OtherGround Forums Trump Announces "1776" Commission For Patriotism!

9/19/20 8:29 PM
2/25/09
Posts: 10350
EFM -

executive order.  so biden will just overturn it in january.

Biden wont be doing shit except trying to figure out how to not crap his pants. 

9/19/20 8:30 PM
9/13/08
Posts: 1386
salsero - And with respect to the 1776 commission: If it’s just a means to teach nationalism, then I think it’s fascist trash. History should be history to the extent we can teach it while minimizing biases and situating historical facts in their social contexts.

The USA has done some great things, and its been part of some repugnant shit that one might rationalize as needed to meet a greater good. There’s also been things that are wrong that cannot be justified as being “right” today.

That why some of the historical teaching tendencies in some parts of the USA today (e.g. teaching the whole of history, correcting mistruths such as Columbus discovered America, properly contextualizing the Confederacy as treachery, etc.) are efforts to teach the whole of history, not destroy it. They confront the biases that prevent full engagement with historical context. They are not anti-American. They contribute to a pro truth dialogue.

Some on the right think they want patriotic history, but they really should be clear on what that means. It’s not teaching the whole of history; it’s teaching only one point of view. So called Patriotic history will be a hyper nationalistic indoctrination about history, not an education on history. It’s yet another step towards totalitarianism that is made possible by the fact that we are a nation of idiots as a whole, with some of those idiots being educated, and some not.

You eat hairy man ass and identify as a cantolope.

Edited: 9/19/20 8:40 PM
3/22/20
Posts: 158
A public education should contribute to the production of good citizens. This means teaching the young to love their country, among other things. This will clearly affect how one teaches history.

The truth is not the only goal of public education. Thinking it should be seems really naive to me.
9/19/20 8:36 PM
3/2/09
Posts: 1130

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Re-education_camp_(Vietnam)

 

9/19/20 8:44 PM
4/24/07
Posts: 43970
salsero - If Trump wants to create an executive order addressing education, he should focus on the longstanding problem with math and science (and how we rank internationally) – not wasting federal resources on the teaching nationalistic historical tropes.

Yes, the USA is within the top ten of major countries in terms of education completion. We have more high school and college graduates than ever before.

However, even a superficial review of available data shows that USA K-12 education - as a whole - ranks near the bottom of most major industrialized countries in terms of content knowledge (especially math and science). It's been that way for a very long time. We are a nation of educated idiots.

And when you look at how USA K-12 education ranks by state, you’ll find that the lower a state falls in the ranking, the more likely that state is a so-called “red state.”

The irony is that a number of studies show that high school and incoming freshman across the board are actually very confident of their academic abilities in a way which is disproportionate to the USA’s international rankings. On one hand, the average American student is one of the most confident students in the world in terms of what they think they know as well as about what he or she might believe about themselves and others. But on the other hand, the average American student has a degree of academic underperformance (and even ignorance) with respect to empirical, real-world knowledge which shouldn't be the case in the so-called "greatest country on earth."

Trump could fix this if he focused on it. But his efforts to fix it are merely appeals to his right wing, “Merica-lovin” base, not actually address the what’s really wrong with our education system.


He actually did help to fix education by getting rid of critical race theory. A MAJOR problem in our education system is racism and sexism. Not the type of racism you hear about normally, but low expectation racism. "Oh young black American's aren't doing well on standardized testing so we need to get rid of them." "Women aren't joining STEM at the rate men are so we need to change STEM to get more women in there.

That's what is harming our educational system and you will see that exact thing looking back to the early 2000's when the first wave of teachers we're lied to about communism in our colleges and it started to spread. From there identity politics, low expectation racism, communism, and anti democracy was pushed heavily by the teaching body. Shockingly that was right around the time our kids started to fall down in testing scores.

Another issue is we needlessly bother kids with stupid education requirements that accomplishes nothing and doesn't help them in any way lead a productive life. It doesn't help them in college or before. We need to single out these exotic classes of uselessness and end them.

Lastly we need school choice. We need to stop allowing the left to deny young black Americans the same opportunities we offer white kids. It's disgusting that year after year the same bullshit policies of "Durrrrrrrr our failing inner city schools need more money". This shit has been going on for 60+ years in some area's like Detroit. The same "Durrr no on school choice but give us more money that will go to the board of education's pockets and not into schools getting more books. They don't want children of the inner cities to disrupt their poor white kids yet pretend they're woke when it comes to social justice. I'm tired of hearing it. If we want to help all Americans in education, they all need to have the same great education. No longer can we allow democrats to deny these kids the education they rightfully deserve.
9/19/20 9:00 PM
11/1/06
Posts: 3640

So is Trump’s next step “re-education” camps for people of different political views. This whole thing is absurd. 

9/19/20 9:11 PM
1/21/17
Posts: 221
David@accu - 
salsero - If Trump wants to create an executive order addressing education, he should focus on the longstanding problem with math and science (and how we rank internationally) – not wasting federal resources on the teaching nationalistic historical tropes.

Yes, the USA is within the top ten of major countries in terms of education completion. We have more high school and college graduates than ever before.

However, even a superficial review of available data shows that USA K-12 education - as a whole - ranks near the bottom of most major industrialized countries in terms of content knowledge (especially math and science). It's been that way for a very long time. We are a nation of educated idiots.

And when you look at how USA K-12 education ranks by state, you’ll find that the lower a state falls in the ranking, the more likely that state is a so-called “red state.”

The irony is that a number of studies show that high school and incoming freshman across the board are actually very confident of their academic abilities in a way which is disproportionate to the USA’s international rankings. On one hand, the average American student is one of the most confident students in the world in terms of what they think they know as well as about what he or she might believe about themselves and others. But on the other hand, the average American student has a degree of academic underperformance (and even ignorance) with respect to empirical, real-world knowledge which shouldn't be the case in the so-called "greatest country on earth."

Trump could fix this if he focused on it. But his efforts to fix it are merely appeals to his right wing, “Merica-lovin” base, not actually address the what’s really wrong with our education system.


He actually did help to fix education by getting rid of critical race theory. A MAJOR problem in our education system is racism and sexism. Not the type of racism you hear about normally, but low expectation racism. "Oh young black American's aren't doing well on standardized testing so we need to get rid of them." "Women aren't joining STEM at the rate men are so we need to change STEM to get more women in there.

That's what is harming our educational system and you will see that exact thing looking back to the early 2000's when the first wave of teachers we're lied to about communism in our colleges and it started to spread. From there identity politics, low expectation racism, communism, and anti democracy was pushed heavily by the teaching body. Shockingly that was right around the time our kids started to fall down in testing scores.

Another issue is we needlessly bother kids with stupid education requirements that accomplishes nothing and doesn't help them in any way lead a productive life. It doesn't help them in college or before. We need to single out these exotic classes of uselessness and end them.

Lastly we need school choice. We need to stop allowing the left to deny young black Americans the same opportunities we offer white kids. It's disgusting that year after year the same bullshit policies of "Durrrrrrrr our failing inner city schools need more money". This shit has been going on for 60+ years in some area's like Detroit. The same "Durrr no on school choice but give us more money that will go to the board of education's pockets and not into schools getting more books. They don't want children of the inner cities to disrupt their poor white kids yet pretend they're woke when it comes to social justice. I'm tired of hearing it. If we want to help all Americans in education, they all need to have the same great education. No longer can we allow democrats to deny these kids the education they rightfully deserve.

^spot on, the bigotry of low expectations tied to critical race theory is really what's hurting women and minorities in STEM because the teaching profession has become ruled by it.

Math and science require rigorous study... lessons filled with song and dance and a lowered grading curve in the name of "equity" just results in an education disparity when whites and asians go to schools where teachers teach to normal standards.

Everyone can acknowledge and try to provide extra support to children that are economically disadvantaged, but the bar shouldn't be lowered just to prop up appearances of equality.
9/19/20 9:12 PM
1/1/01
Posts: 1407
czwthemerph - 
salsero - And with respect to the 1776 commission: If it’s just a means to teach nationalism, then I think it’s fascist trash. History should be history to the extent we can teach it while minimizing biases and situating historical facts in their social contexts.

The USA has done some great things, and its been part of some repugnant shit that one might rationalize as needed to meet a greater good. There’s also been things that are wrong that cannot be justified as being “right” today.

That why some of the historical teaching tendencies in some parts of the USA today (e.g. teaching the whole of history, correcting mistruths such as Columbus discovered America, properly contextualizing the Confederacy as treachery, etc.) are efforts to teach the whole of history, not destroy it. They confront the biases that prevent full engagement with historical context. They are not anti-American. They contribute to a pro truth dialogue.

Some on the right think they want patriotic history, but they really should be clear on what that means. It’s not teaching the whole of history; it’s teaching only one point of view. So called Patriotic history will be a hyper nationalistic indoctrination about history, not an education on history. It’s yet another step towards totalitarianism that is made possible by the fact that we are a nation of idiots as a whole, with some of those idiots being educated, and some not.

You eat hairy man ass and identify as a cantolope.


Don't be foolish. Say something constructive or move on.
9/19/20 9:23 PM
3/18/02
Posts: 95860
Cire - 

 


legit lol 

9/19/20 9:29 PM
9/13/08
Posts: 1387
salsero -
czwthemerph - 
salsero - And with respect to the 1776 commission: If it’s just a means to teach nationalism, then I think it’s fascist trash. History should be history to the extent we can teach it while minimizing biases and situating historical facts in their social contexts.

The USA has done some great things, and its been part of some repugnant shit that one might rationalize as needed to meet a greater good. There’s also been things that are wrong that cannot be justified as being “right” today.

That why some of the historical teaching tendencies in some parts of the USA today (e.g. teaching the whole of history, correcting mistruths such as Columbus discovered America, properly contextualizing the Confederacy as treachery, etc.) are efforts to teach the whole of history, not destroy it. They confront the biases that prevent full engagement with historical context. They are not anti-American. They contribute to a pro truth dialogue.

Some on the right think they want patriotic history, but they really should be clear on what that means. It’s not teaching the whole of history; it’s teaching only one point of view. So called Patriotic history will be a hyper nationalistic indoctrination about history, not an education on history. It’s yet another step towards totalitarianism that is made possible by the fact that we are a nation of idiots as a whole, with some of those idiots being educated, and some not.

You eat hairy man ass and identify as a cantolope.


Don't be foolish. Say something constructive or move on.

Nah u gay

9/19/20 9:33 PM
1/1/01
Posts: 1408
David@accu - 
salsero - If Trump wants to create an executive order addressing education, he should focus on the longstanding problem with math and science (and how we rank internationally) – not wasting federal resources on the teaching nationalistic historical tropes.

Yes, the USA is within the top ten of major countries in terms of education completion. We have more high school and college graduates than ever before.

However, even a superficial review of available data shows that USA K-12 education - as a whole - ranks near the bottom of most major industrialized countries in terms of content knowledge (especially math and science). It's been that way for a very long time. We are a nation of educated idiots.

And when you look at how USA K-12 education ranks by state, you’ll find that the lower a state falls in the ranking, the more likely that state is a so-called “red state.”

The irony is that a number of studies show that high school and incoming freshman across the board are actually very confident of their academic abilities in a way which is disproportionate to the USA’s international rankings. On one hand, the average American student is one of the most confident students in the world in terms of what they think they know as well as about what he or she might believe about themselves and others. But on the other hand, the average American student has a degree of academic underperformance (and even ignorance) with respect to empirical, real-world knowledge which shouldn't be the case in the so-called "greatest country on earth."

Trump could fix this if he focused on it. But his efforts to fix it are merely appeals to his right wing, “Merica-lovin” base, not actually address the what’s really wrong with our education system.


He actually did help to fix education by getting rid of critical race theory. A MAJOR problem in our education system is racism and sexism. Not the type of racism you hear about normally, but low expectation racism. "Oh young black American's aren't doing well on standardized testing so we need to get rid of them." "Women aren't joining STEM at the rate men are so we need to change STEM to get more women in there.

That's what is harming our educational system and you will see that exact thing looking back to the early 2000's when the first wave of teachers we're lied to about communism in our colleges and it started to spread. From there identity politics, low expectation racism, communism, and anti democracy was pushed heavily by the teaching body. Shockingly that was right around the time our kids started to fall down in testing scores.

Another issue is we needlessly bother kids with stupid education requirements that accomplishes nothing and doesn't help them in any way lead a productive life. It doesn't help them in college or before. We need to single out these exotic classes of uselessness and end them.

Lastly we need school choice. We need to stop allowing the left to deny young black Americans the same opportunities we offer white kids. It's disgusting that year after year the same bullshit policies of "Durrrrrrrr our failing inner city schools need more money". This shit has been going on for 60+ years in some area's like Detroit. The same "Durrr no on school choice but give us more money that will go to the board of education's pockets and not into schools getting more books. They don't want children of the inner cities to disrupt their poor white kids yet pretend they're woke when it comes to social justice. I'm tired of hearing it. If we want to help all Americans in education, they all need to have the same great education. No longer can we allow democrats to deny these kids the education they rightfully deserve.

In spite of the foregoing – the elephant in the room is that while the USA poorly performs compares to international counterparts, some states perform better than others. Generally speaking, the poorer performing states are not in regions where “critical race theory” is rampant.

The problem with US education proceeds critical race theory or any STEM access reform initiatives. These are not the reasons why the USA is behind. The application of critical race theory or STEM access reforms (which work, BTW) to education, in many ways, is a response to trying to address the real problem: There is something about the American approach to education which generally leads to a more educated, less informed student compared to other industrialized countries.

Define "exotic classes." I think you’re making a reach here and are exaggerating. I've worked in inner city schools, and my wife does. If anything, there's a focus on the core stuff in most “average” schools because they are trying to get kids to perform better at core subjects. In fact, there's a conspicuous lack of art, music, etc. in many schools. Most of the “exotic stuff” is going to be found in schools and districts where students are more likely to be better performers.

The idea of school choice sounds nice. I would have to engage with you further to determine what you mean. For example, some people (my included) consider properly-run charter schools as an example of school choice. Others don't.
9/19/20 9:35 PM
1/1/01
Posts: 1409
czwthemerph - 
salsero -
czwthemerph - 
salsero - And with respect to the 1776 commission: If it’s just a means to teach nationalism, then I think it’s fascist trash. History should be history to the extent we can teach it while minimizing biases and situating historical facts in their social contexts.

The USA has done some great things, and its been part of some repugnant shit that one might rationalize as needed to meet a greater good. There’s also been things that are wrong that cannot be justified as being “right” today.

That why some of the historical teaching tendencies in some parts of the USA today (e.g. teaching the whole of history, correcting mistruths such as Columbus discovered America, properly contextualizing the Confederacy as treachery, etc.) are efforts to teach the whole of history, not destroy it. They confront the biases that prevent full engagement with historical context. They are not anti-American. They contribute to a pro truth dialogue.

Some on the right think they want patriotic history, but they really should be clear on what that means. It’s not teaching the whole of history; it’s teaching only one point of view. So called Patriotic history will be a hyper nationalistic indoctrination about history, not an education on history. It’s yet another step towards totalitarianism that is made possible by the fact that we are a nation of idiots as a whole, with some of those idiots being educated, and some not.

You eat hairy man ass and identify as a cantolope.


Don't be foolish. Say something constructive or move on.

Nah u gay


What do you think about the fact that the American students lag behind internationally?
9/19/20 9:40 PM
4/13/12
Posts: 37668
Slap Johnson -
EFM -

executive order.  so biden will just overturn it in january.

Biden wont be doing shit except trying to figure out how to not crap his pants. 

I guess we'll see.

9/19/20 9:41 PM
1/1/01
Posts: 1410
Thalakos - 
David@accu - 
salsero - If Trump wants to create an executive order addressing education, he should focus on the longstanding problem with math and science (and how we rank internationally) – not wasting federal resources on the teaching nationalistic historical tropes.

Yes, the USA is within the top ten of major countries in terms of education completion. We have more high school and college graduates than ever before.

However, even a superficial review of available data shows that USA K-12 education - as a whole - ranks near the bottom of most major industrialized countries in terms of content knowledge (especially math and science). It's been that way for a very long time. We are a nation of educated idiots.

And when you look at how USA K-12 education ranks by state, you’ll find that the lower a state falls in the ranking, the more likely that state is a so-called “red state.”

The irony is that a number of studies show that high school and incoming freshman across the board are actually very confident of their academic abilities in a way which is disproportionate to the USA’s international rankings. On one hand, the average American student is one of the most confident students in the world in terms of what they think they know as well as about what he or she might believe about themselves and others. But on the other hand, the average American student has a degree of academic underperformance (and even ignorance) with respect to empirical, real-world knowledge which shouldn't be the case in the so-called "greatest country on earth."

Trump could fix this if he focused on it. But his efforts to fix it are merely appeals to his right wing, “Merica-lovin” base, not actually address the what’s really wrong with our education system.


He actually did help to fix education by getting rid of critical race theory. A MAJOR problem in our education system is racism and sexism. Not the type of racism you hear about normally, but low expectation racism. "Oh young black American's aren't doing well on standardized testing so we need to get rid of them." "Women aren't joining STEM at the rate men are so we need to change STEM to get more women in there.

That's what is harming our educational system and you will see that exact thing looking back to the early 2000's when the first wave of teachers we're lied to about communism in our colleges and it started to spread. From there identity politics, low expectation racism, communism, and anti democracy was pushed heavily by the teaching body. Shockingly that was right around the time our kids started to fall down in testing scores.

Another issue is we needlessly bother kids with stupid education requirements that accomplishes nothing and doesn't help them in any way lead a productive life. It doesn't help them in college or before. We need to single out these exotic classes of uselessness and end them.

Lastly we need school choice. We need to stop allowing the left to deny young black Americans the same opportunities we offer white kids. It's disgusting that year after year the same bullshit policies of "Durrrrrrrr our failing inner city schools need more money". This shit has been going on for 60+ years in some area's like Detroit. The same "Durrr no on school choice but give us more money that will go to the board of education's pockets and not into schools getting more books. They don't want children of the inner cities to disrupt their poor white kids yet pretend they're woke when it comes to social justice. I'm tired of hearing it. If we want to help all Americans in education, they all need to have the same great education. No longer can we allow democrats to deny these kids the education they rightfully deserve.

^spot on, the bigotry of low expectations tied to critical race theory is really what's hurting women and minorities in STEM because the teaching profession has become ruled by it.

Math and science require rigorous study... lessons filled with song and dance and a lowered grading curve in the name of "equity" just results in an education disparity when whites and asians go to schools where teachers teach to normal standards.

Everyone can acknowledge and try to provide extra support to children that are economically disadvantaged, but the bar shouldn't be lowered just to prop up appearances of equality.

The underlying issue with respect to this thread is that the Trump can do better things for education by Executive Order than focus on Patriot education. We have a major problem. Our kids are highly confident, yet highly ignorant compared to international counterparts. This has nothing to do with critical race theory. I don't think you can prove it beyond asserting it.

Please show me examples of late elementary - high school students whose math and science lessons are filled with "song and dance."
9/19/20 9:49 PM
1/1/01
Posts: 1411
Hippias12345 - A public education should contribute to the production of good citizens. This means teaching the young to love their country, among other things. This will clearly affect how one teaches history.

The truth is not the only goal of public education. Thinking it should be seems really naive to me.

A public education should be the production of good people, not good citizens. A good person will have the courage to make the right decision even if their government is telling them to make the wrong one. Sometimes there's a time and place for such a choice.

And of course the truth isn't the only goal of public education. But that doesn't mean teach lies. There's an element of socialization that can't be ignored. But that socialization will occur no matter what is taught. And in that sense, education should be about teaching truth, not skewing facts to make one's interest look better.

If you have a truly open society and teach lies, the youth who are taught lies will learn about such lies and push back against them. In a sense, that is one of the driving forces you see today in movements like BLM. There's a faction of people who are involved because they are tired of being taught lies such as "Columbus discovered America."

Edited: 9/19/20 9:57 PM
9/13/08
Posts: 1388
salsero -
czwthemerph - 
salsero -
czwthemerph - 
salsero - And with respect to the 1776 commission: If it’s just a means to teach nationalism, then I think it’s fascist trash. History should be history to the extent we can teach it while minimizing biases and situating historical facts in their social contexts.

The USA has done some great things, and its been part of some repugnant shit that one might rationalize as needed to meet a greater good. There’s also been things that are wrong that cannot be justified as being “right” today.

That why some of the historical teaching tendencies in some parts of the USA today (e.g. teaching the whole of history, correcting mistruths such as Columbus discovered America, properly contextualizing the Confederacy as treachery, etc.) are efforts to teach the whole of history, not destroy it. They confront the biases that prevent full engagement with historical context. They are not anti-American. They contribute to a pro truth dialogue.

Some on the right think they want patriotic history, but they really should be clear on what that means. It’s not teaching the whole of history; it’s teaching only one point of view. So called Patriotic history will be a hyper nationalistic indoctrination about history, not an education on history. It’s yet another step towards totalitarianism that is made possible by the fact that we are a nation of idiots as a whole, with some of those idiots being educated, and some not.
 

You eat hairy man ass and identify as a cantolope.


Don't be foolish. Say something constructive or move on.

Nah u gay


What do you think about the fact that the American students lag behind internationally?

Most of those kids probably aren’t white, asian, or latino and u gay

9/19/20 11:47 PM
1/21/17
Posts: 222
salsero - 
Thalakos - 
David@accu - 
salsero - If Trump wants to create an executive order addressing education, he should focus on the longstanding problem with math and science (and how we rank internationally) – not wasting federal resources on the teaching nationalistic historical tropes.

Yes, the USA is within the top ten of major countries in terms of education completion. We have more high school and college graduates than ever before.

However, even a superficial review of available data shows that USA K-12 education - as a whole - ranks near the bottom of most major industrialized countries in terms of content knowledge (especially math and science). It's been that way for a very long time. We are a nation of educated idiots.

And when you look at how USA K-12 education ranks by state, you’ll find that the lower a state falls in the ranking, the more likely that state is a so-called “red state.”

The irony is that a number of studies show that high school and incoming freshman across the board are actually very confident of their academic abilities in a way which is disproportionate to the USA’s international rankings. On one hand, the average American student is one of the most confident students in the world in terms of what they think they know as well as about what he or she might believe about themselves and others. But on the other hand, the average American student has a degree of academic underperformance (and even ignorance) with respect to empirical, real-world knowledge which shouldn't be the case in the so-called "greatest country on earth."

Trump could fix this if he focused on it. But his efforts to fix it are merely appeals to his right wing, “Merica-lovin” base, not actually address the what’s really wrong with our education system.


He actually did help to fix education by getting rid of critical race theory. A MAJOR problem in our education system is racism and sexism. Not the type of racism you hear about normally, but low expectation racism. "Oh young black American's aren't doing well on standardized testing so we need to get rid of them." "Women aren't joining STEM at the rate men are so we need to change STEM to get more women in there.

That's what is harming our educational system and you will see that exact thing looking back to the early 2000's when the first wave of teachers we're lied to about communism in our colleges and it started to spread. From there identity politics, low expectation racism, communism, and anti democracy was pushed heavily by the teaching body. Shockingly that was right around the time our kids started to fall down in testing scores.

Another issue is we needlessly bother kids with stupid education requirements that accomplishes nothing and doesn't help them in any way lead a productive life. It doesn't help them in college or before. We need to single out these exotic classes of uselessness and end them.

Lastly we need school choice. We need to stop allowing the left to deny young black Americans the same opportunities we offer white kids. It's disgusting that year after year the same bullshit policies of "Durrrrrrrr our failing inner city schools need more money". This shit has been going on for 60+ years in some area's like Detroit. The same "Durrr no on school choice but give us more money that will go to the board of education's pockets and not into schools getting more books. They don't want children of the inner cities to disrupt their poor white kids yet pretend they're woke when it comes to social justice. I'm tired of hearing it. If we want to help all Americans in education, they all need to have the same great education. No longer can we allow democrats to deny these kids the education they rightfully deserve.

^spot on, the bigotry of low expectations tied to critical race theory is really what's hurting women and minorities in STEM because the teaching profession has become ruled by it.

Math and science require rigorous study... lessons filled with song and dance and a lowered grading curve in the name of "equity" just results in an education disparity when whites and asians go to schools where teachers teach to normal standards.

Everyone can acknowledge and try to provide extra support to children that are economically disadvantaged, but the bar shouldn't be lowered just to prop up appearances of equality.

The underlying issue with respect to this thread is that the Trump can do better things for education by Executive Order than focus on Patriot education. We have a major problem. Our kids are highly confident, yet highly ignorant compared to international counterparts. This has nothing to do with critical race theory. I don't think you can prove it beyond asserting it.

Please show me examples of late elementary - high school students whose math and science lessons are filled with "song and dance."

You're naive if you don't believe the teaching profession and the policy makers of the Common Core / teaching pedagogy standards haven't been aligning towards "culturally responsive" and "multicultural" education applied to math and science.
https://eric.ed.gov/?id=ED523600

You're a teacher.. guessing you're not ....or hoping at least you aren't actually a STEM teacher? If so, then you're the reason our standards don't compete at an international level.

You keep going on about other countries outperforming the US but the reason the US is behind STEM is pretty obvious. The Asians have highly educated teachers and ruthless discipline practices. The scandinavian countries on the other hand are smaller and can provide massive higher quality education with more homogenous populations. CRT is only making things worse.

Either way it doesn't even matter. In STEM education there is no room for "multi-culturalism" nonsense -- critical race theory which is the "unpatriotic" / communist ideology had infected K-12 STEM and is taking over our higher ed STEM departments.

If Trump is just calling for revisionist pro-America history then fine -- I agree with you that's stupid. But the biggest thing he can do for STEM is stamp out the idiocy of CRT.

TLDR - don't give out As for effort in STEM and try to combine song and dance with math and science like they're doing now in the name of multiculturalism, pseudo "studies", and equity.

https://www.kqed.org/mindshift/52813/how-teachers-are-changing-grading-practices-with-an-eye-on-equity
9/19/20 11:56 PM
1/1/01
Posts: 66481
Nitecrawler -
camicom -

AMAZING! So much for Critcal Race Theory and the ridiculously racist 1619 project....

MAGA!

MAGA!

https://nypost.com/2020/09/17/trump-issues-1776-commission-to-promote-patriotic-education/

Trump reveals 1776 Commission, aimed at promoting ‘patriotic education’

President Trump on Thursday announced a federal “1776 Commission” to promote “patriotic education” and accused Democratic presidential candidate Joe Biden and the New York Times of warping history.

Trump said Democrats and the Times’ “1619 Project” promote an inaccurate version of US history by over-emphasizing race and the legacy of slavery.

“I will soon sign an executive order establishing a national commission to promote patriotic education. It will be called the ‘1776 Commission’,” Trump said in 17-minute speech at the National Archives marking the anniversary of the Constitution’s signing.

 

Perfect

9/20/20 12:10 AM
8/15/07
Posts: 20358
salsero - 
Hippias12345 - A public education should contribute to the production of good citizens. This means teaching the young to love their country, among other things. This will clearly affect how one teaches history.

The truth is not the only goal of public education. Thinking it should be seems really naive to me.

A public education should be the production of good people, not good citizens. A good person will have the courage to make the right decision even if their government is telling them to make the wrong one. Sometimes there's a time and place for such a choice.

And of course the truth isn't the only goal of public education. But that doesn't mean teach lies. There's an element of socialization that can't be ignored. But that socialization will occur no matter what is taught. And in that sense, education should be about teaching truth, not skewing facts to make one's interest look better.

If you have a truly open society and teach lies, the youth who are taught lies will learn about such lies and push back against them. In a sense, that is one of the driving forces you see today in movements like BLM. There's a faction of people who are involved because they are tired of being taught lies such as "Columbus discovered America."


As far as American culture is concerned, Columbus did discover America. The practical difference between Columbus and some explorer making landfall a hundred years earlier, or worse, the ludicrous idea that North America could not have been discovered because people were already living here, is purely academic.
Edited: 9/20/20 1:21 AM
3/22/20
Posts: 159
x
9/20/20 1:23 AM
3/22/20
Posts: 160
salsero - 
Hippias12345 - A public education should contribute to the production of good citizens. This means teaching the young to love their country, among other things. This will clearly affect how one teaches history.

The truth is not the only goal of public education. Thinking it should be seems really naive to me.

A public education should be the production of good people, not good citizens. A good person will have the courage to make the right decision even if their government is telling them to make the wrong one. Sometimes there's a time and place for such a choice.

And of course the truth isn't the only goal of public education. But that doesn't mean teach lies. There's an element of socialization that can't be ignored. But that socialization will occur no matter what is taught. And in that sense, education should be about teaching truth, not skewing facts to make one's interest look better.

If you have a truly open society and teach lies, the youth who are taught lies will learn about such lies and push back against them. In a sense, that is one of the driving forces you see today in movements like BLM. There's a faction of people who are involved because they are tired of being taught lies such as "Columbus discovered America."


Yeah, that all seems naive to me. There is a tension between producing good citizens and good people. Some concessions must be made to the needs of producing good citizens. Every government will make a different number of concessions, but no government can ignore the need to produce good citizens altogether and the concessions that requires.
9/20/20 8:43 AM
1/1/01
Posts: 1413
Hippias12345 - 
salsero - 
Hippias12345 - A public education should contribute to the production of good citizens. This means teaching the young to love their country, among other things. This will clearly affect how one teaches history.

The truth is not the only goal of public education. Thinking it should be seems really naive to me.

A public education should be the production of good people, not good citizens. A good person will have the courage to make the right decision even if their government is telling them to make the wrong one. Sometimes there's a time and place for such a choice.

And of course the truth isn't the only goal of public education. But that doesn't mean teach lies. There's an element of socialization that can't be ignored. But that socialization will occur no matter what is taught. And in that sense, education should be about teaching truth, not skewing facts to make one's interest look better.

If you have a truly open society and teach lies, the youth who are taught lies will learn about such lies and push back against them. In a sense, that is one of the driving forces you see today in movements like BLM. There's a faction of people who are involved because they are tired of being taught lies such as "Columbus discovered America."


Yeah, that all seems naive to me. There is a tension between producing good citizens and good people. Some concessions must be made to the needs of producing good citizens. Every government will make a different number of concessions, but no government can ignore the need to produce good citizens altogether and the concessions that requires.

It is simple-minded to think that education can't produce both good citizens and good people who are educated in truth. They are not mutually exclusive.
9/20/20 8:46 AM
11/20/13
Posts: 11054

"Patriot eduction"

 

Oh My fucking God. How fucking stupid.

9/20/20 9:23 AM
1/1/01
Posts: 1414
Soul Gravy -
salsero - 
Hippias12345 - A public education should contribute to the production of good citizens. This means teaching the young to love their country, among other things. This will clearly affect how one teaches history.

The truth is not the only goal of public education. Thinking it should be seems really naive to me.

A public education should be the production of good people, not good citizens. A good person will have the courage to make the right decision even if their government is telling them to make the wrong one. Sometimes there's a time and place for such a choice.

And of course the truth isn't the only goal of public education. But that doesn't mean teach lies. There's an element of socialization that can't be ignored. But that socialization will occur no matter what is taught. And in that sense, education should be about teaching truth, not skewing facts to make one's interest look better.

If you have a truly open society and teach lies, the youth who are taught lies will learn about such lies and push back against them. In a sense, that is one of the driving forces you see today in movements like BLM. There's a faction of people who are involved because they are tired of being taught lies such as "Columbus discovered America."


As far as American culture is concerned, Columbus did discover America. The practical difference between Columbus and some explorer making landfall a hundred years earlier, or worse, the ludicrous idea that North America could not have been discovered because people were already living here, is purely academic.

This is one of the many problems with certain segments of American culture which are rather anti-intellectual.  It's not a purely academic discussion to teach that the Americas have been occupied for thousands of years prior to Columbus, Chinese and Nordic explorers reach North America proper well before the Spanish/French/English/Dutch, or that (gasp) Columbus never actually set foot on North America. It's a factual discussion.

9/20/20 10:06 AM
3/22/20
Posts: 161
salsero - 
Hippias12345 - 
salsero - 
Hippias12345 - A public education should contribute to the production of good citizens. This means teaching the young to love their country, among other things. This will clearly affect how one teaches history.

The truth is not the only goal of public education. Thinking it should be seems really naive to me.

A public education should be the production of good people, not good citizens. A good person will have the courage to make the right decision even if their government is telling them to make the wrong one. Sometimes there's a time and place for such a choice.

And of course the truth isn't the only goal of public education. But that doesn't mean teach lies. There's an element of socialization that can't be ignored. But that socialization will occur no matter what is taught. And in that sense, education should be about teaching truth, not skewing facts to make one's interest look better.

If you have a truly open society and teach lies, the youth who are taught lies will learn about such lies and push back against them. In a sense, that is one of the driving forces you see today in movements like BLM. There's a faction of people who are involved because they are tired of being taught lies such as "Columbus discovered America."


Yeah, that all seems naive to me. There is a tension between producing good citizens and good people. Some concessions must be made to the needs of producing good citizens. Every government will make a different number of concessions, but no government can ignore the need to produce good citizens altogether and the concessions that requires.

It is simple-minded to think that education can't produce both good citizens and good people who are educated in truth. They are not mutually exclusive.

What are the characteristics of a good citizen? What are the characteristics of a good person? Answer those questions, and you'll see that a good citizen and a good person are in tension in important ways. Assuming a simple harmony here is simple-minded.