OtherGround Forums Trump Has Not Charged 1 Company 4 Hiring Illegals

9 days ago
5/10/08
Posts: 46790
Teamprimal1 - 
Sogsteel -

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nytimes.com/2019/05/31/us/illegal-immigration-employers-prosecutions.amp.html

At least 11 companies have been prosecuted in the past year. Thread title is not correct

This.  These ass clowns claim shit they have no idea about.  Guys ppl will find out how stupid you are soon enough, no need to open your mouth and rush it.


I think you are proving that with this post.

9 days ago
7/13/17
Posts: 4031

Op spreading fake news 

https://www.dallasnews.com/news/immigration/2018/08/28/immigration-officials-descend-north-texas-company-allegedly-hired-undocumented-immigrants

 

9 days ago
4/1/10
Posts: 2037
lionsoul -
Teamprimal1 - 
Sogsteel -

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nytimes.com/2019/05/31/us/illegal-immigration-employers-prosecutions.amp.html

At least 11 companies have been prosecuted in the past year. Thread title is not correct

This.  These ass clowns claim shit they have no idea about.  Guys ppl will find out how stupid you are soon enough, no need to open your mouth and rush it.


I think you are proving that with this post.

I'm sorry for the ass clown comment.  That was uncalled for.  I've said I'm not an expert, I just think it's funny when people are so certain about things and not considering how complicated these issues can be.  

9 days ago
6/13/03
Posts: 23654
lionsoul -
Sogsteel - 
lionsoul -
Sogsteel - 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nytimes.com/2019/05/31/us/illegal-immigration-employers-prosecutions.amp.html

At least 11 companies have been prosecuted in the past year. Thread title is not correct

Read the first post:  "the reality is that the Trump administration has not charged a single company with a crime for hiring illegals.  It has charged less than a dozen individuals for hiring illegals."

I dont think its possible to charge a company itself with criminal charges, only those within the companies that commit them. But Im willing to see examples to the contrary

Not true... you can charge companies with a crime... but to have individuals go to jail, you have to charge offending individuals criminally separately....

 

I just asked my wife who is the layer and she says they cant. The criminal charges would apply to the officers and directors of the company. The only time a company directly could be charged is when a shareholder brings suite against the corporarion or something.

9 days ago
5/30/09
Posts: 18059

Why would Trump pass a law punishing businesses for hiring illegals? That would be like me passing a law against eating ass

9 days ago
4/1/10
Posts: 2038
lionsoul -
Teamprimal1 - 
Sogsteel -

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nytimes.com/2019/05/31/us/illegal-immigration-employers-prosecutions.amp.html

At least 11 companies have been prosecuted in the past year. Thread title is not correct

This.  These ass clowns claim shit they have no idea about.  Guys ppl will find out how stupid you are soon enough, no need to open your mouth and rush it.


I think you are proving that with this post.

This post might of made me look like an ass but I didn't even make any claims just a snarky comment.  So how could I have proved anything?  And if you will actually look objectively, you will see nothing a said in my other post was inaccurate.

9 days ago
4/1/10
Posts: 2039
Sogsteel -
lionsoul -
Sogsteel - 
lionsoul -
Sogsteel - 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nytimes.com/2019/05/31/us/illegal-immigration-employers-prosecutions.amp.html

At least 11 companies have been prosecuted in the past year. Thread title is not correct

Read the first post:  "the reality is that the Trump administration has not charged a single company with a crime for hiring illegals.  It has charged less than a dozen individuals for hiring illegals."

I dont think its possible to charge a company itself with criminal charges, only those within the companies that commit them. But Im willing to see examples to the contrary

Not true... you can charge companies with a crime... but to have individuals go to jail, you have to charge offending individuals criminally separately....

 

I just asked my wife who is the layer and she says they cant. The criminal charges would apply to the officers and directors of the company. The only time a company directly could be charged is when a shareholder brings suite against the corporarion or something.

They have dude. Look it up.  

9 days ago
1/1/01
Posts: 45020
darkness66 - 

Why would Trump pass a law punishing businesses for hiring illegals? That would be like me passing a law against eating ass


Herein lies the problem.  For better or worse, part of our economy is set up for the hiring of illegals.  Even John McCain campaigned that we need them here to take jobs that Americans won't fill.   Of course that just means we won't fill them for anything close to the wages they pay the illegals.  To fill the jobs with Americans would skyrocket the cost of produce and poultry.  If the public starts paying $30 for a chicken or a handful of produce, everyone is going to turn pro-illegal immigration real quick.

9 days ago
2/3/09
Posts: 1636
lionsoul -
Sogsteel - 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nytimes.com/2019/05/31/us/illegal-immigration-employers-prosecutions.amp.html

At least 11 companies have been prosecuted in the past year. Thread title is not correct

Read the first post:  "the reality is that the Trump administration has not charged a single company with a crime for hiring illegals.  It has charged less than a dozen individuals for hiring illegals."

Also, from your article:

"“Not only are few employers prosecuted, fewer who are convicted receive sentences that amount to more than token punishment,” TRAC said in a statement.

Of the 11 people convicted during the 12-month period, only three served prison time despite Immigration and Customs Enforcement’s stated mission: “ICE’s worksite enforcement strategy focuses on the criminal prosecution of employers who knowingly hire illegal workers.”

To be fair though, you omitted something that helps put things into perspective....you should state that the article says that according to the same source, the number of prosecutions has rarely exceeded 15 in a year. Obama was actually the highest with 25 in a year, and Bush with 20. So if 15 is rare, 11 isn't actually that terrible. 

 

Also, a business can be charged with a crime. In doing that though, as explained in the article, that nothing really comes of it, aside from what amounts to a token punishment. When they charge individuals however, that's when harsher punishments, such as actual jail time can occur. 

9 days ago
6/13/03
Posts: 23655

Yeah looks like my wife was wrong for the most part.

9 days ago
4/1/10
Posts: 2040

The companies are claiming they used e verify.  So it's being investigated.  To claim that he's not doing anything is just inaccurate.  

9 days ago
4/1/10
Posts: 2041
Sogsteel -

Yeah looks like my wife was wrong for the most part.

Respect for acknowledging!  

9 days ago
4/1/10
Posts: 2042
Soup and Beer -
darkness66 - 

Why would Trump pass a law punishing businesses for hiring illegals? That would be like me passing a law against eating ass


Herein lies the problem.  For better or worse, part of our economy is set up for the hiring of illegals.  Even John McCain campaigned that we need them here to take jobs that Americans won't fill.   Of course that just means we won't fill them for anything close to the wages they pay the illegals.  To fill the jobs with Americans would skyrocket the cost of produce and poultry.  If the public starts paying $30 for a chicken or a handful of produce, everyone is going to turn pro-illegal immigration real quick.

Damn thank you!  Exactly what I was tryin to explain, you just did it better!.  It's not a simple thing without consequences.  There isn't always a perfect solution

9 days ago
6/22/13
Posts: 1135
Sogsteel -
lionsoul -
Sogsteel - 
lionsoul -
Sogsteel - 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nytimes.com/2019/05/31/us/illegal-immigration-employers-prosecutions.amp.html

At least 11 companies have been prosecuted in the past year. Thread title is not correct

Read the first post:  "the reality is that the Trump administration has not charged a single company with a crime for hiring illegals.  It has charged less than a dozen individuals for hiring illegals."

I dont think its possible to charge a company itself with criminal charges, only those within the companies that commit them. But Im willing to see examples to the contrary

Not true... you can charge companies with a crime... but to have individuals go to jail, you have to charge offending individuals criminally separately....

 

I just asked my wife who is the layer and she says they cant. The criminal charges would apply to the officers and directors of the company. The only time a company directly could be charged is when a shareholder brings suite against the corporarion or something.

Maybe instead of charged... they should be fined as they would with a pollution infraction.   

9 days ago
5/30/09
Posts: 18060
Soup and Beer -
darkness66 - 

Why would Trump pass a law punishing businesses for hiring illegals? That would be like me passing a law against eating ass


Herein lies the problem.  For better or worse, part of our economy is set up for the hiring of illegals.  Even John McCain campaigned that we need them here to take jobs that Americans won't fill.   Of course that just means we won't fill them for anything close to the wages they pay the illegals.  To fill the jobs with Americans would skyrocket the cost of produce and poultry.  If the public starts paying $30 for a chicken or a handful of produce, everyone is going to turn pro-illegal immigration real quick.

So you're saying we should raise the minimum wage so that companies can afford to how American workers? Careful, you're starting to sound like a socialist

9 days ago
6/19/10
Posts: 4138
Soup and Beer -
darkness66 - 

Why would Trump pass a law punishing businesses for hiring illegals? That would be like me passing a law against eating ass


Herein lies the problem.  For better or worse, part of our economy is set up for the hiring of illegals.  Even John McCain campaigned that we need them here to take jobs that Americans won't fill.   Of course that just means we won't fill them for anything close to the wages they pay the illegals.  To fill the jobs with Americans would skyrocket the cost of produce and poultry.  If the public starts paying $30 for a chicken or a handful of produce, everyone is going to turn pro-illegal immigration real quick.

How are you deriving these numbers?

 

if they pay poultry workers 12/hr and the wage would be 18/hr if filled with Americans that is a 50% increase in labor cost. 

 

What percent of the final price does labor comprise?  Let’s say it 50% of the price now. Assume it’s $4/pound. 

 

$2 would be half (labor costs). If labor cost increased 50% (from 12 to 18), the new price would be $5/pound   

 

Not bad at all. 

9 days ago
9/8/02
Posts: 23539
Yea, Trump spends his time looking through craigslist to see which landscapers hire illegals, then he "charges" them.
9 days ago
9/26/10
Posts: 20247
Yamie Jagerbomb -
Soup and Beer -
darkness66 - 

Why would Trump pass a law punishing businesses for hiring illegals? That would be like me passing a law against eating ass


Herein lies the problem.  For better or worse, part of our economy is set up for the hiring of illegals.  Even John McCain campaigned that we need them here to take jobs that Americans won't fill.   Of course that just means we won't fill them for anything close to the wages they pay the illegals.  To fill the jobs with Americans would skyrocket the cost of produce and poultry.  If the public starts paying $30 for a chicken or a handful of produce, everyone is going to turn pro-illegal immigration real quick.

How are you deriving these numbers?

 

if they pay poultry workers 12/hr and the wage would be 18/hr if filled with Americans that is a 50% increase in labor cost. 

 

What percent of the final price does labor comprise?  Let’s say it 50% of the price now. Assume it’s $4/pound. 

 

$2 would be half (labor costs). If labor cost increased 50% (from 12 to 18), the new price would be $5/pound   

 

Not bad at all. 

GOod post, yamie. prices will go up, but people overexaggerate how much. by A LOT. 

9 days ago
10/17/06
Posts: 2435
Graduate1 -
lionsoul -
Graduate1 -

Not yet you meant to say?

We shall see if he takes action or not going forward.

3/4ths of his first term is almost over...

Hasn't done jack shit in this regard.

Well, he has indirectly put all companies on watch with the ICE raids so you can't say he hasn't done anything..

Plenty of ice raids I never Obama bush clinton Etc

9 days ago
4/1/10
Posts: 2043
ufc98newb -
Yamie Jagerbomb -
Soup and Beer -
darkness66 - 

Why would Trump pass a law punishing businesses for hiring illegals? That would be like me passing a law against eating ass


Herein lies the problem.  For better or worse, part of our economy is set up for the hiring of illegals.  Even John McCain campaigned that we need them here to take jobs that Americans won't fill.   Of course that just means we won't fill them for anything close to the wages they pay the illegals.  To fill the jobs with Americans would skyrocket the cost of produce and poultry.  If the public starts paying $30 for a chicken or a handful of produce, everyone is going to turn pro-illegal immigration real quick.

How are you deriving these numbers?

 

if they pay poultry workers 12/hr and the wage would be 18/hr if filled with Americans that is a 50% increase in labor cost. 

 

What percent of the final price does labor comprise?  Let’s say it 50% of the price now. Assume it’s $4/pound. 

 

$2 would be half (labor costs). If labor cost increased 50% (from 12 to 18), the new price would be $5/pound   

 

Not bad at all. 

GOod post, yamie. prices will go up, but people overexaggerate how much. by A LOT. 

Problem is efficiency and willingness to do these jobs.  Also, you would need more employees to do same work.  Illegals are willing to work 15 hours a day and frankly outwork lower skilled Americans who would fill those jobs.  More costs increase than most realize.  But the free market over time would adapt.  But the gun slinging approach to punishing the employers would backfire.  

Edited: 9 days ago
5/10/08
Posts: 46791
BZtown10 -

Op spreading fake news 

https://www.dallasnews.com/news/immigration/2018/08/28/immigration-officials-descend-north-texas-company-allegedly-hired-undocumented-immigrants

 

Wrong.  There was a raid.  Workers were penalized.

Company was not charged or convicted.  

Last article I found on them, the Federal employees said it "is on ongoing investigation."

It is pretty clear that they are going after the workers and less so the employer.  The last time the company was fined was under Obama for roughly half a million $.

Like I said in my OP:  

"the reality is that the Trump administration has not charged a single company with a crime for hiring illegals.  It has charged less than a dozen individuals for hiring illegals."

Also, from the other article:

"“Not only are few employers prosecuted, fewer who are convicted receive sentences that amount to more than token punishment,” TRAC said in a statement.

Of the 11 people convicted during the 12-month period, only three served prison time despite Immigration and Customs Enforcement’s stated mission: “ICE’s worksite enforcement strategy focuses on the criminal prosecution of employers who knowingly hire illegal workers.”

9 days ago
7/13/17
Posts: 4032

I thought there were only illegals here on work visas? 

9 days ago
6/1/07
Posts: 20896
I'm generally a Trump supporter, but not blindly so.

I agree that it is bullshit they aren't going after these companies and sending the message that employing illegal labor will lead to massive fines and imprisonment for their employers. The only way to stop this shit is to make MORE expensive to employee illegals than it is to employ American citizens. The only way to do that is change the risk-reward ratio by vastly increasing the risk factor for the employers.
9 days ago
7/13/17
Posts: 4033
lionsoul -
BZtown10 -

Op spreading fake news 

https://www.dallasnews.com/news/immigration/2018/08/28/immigration-officials-descend-north-texas-company-allegedly-hired-undocumented-immigrants

 

Wrong.  There was a raid.  Workers were penalized.

Company was not charged or convicted.  

Last article I found on them, the Federal employees said it "is on ongoing investigation."

It is pretty clear that they are going after the workers and less so the employer.  The last time the company was fined was under Obama for roughly half a million $.

Like I said in my OP:  

"the reality is that the Trump administration has not charged a single company with a crime for hiring illegals.  It has charged less than a dozen individuals for hiring illegals."

Also, from the other article:

"“Not only are few employers prosecuted, fewer who are convicted receive sentences that amount to more than token punishment,” TRAC said in a statement.

Of the 11 people convicted during the 12-month period, only three served prison time despite Immigration and Customs Enforcement’s stated mission: “ICE’s worksite enforcement strategy focuses on the criminal prosecution of employers who knowingly hire illegal workers.”

Wrong 

Load Trail’s total fines could reach well over a million dollars. 

Looks like an ongoing investigation. But they raid the company because they hired illegals not because ICE saw a few brown guys walking into work  lol  

9 days ago
6/1/07
Posts: 20897
Teamprimal1 - 

I do agree it's bad form for conservatives to hold a line until it comes their profitability.  But, if that is a common practice among their competitors, should they go out of business or do what they have to do to survive?  Or we the consumers take it on the head because they have to pass the cost bc of the increase in labor costs due to lack of cheap labor.  I'm not sure what the right answer.  It's pretty complicated is my only point


I will gladly pay an extra 25%-50% for produce and poultry if it means the people who work in those horrendous jobs get paid what the LEGAL job market will bear. Letting Big Agriculture take advantage of poor and desperate illegal workers just to fatten up their bottom line is bullshit. Hit 'em hard when they get caught subverting the labor market by employing illegal labor. Make 'em pay wages/benefits high enough to attract LEGAL labor.