OtherGround Forums What do you think is biggest problem with the OG?

5/27/19 11:47 PM
1/1/01
Posts: 61013
ryanJ - Been here over 20 years...a few random suggestions:

1. In Memorium section of the site

2. Notifications if your post gets quoted

3. "Like" post (instead of vote ups...maybe even thumbs up/thumbs down on posts)


Those aren't random, they're great:

1. I should have done it looooong ago

2. It's on the list now

3. Coming in next day or so

5/27/19 11:51 PM
6/30/07
Posts: 54484
Kirik -
ryanJ - Been here over 20 years...a few random suggestions:

1. In Memorium section of the site

2. Notifications if your post gets quoted

3. "Like" post (instead of vote ups...maybe even thumbs up/thumbs down on posts)


Those aren't random, they're great:

1. I should have done it looooong ago

2. It's on the list now

3. Coming in next day or so

3 appears to be active

5/27/19 11:53 PM
1/1/01
Posts: 61014
Soup and Beer - 
Fake Pie - 
Average - 
Kirik -
Average - 
Kirik -
pew pew pew - 

getting frozen without knowing why sucks

 

why not sent a private message to let the user know why ?


That's a great question. I have been a mod here for over 20 years now. In the vast, vast, vast, vast majority of cases, people don' tthink they did anything wrong, so it just engenders more argumentation. "Other people do worse ALL the time" is a real common one. I have tried it, but concluded there are not enough hours in day, unfortunately.

Kirik

But it is true. The entire freezing/banning process needs to be clear. Me for example, I know EXACTLY why my first account got banned. No warning. Nothing. Back then I think my account name was changeup, it was a 01 account. 

 

I got banned on a thread that discussed Phil Baroni. People were hating or loving him. My words were: 

 

"Well, if you act like an asshole, you can't be surprised that people think you are one".  It was in a discussion about the person he's chosen to portray in public/the character he was playing. 

 

BAN

 

The mod on that thread obviously was very engaged and actively defending Baroni, and didnt like it. He said I called Phil Baroni an asshole (you remember the rules back then concerning fighter bashing). Which of course I did not. 

 

I had no idea where to go, where to ask for an explanation and so on. After that, there have been COUNTLESS of other cases where people did way worse, but then got frozen for a few days. I was like: WTF?? Frozen? not banned? This exists??? 

 

So yeah Kirik, this is a very shady process and there should be a clear transparent rule together with a transparent process. I never got my account back. 


This is an illustration of exactly why I don't require open moderation.

You were on a foru, that explicitly asked you to post about fighters as if you were speaking face to face. You call Phil Baroni an asshole.

You're banned for it.

And istead of apologizing, you write, as do 99 out of 100 people that violate the TOS, you defend it by arguing that it happened in the context of "a discussion about the person he's chosen to portray in public/the character he was playing."

If people's response to getting bounced was at least once in a while, "Yah, I called the guy and asshole and I knew I was asked not to use that type of language, so my bad," then I would be more transparent. But that never happens, and isn't with you, even now.

Kirik, I'm guessing I failed to explain the situation correctly - or you just skimmed my post. 

I absolutely agree with you and your answer - specially with people not seeing when they did something wrong. Everything you said made sense, but stay with me: I'm 100% sure if you would have been in that thread back then, you'd side with me. I never called a fighter an asshole. I just can't let that stand like this, because I always respected the old OG's rules. 

Let me try to recreate the thread: 

somebody: fuck you all, if Baroni want's to be an asshole, he can! There are enough "goody two shoes" fighters and boy scout fighters! Get off his back, he can portray himself the way he wants and if the character he wants to be is an asshole, that's his right!

me: Well, if he acts like an asshole, then he must be fine when people treat him like he's one. 

 

Does that clear it up a bit Kirik? All I am saying: I never called him an asshole, you would have to willingly (or lazyly) take my quote out of context and ignore that it was based on another post, to think so. 

 

That being said, I'm kinda confused. Did somebody get me a blue name? wtf?


Jesus man you are doing the exact thing he says is the reason why he doesn't bother. You want to pedantically argue to death whether what you did was call Baroni an asshole. He doesn't care. Someone made a call. Some modding will always be subjective, he can't spend his time arguing with the 99% of people that will always take issue and want to have an endless argument with him about it. At the end of the day, it's his forum and he gets to decide and has to let his mods make calls and can't spend all his time going over them all.

Just say "sorry, that's now what I meant at all, my bad" and you would have had that account back. Instead all these years later you still "just can't let that stand like this"--that's the entire problem in a nutshell, people can't be a little contrite and let shit go even if they disagree a bit.

Just my unwelcome 2c. I am sure you'll let me have it now.

It's amazing how many people are so wrapped up in their own self importance that they can't see past their noses.  Your post is an excellent analysis of this guy and is systematic of many posters here.


Thanks guys!

5/27/19 11:55 PM
1/1/01
Posts: 61015
Throwin'Knuckles - 

Ok my suggestions are.

 

 

Bring back some type of vote or like function. Things were more tame around these parts then. I know people are speaking through a muzzle sometimes for acceptance. But in the real world thats how we are as well. We dont go around talking shit to peoples face with no filter in real life. 

 

 

I like the idea of notifications when you are quoted. Seems like this could be done easily. Even the old MSN boards had the function. But Im no IT guy and I dont know what the finacials are at this point.

 

 

Ive never been frozen or banned yet but if I was maybe a code sent via email. Like.. Acct suspended violation #11 or whatever. 

 

We start a TUM.. ( The Ultimate Modder ) Similar to TUF we have a 6 week grueling competition. Some of the greatest MOD prospects in the history of MMA.TV will compete for a chance to be crowned the TUM winner. This MOD will be awarded a huge hammer to combat trolls and the internets slimiest characters. 

 

 

 

 


I appreciate the feedback, and am already acting on some of it.

5/27/19 11:58 PM
1/1/01
Posts: 61016
STD Machine - 

I'm afraid it's too late, this place is dead


1,600+ replies on how to improve the site indicates otherwise to me.

5/27/19 11:59 PM
1/1/01
Posts: 61017
pew pew pew - 
Soup and Beer - 
Fake Pie - 
Average - 
Kirik -
Average - 
Kirik -
pew pew pew - 

getting frozen without knowing why sucks

 

why not sent a private message to let the user know why ?


That's a great question. I have been a mod here for over 20 years now. In the vast, vast, vast, vast majority of cases, people don' tthink they did anything wrong, so it just engenders more argumentation. "Other people do worse ALL the time" is a real common one. I have tried it, but concluded there are not enough hours in day, unfortunately.

Kirik

But it is true. The entire freezing/banning process needs to be clear. Me for example, I know EXACTLY why my first account got banned. No warning. Nothing. Back then I think my account name was changeup, it was a 01 account. 

 

I got banned on a thread that discussed Phil Baroni. People were hating or loving him. My words were: 

 

"Well, if you act like an asshole, you can't be surprised that people think you are one".  It was in a discussion about the person he's chosen to portray in public/the character he was playing. 

 

BAN

 

The mod on that thread obviously was very engaged and actively defending Baroni, and didnt like it. He said I called Phil Baroni an asshole (you remember the rules back then concerning fighter bashing). Which of course I did not. 

 

I had no idea where to go, where to ask for an explanation and so on. After that, there have been COUNTLESS of other cases where people did way worse, but then got frozen for a few days. I was like: WTF?? Frozen? not banned? This exists??? 

 

So yeah Kirik, this is a very shady process and there should be a clear transparent rule together with a transparent process. I never got my account back. 


This is an illustration of exactly why I don't require open moderation.

You were on a foru, that explicitly asked you to post about fighters as if you were speaking face to face. You call Phil Baroni an asshole.

You're banned for it.

And istead of apologizing, you write, as do 99 out of 100 people that violate the TOS, you defend it by arguing that it happened in the context of "a discussion about the person he's chosen to portray in public/the character he was playing."

If people's response to getting bounced was at least once in a while, "Yah, I called the guy and asshole and I knew I was asked not to use that type of language, so my bad," then I would be more transparent. But that never happens, and isn't with you, even now.

Kirik, I'm guessing I failed to explain the situation correctly - or you just skimmed my post. 

I absolutely agree with you and your answer - specially with people not seeing when they did something wrong. Everything you said made sense, but stay with me: I'm 100% sure if you would have been in that thread back then, you'd side with me. I never called a fighter an asshole. I just can't let that stand like this, because I always respected the old OG's rules. 

Let me try to recreate the thread: 

somebody: fuck you all, if Baroni want's to be an asshole, he can! There are enough "goody two shoes" fighters and boy scout fighters! Get off his back, he can portray himself the way he wants and if the character he wants to be is an asshole, that's his right!

me: Well, if he acts like an asshole, then he must be fine when people treat him like he's one. 

 

Does that clear it up a bit Kirik? All I am saying: I never called him an asshole, you would have to willingly (or lazyly) take my quote out of context and ignore that it was based on another post, to think so. 

 

That being said, I'm kinda confused. Did somebody get me a blue name? wtf?


Jesus man you are doing the exact thing he says is the reason why he doesn't bother. You want to pedantically argue to death whether what you did was call Baroni an asshole. He doesn't care. Someone made a call. Some modding will always be subjective, he can't spend his time arguing with the 99% of people that will always take issue and want to have an endless argument with him about it. At the end of the day, it's his forum and he gets to decide and has to let his mods make calls and can't spend all his time going over them all.

Just say "sorry, that's now what I meant at all, my bad" and you would have had that account back. Instead all these years later you still "just can't let that stand like this"--that's the entire problem in a nutshell, people can't be a little contrite and let shit go even if they disagree a bit.

Just my unwelcome 2c. I am sure you'll let me have it now.

It's amazing how many people are so wrapped up in their own self importance that they can't see past their noses.  Your post is an excellent analysis of this guy and is systematic of many posters here.


ok, i see kiriks point. most people will want to argue semantics.

but at least that guy knows why.

in my case i had posted many questionable things, i dont know which one was over the line

"in my case i had posted many questionable things"

5/28/19 12:02 AM
1/1/01
Posts: 61018
ducks18 - 


Kirik, some more feedback. wouldn't it be much better when you ignore someone to not see anything at all? it's kind of annoying seeing this big block in chats, but it's way better than watching PEW PEW doxxing people. thank you

Yah, redoing that and opening it up to all is on the short list.

5/28/19 12:03 AM
1/1/01
Posts: 61019
The_Pundits_Ghost - 

Not that they are functional to my knowledge, but it is far too easy to accidently hit the vote buttons on the iOS app. I am constantly up an down voting people by accident. 


Thank you!

I'd be grateful to know if other people are experiencing similar issues?

5/28/19 12:10 AM
1/1/01
Posts: 61020
MountainMedic - 

VU/VD now visible on posts?

 

Interesting


Yah, it's the beginning of hopefully a big change.

 

5/28/19 12:19 AM
2/27/13
Posts: 1251

It just took me numerous tries to log in, kept taking me to the mixedmartialarts.com front page instead of the login page.

 

The vote ups/downs on the posts does appear to be working now though.

5/28/19 12:30 AM
1/1/01
Posts: 19081
Banjaxo -

It just took me numerous tries to log in, kept taking me to the mixedmartialarts.com front page instead of the login page.

 

The vote ups/downs on the posts does appear to be working now though.

Had some small issues with new login page. Should be worked out

5/28/19 12:32 AM
6/30/07
Posts: 54491
Kirik -
The_Pundits_Ghost - 

Not that they are functional to my knowledge, but it is far too easy to accidently hit the vote buttons on the iOS app. I am constantly up an down voting people by accident. 


Thank you!

I'd be grateful to know if other people are experiencing similar issues?

On chrome phone browser and app VU can just happen but VD requires a second "are you sure" window.

5/28/19 12:37 AM
12/22/10
Posts: 21661

I still see many canadians posting on a regular basis. 

Is the day of the rake coming or not, kirk genesis? 

- black Doug

 

5/28/19 12:41 AM
2/27/13
Posts: 1253
Chris -
Banjaxo -

It just took me numerous tries to log in, kept taking me to the mixedmartialarts.com front page instead of the login page.

 

The vote ups/downs on the posts does appear to be working now though.

Had some small issues with new login page. Should be worked out

Thanks, I noticed it was different when i finally got to it.

 

Also thanks for being active on this thread (Kirik too), and for implementing fixes and improvements. For a long time it has felt like there was nothing being done and no fucks being given about the issues on the site.

5/28/19 12:47 AM
2/27/13
Posts: 1254

LOL new one, my antivirus (NOD) just put up a warning.

 

It had a problem with dco-assets.everestads.net, which I assume is something from an advertiser.

5/28/19 12:52 AM
1/1/01
Posts: 19082
MountainMedic -
Kirik -
The_Pundits_Ghost - 

Not that they are functional to my knowledge, but it is far too easy to accidently hit the vote buttons on the iOS app. I am constantly up an down voting people by accident. 


Thank you!

I'd be grateful to know if other people are experiencing similar issues?

On chrome phone browser and app VU can just happen but VD requires a second "are you sure" window.

that has always been the case and on purpose. Too many accidental down votes.

5/28/19 1:43 AM
6/8/08
Posts: 12163

I wont talk about me now, I've said my piece.

Going over this thread some themes become apparent. 

In short, Kirik you ignore any Form of critisism (while pointing out that that is what everybody else does who is critisizing you or the OG) plus the OG is perfect and what is not, is under construction (for 10 years).

You too, have changes alot over the past 20 years. And not just grown. The forum in General, seems to have made a similar Transformation like the Sport itself. Same goes for the Members. 

From underground (hence the Name) Passion for most, wanting to grow because isnt it the best thing (Sport, Forum) in the world, to all of a sudden commercial power house. The UFC made the transition from amateur to amateur with a ton of money to well oiled super company with great, professional Presentation and Organisation. 

The Underground never made that last part of the transition. It's a huge Sack of money, but the showers and toilets barely have been upgraded.

 

 

5/28/19 1:47 AM
6/8/08
Posts: 12164
ducks18 -
Average -
evh -
Average -
Kirik -
Average - 
Kirik -
pew pew pew - 

getting frozen without knowing why sucks

 

why not sent a private message to let the user know why ?

 

That's a great question. I have been a mod here for over 20 years now. In the vast, vast, vast, vast majority of cases, people don' tthink they did anything wrong, so it just engenders more argumentation. "Other people do worse ALL the time" is a real common one. I have tried it, but concluded there are not enough hours in day, unfortunately.

Kirik

But it is true. The entire freezing/banning process needs to be clear. Me for example, I know EXACTLY why my first account got banned. No warning. Nothing. Back then I think my account name was changeup, it was a 01 account. 

 

I got banned on a thread that discussed Phil Baroni. People were hating or loving him. My words were: 

 

"Well, if you act like an asshole, you can't be surprised that people think you are one".  It was in a discussion about the person he's chosen to portray in public/the character he was playing. 

 

BAN

 

The mod on that thread obviously was very engaged and actively defending Baroni, and didnt like it. He said I called Phil Baroni an asshole (you remember the rules back then concerning fighter bashing). Which of course I did not. 

 

I had no idea where to go, where to ask for an explanation and so on. After that, there have been COUNTLESS of other cases where people did way worse, but then got frozen for a few days. I was like: WTF?? Frozen? not banned? This exists??? 

 

So yeah Kirik, this is a very shady process and there should be a clear transparent rule together with a transparent process. I never got my account back. 

 

This is an illustration of exactly why I don't require open moderation.

You were on a foru, that explicitly asked you to post about fighters as if you were speaking face to face. You call Phil Baroni an asshole.

You're banned for it.

And istead of apologizing, you write, as do 99 out of 100 people that violate the TOS, you defend it by arguing that it happened in the context of "a discussion about the person he's chosen to portray in public/the character he was playing."

If people's response to getting bounced was at least once in a while, "Yah, I called the guy and asshole and I knew I was asked not to use that type of language, so my bad," then I would be more transparent. But that never happens, and isn't with you, even now.

Kirik, I'm guessing I failed to explain the situation correctly - or you just skimmed my post. 

I absolutely agree with you and your answer - specially with people not seeing when they did something wrong. Everything you said made sense, but stay with me: I'm 100% sure if you would have been in that thread back then, you'd side with me. I never called a fighter an asshole. I just can't let that stand like this, because I always respected the old OG's rules. 

Let me try to recreate the thread: 

somebody: fuck you all, if Baroni want's to be an asshole, he can! There are enough "goody two shoes" fighters and boy scout fighters! Get off his back, he can portray himself the way he wants and if the character he wants to be is an asshole, that's his right!

me: Well, if he acts like an asshole, then he must be fine when people treat him like he's one. 

 

Does that clear it up a bit Kirik? All I am saying: I never called him an asshole, you would have to willingly (or lazyly) take my quote out of context and ignore that it was based on another post, to think so. 

 

That being said, I'm kinda confused. Did somebody get me a blue name? wtf?

it doesn't matter what you did or who thinks you did what. freezes and bans should come with an explanation of the offending conduct or else they are pointless in the long term. this is common sense forum stuff but doesn't seem to be understood here which is why a lot of users have conflict with the mods

This is the actual point of my initial post and I agree. 

Have you ever thought of it this way.... this was the ONLY website/Forum that actively had fighters, and potentially future celebrities and millionaires posting among us.  Pro fighters should be treated with more respect than the average shootfightermike.  There is a reason EVERY pro fighter left this website.   Mike Swick said it perfectly.. "the UG is like skating on thin ice.  You just never know.  You could have the best post and replies and think you are doing just great.. then BOOM, you nail a crack in the ice and land face first."  Not many fighters are going to want to skate this pond again...

Everything you just said is how I've always viewed it. I never spoke out about the fighter bashing rule, in contrary. I've always been supportive of it and still am. In fact, it should be MORE enforeced. The past 2-4 years, this rule has started to disappear. If I read the UG after a UFC event, I'm not even sure if this rule still exists. 

5/28/19 4:07 AM
6/30/07
Posts: 54498
Chris -
MountainMedic -
Kirik -
The_Pundits_Ghost - 

Not that they are functional to my knowledge, but it is far too easy to accidently hit the vote buttons on the iOS app. I am constantly up an down voting people by accident. 


Thank you!

I'd be grateful to know if other people are experiencing similar issues?

On chrome phone browser and app VU can just happen but VD requires a second "are you sure" window.

that has always been the case and on purpose. Too many accidental down votes.

Was just answering Ks question.

5/28/19 4:32 AM
9/24/07
Posts: 4318
Fake Pie -
Kirik -
MountainMedic - 
Kirik -
pew pew pew - 

getting frozen without knowing why sucks

 

why not sent a private message to let the user know why ?


That's a great question. I have been a mod here for over 20 years now. In the vast, vast, vast, vast majority of cases, people don' tthink they did anything wrong, so it just engenders more argumentation. "Other people do worse ALL the time" is a real common one. I have tried it, but concluded there are not enough hours in day, unfortunately.

Kirik- A part of my frustrations was based on the terrible mod tools we had.

 

Behind the curtains on the mod group I'd say about a third of our threads were some version of "______ wants to know why he was frozen, nothing in the log, who did it?"

 

One of the things that really started to fester with me was the absolute lack of accountability amongst the mods. There was a small group of us that really tried to sign our work every time and in addition we'd send PMs explaining the action. I always respected the way Rick would let you know he killed a post. As I mod I found out quickly just how much of a pain in the ass it was.

 

You and I chatted once about deciding not to incorporate the mod panel in the app due to cost, which I understood. But it added yet another layer of barrier to moderation. When the world started doing everything on their phone instead of their desktop the majority of mods (known and unknown) really stopped doing much besides just being users of the forum. Used to drive me nuts when a consistent 3 or 4 folks would constantly post in the mod group "can someone do something about ____ thread, away from my computer right now". We're ALL away from a computer right now, it's 10 at night! Me or Hughes or menchen or sagiv would then go through the 37 steps necessary to deal with the offense using our phones. But this is apparently too much effort for a few of your highly respected mods.

 

So....

You have far too many mods, most of which do literally nothing beyond pointing at a problem and saying "somebody out to do something about that" and a system and culture that doesn't support any sense of accountability.

 

De-mod everyone and start over. 

Make every mod do what you and Steph told me to do in the beginning and make it policy that ALL mods post in red.

Make the team accountable for their actions.

Create a script that won't allow one to complete a mod action without entering a justification and auto signature that event.

 

Re-red Hughes, mench, and myself and leave us out of the bullshit. We were your most active mods, we quietly did the work.

I was intentionally out front and probably too transparent with my actions because I thought the members deserved to see how the sausage gets made. I still believe that's the way to do it and I believe that the users of this site agreed.

Bring back the Disbeliever school of "smells like a recycle, ban immediately".

We are drowning in an outhouse of 5 or 6 guys with multiples that simply won't go away.

Brand new blue shouldn't be automatically approved, and we shouldn't sweat killing those brand new accts. That has always been the troll road to a new acct.

New accts should be post limited. Say, 5 a day, and not allowed to start more than 1 thread per day for 3-6 months. That right there would derail 75% of the garbage that drove off customers in the first place.

 

And finally, spellcheck your articles!!!!! Several of us volunteered to proof your copy before you posted but you always go freebird and post up shit that was embarrassingly difficult to defend. Your revenue stream is dependent upon these articles, it would be worth it to you to stipend a few mods to preform this function.


I super appreciate your feedback man!

A script to require some explanation is a very sound idea.

It doesn't bother me that some mods don't moderate much for long periods. They are all people who have shown good judgement on the site, and are unpaid. So any volunteering is appreciated, without a threshold.

Some kind of tiered posting process is under discussion.

Many times accusations of returned troll are unfounded. I'd rather let several through, than bounce one person who isn't.

We did a technology solution for spelling, and I think it is a monster improvement. If there any spelling errors on the front page, let me know if you have a mind do?

You know there are people who openly admit to being returned posters? 

And see, this to me is absolute crap. There's plenty of known (and admitted) offenders that fit this bill, but rather than do the legwork of rooting out ouis particular blight, we're all supposed to sit back and suffer them because there's a 1% chance they might not be an alt? Bullshit, that's taking the easy road (and not to mention the best-paying option, natch) and it's a fucking cop-out.

If you won't enforce the TOS about this, don't fucking have it. It's disingenuous at best, an outright lie at worst. 

5/28/19 6:44 AM
9/19/04
Posts: 15218
Kirik -
STD Machine - 

I'm afraid it's too late, this place is dead


1,600+ replies on how to improve the site indicates otherwise to me.

I hope so. I think the voting system will cause people to create better threads

5/28/19 7:27 AM
6/8/08
Posts: 12171
STD Machine -
Kirik -
STD Machine - 

I'm afraid it's too late, this place is dead


1,600+ replies on how to improve the site indicates otherwise to me.

I hope so. I think the voting system will cause people to create better threads

Or some will just band together, and group upvote every thread of their "team". Where some "teams" will do this way more thouroughly than others. 

 

Let's hope for the better version. 

5/28/19 7:56 AM
2/6/18
Posts: 52

Not the biggest problem but, it would be nice if the app allowed more threads. I run out of stuff to read.

5/28/19 8:50 AM
1/5/11
Posts: 17910
Kirik -
choadler - 

Kirill, could I put in a nice request? I want to see Hockey get his gold name. What he did was easily the best shout out to the og ever. It was comedy at its finest.

 

If you saw it live, and know the tale, you would agree Hockey deserves a gold name.

 

Is it not being done to spite the OG, or is it perhaps a technical issue to accomplish it?

 

As far as what is right with this place, Hockey, Gritty, TFK pescadero, MBN, soup nazi. All good contributors and seemingly good people.


I asked once about getting a pink sn for a friend's coach, but apparently technically it was a lot of work.

To be honest, I can live with this answer.

 

It's better than the answer of "We never said we would give him one" from years ago.

 

I don't think aim overstating it when I say that Hockys antics during that Anderson Silva fight  (and after with the brilliant view from hotel room thread) was a defining moment for the OG. Quite possibly best og moment of all time, and many missed it. I don't think he was ever rewarded enough from this site, and I thought a gold would be suitable. I still do, but I can rationalise a technical difficulty with giving a gold.

 

Is it really that hard though? Can't fathom why it would be a programming issue. Should be fairly straightforward. He does deserve it 100%.

5/28/19 9:11 AM
6/14/12
Posts: 2711

I support giving hocky his gold name.