OtherGround Forums US says China military gather at Hong Kong border

Edited: 7/31/19 4:52 AM
2/25/13
Posts: 26786

some people think Hong Kong is in China, but there is actually an international border that seperates the two. now Chinese forces are gathering on the China side

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White House Eyeing Chinese Forces Gathered on Hong Kong Border

July 31, 2019

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-07-30/white-house-eyeing-buildup-of-chinese-forces-on-hong-kong-border

The White House is monitoring what a senior administration official called a congregation of Chinese forces on Hong Kong’s border.

Weeks of unrest in the Chinese territory have begun to overwhelm Hong Kong’s police, who have found themselves in violent clashes with protesters. China warned Monday that the civil disorder had gone “far beyond” peaceful protest after police deployed tear gas over the weekend.

The nature of the Chinese buildup wasn’t clear; the official said that units of the Chinese military or armed police had gathered at the border with Hong Kong. The official briefed reporters on a range of issues on condition he not be identified.

Eurasia Group China analyst Andrew Coflan said he was taking the White House concerns “with a grain of salt” as it was unclear whether the White House was merely observing a large swearing-in ceremony of around 19,000 police personnel in China’s southern Guangdong province.

“I do not know if this is what they’re referring to, but if so this statement strikes me as needlessly escalatory,” Coflan said in an email. “Yes, there may be some signaling from China in the assembly of this many security forces in Guangdong, but that is far different than anti-riot troops marshaling in Shenzhen.”

Chinese Foreign Ministry spokeswoman Hua Chunying said at a briefing Wednesday that she was not aware of a situation on the border.

Under the Basic Law that governs Hong Kong, the maintenance of public order falls to local authorities, while China’s central government is responsible for the overall defense of the territory. Hong Kong can still ask Beijing “for assistance from the garrison in the maintenance of public order and in disaster relief.”

China’s People’s Liberation Army maintains a garrison of reportedly around 6,000 troops in Hong Kong, along with a naval squadron and a helicopter regiment. There are even more troops stationed just across the border in Shenzhen.


‘Right Thing’

The mainland government said Tuesday that violence in Hong Kong was a “creation of the U.S.,” a charge the administration official denied.

The developments come as President Donald Trump seeks a trade deal with China and just as the two nations resumed negotiations in Shanghai. Trump has spoken only sparingly about the protests, praising Chinese President Xi Jinping for his restraint. But it’s unclear how much planning the U.S. has done to prepare for possible Chinese military intervention in Hong Kong.

U.S. Secretary of State Michael Pompeo urged the Chinese on Monday to “do the right thing” in managing the protests in Hong Kong, which began more than eight weeks ago, after the city-state’s executive, Carrie Lam, tried to win passage of a law allowing extraditions to the mainland.

Chinese Foreign Ministry spokeswoman Hua Chunying responded to Pompeo on Tuesday by blaming the U.S. for the protests.

“It’s clear that Mr. Pompeo has put himself in the wrong position and still regards himself as the head of the CIA,” Hua said, referring to Pompeo’s previous role at the intelligence agency. “He might think that violent activities in Hong Kong are reasonable because after all, this is the creation of the U.S.”

Pompeo, heading to a regional conference in Bangkok on Tuesday, responded mildly when asked by a reporter on his plane what he’d say to the Chinese foreign minister when they met at the event.

“With respect to Hong Kong, this is the people of Hong Kong asking their government to listen to them,” he said. “So it’s always appropriate for every government to listen to their people.”

Paul Sullivan, an international security expert at the National Defense University, said that China views the situation in terms of its long-term impact on the regime’s central power.

“The Chinese most likely have a very long-term perspective on this, and they aren’t going to be one China and two systems anymore,” Sullivan said. “My sense is that they want to completely chew up Hong Kong and make it part of the central part of China, maybe to improve their trading and economic base.”

Charles Lipson, a political science professor at the University of Chicago, said the U.S.’s options to intervene would be limited.

“There’s very little the U.S. can do, should do, or will want to do prior to a major crackdown,” Lipson said. “After which the U.S. will complain mightily but from the point of view of the U.S., there’s essentially nothing that can be done if the Chinese want to crack down on Hong Kong.”

 . . . . . . .

7/31/19 4:53 AM
7/15/04
Posts: 56633

 

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7/31/19 5:04 AM
2/25/13
Posts: 26787

next monday people are planning a work strike

Edited: 7/31/19 5:49 AM
3/11/11
Posts: 4276

The article below provides an update on the situation in Hong Kong and China, including Beijing's preparations for a military crackdown, the brewing general strike, and the antagonism between the movement's pro-Western, pro-big business leaders and its masses of workers and poor.

 

Hong Kong: build the general strike! Bring the government down!

 

[...]

 

The demand for a political general strike is gaining ground. If the MTR strike takes place and goes well, it is the logical next step. It looks like a general strike may be organised for 5 August by an online grouping called the “Three Strikes and 7 District Propaganda Group”. Those who have correctly put out the call for it, have also said that participants should attend mass assemblies in 7 different districts. This is an enormous step forward, and begins to place the movement on a class basis – the only basis that can guarantee success.

 

A political general strike, in this atmosphere of mass protests, poses the question of power. The trade unions must begin building for it immediately, organising workplace meetings to prepare disciplined, strong pickets and workers’ defence forces. Such a strike reveals that it is the working class that makes society work, because they have the power to shut everything down. That implies that they have the power to truly run society, on their own terms, not those of the tiny minority of billionaires.

 

Given this, the movement will need to put forward far more radical demands. At the moment, the demands of the general strike will be for the complete withdrawal of the extradition bill, an investigation into police brutality, and universal suffrage. But China simply cannot tolerate universal suffrage in Hong Kong, which it knows would lead to succession from China, and the formation of a government that is hostile to China and yet right on its doorstep and vital for its trade.

 

To achieve universal suffrage, the movement must not ask for it, but organise it itself. The planned mass assemblies are the right way forward. But it is unclear what these are for. We think they should be used to elect delegates to form a genuine government of the Hong Kong people. The anti-Beijing trade unions should mobilise all their members to build for this strike and to attend the assemblies. It is also time that they set about organising a workers’ party to fight for the socialist interests of the working class. It is capitalism, not simply the authoritarianism of Beijing, that has led to the housing crisis, low wages and endless working hours of Hong Kong. A workers’ party fighting not only for universal suffrage but for a socialist programme of social housing, nationalisation and solidarity with the mainland working class, would quickly gain mass support from the Hong Kong working class and youth.

 

Ultimately, the fate of the Hong Kong working class lies with their brothers and sisters on the mainland. The Chinese working class are not enemies of Hong Kong. The real enemy is the same for both – the ruling class of China. The movement in Hong Kong must issue an appeal of solidarity to the Chinese working class, especially the super-exploited workers of the Pearl River delta, right next door to Hong Kong. These workers have recently begun organising against ‘996’ culture – that is, the culture in the Chinese tech industry of working from 9am-9pm, 6 days a week. Class consciousness is present throughout China.

 

Some organisers in Hong Kong have taken the correct step towards connecting with the masses of mainland China. For example, the rally that took place on 7 July in the working-class district of Kowloon explicitly aimed to fraternise with mainland Chinese tourists as well as showing solidarity with the mass struggle against the government in Wuhan. Several Hong Kong protesters spoke in Mandarin, even sang the national anthem of the People’s Republic of China to win mainland Chinese tourists over to their cause. This is an absolutely correct approach that should be promoted and embraced by the entire Anti-Extradition movement. The very survival of Hong Kong’s present struggle depends on its ability to connect with the biggest threat to the CCP regime, the Chinese working class. Whereas any sign of anti-Chinese localism or pro-British, pro-western imperialist sentiments will turn the mainland Chinese working class away and have a suicidal impact on the entire struggle.

 

If the movement in Hong Kong confines itself to liberalism and pro-Western demands, this vital, powerful alliance of the two working classes will be lost, and the movement eventually defeated. The only way forward is on a working class, socialist basis. If that path is taken, the movement in Hong Kong could even spark a revolution in China.

 

The link to the full article is below:

https://www.marxist.com/hong-kong-mass-movement-surges-forward-against-repression.htm

7/31/19 5:51 AM
1/23/06
Posts: 103435
That's their area and we should stay out of it..right?
7/31/19 5:54 AM
6/29/09
Posts: 10958
And here come the tanks again......
7/31/19 6:16 AM
1/1/01
Posts: 49036
Proteus The Invincible -

The article below provides an update on the situation in Hong Kong and China, including Beijing's preparations for a military crackdown, the brewing general strike, and the antagonism between the movement's pro-Western, pro-big business leaders and its masses of workers and poor.

 

Hong Kong: build the general strike! Bring the government down!

 

[...]

 

The demand for a political general strike is gaining ground. If the MTR strike takes place and goes well, it is the logical next step. It looks like a general strike may be organised for 5 August by an online grouping called the “Three Strikes and 7 District Propaganda Group”. Those who have correctly put out the call for it, have also said that participants should attend mass assemblies in 7 different districts. This is an enormous step forward, and begins to place the movement on a class basis – the only basis that can guarantee success.

 

A political general strike, in this atmosphere of mass protests, poses the question of power. The trade unions must begin building for it immediately, organising workplace meetings to prepare disciplined, strong pickets and workers’ defence forces. Such a strike reveals that it is the working class that makes society work, because they have the power to shut everything down. That implies that they have the power to truly run society, on their own terms, not those of the tiny minority of billionaires.

 

Given this, the movement will need to put forward far more radical demands. At the moment, the demands of the general strike will be for the complete withdrawal of the extradition bill, an investigation into police brutality, and universal suffrage. But China simply cannot tolerate universal suffrage in Hong Kong, which it knows would lead to succession from China, and the formation of a government that is hostile to China and yet right on its doorstep and vital for its trade.

 

To achieve universal suffrage, the movement must not ask for it, but organise it itself. The planned mass assemblies are the right way forward. But it is unclear what these are for. We think they should be used to elect delegates to form a genuine government of the Hong Kong people. The anti-Beijing trade unions should mobilise all their members to build for this strike and to attend the assemblies. It is also time that they set about organising a workers’ party to fight for the socialist interests of the working class. It is capitalism, not simply the authoritarianism of Beijing, that has led to the housing crisis, low wages and endless working hours of Hong Kong. A workers’ party fighting not only for universal suffrage but for a socialist programme of social housing, nationalisation and solidarity with the mainland working class, would quickly gain mass support from the Hong Kong working class and youth.

 

Ultimately, the fate of the Hong Kong working class lies with their brothers and sisters on the mainland. The Chinese working class are not enemies of Hong Kong. The real enemy is the same for both – the ruling class of China. The movement in Hong Kong must issue an appeal of solidarity to the Chinese working class, especially the super-exploited workers of the Pearl River delta, right next door to Hong Kong. These workers have recently begun organising against ‘996’ culture – that is, the culture in the Chinese tech industry of working from 9am-9pm, 6 days a week. Class consciousness is present throughout China.

 

Some organisers in Hong Kong have taken the correct step towards connecting with the masses of mainland China. For example, the rally that took place on 7 July in the working-class district of Kowloon explicitly aimed to fraternise with mainland Chinese tourists as well as showing solidarity with the mass struggle against the government in Wuhan. Several Hong Kong protesters spoke in Mandarin, even sang the national anthem of the People’s Republic of China to win mainland Chinese tourists over to their cause. This is an absolutely correct approach that should be promoted and embraced by the entire Anti-Extradition movement. The very survival of Hong Kong’s present struggle depends on its ability to connect with the biggest threat to the CCP regime, the Chinese working class. Whereas any sign of anti-Chinese localism or pro-British, pro-western imperialist sentiments will turn the mainland Chinese working class away and have a suicidal impact on the entire struggle.

 

If the movement in Hong Kong confines itself to liberalism and pro-Western demands, this vital, powerful alliance of the two working classes will be lost, and the movement eventually defeated. The only way forward is on a working class, socialist basis. If that path is taken, the movement in Hong Kong could even spark a revolution in China.

 

The link to the full article is below:

https://www.marxist.com/hong-kong-mass-movement-surges-forward-against-repression.htm

Interesting website

7/31/19 8:13 AM
1/1/01
Posts: 26407
I give zero fucks about Hong Kong.

It's not like China is massing on the border of Canada or Mexico.

7/31/19 8:28 AM
2/25/13
Posts: 26788
morotetsuke - And here come the tanks again......

tanks cant run on most HK streets, too heavy

 

7/31/19 8:29 AM
7/13/09
Posts: 22103

Curious to see what our OG socialists/communists think should be done.  

Defend their communist beliefs or take the side of the workers who work for peanuts and want basic human rights of a living wage to provide  fortheir family.

Heads will explode.  

7/31/19 8:30 AM
7/13/09
Posts: 22104
Poiupoiu -
morotetsuke - And here come the tanks again......

tanks cant run on most HK streets, too heavy

 

No problem ,free labor to repair the roads when they are done.  

7/31/19 8:54 AM
6/30/07
Posts: 55475
sicko -
Proteus The Invincible -

The article below provides an update on the situation in Hong Kong and China, including Beijing's preparations for a military crackdown, the brewing general strike, and the antagonism between the movement's pro-Western, pro-big business leaders and its masses of workers and poor.

 

Hong Kong: build the general strike! Bring the government down!

 

[...]

 

The demand for a political general strike is gaining ground. If the MTR strike takes place and goes well, it is the logical next step. It looks like a general strike may be organised for 5 August by an online grouping called the “Three Strikes and 7 District Propaganda Group”. Those who have correctly put out the call for it, have also said that participants should attend mass assemblies in 7 different districts. This is an enormous step forward, and begins to place the movement on a class basis – the only basis that can guarantee success.

 

A political general strike, in this atmosphere of mass protests, poses the question of power. The trade unions must begin building for it immediately, organising workplace meetings to prepare disciplined, strong pickets and workers’ defence forces. Such a strike reveals that it is the working class that makes society work, because they have the power to shut everything down. That implies that they have the power to truly run society, on their own terms, not those of the tiny minority of billionaires.

 

Given this, the movement will need to put forward far more radical demands. At the moment, the demands of the general strike will be for the complete withdrawal of the extradition bill, an investigation into police brutality, and universal suffrage. But China simply cannot tolerate universal suffrage in Hong Kong, which it knows would lead to succession from China, and the formation of a government that is hostile to China and yet right on its doorstep and vital for its trade.

 

To achieve universal suffrage, the movement must not ask for it, but organise it itself. The planned mass assemblies are the right way forward. But it is unclear what these are for. We think they should be used to elect delegates to form a genuine government of the Hong Kong people. The anti-Beijing trade unions should mobilise all their members to build for this strike and to attend the assemblies. It is also time that they set about organising a workers’ party to fight for the socialist interests of the working class. It is capitalism, not simply the authoritarianism of Beijing, that has led to the housing crisis, low wages and endless working hours of Hong Kong. A workers’ party fighting not only for universal suffrage but for a socialist programme of social housing, nationalisation and solidarity with the mainland working class, would quickly gain mass support from the Hong Kong working class and youth.

 

Ultimately, the fate of the Hong Kong working class lies with their brothers and sisters on the mainland. The Chinese working class are not enemies of Hong Kong. The real enemy is the same for both – the ruling class of China. The movement in Hong Kong must issue an appeal of solidarity to the Chinese working class, especially the super-exploited workers of the Pearl River delta, right next door to Hong Kong. These workers have recently begun organising against ‘996’ culture – that is, the culture in the Chinese tech industry of working from 9am-9pm, 6 days a week. Class consciousness is present throughout China.

 

Some organisers in Hong Kong have taken the correct step towards connecting with the masses of mainland China. For example, the rally that took place on 7 July in the working-class district of Kowloon explicitly aimed to fraternise with mainland Chinese tourists as well as showing solidarity with the mass struggle against the government in Wuhan. Several Hong Kong protesters spoke in Mandarin, even sang the national anthem of the People’s Republic of China to win mainland Chinese tourists over to their cause. This is an absolutely correct approach that should be promoted and embraced by the entire Anti-Extradition movement. The very survival of Hong Kong’s present struggle depends on its ability to connect with the biggest threat to the CCP regime, the Chinese working class. Whereas any sign of anti-Chinese localism or pro-British, pro-western imperialist sentiments will turn the mainland Chinese working class away and have a suicidal impact on the entire struggle.

 

If the movement in Hong Kong confines itself to liberalism and pro-Western demands, this vital, powerful alliance of the two working classes will be lost, and the movement eventually defeated. The only way forward is on a working class, socialist basis. If that path is taken, the movement in Hong Kong could even spark a revolution in China.

 

The link to the full article is below:

https://www.marxist.com/hong-kong-mass-movement-surges-forward-against-repression.htm

Interesting website

Socialism isn't the answer to communism for fuck sake

7/31/19 8:58 AM
1/1/01
Posts: 22999
CRE - That's their area and we should stay out of it..right?

Yep... At the same time, the people cheering the decline of America should use this moment to take a hard look at who’s coming to take our place.

7/31/19 10:49 AM
3/27/03
Posts: 43056

Fucking terrifying 

God Bless America 

7/31/19 11:05 AM
3/18/02
Posts: 87744
amadeus - 
CRE - That's their area and we should stay out of it..right?

Yep... At the same time, the people cheering the decline of America should use this moment to take a hard look at who’s coming to take our place.


100%

7/31/19 12:09 PM
10/4/18
Posts: 2179
BigEyedFish - 
amadeus - 
CRE - That's their area and we should stay out of it..right?

Yep... At the same time, the people cheering the decline of America should use this moment to take a hard look at who’s coming to take our place.


100%


Agreed. But, those same people are some of the dumbest people in the history of our country.
7/31/19 12:13 PM
7/22/06
Posts: 3951
They just wanna liberate the Hong Kongers and give them some order.
7/31/19 12:18 PM
10/18/14
Posts: 7317

shame about HK but i hope the US stays out of it

 

the era of us being the world's police is over

7/31/19 12:24 PM
12/26/05
Posts: 42507

7/31/19 12:28 PM
12/22/10
Posts: 22532

china is having a rough few years. 

I hope it continues. 

7/31/19 6:41 PM
2/25/13
Posts: 26795
rekt - 

shame about HK but i hope the US stays out of it

 

the era of us being the world's police is over


except in the middle east

7/31/19 6:44 PM
6/13/03
Posts: 23399

Are they kung fu fighting yet?

7/31/19 10:29 PM
2/25/13
Posts: 26796

US and Taiwan are orchestrating the protest, according to former HK leader

 

https://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/politics/article/3020829/former-hong-kong-leader-tung-chee-hwa-accuses-united-states

 

 

 

7/31/19 10:45 PM
10/27/03
Posts: 24112
Poiupoiu - 

some people think Hong Kong is in China, but there is actually an international border that seperates the two. now Chinese forces are gathering on the China side

---

White House Eyeing Chinese Forces Gathered on Hong Kong Border

July 31, 2019

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-07-30/white-house-eyeing-buildup-of-chinese-forces-on-hong-kong-border

The White House is monitoring what a senior administration official called a congregation of Chinese forces on Hong Kong’s border.

Weeks of unrest in the Chinese territory have begun to overwhelm Hong Kong’s police, who have found themselves in violent clashes with protesters. China warned Monday that the civil disorder had gone “far beyond” peaceful protest after police deployed tear gas over the weekend.

The nature of the Chinese buildup wasn’t clear; the official said that units of the Chinese military or armed police had gathered at the border with Hong Kong. The official briefed reporters on a range of issues on condition he not be identified.

Eurasia Group China analyst Andrew Coflan said he was taking the White House concerns “with a grain of salt” as it was unclear whether the White House was merely observing a large swearing-in ceremony of around 19,000 police personnel in China’s southern Guangdong province.

“I do not know if this is what they’re referring to, but if so this statement strikes me as needlessly escalatory,” Coflan said in an email. “Yes, there may be some signaling from China in the assembly of this many security forces in Guangdong, but that is far different than anti-riot troops marshaling in Shenzhen.”

Chinese Foreign Ministry spokeswoman Hua Chunying said at a briefing Wednesday that she was not aware of a situation on the border.

Under the Basic Law that governs Hong Kong, the maintenance of public order falls to local authorities, while China’s central government is responsible for the overall defense of the territory. Hong Kong can still ask Beijing “for assistance from the garrison in the maintenance of public order and in disaster relief.”

China’s People’s Liberation Army maintains a garrison of reportedly around 6,000 troops in Hong Kong, along with a naval squadron and a helicopter regiment. There are even more troops stationed just across the border in Shenzhen.


‘Right Thing’

The mainland government said Tuesday that violence in Hong Kong was a “creation of the U.S.,” a charge the administration official denied.

The developments come as President Donald Trump seeks a trade deal with China and just as the two nations resumed negotiations in Shanghai. Trump has spoken only sparingly about the protests, praising Chinese President Xi Jinping for his restraint. But it’s unclear how much planning the U.S. has done to prepare for possible Chinese military intervention in Hong Kong.

U.S. Secretary of State Michael Pompeo urged the Chinese on Monday to “do the right thing” in managing the protests in Hong Kong, which began more than eight weeks ago, after the city-state’s executive, Carrie Lam, tried to win passage of a law allowing extraditions to the mainland.

Chinese Foreign Ministry spokeswoman Hua Chunying responded to Pompeo on Tuesday by blaming the U.S. for the protests.

“It’s clear that Mr. Pompeo has put himself in the wrong position and still regards himself as the head of the CIA,” Hua said, referring to Pompeo’s previous role at the intelligence agency. “He might think that violent activities in Hong Kong are reasonable because after all, this is the creation of the U.S.”

Pompeo, heading to a regional conference in Bangkok on Tuesday, responded mildly when asked by a reporter on his plane what he’d say to the Chinese foreign minister when they met at the event.

“With respect to Hong Kong, this is the people of Hong Kong asking their government to listen to them,” he said. “So it’s always appropriate for every government to listen to their people.”

Paul Sullivan, an international security expert at the National Defense University, said that China views the situation in terms of its long-term impact on the regime’s central power.

“The Chinese most likely have a very long-term perspective on this, and they aren’t going to be one China and two systems anymore,” Sullivan said. “My sense is that they want to completely chew up Hong Kong and make it part of the central part of China, maybe to improve their trading and economic base.”

Charles Lipson, a political science professor at the University of Chicago, said the U.S.’s options to intervene would be limited.

“There’s very little the U.S. can do, should do, or will want to do prior to a major crackdown,” Lipson said. “After which the U.S. will complain mightily but from the point of view of the U.S., there’s essentially nothing that can be done if the Chinese want to crack down on Hong Kong.”

 . . . . . . .



Hong Kong is part of China. There is no real international border between the two places.

There is the remanent of the old British border still in place that China still maintains because they choose to allow Hong Kong to be a special administrative region (SAR) and operate (mostly) with autonomy.
They can remove that any time they choose and roll their army through there legally any time they want.

The concern here is that they are obviously doing it now because they are sick of the protests and are going to crack down on it.

7/31/19 10:46 PM
4/6/19
Posts: 1462

time our CDN gov spit the chinese dick out there mouth