OtherGround Forums "We are treating the Wrong Disease" - NYC MD

4/5/20 9:05 PM
2/7/08
Posts: 3244

4/5/20 9:20 PM
1/1/01
Posts: 18105

Well that’s interesting 

4/5/20 9:23 PM
9/13/06
Posts: 27793

It was confusing. He claims the ventilators are doing harm, but says we still need to use them and use more of them. I felt like that video was rushed and would benefit from a retake or two. 

4/5/20 9:26 PM
1/1/01
Posts: 49577

I remember seeing one of the early presentations over a month ago that the disease in severe cases robs the lungs' ability to send oxygen to the blood.  So the effects he is describing would coincide with that.

4/5/20 9:28 PM
1/1/01
Posts: 53599

Subbed for later 

4/5/20 9:30 PM
3/15/06
Posts: 23080
GentileLarryDavid - 

It was confusing. He claims the ventilators are doing harm, but says we still need to use them and use more of them. I felt like that video was rushed and would benefit from a retake or two. 


I think he means use them differently and not for treating pneumonia symptoms, but I guess a different setting to try and deliver oxygen yet not overly stress the lungs.
4/5/20 9:34 PM
10/25/08
Posts: 6656

Interesting

4/5/20 9:34 PM
2/4/09
Posts: 10842

I think he's right but wrong about the ventilators. 

 

Reading about the angiotensin system and ACE2. Seems like there could be an increase of angiotensin precursors from the patients that are taking ARBS or ACEi. 

 

This would lead to an increase in Angiotensin (10) which when ARDS hits apparently reduces the predicted survival outcome than if you didn't have Ang (10). 

 

Now the interesting part is when the body begins to increase Covid production to a point where it could overwhelm ACE2 receptors this would also kill the protective effects that ACE2 gives to lungs. This is where I would expect ARDS to be observed in COVID-2 patients. By this point they may already have an increase in ANG 10 and would predictably be less likley to survive ARDS. 

 

I'm actually trying to be a loser and make power point slides trying to illustate this. I've asked the question on the doctor AMA thread but no response for these questions 

4/5/20 9:36 PM
9/13/06
Posts: 27795
CuddleBug -
GentileLarryDavid - 

It was confusing. He claims the ventilators are doing harm, but says we still need to use them and use more of them. I felt like that video was rushed and would benefit from a retake or two. 


I think he means use them differently and not for treating pneumonia symptoms, but I guess a different setting to try and deliver oxygen yet not overly stress the lungs.

That’s what I gathered as well, it was just convoluted.

4/5/20 9:36 PM
3/15/15
Posts: 13028
in
4/5/20 9:40 PM
8/6/08
Posts: 38710

Virus is disrupting the hemoglobin’s oxygen capacity. It is attacking our BLOOD first, not the lungs. It is NOT a respiratory ailment (primarily), lung breakdown symptoms are a consequence of the attack on blood hemoglobins. Hypoxia is happening BEFORE lungs are affected.

 

4/5/20 9:41 PM
9/13/06
Posts: 27796
NoNeed4aScreenName -

I think he's right but wrong about the ventilators. 

 

Reading about the angiotensin system and ACE2. Seems like there could be an increase of angiotensin precursors from the patients that are taking ARBS or ACEi. 

 

This would lead to an increase in Angiotensin (10) which when ARDS hits apparently reduces the predicted survival outcome than if you didn't have Ang (10). 

 

Now the interesting part is when the body begins to increase Covid production to a point where it could overwhelm ACE2 receptors this would also kill the protective effects that ACE2 gives to lungs. This is where I would expect ARDS to be observed in COVID-2 patients. By this point they may already have an increase in ANG 10 and would predictably be less likley to survive ARDS. 

 

I'm actually trying to be a loser and make power point slides trying to illustate this. I've asked the question on the doctor AMA thread but no response for these questions 

Know your audience 

Edited: 4/5/20 9:43 PM
9/8/02
Posts: 25229
Further proof I would rather listen to the doctors on the front lines than the guys like Fauci over in Washington DC...not saying this guy is spot on, but it's worth considering. Just like it is worth considering HCL, but Dr. Fauci doesn't put much faith in that either, despite the doctors of the world, on the front lines fighting the virus say it work...

With that in mind it is doubtful this guy's video does much to overcome dogma and belief in the "vaccine" that will probably never come in time to help our crisis.
4/5/20 9:49 PM
12/3/12
Posts: 592

In

4/5/20 9:49 PM
2/4/09
Posts: 10843
gokudamus -

Virus is disrupting the hemoglobin’s oxygen capacity. It is attacking our BLOOD first, not the lungs. It is NOT a respiratory ailment (primarily), lung breakdown symptoms are a consequence of the attack on blood hemoglobins. Hypoxia is happening BEFORE lungs are affected.

 

This is interesting unfortunately this is just a predictive modeling study. They haven't done any experimental analysis at the moment to prove that this can occur. 

 

They should hurry up and do some in vitro testing to see if this is another avenue that the virus attacks the host. 

4/5/20 9:51 PM
1/25/04
Posts: 133227

4/5/20 10:09 PM
10/14/03
Posts: 30891

Interesting take, I heard Muh Russia is using machines to oxygenate blood rather than put people on incubators.

BTW the dudes fridge is improperly placed and he also has cups with straws sticking out of them on top.

Practice hygiene Doctor.

4/5/20 10:15 PM
7/31/09
Posts: 20875
Jack Carter -

Great. Now we got ourselves high altitude mountain climbers chiming in.

4/5/20 11:12 PM
1/1/01
Posts: 5810

Well, from the info this doc is saying one might be inclined to say that these patients should be put in a hyperbaric chamber or on ECMO. 

But if it is ARDS and they are using high Fio2's and high PEEP's then the option is to consider High Frequency Jet Ventilation or an Oscillator vent? Sounds crazy but most of the times a doc chooses the mode of ventilation on such factors as ABG results and Chest Xray findings. 

4/5/20 11:41 PM
6/30/07
Posts: 60555
ReneH -

Well, from the info this doc is saying one might be inclined to say that these patients should be put in a hyperbaric chamber or on ECMO. 

But if it is ARDS and they are using high Fio2's and high PEEP's then the option is to consider High Frequency Jet Ventilation or an Oscillator vent? Sounds crazy but most of the times a doc chooses the mode of ventilation on such factors as ABG results and Chest Xray findings. 

I keep hearing very conflicting statements on peep, pips, etc....

4/6/20 12:10 AM
4/27/18
Posts: 2613

funny i read somehting about how HCL stops the replication in the blood cells and thats why its important to staert it early. once it spreads its much harder to fix.

 

4/6/20 12:15 AM
3/1/10
Posts: 11298

The disease is in the Oval Office.


The cure is at the ballot box.

4/6/20 12:31 AM
1/1/01
Posts: 12601

Damn. Sounds like 5G radiation.

 

But there's a good chance what he's saying is not accurate.

 

It's just his take on it.

4/6/20 12:39 AM
9/8/02
Posts: 25241
VTCO - 

The disease is in the Oval Office.


The cure is at the ballot box.


So stammering Joe Biden, who can't even deliver a cogent thought, but wants open borders and higher taxes is the solution?

Imagine 30% unemployment, Biden gets in, and raises taxes and opens the borders up to cheap labor to take even more jobs.

perfect solution.
4/6/20 12:45 AM
3/18/02
Posts: 91930
VTCO - 

The disease is in the Oval Office.


The cure is at the ballot box.


yep, a senile guy who smells kids and is paid off by china

great plan