OtherGround Forums Skeptic James Randi's $1M challenge was BS

6/11/19 11:40 PM
3/14/04
Posts: 130616
ons ear - I was always curious about the Randi challenge..I never understood why reputable psychics that truly believed in their ability weren't signing up for the challenge..

Isn't it insanely easy to prove whether a psychic is a fraud or not?

For those that follow paranormal or other strange phenomenon, is there anything to it that really baffles you?

The thing is, there is no such thing as a "reputable psychic", or hadn't you heard?
6/11/19 11:42 PM
3/14/04
Posts: 130617
yusul - <blockquote>BrowBeaten - <span id='userPost64342477' class='User-371554'><p>Jesus I'm not reading all that.</p><p> </p><p>Please explain in 3 sentences or less. </p></span></blockquote><br />

randi had no science credentials, and was a denier rarther than skeptic. <br /><br />

his org and tests were not scientific nor fair and he rejected most of the applicants. <br /><br />

he also was a liar and had other skeptics leave his org. <br /><br />

more people were hoodwinked into believing him than there were ogers scammed in a gofundme. <br /><br /><br />

sorry that's 4.

Randi was a magician, not a scientist. Scientists are often fooled by magicians. That's why Randi was successful at debunking and exposing frauds that had previously fooled scientists.

All of the so-called self-proclaimed psychics are nothing more than magicians, at best, and outright frauds at worst.

If you want to find out how a magic trick is done would you ask a magician or a scientist?
6/11/19 11:46 PM
8/20/15
Posts: 6200
RenatoCocopreta - If you're dumb enough to believe that you're standing upside down on a spinning ball of water hurtling through the universe, you'll believe literally anything.

Prove it.

6/11/19 11:56 PM
3/11/19
Posts: 104
angryinch - 
yusul - <blockquote>BrowBeaten - <span id='userPost64342477' class='User-371554'><p>Jesus I'm not reading all that.</p><p> </p><p>Please explain in 3 sentences or less. </p></span></blockquote><br />

randi had no science credentials, and was a denier rarther than skeptic. <br /><br />

his org and tests were not scientific nor fair and he rejected most of the applicants. <br /><br />

he also was a liar and had other skeptics leave his org. <br /><br />

more people were hoodwinked into believing him than there were ogers scammed in a gofundme. <br /><br /><br />

sorry that's 4.

Randi was a magician, not a scientist. Scientists are often fooled by magicians. That's why Randi was successful at debunking and exposing frauds that had previously fooled scientists.

All of the so-called self-proclaimed psychics are nothing more than magicians, at best, and outright frauds at worst.

If you want to find out how a magic trick is done would you ask a magician or a scientist?

It's a good point. And I appreciate Randi's debunking. I still have a copy of An Encyclopedia of Claims, Frauds, and Hoaxes of the Occult and Supernatural on my bookshelf.

But where Sheldrake makes this point about Randi not being a scientist, it reflects on things besides catching illusionists posing as "magicians." There are protocols for evidence, for experiments, etc. For Randi to make this challenge and be sole "judge and jury" of the "testing" of psi phenomena, even if it was real which I doubt, it was still non-scientific. As Sheldrake pointed out, "Ray Hyman, a professor of psychology and Fellow of CSICOP, pointed out this 'prize' cannot be taken seriously from a scientific point of view."

And then how many people out there say things like "No one got the $1m - psi/esp/whatever doesn't exist"? They are using a non-scientific (and IMO a sham) "challenge" as their backing. I'm not sticking up for hucksters and I am not attacking Randi at any other level. I'm saying there were a whole lot of problems with the challenge and the way Randi ran it truly seems deceptive to me.
6/11/19 11:56 PM
6/27/15
Posts: 817
dhughes - 

James Randi is a fucking hero.  Continuing the path that Houdini set out.  Fuck you, OP, for sticking up for charlatans.  I mean...do what you want...but also fuck you. :)


Spot on and I must say darn tootin!
6/12/19 12:09 AM
7/26/12
Posts: 31329
Mind One Two -
angryinch - 
yusul - <blockquote>BrowBeaten - <span id='userPost64342477' class='User-371554'><p>Jesus I'm not reading all that.</p><p> </p><p>Please explain in 3 sentences or less. </p></span></blockquote><br />

randi had no science credentials, and was a denier rarther than skeptic. <br /><br />

his org and tests were not scientific nor fair and he rejected most of the applicants. <br /><br />

he also was a liar and had other skeptics leave his org. <br /><br />

more people were hoodwinked into believing him than there were ogers scammed in a gofundme. <br /><br /><br />

sorry that's 4.

Randi was a magician, not a scientist. Scientists are often fooled by magicians. That's why Randi was successful at debunking and exposing frauds that had previously fooled scientists.

All of the so-called self-proclaimed psychics are nothing more than magicians, at best, and outright frauds at worst.

If you want to find out how a magic trick is done would you ask a magician or a scientist?

It's a good point. And I appreciate Randi's debunking. I still have a copy of An Encyclopedia of Claims, Frauds, and Hoaxes of the Occult and Supernatural on my bookshelf.

But where Sheldrake makes this point about Randi not being a scientist, it reflects on things besides catching illusionists posing as "magicians." There are protocols for evidence, for experiments, etc. For Randi to make this challenge and be sole "judge and jury" of the "testing" of psi phenomena, even if it was real which I doubt, it was still non-scientific. As Sheldrake pointed out, "Ray Hyman, a professor of psychology and Fellow of CSICOP, pointed out this 'prize' cannot be taken seriously from a scientific point of view."

And then how many people out there say things like "No one got the $1m - psi/esp/whatever doesn't exist"? They are using a non-scientific (and IMO a sham) "challenge" as their backing. I'm not sticking up for hucksters and I am not attacking Randi at any other level. I'm saying there were a whole lot of problems with the challenge and the way Randi ran it truly seems deceptive to me.

Waaah he used non science to attack non science!

 

 

6/12/19 12:10 AM
7/26/12
Posts: 31330

All he required was a protocol that the huckster needed to follow, and that protocol was same for all. It’s not a science experiment.

6/12/19 12:15 AM
3/14/04
Posts: 130618
Mind One Two - 
angryinch - 
yusul - <blockquote>BrowBeaten - <span id='userPost64342477' class='User-371554'><p>Jesus I'm not reading all that.</p><p> </p><p>Please explain in 3 sentences or less. </p></span></blockquote><br />

randi had no science credentials, and was a denier rarther than skeptic. <br /><br />

his org and tests were not scientific nor fair and he rejected most of the applicants. <br /><br />

he also was a liar and had other skeptics leave his org. <br /><br />

more people were hoodwinked into believing him than there were ogers scammed in a gofundme. <br /><br /><br />

sorry that's 4.

Randi was a magician, not a scientist. Scientists are often fooled by magicians. That's why Randi was successful at debunking and exposing frauds that had previously fooled scientists.

All of the so-called self-proclaimed psychics are nothing more than magicians, at best, and outright frauds at worst.

If you want to find out how a magic trick is done would you ask a magician or a scientist?

It's a good point. And I appreciate Randi's debunking. I still have a copy of An Encyclopedia of Claims, Frauds, and Hoaxes of the Occult and Supernatural on my bookshelf.

But where Sheldrake makes this point about Randi not being a scientist, it reflects on things besides catching illusionists posing as "magicians." There are protocols for evidence, for experiments, etc. For Randi to make this challenge and be sole "judge and jury" of the "testing" of psi phenomena, even if it was real which I doubt, it was still non-scientific. As Sheldrake pointed out, "Ray Hyman, a professor of psychology and Fellow of CSICOP, pointed out this 'prize' cannot be taken seriously from a scientific point of view."

And then how many people out there say things like "No one got the $1m - psi/esp/whatever doesn't exist"? They are using a non-scientific (and IMO a sham) "challenge" as their backing. I'm not sticking up for hucksters and I am not attacking Randi at any other level. I'm saying there were a whole lot of problems with the challenge and the way Randi ran it truly seems deceptive to me.

scientists do not know how to set up protocols or controls to catch magicians. Those types of protocols are best devised and set up by magicians who know the tricks used by fakes proclaiming to be psychics.

As a matter of fact, Randi was often consulted by scientists who claimed they had come across a psychic who was exhibiting powers they couldn't explain and wanted ways to find out if they were for real. Randi would give them some very simple controls to set up which would inevitably always cause the "psychic's" powers to magically desert him.
6/12/19 1:06 AM
3/11/19
Posts: 105
angryinch you are 100% right about magicians and scientists.

but there is more to the testing (and scientific research) than magicians.

what about, for example, sheldrake's research that seems to show some sixth sense in dogs? is randi the guy to set that up? maybe to consult for tricks like dog whistles like you said about consulting, but no, he's not the guy.

6/12/19 1:14 AM
3/14/04
Posts: 130620
Mind One Two - angryinch you are 100% right about magicians and scientists.

but there is more to the testing (and scientific research) than magicians.

what about, for example, sheldrake's research that seems to show some sixth sense in dogs? is randi the guy to set that up? maybe to consult for tricks like dog whistles like you said about consulting, but no, he's not the guy.


Interesting you bring that up with me. I'm a certified dog trainer. Never seen anything resembling esp in dogs despite having worked with thousands of them.
6/12/19 1:20 AM
3/11/19
Posts: 106
angryinch - 
Mind One Two - angryinch you are 100% right about magicians and scientists.

but there is more to the testing (and scientific research) than magicians.

what about, for example, sheldrake's research that seems to show some sixth sense in dogs? is randi the guy to set that up? maybe to consult for tricks like dog whistles like you said about consulting, but no, he's not the guy.


Interesting you bring that up with me. I'm a certified dog trainer. Never seen anything resembling esp in dogs despite having worked with thousands of them.

That's a nice anecdote but in particular the strongest effects Sheldrake found revolved around a dog's connection to its human family.

You know the old stories about the dog being left home while the owners move across the country then the dog shows up at the new house, or does a dog really sense beforehand if its owners are coming home.

But I don't care if dogs have esp or not. That's not the issue. The issue re sheldrake is that randi 1) lied multiple times, 2) misdirected, 3) played a waiting game that is roughly equivalent to a refusal to allow the testing, etc.

He tried to have it two ways and it's not a bad strategy: call out a guy "oh if you really believe in dog esp then why not take the challenge?" to make him look silly and then refuse to let him take the challenge when he accepts.
6/12/19 6:24 AM
1/1/01
Posts: 6901

Pedophile magician.

6/12/19 6:35 AM
2/25/13
Posts: 26054

"Concerning the challenge, I always have an 'out': I'm right!"

6/12/19 6:36 AM
5/24/17
Posts: 2470

Did you guys see his movie? 

6/12/19 7:44 AM
6/26/06
Posts: 11300
Robert Thomas - 
RenatoCocopreta - If you're dumb enough to believe that you're standing upside down on a spinning ball of water hurtling through the universe, you'll believe literally anything.

Prove it.


Please post your sub-retard SAT scores.
6/12/19 7:50 AM
11/15/04
Posts: 37484

In for later, real or fake, I enjoy reading this stuff. It’s entertaining. 

Thanks Prof Redneck!

6/12/19 9:02 AM
6/8/10
Posts: 15218
RenatoCocopreta -
Robert Thomas - 
RenatoCocopreta - If you're dumb enough to believe that you're standing upside down on a spinning ball of water hurtling through the universe, you'll believe literally anything.

Prove it.


Please post your sub-retard SAT scores.

You are the one claiming the earth is flat, I think the burden of proof would fall on you. 

6/12/19 9:32 AM
9/30/09
Posts: 8959

 

6/12/19 9:33 AM
9/30/09
Posts: 8960

SOOOOOOO GOOD!

6/12/19 9:33 AM
9/30/09
Posts: 8961
BostonCharm -

SOOOOOOO GOOD!

 

6/12/19 9:53 AM
9/30/09
Posts: 8962

 

6/12/19 4:01 PM
1/1/01
Posts: 31851

Why would he even test dogs? What would a dog do with a million dollars.

6/12/19 4:10 PM
9/27/15
Posts: 9562
yabadaba - 
ons ear - I was always curious about the Randi challenge..I never understood why reputable psychics that truly believed in their ability weren't signing up for the challenge..

Isn't it insanely easy to prove whether a psychic is a fraud or not?

For those that follow paranormal or other strange phenomenon, is there anything to it that really baffles you?

"reputable psychics"?

Lol perhaps I worded it wrong but there have been popular psychics and fortune tellers through the years..many swore these people had knowledge from beyond the grave etc
6/12/19 5:17 PM
8/31/18
Posts: 532
ons ear -
yabadaba - 
ons ear - I was always curious about the Randi challenge..I never understood why reputable psychics that truly believed in their ability weren't signing up for the challenge..

Isn't it insanely easy to prove whether a psychic is a fraud or not?

For those that follow paranormal or other strange phenomenon, is there anything to it that really baffles you?

"reputable psychics"?

Lol perhaps I worded it wrong but there have been popular psychics and fortune tellers through the years..many swore these people had knowledge from beyond the grave etc

Miss Cleo? Jon Edwards? The long island medium? 

6/12/19 5:37 PM
1/1/01
Posts: 101805
My trouble with Jon Edwards is that he never tells anyone anything useful, just that whomever ghost is'okay'. Well, if they weren't, was difference does it make? Fuckall anyone can do about a spirit rotting in their own hell.

So, real of fake, it all adds up to 'so what'. Beyond cold reading or whatever, it's just entertainment. But, it preys on peoples' emotions. I went to a college thing Edwards was at... kind of interesting but all of the women acted the same way. If he chose a women to prove he was communicating with a ghost of someone they knew, as soon as the lady would stand up, they would start crying even before Edwards told them anything. Pure 100% emotion. No wonder he's rich