OtherGround Forums Trump Has Not Charged 1 Company 4 Hiring Illegals

5 days ago
5/10/08
Posts: 46822
BZtown10 - 
lionsoul -
BZtown10 - 
Kings21 -
BZtown10 -

https://www.intellihub.com/obamas-executive-amnesty-incentivizes-businesses-hire-illegals-native-born-americans/

how come op left this out? 

Oh man...you got him now...

Fuck yeah now they call in trump to fix Obama era policies 


You continue to miss the plot.

No President has done jack shit to target the employers of Illegals, Trump included.

You continue to pound the table on idiotic partisan slights while missing the big picture.

You are a lemming.

It would be funny to witness if it wasn't so sad.

Maybe you should run for Congress since that's who passes these laws.  What would be your plan?  Or is it all Orange man bad in your eyes? 


I take it back... It is funny to witness.

5 days ago
11/10/18
Posts: 3504

The only real way to stop illegal immigration is to make this an undesirable destination. That means no job, no healthcare, no school for kids, no government handout of any kind. It’s just common sense. The reality is neither party wants to stop illegal immigration. They just want to talk about it and keep stupid people fired up about it. Exactly the same as racism, healthcare, and other bullshit issues. 

5 days ago
5/10/08
Posts: 46823
Eskimo - 

The only real way to stop illegal immigration is to make this an undesirable destination. That means no job, no healthcare, no school for kids, no government handout of any kind. It’s just common sense. The reality is neither party wants to stop illegal immigration. They just want to talk about it and keep stupid people fired up about it. Exactly the same as racism, healthcare, and other bullshit issues. 


Boom.

5 days ago
2/3/09
Posts: 1638
lionsoul -

^^^ Would have added "admin" in thread title if it fit...

Added it in the post... but you appear to be too dumb to read it.

Also - no new laws need to be passed.  Just enforced. It is already illegal to knowingly hire illegals.

Yes, there are laws in place for this, although the key word you used there is knowingly.

 

A lot of the reasoning behind the prosecution numbers as whole being so low, is that this is often hard to prove, due to the fact that the businesses typically have a form of plausible deniability that shields them. Many of the illegals will submit stolen/forged documentation, or in many cases are willingly helped by donors who allow them to use their personal info in order to aide/help obtain a job.

 

So, while it can eventually be proven that the company did have illegal immigrants working for them, as long as the company went through the proper channels/were working in good faith, after being provided what they believed was authentic identification etc, that whole knowingly hired bit becomes muddied to say the least. Resulting in not many cases being brought against employers. 

 

On top of that, if an employer is going through the hiring process, and they might suspect someone is an illegal, but can't prove it, and choose not to hire someone due to this, oddly enough, they can open themselves up to a discrimination suit.

 

So while the process seems like it should be cut and dry, it's not nearly that simple. To say no new laws need to be passed, isn't necessarily true either, as it's clear, since the laws were introduced in the 1980's, they haven't been very effective. There are things that could be enacted to help close some of those loopholes. Like making the e-verify system standard for all employers etc, or increasing the actual dollar amount of the fines that can be levied. If I recall, the lowest fine is only $250 to a max of $2000 per each violation....and if its paperwork related, it's something like $100 to $1000 per each violation.

 

Mix that all together and it's easy to see why that charges usually only amount to a slap on the wrist.

 

 

5 days ago
8/23/11
Posts: 5514
darkness66 - 
Soup and Beer -
darkness66 - 

Why would Trump pass a law punishing businesses for hiring illegals? That would be like me passing a law against eating ass


Herein lies the problem.  For better or worse, part of our economy is set up for the hiring of illegals.  Even John McCain campaigned that we need them here to take jobs that Americans won't fill.   Of course that just means we won't fill them for anything close to the wages they pay the illegals.  To fill the jobs with Americans would skyrocket the cost of produce and poultry.  If the public starts paying $30 for a chicken or a handful of produce, everyone is going to turn pro-illegal immigration real quick.

So you're saying we should raise the minimum wage so that companies can afford to how American workers? Careful, you're starting to sound like a socialist


he's not saying the govt should raise the min wage... he's saying the labour market would dictate that the wages be raised.

If free markets worked and there were no illegals willing to work for less, then companies would have to pay more to get the work done... go out of business because its a failed business model... or innovate and automate to do the work cheaper and more cost effective.

That is capitalism
5 days ago
12/6/16
Posts: 3921
Eskimo -

The only real way to stop illegal immigration is to make this an undesirable destination. That means no job, no healthcare, no school for kids, no government handout of any kind. It’s just common sense. The reality is neither party wants to stop illegal immigration. They just want to talk about it and keep stupid people fired up about it. Exactly the same as racism, healthcare, and other bullshit issues. 

This and heavy fines for those that employ illegals/jail time for repeat offenders.

5 days ago
1/1/01
Posts: 45034
androb - 
darkness66 - 
Soup and Beer -
darkness66 - 

Why would Trump pass a law punishing businesses for hiring illegals? That would be like me passing a law against eating ass


Herein lies the problem.  For better or worse, part of our economy is set up for the hiring of illegals.  Even John McCain campaigned that we need them here to take jobs that Americans won't fill.   Of course that just means we won't fill them for anything close to the wages they pay the illegals.  To fill the jobs with Americans would skyrocket the cost of produce and poultry.  If the public starts paying $30 for a chicken or a handful of produce, everyone is going to turn pro-illegal immigration real quick.

So you're saying we should raise the minimum wage so that companies can afford to how American workers? Careful, you're starting to sound like a socialist


he's not saying the govt should raise the min wage... he's saying the labour market would dictate that the wages be raised.

If free markets worked and there were no illegals willing to work for less, then companies would have to pay more to get the work done... go out of business because its a failed business model... or innovate and automate to do the work cheaper and more cost effective.

That is capitalism

Additionally, my post wasn't taking a stance either for or against illegal immigration.  Only that I predict many people's opposition to illegals would disolve once they start paying higher prices for poultry and produce.

5 days ago
5/10/08
Posts: 46829
Flyerfan - 
lionsoul -

^^^ Would have added "admin" in thread title if it fit...

Added it in the post... but you appear to be too dumb to read it.

Also - no new laws need to be passed.  Just enforced. It is already illegal to knowingly hire illegals.

Yes, there are laws in place for this, although the key word you used there is knowingly.

 

A lot of the reasoning behind the prosecution numbers as whole being so low, is that this is often hard to prove, due to the fact that the businesses typically have a form of plausible deniability that shields them. Many of the illegals will submit stolen/forged documentation, or in many cases are willingly helped by donors who allow them to use their personal info in order to aide/help obtain a job.

 

So, while it can eventually be proven that the company did have illegal immigrants working for them, as long as the company went through the proper channels/were working in good faith, after being provided what they believed was authentic identification etc, that whole knowingly hired bit becomes muddied to say the least. Resulting in not many cases being brought against employers. 

 

On top of that, if an employer is going through the hiring process, and they might suspect someone is an illegal, but can't prove it, and choose not to hire someone due to this, oddly enough, they can open themselves up to a discrimination suit.

 

So while the process seems like it should be cut and dry, it's not nearly that simple. To say no new laws need to be passed, isn't necessarily true either, as it's clear, since the laws were introduced in the 1980's, they haven't been very effective. There are things that could be enacted to help close some of those loopholes. Like making the e-verify system standard for all employers etc, or increasing the actual dollar amount of the fines that can be levied. If I recall, the lowest fine is only $250 to a max of $2000 per each violation....and if its paperwork related, it's something like $100 to $1000 per each violation.

 

Mix that all together and it's easy to see why that charges usually only amount to a slap on the wrist.

 

 


Fair point... I am all for mandating e-verify and giving stiffer financial penalties (that have nothing to do with intent).

If an illegal works at your company and it is discovered by the authorities, you will have to pay a fee.

As long as they utilized e-verify... no penalty.  

If not... stiff fines.

5 days ago
7/31/09
Posts: 18751
Soup and Beer -
androb - 
darkness66 - 
Soup and Beer -
darkness66 - 

Why would Trump pass a law punishing businesses for hiring illegals? That would be like me passing a law against eating ass


Herein lies the problem.  For better or worse, part of our economy is set up for the hiring of illegals.  Even John McCain campaigned that we need them here to take jobs that Americans won't fill.   Of course that just means we won't fill them for anything close to the wages they pay the illegals.  To fill the jobs with Americans would skyrocket the cost of produce and poultry.  If the public starts paying $30 for a chicken or a handful of produce, everyone is going to turn pro-illegal immigration real quick.

So you're saying we should raise the minimum wage so that companies can afford to how American workers? Careful, you're starting to sound like a socialist


he's not saying the govt should raise the min wage... he's saying the labour market would dictate that the wages be raised.

If free markets worked and there were no illegals willing to work for less, then companies would have to pay more to get the work done... go out of business because its a failed business model... or innovate and automate to do the work cheaper and more cost effective.

That is capitalism

Additionally, my post wasn't taking a stance either for or against illegal immigration.  Only that I predict many people's opposition to illegals would disolve once they start paying higher prices for poultry and produce.

Fine by me if it keeps illegals from killing our citizens when they should havebeen deported a year ago.

5 days ago
4/1/10
Posts: 2047
lionsoul -
David@accu - 
lionsoul - 

While much has been made about this big raid recently, the Trump administration is getting some well deserved scrutiny.

For all his rhetoric against illegal immigrants coming into the country and all the rhetoric against sanctuary cities, the reality is that the Trump administration has not charged a single company with a crime for hiring illegals.  It has charged less than a dozen individuals for hiring illegals.

Will the President actually take action against "sanctuary businesses" and "sanctuary farms" (the owners of which tend to vote for him)?

Also, he deserves significant scrutiny for the fact he has employed (over decades) and continues to employee huge volumes of illegal immigrants at his businesses.

Isn't this the height of hypocrisy?


Do you do any research before making these silly threads? Took me all of 2 minutes to find out that a judge has already signed warrants against the owners in the most recent mega bust. There is no other way to go after a business doing illegal things. You lock up the owners. Manage your expectations you fucking loon. 


Here we go again... stalker Dave following me from thread to thread.

It hasn't happened yet.

It is on ongoing investigation.

Stop pretending that they have criminally convicted any business when they haven't yet.

As I said in the OP, they have only criminally charged 11 individuals.

Most have been given a slap on the wrist:

"Also, from the other article:

"“Not only are few employers prosecuted, fewer who are convicted receive sentences that amount to more than token punishment,” TRAC said in a statement.
 
Of the 11 people convicted during the 12-month period, only three served prison time despite Immigration and Customs Enforcement’s stated mission: “ICE’s worksite enforcement strategy focuses on the criminal prosecution of employers who knowingly hire illegal workers.”"

Most have been given a slap on the wrist:

Not sure how anything I stated would make me a "loon"?... but we have come to expect that behavior from you these days.
 

You just misconsrue "haven't" with "won't" I'd my problem with your thread.

5 days ago
1/1/01
Posts: 32569
OP is actually Chuck Todd
Edited: 5 days ago
1/1/01
Posts: 4696
lionsoul-
"The problem is that the far left and far right really support open borders. The far leftists don't believe in national sovereignty and the far righties love the fact they can get cheap labor for pennies on the dollar."


This right here is the leader thus far in the most batshit crazy statement of the year award.
"The right wants open borders" You can't make up this kind of stupid. It's genuine.
5 days ago
6/1/07
Posts: 20910
Dryfly - lionsoul-
"The problem is that the far left and far right really support open borders. The far leftists don't believe in national sovereignty and the far righties love the fact they can get cheap labor for pennies on the dollar."


This right here is the leader thus far in the most batshit crazy statement of the year award.
"The right wants open borders" You can't make up this kind of stupid. It's genuine.

It depends how you define 'the right'.

The globalist neocons and the libertarians definitely have strong open-border leanings. The populists do not. Prior to Trump, the neocons and libertarians set the conservative agenda, and did next to nothing to address border and immigration issues.
Edited: 4 days ago
5/10/08
Posts: 46834
Steve4192 - 
Dryfly - lionsoul-
"The problem is that the far left and far right really support open borders. The far leftists don't believe in national sovereignty and the far righties love the fact they can get cheap labor for pennies on the dollar."


This right here is the leader thus far in the most batshit crazy statement of the year award.
"The right wants open borders" You can't make up this kind of stupid. It's genuine.
It depends how you define 'the right'.

The globalist neocons and the libertarians definitely have strong open-border leanings. The populists do not. Prior to Trump, the neocons and libertarians set the conservative agenda, and did next to nothing to address border and immigration issues.

And the reality (which is the point of this thread) is that the right (and left) administrations have done jack shit to penalize employers (who love the cheap illegal immigrant labor).

4 days ago
6/1/07
Posts: 20911
lionsoul - 
Steve4192 - 
Dryfly - lionsoul-
"The problem is that the far left and far right really support open borders. The far leftists don't believe in national sovereignty and the far righties love the fact they can get cheap labor for pennies on the dollar."


This right here is the leader thus far in the most batshit crazy statement of the year award.
"The right wants open borders" You can't make up this kind of stupid. It's genuine.
It depends how you define 'the right'.

The globalist neocons and the libertarians definitely have strong open-border leanings. The populists do not. Prior to Trump, the neocons and libertarians set the conservative agenda, and did next to nothing to address border and immigration issues.

And the reality (which is the point of this thread) is that the right (and left) administrations have done jack shit to penalize employers (who love the cheap illegal immigrant labor).


Agreed.

The real problem that I see going forward is that with the Democrats abandoning organized labor (too white, too many deplorables), the last vestiges of their 20th century coalition that give a shit about immigration control are exiting the party, leaving their 21st century coalition without any dissenting voices to oppose their open borders group think. That could lead to some dangerous immigration policies when they eventually regain power (be it next year or five years from now).

The only hope I see for democrats on immigration policy is that the black and hispanic caucuses start to push back on the insane immigration platform promoted by the mostly white woke left. Sadly, I don't see that happening until AFTER they have been burned by bad policies and realize that their constituencies are bearing the brunt of the pain.
4 days ago
7/4/11
Posts: 4056

Lmao watch all those companies go bankrupt

4 days ago
12/1/10
Posts: 4116
saw this yesterday


https://www.newsweek.com/ann-coulter-suggests-trump-charged-employing-undocumented-migrant-workers-1453864

ANN COULTER SUGGESTS DONALD TRUMP SHOULD BE CHARGED FOR EMPLOYING UNDOCUMENTED MIGRANT WORKERS

Right-wing commentator and former avid supporter of President Donald Trump Ann Coulter has asked why the president and other employers have not been charged with a crime for hiring undocumented migrants.

"Yes, why WON'T authorities charge the employers using all the illegal alien workers?" Coulter wrote on Twitter, sharing an op-ed from The Washington Post calling out Trump's double standard of allegedly employing undocumented migrants while his administration raids other companies and deports working immigrants without legal status.

"ANSWER: BOTH REPUBLICANS AND DEMOCRATS SUCK UP TO EMPLOYERS FOR THEIR CAMPAIGN DONATIONS," Coulter answered her own question.


Coulter previously wrote a book entitled In Trump We Trust back in 2016, but has since soured on the president. The major political issue for the right-wing commentator was cracking down on undocumented immigration and building a wall at the southern border of the U.S. with Mexico. As time has passed without immigration policies that are hardline enough in her opinion, Coulter has steadily lashed out at Trump, predicting that he will be beat by a Democratic opponent in 2020.


The article re-tweeted by Coulter was titled "Another Trump double standard hurting the poor and minorities." In the op-ed, thePost's opinion editor James Downie detailed how the Trump administration has neglected to go after employers for hiring undocumented workers, choosing instead to largely just punish the migrants. Downie also pointed out that reporting by the Post has shown that the president's company, The Trump Organization, has employed undocumented individuals at several of its properties.

"It's worth noting that this discrepancy in enforcement is a policy change under the Trump administration. Before President Barack Obama's first term was over, his administration had already accumulated more audits and penalties on employers than were imposed during both terms of of the George W. Bush administration," Downie wrote.

"Funny how employer audits almost completely dried up after a president whose companies employ undocumented immigrants entered office," he pointed out.

Last week, The Post reported that at least at least eight Trump properties have hired a number of undocumented workers. The newspaper and other media outlets have repeatedly reported on the president's company employing migrants without legal status in the past, despite Trump's hardline immigration policies and routine criticism of individuals attempting to immigrate to the U.S.

On Sunday, CNN anchor Jake Tapper questioned acting Customs and Border Protection (CBP) Mark Morgan, who previously served as acting director of Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE), why none of Trump's personal businesses had been raided.
3 days ago
5/10/08
Posts: 46863

^^^^ Yeah... As annoying as Coulter is... she is spot on in many ways with regard to illegal immigration.

3 days ago
3/20/15
Posts: 12178

It's a good thing the president doesn't have the power to arrest people......

Duh...OP....

3 days ago
3/29/19
Posts: 542

Shit takes time.  He has still gotten more done than any 4 presidents before him combined. 

 

 

3 days ago
12/1/10
Posts: 4121
Picochu - 

Shit takes time.  He has still gotten more done than any 4 presidents before him combined. 

 

 


"It's worth noting that this discrepancy in enforcement is a policy change under the Trump administration. Before President Barack Obama's first term was over, his administration had already accumulated more audits and penalties on employers than were imposed during both terms of of the George W. Bush administration," Downie wrote.

going by factual numbers on the board he has not in this respect.

i look forward to him doing so.

at this point i wouldn't even care if it was one dem owned companies at least it would be something.