OtherGround Forums The US Military does NOT need Full Auto Weapons!

10/29/19 8:29 PM
3/17/14
Posts: 20093

https://www.wearethemighty.com/infantry-full-auto-weapons

The primary mission of a U.S. Marine infantry rifle squad is to locate, close with, and destroy the enemy by fire and maneuver or to repel the enemy's assault by fire and close combat. This mission statement is branded into each infantryman's brain and consistently put to practical use when the grunts are deployed to the front lines.

In the event a Marine infantry squad takes enemy contact, the squad leader will order the machine-gunners to relocate themselves to an area to return fire and win the battle for weapon superiority. The squad leader will also inform his fire team leaders of the situation and they'll deploy their two riflemen and SAW (Squad Automatic Weapon) gunner to a strategic area — getting them into the fight.

Once they have a fix on the enemies' position, they'll call the mortar platoon to "bring the rain."

At literally the flip of a switch, troops go from having a cold weapon system to knocking a fully automatic weapon, bringing death to the bad guys at the pull of a trigger.

This sounds super cool, right? Well, it kind of is when you've experienced the situation first hand. We understand that having a fully automatic machine gun gives troops a commanding advantage, but when you look at how ground pounders are trained to fire the weapon system, the rate of fire nearly mirrors that of an M4's after a few bursts.

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1. They can get trigger happy

 

For the most part, grunts love to take contact from the enemy when they are locked and loaded. When you've trained for months to take the fight to the enemy, nothing feels better than getting to fire your weapon at the bad guys. However, it's not uncommon for machine-gunners to squeeze their triggers and fire off more than the recommended four to six rounds.

We'd also like to add that the feeling of sending accurate rounds down range is fun as f*ck! Unfortunately, infantrymen often lose their bearing and keep the trigger compressed and end up wasting ammo.

 

2. Negligent discharges can be worse

 

Most times, a negligent discharge means you accidentally fired one round from your rifle or pistol. For a troop carrying a fully automatic weapon, the negligent discharge can be much more violent and dangerous. Instead of firing off one round accidentally, you can fire two or three.

We understand that the M16 has both semi-automatic (one round at a time) and burst (three shots at a time) firing capabilities. But it's more unlikely you'll ND on the burst setting than the semi-automatic one.

 

3. Barrel changes

 

Remember when we said troops can get trigger happy? Hopefully, you do, because we just mentioned it a few minutes ago. When grunts do get trigger happy, their weapons systems can overheat. To combat the overheating, troops must change out their barrel in order to stay in the fight.

Which takes precious firefight time that you won't get back.

 

4. It can lower accuracy

 

Machine guns are very, very powerful weapons. They can kill the enemy positioned beyond the maximum effective range of an M4 and M16. Sounds awesome, right? Well, it is.

Unfortunately, since they are very powerful, when the mobile operator fires the weapon, the recoil will bring the rifle's barrel up and off target. This mainly happens when the ground pounder gets trigger happy. In a firefight, mistakes need to be kept to a minimum or people can die.

 

 

10/29/19 8:30 PM
3/17/14
Posts: 20094

Sike!!!! What a load of BS fellas!

Operator Sam is back again to drop some knowledge 

 

10/29/19 8:37 PM
4/27/15
Posts: 13877

LOL.  Love Angry Cop

10/29/19 8:47 PM
6/3/03
Posts: 102961
BruteDion -

https://www.wearethemighty.com/infantry-full-auto-weapons

The primary mission of a U.S. Marine infantry rifle squad is to locate, close with, and destroy the enemy by fire and maneuver or to repel the enemy's assault by fire and close combat. This mission statement is branded into each infantryman's brain and consistently put to practical use when the grunts are deployed to the front lines.

In the event a Marine infantry squad takes enemy contact, the squad leader will order the machine-gunners to relocate themselves to an area to return fire and win the battle for weapon superiority. The squad leader will also inform his fire team leaders of the situation and they'll deploy their two riflemen and SAW (Squad Automatic Weapon) gunner to a strategic area — getting them into the fight.

Once they have a fix on the enemies' position, they'll call the mortar platoon to "bring the rain."

At literally the flip of a switch, troops go from having a cold weapon system to knocking a fully automatic weapon, bringing death to the bad guys at the pull of a trigger.

This sounds super cool, right? Well, it kind of is when you've experienced the situation first hand. We understand that having a fully automatic machine gun gives troops a commanding advantage, but when you look at how ground pounders are trained to fire the weapon system, the rate of fire nearly mirrors that of an M4's after a few bursts.

Report Advertisement

1. They can get trigger happy

 

For the most part, grunts love to take contact from the enemy when they are locked and loaded. When you've trained for months to take the fight to the enemy, nothing feels better than getting to fire your weapon at the bad guys. However, it's not uncommon for machine-gunners to squeeze their triggers and fire off more than the recommended four to six rounds.

We'd also like to add that the feeling of sending accurate rounds down range is fun as f*ck! Unfortunately, infantrymen often lose their bearing and keep the trigger compressed and end up wasting ammo.

 

2. Negligent discharges can be worse

 

Most times, a negligent discharge means you accidentally fired one round from your rifle or pistol. For a troop carrying a fully automatic weapon, the negligent discharge can be much more violent and dangerous. Instead of firing off one round accidentally, you can fire two or three.

We understand that the M16 has both semi-automatic (one round at a time) and burst (three shots at a time) firing capabilities. But it's more unlikely you'll ND on the burst setting than the semi-automatic one.

 

3. Barrel changes

 

Remember when we said troops can get trigger happy? Hopefully, you do, because we just mentioned it a few minutes ago. When grunts do get trigger happy, their weapons systems can overheat. To combat the overheating, troops must change out their barrel in order to stay in the fight.

Which takes precious firefight time that you won't get back.

 

4. It can lower accuracy

 

Machine guns are very, very powerful weapons. They can kill the enemy positioned beyond the maximum effective range of an M4 and M16. Sounds awesome, right? Well, it is.

Unfortunately, since they are very powerful, when the mobile operator fires the weapon, the recoil will bring the rifle's barrel up and off target. This mainly happens when the ground pounder gets trigger happy. In a firefight, mistakes need to be kept to a minimum or people can die.

 

 

10/29/19 9:17 PM
9/23/14
Posts: 486
There is "some" truth to this, but also some bullshit.

My credentials: former (Army) Infantry Rifleman and M249/SAW Gunner. The SAW was my primary weapon for 3+ years. 3-6 round bursts were the standard, and we did so much drilling, that such bursts were "automatic" - pardon the phrase. We were encouraged to engage targets that were visible whenever possible and to moderate our supressive fire in a co-ordinated fashion so as to maximize our capabilities.

ADs were VERY uncommon, and I never witnessed one, and I am only aware of one in any of my units, and it was from the guy who shot (then) LTC (Now retired General and former CIA head) David H Petraeus. That incident was from a soldier (one PFC Jones of Bravo Company, 3-187th Infantry) who tripped and fell on a live-fire range after clearing a bunker.

"one shot, one kill." was pounded into our brains from the very beginning of Infantry Basic, and that never changed for the duration of my enlistment.

Much is made of "Assault Rifles" and their abilities to inflict mass casualties, but from what I've seen, the shooters who do the most damage are the ones who pick their targets and shoot calmly, but with intent.

Soldiers may not "need" automatic weapons, and yes it is fun to just burn through a belt and GET SOME, but well-trained soldiers know what they're doing, even if they aren't thinking about it at the time.
10/29/19 9:25 PM
12/2/05
Posts: 84454
" but when you look at how ground pounders are trained to fire the weapon system, the rate of fire nearly mirrors that of an M4's after a few bursts."

He says this but then says the problem is they fire too much? Which is it? Too high of a fire rate or too low or what is the point of the M4 comment?
10/29/19 9:26 PM
9/23/14
Posts: 487
Also: trigger discipline was also a big friggin' deal, especially after our BN CDR got shot.

And, The're NO WAY you're gonna have an AD with a fully auto machine gun and go more than 6 rounds before you stop. I'd say 3, tops, and that would have to be one hell of a fluke.

10/29/19 9:28 PM
12/2/05
Posts: 84455
Anyhow, tell that to anyone who had to fight against MG42s.
10/29/19 9:29 PM
8/7/12
Posts: 11455

You could say the opposite as well and say that semi-automatic weapon fire is responsible for far moremoreths so why waste time?

10/29/19 9:35 PM
3/10/11
Posts: 3860

Thy entire article is stupid.

10/29/19 9:39 PM
9/13/19
Posts: 153
So, let me get this straight. This is some non-military motherfucker trying to tell the military what they need and don't need? Yea... no.... I'm going to leave it to the war dudes to figure out what they need to make war and not some peter-puffing half-wit loser...
10/29/19 9:54 PM
12/2/05
Posts: 84461
PwnedCakes - So, let me get this straight. This is some non-military motherfucker trying to tell the military what they need and don't need? Yea... no.... I'm going to leave it to the war dudes to figure out what they need to make war and not some peter-puffing half-wit loser...

Apparently the person who wrote that was in. JUst clickbait IMO. Worked--driving traffic and talk.
10/29/19 9:54 PM
12/2/05
Posts: 84462
Tim Kirkpatrick entered the Navy in 2007 as a Hospital Corpsman and deployed to Sangin, Afghanistan with 3rd Battalion 5th Marines in the fall of 2010. Tim now has degrees in both Film Production and Screenwriting. tim.kirkpatrick@wearethemighty.com
10/29/19 9:59 PM
9/22/09
Posts: 6927
badpvtdan -

Thy entire article is stupid.

I thought it was a knock off, not funny version of duffel blog

10/29/19 10:03 PM
12/30/18
Posts: 79

Automatic weapons are vitally important in order to suppress the enemy and/or gain fire superiority.  Further, they enable riflemen to maneuver on the enemy while they are being suppressed.  To say otherwise is asinine.  The M249 SAW is a weapon I was never been fond of but it has been phased out by the M27 IAR (Infantry Automatic Rifle) which allows for greater accuracy and reliability and also does not require barrel changes.  
 

My credentials, Marine Corps Infantry Officer for 20 years.  

10/29/19 11:02 PM
1/1/01
Posts: 50710

I never realized they'll change barrels mid battle. Makes sense now that I think about it, but I never thought of it before 

Edited: 10/30/19 9:23 AM
1/1/01
Posts: 103228

I don't think the military needs guns at all.  Guns  are an unnecessary evil

10/29/19 11:29 PM
5/30/10
Posts: 1257

Still couldnt beat a bunch of rice farmers in flipflops

10/29/19 11:35 PM
12/30/18
Posts: 80
Shugum -

Still couldnt beat a bunch of rice farmers in flipflops

The rice farmers had automatic weapons.  Arguably superior ones...

10/30/19 12:34 AM
12/2/05
Posts: 84471
Goliad1835 -

Automatic weapons are vitally important in order to suppress the enemy and/or gain fire superiority.  Further, they enable riflemen to maneuver on the enemy while they are being suppressed.  To say otherwise is asinine.  The M249 SAW is a weapon I was never been fond of but it has been phased out by the M27 IAR (Infantry Automatic Rifle) which allows for greater accuracy and reliability and also does not require barrel changes.  
 

My credentials, Marine Corps Infantry Officer for 20 years.  

Didn't know about the IAR. Sounds interesting. 30rd.mags... how much has changed from the mg42 dominance eh 

10/30/19 1:04 AM
10/31/13
Posts: 8591

 

10/30/19 1:06 AM
9/28/19
Posts: 305

Semi auto ftw

10/30/19 1:10 AM
6/5/16
Posts: 331
Goliad1835 -

Automatic weapons are vitally important in order to suppress the enemy and/or gain fire superiority.  Further, they enable riflemen to maneuver on the enemy while they are being suppressed.  To say otherwise is asinine.  The M249 SAW is a weapon I was never been fond of but it has been phased out by the M27 IAR (Infantry Automatic Rifle) which allows for greater accuracy and reliability and also does not require barrel changes.  
 

My credentials, Marine Corps Infantry Officer for 20 years.  

Are there any plans to get some sort of drum for rounds? I get that the 27 is more reliable but holding 30 over 200 is quite the compromise.

10/30/19 1:11 AM
12/2/05
Posts: 84476
MAXIMUSCREPITUS -
Goliad1835 -

Automatic weapons are vitally important in order to suppress the enemy and/or gain fire superiority.  Further, they enable riflemen to maneuver on the enemy while they are being suppressed.  To say otherwise is asinine.  The M249 SAW is a weapon I was never been fond of but it has been phased out by the M27 IAR (Infantry Automatic Rifle) which allows for greater accuracy and reliability and also does not require barrel changes.  
 

My credentials, Marine Corps Infantry Officer for 20 years.  

Are there any plans to get some sort of drum for rounds? I get that the 27 is more reliable but holding 30 over 200 is quite the compromise.

I was reading they wanted 100rd boxes or drums but they weren't reliable. Maybe later. 

10/30/19 1:20 AM
2/25/09
Posts: 6231

I remember watching a grunt squad doc once. The heavy gunner said his job was to keep heads down and hopefully take some heads out. I took from that his role was to provide cover fire while his squad manouvers. Could be just the way they utilize it. 

My credentials: COD prestige lv 2