP this year and if so, which event. I want to play PLO8, 8-game, or HORSE. Two events is not out of the question this year but in looking at the schedule i cant find a good time to go out where I can play two tournaments I want on the same  trip. We'll see what I do. 

4/21/18 11:12 AM
1/1/01
Posts: 81350

2-7 lowball!!!!!!

4/21/18 11:13 AM
4/21/10
Posts: 45098
phydeau -
boxcar-for-life - 

Yeah straight forward tight aggro ABC poker is the way to play to beat 1/2 and 2/5

i had the discipline to do it and i ran up a decent bankroll from just one buy in

but it just got so boring 

fold fold fold, try to hit a set, miss and then fold fold fold

just found myself wanting to be with wife and kids or outside doing other stuff 

tbh i got bored, got more aggressive and played a more LAG style and didn’t do a very good job of it:(

basic TAG is the way to go but most people can’t avoid playing trouble hands and get themselves into situations that they should have never been in simply out of boredom 


This. The profitable way to play poker and the FUN WAY to play poker are two very different things. Thank God for multi-tabeling.

I did one $90 buy-in on Poker Stars back in the day, and I played for YEARS on that. Made several withdrawals of many times my winnings.

The I found PLO and my bankroll evaporated. lol.

This! 

 

For years I have told people "if you are having fun, you are probably doing it wrong." People see the glamour of all the big tournaments on TV. What they don't see are the countless never ending hours of grinding at the table to learn and hone your skills. Yeah, winning is fun, but it takes days of stressful yet boring grinding to get to those big final tables. And cash games? They literally never end. 

4/21/18 11:17 AM
4/21/10
Posts: 45099
DaveFu -

2-7 lowball!!!!!!

2-7 TD is not out of the question. I snowed all over Todd Brunson in 2-7 TD last year. I'd love to do it again!

4/21/18 11:24 AM
1/1/01
Posts: 81351
Phuckles - 
DaveFu -

2-7 lowball!!!!!!

2-7 TD is not out of the question. I snowed all over Todd Brunson in 2-7 TD last year. I'd love to do it again!


One day, I'd love to not be terrible at that game.

Cash games do never end! I played 1/2 at the Borgata for 26 hours straight. lol I ended up 50 ahead. I probably payed at least 500 to the rake. lol

Edited: 4/21/18 11:44 AM
4/21/10
Posts: 45102
DaveFu -
Phuckles - 
DaveFu -

2-7 lowball!!!!!!

2-7 TD is not out of the question. I snowed all over Todd Brunson in 2-7 TD last year. I'd love to do it again!

 

One day, I'd love to not be terrible at that game.

Cash games do never end! I played 1/2 at the Borgata for 26 hours straight. lol I ended up 50 ahead. I probably payed at least 500 to the rake. lol

It is an awesome game and I am not sure why it's not more popular. Its like a throwback to playing five card draw when you were a kid mixed with a hold em betting structure. You have bluffs (or "snowing") and so much strategy. Tracking cards you have dumped, and all of the normal facets of poker that make it fun like reading your opponent. I love 2-7 Triple Draw. I actually started writing a strategy book on it 7-8 years ago but I can't find any of that stuff. Love the game and I've played it with some super high level guys and did quite well. 

4/21/18 11:51 AM
4/21/10
Posts: 45103

A few tips on 2-7 TD to get you started (super rudimentary stuff).

 

- beware the 6. be wary of anything but the smoothest draws if you hold a 6. It is a dangerous card and most people don't get that. In large pots you may be drawing to an 86 at best. Your chances of making a straight are just about as good as getting a better hand. I could go on a long ass rant here just believe me. The 6 is the most dangerous card in the deck imo.

- NEVER leave the gate without a 2. Ever.

- if you draw less than your opponent, you can bet blind (unless in position, they draw more, and then lead out betting. Reconsider in that circumstance).

 

Man, I haven't played since the WSOP last year. I need to brush up, but it's a fantastic game. 

4/21/18 12:02 PM
11/5/03
Posts: 19587

A couple of good "amateur pro" channels are those by Andrew neeme and Brad Owen. Local Vegas guys who vlog their cash grinder lives. 

I've played with both of them (though they didn't know who I was) at 2/5 and for sure the hands they show on their channels don't represent how they play all the time. Both were reasonably tough. 

I used to play 50+ hours a week during a tune when I was working part time in sales. 

Then I scored full time work that pays way better than any 2/5 pro could do, so I stopped playing almost completely.

The one time a month I do play, I end up giving people too much credit and way over think what's going on. 

Good luck and remember, the money is just for keeping score. If it actually means anything to you, you're going to lose.