OtherGround Forums The Invention of God by Thomas Romer

15 days ago
3/28/02
Posts: 8148
NiteProwleR -

"tetragrammaton"

More like megatron

Maybe megatron was an early god of israel?

15 days ago
1/1/01
Posts: 24330

in for later

15 days ago
6/10/02
Posts: 8398

Sounds similar to the book "A History of God" by Karen Armstrong, though the book in the OP focuses specifically on the evolution of the Hebrew God while Armstrong's book is a broader and encompasses the Big Three, plus Buddhism and Hinduism.

Pretty crazy what a few thousand years can produce.

15 days ago
8/7/12
Posts: 13065

Its all fake. Kinda like pro wrestling.

15 days ago
12/25/13
Posts: 3442

I think most Christians would be surprised that Judaism wasn’t the first monotheistic religion, and that Judaism didn’t start out monotheistic. 

15 days ago
1/25/04
Posts: 134291
EazyG - 
Jack Carter -

What religion/religious ideology have you adopted EasyG? Easy to always attack religious cults while keeping the details of your religiosity under lock and key. 

Agnostic . 

 

Not sure this thread will interest traditional/orthodox believers......


Ok. I thought you said you were "religious" a while back.
15 days ago
3/28/02
Posts: 8149
Ryazzo - I vauguely remember as a kid a warlock who wouldnt stop trying to get people to say the real name of god.

Strange behavior

15 days ago
3/28/02
Posts: 8150
The Green Bastard -

I think most Christians would be surprised that Judaism wasn’t the first monotheistic religion, and that Judaism didn’t start out monotheistic. 

What was 1st monotheistic religion?

Akhnaten and his followers with their Sun god?

 

15 days ago
6/26/13
Posts: 2495
EazyG - 
Ryazzo - I vauguely remember as a kid a warlock who wouldnt stop trying to get people to say the real name of god.

Strange behavior


it was a joke. Im surprised no one watched the Warlock movies as a kid.

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0098622/

In Boston of 1691, a warlock is sentenced to death, but escapes magically into the future (our present), followed doggedly by the witch hunter. There he is searching for the three parts of the Devil's Bible, trailed by the witch hunter and the woman whose house he landed in. They must stop him, as the book contains the true name of God, which he can use to un-create the world.
15 days ago
3/28/02
Posts: 8151
oldnslow -

Sounds similar to the book "A History of God" by Karen Armstrong, though the book in the OP focuses specifically on the evolution of the Hebrew God while Armstrong's book is a broader and encompasses the Big Three, plus Buddhism and Hinduism.

Pretty crazy what a few thousand years can produce.

Some similarities but this is much more in depth than Armstrong's book.  And i am a big Armstrong fan.

Romer is a leading expert in his field and it shows

Edited: 15 days ago
11/11/11
Posts: 25036

Mother Nature is the one true spirit. She provides love and sufficient reources for all on this bountiful planet. You humans and your super hero characters.

15 days ago
6/7/05
Posts: 27152
Wouldn't it just boil down to Christians believing that some Jews had it right and some didn't, and that Jesus came to fulfill the law they got right and to usher in a new era of spiritual faith?
15 days ago
4/6/12
Posts: 11939

Sub

15 days ago
11/15/04
Posts: 39211
EazyG - 
The Green Bastard -

I think most Christians would be surprised that Judaism wasn’t the first monotheistic religion, and that Judaism didn’t start out monotheistic. 

What was 1st monotheistic religion?

Akhnaten and his followers with their Sun god?

 


Zoharastarianism, I thought?

15 days ago
11/15/04
Posts: 39212

Here, OP, you'll enjoy this

Genesis 1:26

26Then God said, “Let Us make man in Our image, after Our likeness, to rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air, over the livestock, and over all the earth itself and every creature that crawls upon it.” 

 

People tend to gloss over this simple statement...God says let "US" make man in "OUR" image. Pretty clear indication that the early Jews believed in more than one God.

Edited: 15 days ago
2/4/09
Posts: 11583

Interesting. 

 

Nobody will call us antisemitic for discussing this though will they?

14 days ago
3/28/02
Posts: 8153
NoNeed4aScreenName -

Interesting. 

 

Nobody will call us antisemitic for discussing this though will they?

Dont think so

Many of the leading scholars are Jewish and they get along well wirh non Jewish scholars

Edited: 14 days ago
3/28/02
Posts: 8154
LiveWire -

Here, OP, you'll enjoy this

Genesis 1:26

26Then God said, “Let Us make man in Our image, after Our likeness, to rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air, over the livestock, and over all the earth itself and every creature that crawls upon it.” 

 

People tend to gloss over this simple statement...God says let "US" make man in "OUR" image. Pretty clear indication that the early Jews believed in more than one God.

That is interesting!

i wish i knew biblical Hebrew - the names of God are a  big deal and the translations dont often capture the key nuances.

I think the Hebrew there is Elohim which is the masculine plural......

Apparently Yahweh had a consort early on - Asherah.  Many male gods had a consort

 

Edited: 14 days ago
3/28/02
Posts: 8155
sadic1 - Wouldn't it just boil down to Christians believing that some Jews had it right and some didn't, and that Jesus came to fulfill the law they got right and to usher in a new era of spiritual faith?

That is certainly one Christian interpretation but again the early Christians' understanding of God took alot from Judaism

14 days ago
5/14/13
Posts: 6039
EazyG -

However, the redactors of the Bible were evidently working off older traditions, Römer says.

“Biblical texts are not direct historical sources. They reflect the ideas, the ideologies of their authors and of course of the historical context in which they were written,” Römer explains.

 

Still, he notes, “you can have memories of a distant past, sometimes in a very confusing way or in a very oriented way. But I think we can, and we must, use the biblical text not just as fictional texts but as texts that can tell us stories about the origins.”

What's in God's name

The first clue that the ancient Israelites worshipped gods other than the deity known as Yhwh lies in their very name. “Israel” is a theophoric name going back at least 3200 years, which includes and invokes the name of a protective deity.

Going by the name, the main god of the ancient Israelites was not Yhwh, but El, the chief deity in the Canaanite pantheon, who was worshipped throughout the Levant.

In other words, the name "Israel" is probably older than the veneration of Yhwh by this group called Israel, Römer says. “The first tutelary deity they were worshipping was El, otherwise their name would have been Israyahu.”

The gilded statue of El himself, from Megiddo, 1400-1200 BCE. Daderot, Wikimedia Commons

The Bible appears to address this early worship of El in Exodus 6:3, when God tells Moses that he “appeared to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob as El Shaddai (today translated as "God Almighty") but was not known to them by my name Yhwh.”

Big "hat"

 

Odd coincidence.

14 days ago
1/1/01
Posts: 63608
EazyG -

Here is the review:

 

How the Jews Invented God, and Made Him Great

The God of the Old Testament started out as just one of many deities of the ancient Israelites. It took a traumatic crisis to make him into the all-powerful creator.

 

Jews, Christians and Muslims all believe in a single, omnipotent deity that created the heavens and earth. But if he was and is the only god, why would God need a name?

The Bible explicitly tells us that God has one, which indicates he had to be distinguished from other celestial beings, just like humans use names to identify different people.

What that name might be is another matter. The Jewish prohibition on speaking God’s name means that its correct pronunciation has been lost. All we know is that the Hebrew Bible spells it out as four consonants known as the Tetragrammaton – from the Greek for “four letters,” which are transliterated as Y-H-W-H.

MGGA

14 days ago
12/5/17
Posts: 10601
EazyG -
oldnslow -

Sounds similar to the book "A History of God" by Karen Armstrong, though the book in the OP focuses specifically on the evolution of the Hebrew God while Armstrong's book is a broader and encompasses the Big Three, plus Buddhism and Hinduism.

Pretty crazy what a few thousand years can produce.

Some similarities but this is much more in depth than Armstrong's book.  And i am a big Armstrong fan.

Romer is a leading expert in his field and it shows

I had no idea you were interested... I was a comparative religion major for 3 years before switching majors. This place used to have fantastic discussion on religion. I had a thread on Christian art history, Catholic symbolism, the psychology of religion, etc. Back in my "foggybottom" days.

14 days ago
5/28/03
Posts: 71565

From the fall of Adam onward, there has been constant confusion.

We're besieged on all sides by things that pull us farther away from God.

14 days ago
3/28/02
Posts: 8156
Pumpkin Spice Lazarus -
EazyG -
oldnslow -

Sounds similar to the book "A History of God" by Karen Armstrong, though the book in the OP focuses specifically on the evolution of the Hebrew God while Armstrong's book is a broader and encompasses the Big Three, plus Buddhism and Hinduism.

Pretty crazy what a few thousand years can produce.

Some similarities but this is much more in depth than Armstrong's book.  And i am a big Armstrong fan.

Romer is a leading expert in his field and it shows

I had no idea you were interested... I was a comparative religion major for 3 years before switching majors. This place used to have fantastic discussion on religion. I had a thread on Christian art history, Catholic symbolism, the psychology of religion, etc. Back in my "foggybottom" days.

I love the study of the Hebrew Bible - I have probably read 20+ books on it over the last few years.  Such an interesting book and period.    

If folks are interested, I can list some of books/authors that I like.  Hope to learn some good new ones here too.

 

What did you wind up majoring in?

I studied Languages in college before winding up in an economics PhD program eventually.  Still have a love of ancient history.  Roman, Greek, Israel......

14 days ago
3/28/02
Posts: 8157
The Pendulum -
EazyG -

However, the redactors of the Bible were evidently working off older traditions, Römer says.

“Biblical texts are not direct historical sources. They reflect the ideas, the ideologies of their authors and of course of the historical context in which they were written,” Römer explains.

 

Still, he notes, “you can have memories of a distant past, sometimes in a very confusing way or in a very oriented way. But I think we can, and we must, use the biblical text not just as fictional texts but as texts that can tell us stories about the origins.”

What's in God's name

The first clue that the ancient Israelites worshipped gods other than the deity known as Yhwh lies in their very name. “Israel” is a theophoric name going back at least 3200 years, which includes and invokes the name of a protective deity.

Going by the name, the main god of the ancient Israelites was not Yhwh, but El, the chief deity in the Canaanite pantheon, who was worshipped throughout the Levant.

In other words, the name "Israel" is probably older than the veneration of Yhwh by this group called Israel, Römer says. “The first tutelary deity they were worshipping was El, otherwise their name would have been Israyahu.”

The gilded statue of El himself, from Megiddo, 1400-1200 BCE. Daderot, Wikimedia Commons

The Bible appears to address this early worship of El in Exodus 6:3, when God tells Moses that he “appeared to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob as El Shaddai (today translated as "God Almighty") but was not known to them by my name Yhwh.”

Big "hat"

 

Odd coincidence.

that is funny indeed

was El a proto Klan leader?