OtherGround Forums USA Abandons Open Skies Treaty

6 days ago
8/20/08
Posts: 5068

Whats the repercussions of this, besides pissing off the allies? Serious question.

 

'This is insane': Democrats and national security experts sound the alarm after Trump administration declares it's abandoning a critical treaty

David Choi

4 hours ago

 

  • The White House's abandonment of the Open Skies Treaty was widely condemned by Democratic lawmakers and national security experts.
  • Michael Hayden, a retired US Air Force general and former National Security Agency director, described it as "insane."
  • Countries that sign the treaty can conduct short-notice observational flights over other signatories to verify the status of each other's military forces, but the US has accused Russia of restricting its access.
  • Some Republicans applauded the withdrawal and called it a "positive step to end America's dependence on dysfunctional and broken treaties."

The White House's move to abandon the Open Skies Treaty, an agreement with European allies and Russia, was widely condemned on Thursday by Democratic lawmakers and national security experts.

The State Department announced it would submit its notice of withdrawal, which starts a six-month countdown until "the United States will no longer be a party" to the treaty with 34 countries that includes Russia, Ukraine, Canada, Netherlands, and Norway. All of these countries can conduct short-notice observational flights over other signatories to verify the status of each other's military forces, but the US has accused Russia of restricting its access.

Democratic lawmakers from the House Armed Services Committee described the move as "a slap in the face to our allies in Europe" that would leave "our deployed forces in the region at risk"

"This decision weakens our national security interests, isolates the United States since the Treaty will continue without us, and abandons a useful tool to hold Russia accountable," Rep. Adam Smith of Washington, the committee's chairman, and Rep. Jim Cooper of Tennessee said in a joint statement.

The lawmakers added that the decision was made without any consultation with Congress and in "blatant violation" of a federal law that requires the Trump administration to signal its intent to withdraw at a minimum of 120 days beforehand.

"This is insane. I was the director of CIA," Michael Hayden, a retired US Air Force general and former National Security Agency director, said in a tweet.

The 1992 Open Skies Treaty was initially signed by the US, Russia, and 22 other countries in an effort to promote security transparency among nations. Countries that are part of the treaty must notify other nations 72 hours in advance of missions to conduct an observational flight for security-related assurances. The host country has one day to respond.

In 2019, a Russian Tu-154 aircraft conducted an observational mission over Great Falls, Montana, and took aerial photographs for several days. The year prior, the US also flew a plane over Ukrainian territory as part of the treaty.

There has been tension between the US and Russia over claims from both countries that the other is violating the treaty.

In 2018, Russian officials accused the US of violating the spirit of the agreement by not approving its aircraft to conduct observational missions, according to Defense News. Russian media outlets also said the US had withdrawn from the treaty, which US officials denied.

The US, in turn, has accused Russia of restricting its flight access. US officials previously accused Russia of violating the treaty by restricting flights in Kaliningrad, a heavily militarized area that is home to short-range missiles.

The State Department said in its statement on Thursday that it may "reconsider our withdrawal" if Russia returned to "full compliance" with the treaty.

"For years, Russia has used the Open Skies Treaty to collect intelligence on civilian infrastructure and other sensitive sites in America, posing an unacceptable risk to our national security," William Evanina, the director of the National Counterintelligence and Security Center, said in a statement.

Republican Sen. Tom Cotton of Arkansas, one of the outspoken supporters of the US withdrawal, described it as a "positive step to end America's dependence on dysfunctional and broken treaties."

"The Open Skies Treaty started life as a good-faith agreement between major powers and died an asset of Russian intelligence," Cotton said in a statement. "For Mr. Putin, the treaty was just another scheme to snatch a military and surveillance advantage over the US and NATO."

Proponents of the treaty have argued that the flights provide the US and its allies, who do not have the same surveillance capabilities, valuable information about Russian military activities.

"Today's announcement is part of a troubling pattern," Arms Control Association Director Daryl Kimball said. "The Open Skies Treaty is not the first and may not be the last nuclear- or conflict-risk reduction agreement this administration has withdrawn from without a viable strategy for replacement."

 

6 days ago
2/4/06
Posts: 14282

Fuck em. Let's war China 

6 days ago
1/1/01
Posts: 15890

We’re abandoning a treaty Russia isn’t following.  If there’s no way to enforce it and others aren’t following it what good is it?

6 days ago
1/7/09
Posts: 4561

Trump did it so it must be good.

- The OG

6 days ago
4/22/17
Posts: 4484
cruedi -

We’re abandoning a treaty Russia isn’t following.  If there’s no way to enforce it and others aren’t following it what good is it?

Canada and Norway will be displeased. Serious shit like that. 

6 days ago
4/7/10
Posts: 9766
Akkadian88 -
cruedi -

We’re abandoning a treaty Russia isn’t following.  If there’s no way to enforce it and others aren’t following it what good is it?

Canada and Norway will be displeased. Serious shit like that. 

Canada and Norway lol

6 days ago
2/14/10
Posts: 13529

Good. Fuck that obsolete nonsense. There's no reason why a foreign military aircraft should be operated over US soil save for a closely controlled training exercise. Our satellite capabilities are sufficient enough that we don't need to rely on this reciprocity with lesser states. Russia has been very one-sided in this agreement, and these people who cry that we "should be the bigger person" while the Russians continually violate the terms of the treaty are just silly.

6 days ago
2/22/13
Posts: 3915
TheDecider -

Trump did it so it must be good.

- The OG

If Dems are against it, it is good.

Edited: 6 days ago
1/1/01
Posts: 48542

wtf is any of those coutries gonna do if we violate their air space?

lmao @ democrats being upset at something Trump did.

as if that wasnt a given. if he signed on, they'd cry why didnt he leave

6 days ago
12/6/07
Posts: 8257
Whats the repercussions of this, besides pissing off the allies? Serious question.

Did you even read the story?
6 days ago
7/9/19
Posts: 1125

What would WWIII look like? 

6 days ago
6/26/06
Posts: 14074
Space Force Global Exospheric Surveillance sees everything anyway.
6 days ago
6/28/10
Posts: 30892
TheDecider -

Trump did it so it must be good.

- The OG

lol. Really? Again, irony.

Trump did so it must be bad

- The OG

6 days ago
4/24/07
Posts: 41992
TheDecider - 

Trump did it so it must be good.

- The OG


So you want Russia to be able to spy on our Military? That's odd, since the lot of you idiots tried to convince us Trump was a Russian agent for years. 

6 days ago
11/19/06
Posts: 955
Horrendous journalists.

It's not a goddamn treaty. A president cannot unilaterally pull the country out of a treaty. Only the Senate can ratify overturn a treaty.

It's a nonbinding agreement. There's a huge difference.
6 days ago
4/22/17
Posts: 4486
cabincreek - Horrendous journalists.

It's not a goddamn treaty. A president cannot unilaterally pull the country out of a treaty. Only the Senate can ratify overturn a treaty.

It's a nonbinding agreement. There's a huge difference.

Weird how the op didn't provide a source, but this is the piece of shit that's always defending china. 

6 days ago
12/17/06
Posts: 84900
IronHands - 

Good. Fuck that obsolete nonsense. There's no reason why a foreign military aircraft should be operated over US soil save for a closely controlled training exercise. Our satellite capabilities are sufficient enough that we don't need to rely on this reciprocity with lesser states. Russia has been very one-sided in this agreement, and these people who cry that we "should be the bigger person" while the Russians continually violate the terms of the treaty are just silly.


.

Edited: 6 days ago
2/3/17
Posts: 513
cruedi -

We’re abandoning a treaty Russia isn’t following.  If there’s no way to enforce it and others aren’t following it what good is it?

Russia is following it, they flew over trumps golf course, thats the problem. 

6 days ago
2/3/17
Posts: 514

This has nothing to do with surveillance, this about nukes and China. Ultimately a net positve for Russia as it weakens NATO. Part of the plan all along. Ya know, russian collusion. 

6 days ago
12/31/19
Posts: 1402

This article is written by a Chink and we have satellites now...

5 days ago
1/3/18
Posts: 6981

Instead of allies, the ones listed should be called Dependents

5 days ago
9/22/16
Posts: 20671
I'd have to look, but I read a series of articles a while back that explained how the Russians weren't even using their allotted flights to check on any American military targets, but instead to track and locate key infrastructure targets. Like junctions critical to internet services and such.

Frankly, fuck Russia, and fuck cooperating with them.
5 days ago
2/22/11
Posts: 20192

It’s pretty much a piece of paper that every country violates. Non-binding type of documentation that makes it look good on paper. Kind of like the nuclear arms treaty...non-binding from a realist perspective. 
 

 

5 days ago
2/22/11
Posts: 20193
cabincreek - Horrendous journalists.

It's not a goddamn treaty. A president cannot unilaterally pull the country out of a treaty. Only the Senate can ratify overturn a treaty.

It's a nonbinding agreement. There's a huge difference.

Yepp 

 

but since orange man did it...it’s bad! 

5 days ago
1/1/01
Posts: 99228

I can't believe Trump is betraying Russia!

 

Get Schiff on it IMMEDIATELY!