OtherGround Forums Special Counsel for Trump/Russia Megathread

7/18/18 10:24 PM
2/28/12
Posts: 3091
George Papadopoulos' wife was on Tucker tonight... kind of interesting

https://youtu.be/oo1hsb4Tu_Y?t=37m34s
7/19/18 1:02 AM
7/31/09
Posts: 4282
Hammerstein -
robbie380 - 

Replying to PSL...this site keeps giving me errors when I try to reply to your post

 

I’m not saying it’s a good thing or bad thing. I’m just saying it’s common and hasn’t really been enforced until just now. I think it’s a convenient line of attack that the Feds are utilizing to pile charges on to people.  I highly doubt there will be a greater enforcement of this after the Russia stuff has died down in a couple years, but you never know. 

Also, from my perspective I don’t give the Feds the benefit of the doubt with respect to their indictments. They are presenting their side of the story and as we know an indictment isn’t a conviction or even necessarily reality. My dad was a paralegal at a law firm that was involved in an Enron related case with Andrew Weissmann where Weissman withheld exculpatory evidence which resulted in their client going to jail. Eventually the case was appealed and the conviction was overturned. My dad holds a very low opinion of Weissmann.

Also, the Feds are unrelenting and have nearly endless resources and they know they can use that to bully defendants. That’s basically the tactic they have used in the Russia investigation. The smaller guys that they have got guilty pleas from on mostly procedural issues didn’t have the resources to fight the Feds. They drop a shitload of charges on them and force a plea or else you go broke or end up in jail for a long time. In that case I mentioned with my dad their client had the money to launch and appeal but there were a couple others that were convicted that couldn’t appeal and they got stuck in jail.

I’m not saying this is a “witch hunt”, but these are just common tactics that the Feds use. If they for some reason come to talk to you then cooperate and don’t lie. If they are looking for a conviction to save face then they will try as hard as they can to find something. Look at that relatively recent backpage crackdown. The Feds tried to go after the founder and a couple other higher ups for pimping and indicted them on a laundry list of charges. The case got thrown out of court. So what did the Feds do? Got on a crusade and rebranded the charges as child sex trafficking and human trafficking and they got backpage shutdown as well as some other bs legislation passed. 

Ok I’m done ranting but my point is I don’t give them the benefit of the doubt and no one should.


To me it would seem more like they weren't really paying the attention they should have been and that's how they got caught with their pants down. I think it should be obvious that this is a hole that was exploited by Russia to get close to the White House. I also think it's a good think this law exists, because without it the US would be even more powerless to do anything about what happened other than plug the hole.

Did you read this article that I posted earlier?

https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2017/10/30/paul-manafort-indictment-foreign-lobbying-russia-probe-215764

 

It gives a different perspective on FARA based on the actual enforcement of the law. 

Edited: 7/19/18 1:06 AM
7/31/09
Posts: 4283
Green Vermonster - George Papadopoulos' wife was on Tucker tonight... kind of interesting

https://youtu.be/oo1hsb4Tu_Y?t=37m34s

She's smoking hot.  I don't know what she said, but I believe her!

7/19/18 1:08 AM
6/2/14
Posts: 1382

Is it over yet?  I check every day cuz people say it's over but it's not over.

Edited: 7/19/18 9:22 AM
3/28/02
Posts: 5466
mdmrules -
Pumpkin Spice Lazarus - 
mdmrules - This is just a great, informative thread.

But honestly, there's just no reaching most hardline right wingers on the internet. Even with unedited video evidence they will just dance around reality. Their brains can't tune into the real world anymore because their figureheads and spokespeople use the same brainwashing strategy as cults use, and it's very effective. I don't see Trump apologists and different than brainwashed Scientologists at this point.

It's actually not even about politics TBH, I just call them "right wingers" because that's mostly who they are spouting support for, but it's not really something resembling a political ideology... it's just a cult that will support anything as long as they are told to by the "right" people.

They are weak, bootlicking, terrified babies. They lack the mental fortitude to think for themselves, or look inward for answers to life's problems.

What used to be a bunch of scattered, inconsistent theories about chemtrails, or the New World Order that caught the attention of naive, and highly paranoid people has morphed into a single, bizarrely Pro-Russian narrative that they all fall back on to feel safe when reality challenges what they want to be real.

When they're cornered, they attack the messenger, fall back to impossible whataboutisms, and say just about anything to deflect away from how clueless they are in the face of what's obviously going on. Any push-back just makes them dig in harder because, like good little soldiers, they've been told how to confront criticms and reject (as hard as possible) any other sources of information except their own.

These threads usually end up being a complete waste of time becaue of it, but PSL is a real person taking this seriously and so are the investigators, so the usual retarded schtick of changing the subject and insulting people isn't working. Kinda refreshing to see actually. Nice work OP.
 

Thank you.

I think you accurately describe some people. I've been throwing the word "cult" around lately too because the backlash when I criticize Trump for anything is pretty crazy. For some people -- there's no mistake he can make that can't be deflected, turned around as an argument against "the Left", "MSM", or the Dems. It's bizarre, and clearly there are times where the criticism is fair and Trump taking responsibility for it is the obvious, grown-up response.

But I wouldn't generalize, as always, and will say this does not apply at all to all conservatives, all people who voted for Trump, or all people who maintain their support and hope to see him take on another 4 years in 2020. There are a thousand different legitimate reasons to support him.

& to be fair -- there are some left-leaning folks who are out of touch with reality when it comes to this investigation too. Check out Louise Mensch's Twitter feed at https://twitter.com/LouiseMensch and read some of the comments. I'm looking at an article she wrote about there being a sealed indictment for Trump from May 2017. She just re-upped it and still maintains she has an inside source confirming it, and a horde of people following her who think she's right.


Ya, that's why I mentioned that this doesn't really resemble right wing political ideology, it resembles a cult.

There are people representing all perspectives that would fight forever rather than admit their team is wrong, but that's always been true.

Trumpism is intoxicating to paranoid and delusional people because of its cult-like persuasions, so it's no coincidence that many of the people pushing the hardest for Trump online sound so paranoid and delusional. I mean, it's much greater than any political movement I have ever witnessed... and Politics is already mostly based on half-truths, spin, and a cult-of-personality... even considering that, Trumpism stands out.

I think many of the MAGtards are struggling and are very angry, hurt, desperate....

They are then emotionally vulnerable to a demagogue like Trump who says I understand your pain and I will set things right.....  remember the definition of a demagogue - a leader who drives folks with their baser emotions.

At this point their political views become more articles of faith as opposed to well reasoned positions.

ultimately you want to understand their anger/desperation as they have very valid issues but just have picked a fatally flawed leader.

So you wind up with this tribe/cult of angry/desperate folks who need to believe that their great leader will make things better...

 

just my two cents

 

7/19/18 10:52 AM
6/22/13
Posts: 606
EazyG -
mdmrules -
Pumpkin Spice Lazarus - 
mdmrules - This is just a great, informative thread.

But honestly, there's just no reaching most hardline right wingers on the internet. Even with unedited video evidence they will just dance around reality. Their brains can't tune into the real world anymore because their figureheads and spokespeople use the same brainwashing strategy as cults use, and it's very effective. I don't see Trump apologists and different than brainwashed Scientologists at this point.

It's actually not even about politics TBH, I just call them "right wingers" because that's mostly who they are spouting support for, but it's not really something resembling a political ideology... it's just a cult that will support anything as long as they are told to by the "right" people.

They are weak, bootlicking, terrified babies. They lack the mental fortitude to think for themselves, or look inward for answers to life's problems.

What used to be a bunch of scattered, inconsistent theories about chemtrails, or the New World Order that caught the attention of naive, and highly paranoid people has morphed into a single, bizarrely Pro-Russian narrative that they all fall back on to feel safe when reality challenges what they want to be real.

When they're cornered, they attack the messenger, fall back to impossible whataboutisms, and say just about anything to deflect away from how clueless they are in the face of what's obviously going on. Any push-back just makes them dig in harder because, like good little soldiers, they've been told how to confront criticms and reject (as hard as possible) any other sources of information except their own.

These threads usually end up being a complete waste of time becaue of it, but PSL is a real person taking this seriously and so are the investigators, so the usual retarded schtick of changing the subject and insulting people isn't working. Kinda refreshing to see actually. Nice work OP.
 

Thank you.

I think you accurately describe some people. I've been throwing the word "cult" around lately too because the backlash when I criticize Trump for anything is pretty crazy. For some people -- there's no mistake he can make that can't be deflected, turned around as an argument against "the Left", "MSM", or the Dems. It's bizarre, and clearly there are times where the criticism is fair and Trump taking responsibility for it is the obvious, grown-up response.

But I wouldn't generalize, as always, and will say this does not apply at all to all conservatives, all people who voted for Trump, or all people who maintain their support and hope to see him take on another 4 years in 2020. There are a thousand different legitimate reasons to support him.

& to be fair -- there are some left-leaning folks who are out of touch with reality when it comes to this investigation too. Check out Louise Mensch's Twitter feed at https://twitter.com/LouiseMensch and read some of the comments. I'm looking at an article she wrote about there being a sealed indictment for Trump from May 2017. She just re-upped it and still maintains she has an inside source confirming it, and a horde of people following her who think she's right.


Ya, that's why I mentioned that this doesn't really resemble right wing political ideology, it resembles a cult.

There are people representing all perspectives that would fight forever rather than admit their team is wrong, but that's always been true.

Trumpism is intoxicating to paranoid and delusional people because of its cult-like persuasions, so it's no coincidence that many of the people pushing the hardest for Trump online sound so paranoid and delusional. I mean, it's much greater than any political movement I have ever witnessed... and Politics is already mostly based on half-truths, spin, and a cult-of-personality... even considering that, Trumpism stands out.

I think many of the MAGtards are struggling and are very angry, hurt, desperate....

They are then emotionally vulnerable to a demagogue like Trump who says I understand your pain and I will set things right.....  remember the definition of a demagogue - a leader who drives folks with their baser emotions.

At this point their political views become more articles of faith as opposed to well reasoned positions.

ultimately you want to understand their anger/desperation as they have very valid issues but just have picked a fatally flawed leader.

So you wind up with this tribe/cult of angry/desperate folks who need to believe that their great leader will make things better...

 

just my two cents

 

Good analogy.  Their arguments do seem more emotional than fact based and they cling to the littlest things while willfully ignoring others.  

This thread is proof of that… those that stuck around to argue the facts seem to have changed a bit and opened their minds and are not as rabid.  Then again, there are many who drop in just to add their triggered 2 cents.

Same with the ‘pics to troll trumptards thread’…. Amazing how many feel the need to post ‘not funny’ when the pics were meant to troll… and that fact is totally lost on them and they react with a triggered emotional response.  

I just wonder what will happen if Trump is indicted... how will their universe handle it?

 

7/19/18 11:02 AM
2/4/09
Posts: 2859

Now that the hysteria has slightly died down with the news. 

 

Maria "batina" and torshin were also mentioned in the house intel report. Pages 83-84

 

Also just saw news reports that they have identified the skripal poisoning suspect. 

 

Curious to see if they claim related the brexit/us stuff

7/19/18 11:12 AM
2/4/09
Posts: 2860

Also new from buzzfeed with regards to the analytics data 

------

 

The Russians successfully logged into and copied the contents of the server, which the Democratic National Committee had rented from Amazon Web Services to test applications that would allow campaign workers to access voter information, the former and current employees said.

“It’s clear that the Russians were targeting the DNC’s analytics information and were trying to take the DNC’s data,” Adrienne Watson, a spokesperson for the party, told BuzzFeed News.

But there was little to no voter information on the hacked server when the Russians compromised it, the current and former employees said. While the server might have contained some voter data that the Democrats had used in testing possible voting scenarios, Watson said, it didn’t contain the campaign’s troves of information detailing which voters were likely to cast ballots for Clinton.

Most of that data had been moved months earlier to servers that were used by the Hillary for America campaign, an organization that was separate from the DNC, according to a former party employee.

The revelation last week in the indictment of 12 Russian intelligence agents that hackers had broken into the leased Amazon server in September 2016, long after the Democrats had been told the Russians had been expelled from the party’s computer systems, gave rise to concerns that the hack had allowed the Russians to exploit the Democrats’ own analysis of where Clinton’s campaign was flagging in its final weeks.

But Democratic Party workers said they believe that would have been impossible, both because the server had been used only as a “testing ground” for applications, and because those applications only worked for Democratic National Committee data. By the time of the hack, that data had been transferred to a different computer system operated by the Hillary for America campaign.

 

https://www.buzzfeednews.com/amphtml/kevincollier/democrats-hacking-trump-russians-mueller-indictment?__twitter_impression=true

7/19/18 11:40 AM
12/5/17
Posts: 5089
NoNeed4aScreenName -

Now that the hysteria has slightly died down with the news. 

 

Maria "batina" and torshin were also mentioned in the house intel report. Pages 83-84

 

Also just saw news reports that they have identified the skripal poisoning suspect. 

 

Curious to see if they claim related the brexit/us stuff

Fwiw — Butina’s arrest is unrelated to anything related to the campaign. The FBI has been monitoring her since she arrived on a student visa.

That Yahoo article I posted earlier is reckless with it’s headline, but I haven’t been seeing much reporting on her harping on the Trump Jr. contact from legitimate outlets since her arrest. 

7/19/18 11:42 AM
2/4/09
Posts: 2862

Also just came across this. Wonder if it happens. Would love for it to happen just to set the record straight. If the interpreter isnt lying that is

 

 

7/19/18 11:57 AM
12/5/17
Posts: 5090
NoNeed4aScreenName -

Also just came across this. Wonder if it happens. Would love for it to happen just to set the record straight. If the interpreter isnt lying that is

 

 

Already failed

7/19/18 12:23 PM
12/5/17
Posts: 5091
Pumpkin Spice Lazarus -
NoNeed4aScreenName -

Also just came across this. Wonder if it happens. Would love for it to happen just to set the record straight. If the interpreter isnt lying that is

 

 

Already failed

Dems will have subpoena power and will be a huge pain in Trump’s ass if they take the House in November, but I’m not so sure that’s an appropriate request. 

Trump is the POTUS. & he clearly fucked up in Helsinki, but that doesn’t warrant a subpoena to compel his translator to testify. 

If Rosenstein delivers a bucket of evidence and a recommendation to impeach that will be a different matter.

7/19/18 12:41 PM
3/28/02
Posts: 5470
Pumpkin Spice Lazarus -
Pumpkin Spice Lazarus -
NoNeed4aScreenName -

Also just came across this. Wonder if it happens. Would love for it to happen just to set the record straight. If the interpreter isnt lying that is

 

 

Already failed

Dems will have subpoena power and will be a huge pain in Trump’s ass if they take the House in November, but I’m not so sure that’s an appropriate request. 

Trump is the POTUS. & he clearly fucked up in Helsinki, but that doesn’t warrant a subpoena to compel his translator to testify. 

If Rosenstein delivers a bucket of evidence and a recommendation to impeach that will be a different matter.

agreed

I tend to view Trump's behavior towards Putin as driven by his deep insecurity when folks question the legitimacy of his election.  

I dont see value in subpoenaing the interpreter.  just another political move.

if dems take house this fall, there is more than enough questionable behavior in the Trump administration for them to focus on.  They will go too far, but that is the current  game I fear

7/19/18 1:29 PM
12/5/17
Posts: 5101
EazyG -
Pumpkin Spice Lazarus -
Pumpkin Spice Lazarus -
NoNeed4aScreenName -

Also just came across this. Wonder if it happens. Would love for it to happen just to set the record straight. If the interpreter isnt lying that is

 

 

Already failed

Dems will have subpoena power and will be a huge pain in Trump’s ass if they take the House in November, but I’m not so sure that’s an appropriate request. 

Trump is the POTUS. & he clearly fucked up in Helsinki, but that doesn’t warrant a subpoena to compel his translator to testify. 

If Rosenstein delivers a bucket of evidence and a recommendation to impeach that will be a different matter.

agreed

I tend to view Trump's behavior towards Putin as driven by his deep insecurity when folks question the legitimacy of his election.  

I dont see value in subpoenaing the interpreter.  just another political move.

if dems take house this fall, there is more than enough questionable behavior in the Trump administration for them to focus on.  They will go too far, but that is the current  game I fear

Yep. 

But if they win — fuck it. The Republicans aren’t playing nice with their power. The Dems should resist the urge to be civil when it comes to using the power of congress imo. 

Playing nice has resulted in two supreme court picks going to Trump, and we might see a third. 

7/19/18 1:45 PM
12/5/17
Posts: 5103
Pumpkin Spice Lazarus -
NoNeed4aScreenName -

Now that the hysteria has slightly died down with the news. 

 

Maria "batina" and torshin were also mentioned in the house intel report. Pages 83-84

 

Also just saw news reports that they have identified the skripal poisoning suspect. 

 

Curious to see if they claim related the brexit/us stuff

Fwiw — Butina’s arrest is unrelated to anything related to the campaign. The FBI has been monitoring her since she arrived on a student visa.

That Yahoo article I posted earlier is reckless with it’s headline, but I haven’t been seeing much reporting on her harping on the Trump Jr. contact from legitimate outlets since her arrest. 

Also wondering how the HPSCI R’s feel about their work on Butina now. The claim is that they refused request to bring her and Paul Erickson in for questioning. 

Edited: 7/19/18 2:56 PM
12/5/17
Posts: 5107
Hammerstein -
Pumpkin Spice Lazarus - 
NoNeed4aScreenName -

Now that the hysteria has slightly died down with the news. 

 

Maria "batina" and torshin were also mentioned in the house intel report. Pages 83-84

 

Also just saw news reports that they have identified the skripal poisoning suspect. 

 

Curious to see if they claim related the brexit/us stuff

Fwiw — Butina’s arrest is unrelated to anything related to the campaign. The FBI has been monitoring her since she arrived on a student visa.

That Yahoo article I posted earlier is reckless with it’s headline, but I haven’t been seeing much reporting on her harping on the Trump Jr. contact from legitimate outlets since her arrest. 


The headline was a direct quote from the Spanish prosecutor:
Grinda replied: “Mr. Trump’s son should be concerned.”

I know, but then he handed over recorded convos between Torshin and Romanov without any sort of mention of why Trump Jr. should be worried. 

Not typical behavior from a prosecutor. Imagine Andrew Weissmann commenting publicly that Stone should be worried or something. 

I considered the reporting to be irresponsible at the time: http://www.businessinsider.com/fbi-obtains-alexander-torshin-wiretaps-from-spanish-police-2018-5 for more details. 

Now that I think about it the fact that the FBI made those requests and then nabbed Butina adds more credibility though.

7/19/18 3:02 PM
12/5/17
Posts: 5108

Butina: “Meester Trump — on behalf of government of Russia I will fuck you and give you dirt on Madam Clinton”

Trump Jr.: “If it’s what you say I love it!”

7/19/18 3:20 PM
7/31/09
Posts: 4287
Hammerstein -
robbie380 - 
Hammerstein -
robbie380 - 

Replying to PSL...this site keeps giving me errors when I try to reply to your post

 

I’m not saying it’s a good thing or bad thing. I’m just saying it’s common and hasn’t really been enforced until just now. I think it’s a convenient line of attack that the Feds are utilizing to pile charges on to people.  I highly doubt there will be a greater enforcement of this after the Russia stuff has died down in a couple years, but you never know. 

Also, from my perspective I don’t give the Feds the benefit of the doubt with respect to their indictments. They are presenting their side of the story and as we know an indictment isn’t a conviction or even necessarily reality. My dad was a paralegal at a law firm that was involved in an Enron related case with Andrew Weissmann where Weissman withheld exculpatory evidence which resulted in their client going to jail. Eventually the case was appealed and the conviction was overturned. My dad holds a very low opinion of Weissmann.

Also, the Feds are unrelenting and have nearly endless resources and they know they can use that to bully defendants. That’s basically the tactic they have used in the Russia investigation. The smaller guys that they have got guilty pleas from on mostly procedural issues didn’t have the resources to fight the Feds. They drop a shitload of charges on them and force a plea or else you go broke or end up in jail for a long time. In that case I mentioned with my dad their client had the money to launch and appeal but there were a couple others that were convicted that couldn’t appeal and they got stuck in jail.

I’m not saying this is a “witch hunt”, but these are just common tactics that the Feds use. If they for some reason come to talk to you then cooperate and don’t lie. If they are looking for a conviction to save face then they will try as hard as they can to find something. Look at that relatively recent backpage crackdown. The Feds tried to go after the founder and a couple other higher ups for pimping and indicted them on a laundry list of charges. The case got thrown out of court. So what did the Feds do? Got on a crusade and rebranded the charges as child sex trafficking and human trafficking and they got backpage shutdown as well as some other bs legislation passed. 

Ok I’m done ranting but my point is I don’t give them the benefit of the doubt and no one should.


To me it would seem more like they weren't really paying the attention they should have been and that's how they got caught with their pants down. I think it should be obvious that this is a hole that was exploited by Russia to get close to the White House. I also think it's a good think this law exists, because without it the US would be even more powerless to do anything about what happened other than plug the hole.

Did you read this article that I posted earlier?

https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2017/10/30/paul-manafort-indictment-foreign-lobbying-russia-probe-215764

 

It gives a different perspective on FARA based on the actual enforcement of the law. 


I know. I'm saying I disagree and why.

I guess I don’t fully understand your point since this law has almost never been enforced and is easily avoided with the example given in that link. Are you saying it’s good that we have a law on the books that was able to be used to arrest her and figure out if she was up to anything nefarious? 

Also, if she was some kind of spy like people are alleging then it would be sloppy and inefficient way of doing things in my mind.  I’m curious too if there were also Russian lobbyists like Butina trying to get closer to DNC members as well. I’d have to assume so since they would have to cozy up to both parties to try to have a chance at getting sanctions relaxed. 

7/19/18 3:25 PM
2/28/12
Posts: 3096
robbie380 - 
Green Vermonster - George Papadopoulos' wife was on Tucker tonight... kind of interesting

https://youtu.be/oo1hsb4Tu_Y?t=37m34s

She's smoking hot.  I don't know what she said, but I believe her!


Hot AF
7/19/18 4:17 PM
12/5/17
Posts: 5110

Looking for video of DNI Dan Coats speaking and taking questions at the Aspen Security Forum once it’s available. 

7/19/18 4:50 PM
2/4/09
Posts: 2864
Pumpkin Spice Lazarus -

Looking for video of DNI Dan Coats speaking and taking questions at the Aspen Security Forum once it’s available. 

Was the forum held today?

7/19/18 4:51 PM
6/27/05
Posts: 22612

We get it guys....you aren’t going to vote for Trump in 2020.

 

 

7/19/18 4:51 PM
2/4/09
Posts: 2865

 

7/19/18 4:52 PM
12/5/17
Posts: 5111
NoNeed4aScreenName -
Pumpkin Spice Lazarus -

Looking for video of DNI Dan Coats speaking and taking questions at the Aspen Security Forum once it’s available. 

Was the forum held today?

Yeah. He might even still be speaking. Seeing a lot of quotes pulled from it and want to see them in context.

7/19/18 4:52 PM
2/4/09
Posts: 2866

post above yours