OtherGround Forums Why Do The Lefties Believe That Poor People...

5 days ago
2/5/06
Posts: 40839
are victims?



First of all, being poor in the US is relative...they aren't really poor in the historical context.

Yes, there are people down on their luck and maybe in a position that isn't entirely their fault,....but the vast majority are poor from their own decisions. If you can't get a roof over your head, food and reliable transportation whether it be public like a bus or subway/train......it's over 90% most likely to be your own damn fault.

Why do lefties act like they are some sort of victim?
5 days ago
12/5/17
Posts: 10642
Not sure I'd agree with how you characterize it... but if you're genuinely asking the question and not trying to make a statement: there's a body of intellectual thought that informs liberal ideology, just as their is a body of intellectual thought that informs your own ideology.

On the left -- they are more likely to take into account things like adverse childhood experiences lowering the probability that someone will be successful, capable of overcoming psychological problems, coping with stress, and so on in order to perform as well at a job as some others.

& they might take into account cycles of poverty due to lack of education. Even something like simple childhood literacy -- parents reading to young children on a daily basis is proven to dramatically increase the likelihood that the child will perform will on standardized tests in the 3rd grade > which is the strongest indication that they'll perform well throughout the rest of their education, and naturally excel in the real world post-education.

So -- in short... the liberal mind is more inclined to evaluate multiple variables. Whereas the conservative mind is more inclined to see everything as a result of effort and free-will.
5 days ago
11/19/05
Posts: 42621

If you make 2.00 or more per day, you are richer then 5 BILLION human citizens of the world. 

 

So are you really poor in America? 

5 days ago
2/4/07
Posts: 32694

The left knows that poor people are victims because they are the ones victimizing them

Edited: 5 days ago
1/25/04
Posts: 134407
Because they need to create a victim mentality among the populace in order to gain and hold onto power.
5 days ago
1/24/03
Posts: 512
If you do a thought experiment and imagine genetically identical baby twins, place one in a family in Los Altos Ca (mean income $248K) and place one to a family in Pine Ridge (mean income $7,700).

The babies are start equally healthy, innocent, capable, curious and happy.

The outcomes for the two people are likely to be very different due to factors like educational opportunities , stability of environment, and so on.

5 days ago
1/1/01
Posts: 10614

When an OGer presents a statistic it's over 90% likely to be based on purely subjective opinion.

5 days ago
5/10/04
Posts: 20208
Pumpkin Spice Lazarus - Not sure I'd agree with how you characterize it... but if you're genuinely asking the question and not trying to make a statement: there's a body of intellectual thought that informs liberal ideology, just as their is a body of intellectual thought that informs your own ideology.

On the left -- they are more likely to take into account things like adverse childhood experiences lowering the probability that someone will be successful, capable of overcoming psychological problems, coping with stress, and so on in order to perform as well at a job as some others.

& they might take into account cycles of poverty due to lack of education. Even something like simple childhood literacy -- parents reading to young children on a daily basis is proven to dramatically increase the likelihood that the child will perform will on standardized tests in the 3rd grade > which is the strongest indication that they'll perform well throughout the rest of their education, and naturally excel in the real world post-education.

So -- in short... the liberal mind is more inclined to evaluate multiple variables. Whereas the conservative mind is more inclined to see everything as a result of effort and free-will.



Valid points...


The problem is, the left uses childhood problems, broken homes, poor education, etc.. as a kind of excuse.
Then they turn it around and attempt to put the blame everywhere else, such as rich people, racists who lived in previous centuries, etc.

If a person is indeed born into an underprivileged situation -- wouldn't the "conservative" outlook you speak of, tend to be more beneficial for that person?

It seeks to me that a more liberal outlook, tends to enable people who are struggling, by encouraging them to blame the world.
A person who is blameless might be more justified in accepting the status quo -- and even taking it further to justify poor decisions or criminal behavior.


Obviously this is a rabbit hole of a subject, where variables, exceptions, and outliers are endless.

That said..
Maybe it's better to see both sides of it, instead of clinging to an "ideology".




5 days ago
5/10/04
Posts: 20209
LikesToTrain - If you do a thought experiment and imagine genetically identical baby twins, place one in a family in Los Altos Ca (mean income $248K) and place one to a family in Pine Ridge (mean income $7,700).

The babies are start equally healthy, innocent, capable, curious and happy.

The outcomes for the two people are likely to be very different due to factors like educational opportunities , stability of environment, and so on.




There are plenty of "privelaged" suburban kids who grew up to be lazy stoners, and are all but unemployable in a true professional environment.

Plenty of poor kids who grew up appreciating what little they had, and were driven to become something better.


There are lessons to be learned from both sides.



Just saying.
5 days ago
12/5/17
Posts: 10644
LikesToTrain - If you do a thought experiment and imagine genetically identical baby twins, place one in a family in Los Altos Ca (mean income $248K) and place one to a family in Pine Ridge (mean income $7,700).

The babies are start equally healthy, innocent, capable, curious and happy.

The outcomes for the two people are likely to be very different due to factors like educational opportunities , stability of environment, and so on.

Correct. & this is not absolute, but a matter of probability. When research calls for "lefty" policy the idea is typically to impact probability. You'll still have a million men who like to testify about how hard they had it, how they overcame it, and how everyone should be like them. & you'll still have those who had every environmental advantage and managed to fuck it all up.

5 days ago
2/5/06
Posts: 40843
Pumpkin Spice Lazarus - Not sure I'd agree with how you characterize it... but if you're genuinely asking the question and not trying to make a statement: there's a body of intellectual thought that informs liberal ideology, just as their is a body of intellectual thought that informs your own ideology.

On the left -- they are more likely to take into account things like adverse childhood experiences lowering the probability that someone will be successful, capable of overcoming psychological problems, coping with stress, and so on in order to perform as well at a job as some others.

& they might take into account cycles of poverty due to lack of education. Even something like simple childhood literacy -- parents reading to young children on a daily basis is proven to dramatically increase the likelihood that the child will perform will on standardized tests in the 3rd grade > which is the strongest indication that they'll perform well throughout the rest of their education, and naturally excel in the real world post-education.

So -- in short... the liberal mind is more inclined to evaluate multiple variables. Whereas the conservative mind is more inclined to see everything as a result of effort and free-will.

Conservatives are generally higher in conscientiousness

Liberals are generally higher in openness


Basically, liberals are very good at identifying issues and being compassionate of those issues....they aren't so good at fixing them.

To use your example of the reasons for "poverty". You aren't seeing the left actively trying to resolve the problems you identified...like promoting the family unit and the focus on child rearing. Instead, they try to fix it at the end point with a more welfare approach after the fact, not at the root with a more structured ethics approach.

5 days ago
5/9/06
Posts: 30830
Savitar -

When an OGer presents a statistic it's over 90% likely to be based on purely subjective opinion.

The ole Chael Sonnen theory.  85% of his percentage based statistics are 99.5% a figment of his imagination.  But They sound great in effort to support whatever point he is trying to get over.

Edited: 5 days ago
1/25/07
Posts: 3477
CaptainWoody -
Pumpkin Spice Lazarus - Not sure I'd agree with how you characterize it... but if you're genuinely asking the question and not trying to make a statement: there's a body of intellectual thought that informs liberal ideology, just as their is a body of intellectual thought that informs your own ideology.

On the left -- they are more likely to take into account things like adverse childhood experiences lowering the probability that someone will be successful, capable of overcoming psychological problems, coping with stress, and so on in order to perform as well at a job as some others.

& they might take into account cycles of poverty due to lack of education. Even something like simple childhood literacy -- parents reading to young children on a daily basis is proven to dramatically increase the likelihood that the child will perform will on standardized tests in the 3rd grade > which is the strongest indication that they'll perform well throughout the rest of their education, and naturally excel in the real world post-education.

So -- in short... the liberal mind is more inclined to evaluate multiple variables. Whereas the conservative mind is more inclined to see everything as a result of effort and free-will.

Conservatives are generally higher in conscientiousness

Liberals are generally higher in openness


Basically, liberals are very good at identifying issues and being compassionate of those issues....they aren't so good at fixing them.

To use your example of the reasons for "poverty". You aren't seeing the left actively trying to resolve the problems you identified...like promoting the family unit and the focus on child rearing. Instead, they try to fix it at the end point with a more welfare approach after the fact, not at the root with a more structured ethics approach.

That's not true.

 

 

The American nanny state is an abortion of policy that both parties support despite it not making sense to either ideology.

 

All of of the most liberal countries don't have a problem with welfare infrastructure or poverty due to socialism raising the quality of life for the middle and lower The USA has a broken system.

5 days ago
2/5/06
Posts: 40844
Thelonious - 
CaptainWoody -
Pumpkin Spice Lazarus - Not sure I'd agree with how you characterize it... but if you're genuinely asking the question and not trying to make a statement: there's a body of intellectual thought that informs liberal ideology, just as their is a body of intellectual thought that informs your own ideology.

On the left -- they are more likely to take into account things like adverse childhood experiences lowering the probability that someone will be successful, capable of overcoming psychological problems, coping with stress, and so on in order to perform as well at a job as some others.

& they might take into account cycles of poverty due to lack of education. Even something like simple childhood literacy -- parents reading to young children on a daily basis is proven to dramatically increase the likelihood that the child will perform will on standardized tests in the 3rd grade > which is the strongest indication that they'll perform well throughout the rest of their education, and naturally excel in the real world post-education.

So -- in short... the liberal mind is more inclined to evaluate multiple variables. Whereas the conservative mind is more inclined to see everything as a result of effort and free-will.

Conservatives are generally higher in conscientiousness

Liberals are generally higher in openness


Basically, liberals are very good at identifying issues and being compassionate of those issues....they aren't so good at fixing them.

To use your example of the reasons for "poverty". You aren't seeing the left actively trying to resolve the problems you identified...like promoting the family unit and the focus on child rearing. Instead, they try to fix it at the end point with a more welfare approach after the fact, not at the root with a more structured ethics approach.

That's not true.

 

 

The American nanny state is an abortion of policy that both parties support despite it not making sense to either ideology.

 

All of of the most liberal countries don't have a problem with welfare infrastructure or poverty due to socialism raising the quality of life for the middle and lower The USA has a broken system.


"due to socialism raising the quality of life for the middle and lower "

5 days ago
12/17/06
Posts: 84912
Fighting - 

If you make 2.00 or more per day, you are richer then 5 BILLION human citizens of the world. 

 

So are you really poor in America? 


Nailed it.

Here's a good place to start...

If you've got enough to cover a monthly iPhone bill, you're not fucking poor. You just made stupid financial decisions.

-Sent from my cheapo 70dollar tablet cuz I'm smart enough to save my goddamn money.

Edited: 5 days ago
12/17/06
Posts: 84913

Here's another...

If you've got color coordinated outfits for the sole purpose of peacockin on bitches... You're not fucking poor.

People who don't have disposable income but live like they do? Yeah. Those are called morons. Doesn't matter if it's Jethro driving a 150k Ford he can't afford or Jerome driving an Escalade he can't afford. Retards are retards are retards.

5 days ago
2/5/06
Posts: 40845
Altofsky - 
Fighting - 

If you make 2.00 or more per day, you are richer then 5 BILLION human citizens of the world. 

 

So are you really poor in America? 


Nailed it.

Here's a good place to start...

If you've got enough to cover a monthly iPhone bill, you're not fucking poor. You just made stupid financial decisions.

-Sent from my cheapo 70dollar tablet cuz I'm smart enough to save my goddamn money.


That's why I said it's relative in the US.

I'm poor as fuck compared to a lot of people and that's what people are basing their lives on. They aren't actually living in poverty, they're living in poor decisions

5 days ago
12/17/06
Posts: 84914
CaptainWoody - 
Altofsky - 
Fighting - 

If you make 2.00 or more per day, you are richer then 5 BILLION human citizens of the world. 

 

So are you really poor in America? 


Nailed it.

Here's a good place to start...

If you've got enough to cover a monthly iPhone bill, you're not fucking poor. You just made stupid financial decisions.

-Sent from my cheapo 70dollar tablet cuz I'm smart enough to save my goddamn money.


That's why I said it's relative in the US.

I'm poor as fuck compared to a lot of people and that's what people are basing their lives on. They aren't actually living in poverty, they're living in poor decisions


Yup. Agree 100%.

5 days ago
10/8/13
Posts: 4022

Personal accountability and responsibility doesn't exist to Progressives on the left.

Edited: 5 days ago
1/25/07
Posts: 3482
CaptainWoody -
Thelonious - 
CaptainWoody -
Pumpkin Spice Lazarus - Not sure I'd agree with how you characterize it... but if you're genuinely asking the question and not trying to make a statement: there's a body of intellectual thought that informs liberal ideology, just as their is a body of intellectual thought that informs your own ideology.

On the left -- they are more likely to take into account things like adverse childhood experiences lowering the probability that someone will be successful, capable of overcoming psychological problems, coping with stress, and so on in order to perform as well at a job as some others.

& they might take into account cycles of poverty due to lack of education. Even something like simple childhood literacy -- parents reading to young children on a daily basis is proven to dramatically increase the likelihood that the child will perform will on standardized tests in the 3rd grade > which is the strongest indication that they'll perform well throughout the rest of their education, and naturally excel in the real world post-education.

So -- in short... the liberal mind is more inclined to evaluate multiple variables. Whereas the conservative mind is more inclined to see everything as a result of effort and free-will.

Conservatives are generally higher in conscientiousness

Liberals are generally higher in openness


Basically, liberals are very good at identifying issues and being compassionate of those issues....they aren't so good at fixing them.

To use your example of the reasons for "poverty". You aren't seeing the left actively trying to resolve the problems you identified...like promoting the family unit and the focus on child rearing. Instead, they try to fix it at the end point with a more welfare approach after the fact, not at the root with a more structured ethics approach.

That's not true.

 

 

The American nanny state is an abortion of policy that both parties support despite it not making sense to either ideology.

 

All of of the most liberal countries don't have a problem with welfare infrastructure or poverty due to socialism raising the quality of life for the middle and lower The USA has a broken system.

 

"due to socialism raising the quality of life for the middle and lower "

Nice gif but it's demonstrably and empircally true.

 

 

All the socialist countries aren't nanny states and have the highest quality of life. So it's not a liberal problem, it's a capitalist problem. The ultra rich need the ultra poor to maintain their social position, paying out to keep them in that position is a minor expense.

5 days ago
2/5/06
Posts: 40846

^which ones, specifically.


This will be good.

5 days ago
6/6/02
Posts: 19862
LikesToTrain - If you do a thought experiment and imagine genetically identical baby twins, place one in a family in Los Altos Ca (mean income $248K) and place one to a family in Pine Ridge (mean income $7,700).

The babies are start equally healthy, innocent, capable, curious and happy.

The outcomes for the two people are likely to be very different due to factors like educational opportunities , stability of environment, and so on.

Most of the immigrants who come to US are poor.

 

They have to learn English and somehow still succeed in life. 

 

US is still a land of opportunity. All it takes is a bit of work and effort. 

5 days ago
9/20/19
Posts: 2756

I think most people wildly overestimate their individual abilities and how they contributed to their success or lack there of. 

5 days ago
5/10/04
Posts: 20210
Thelonious - 
CaptainWoody -
Pumpkin Spice Lazarus - Not sure I'd agree with how you characterize it... but if you're genuinely asking the question and not trying to make a statement: there's a body of intellectual thought that informs liberal ideology, just as their is a body of intellectual thought that informs your own ideology.

On the left -- they are more likely to take into account things like adverse childhood experiences lowering the probability that someone will be successful, capable of overcoming psychological problems, coping with stress, and so on in order to perform as well at a job as some others.

& they might take into account cycles of poverty due to lack of education. Even something like simple childhood literacy -- parents reading to young children on a daily basis is proven to dramatically increase the likelihood that the child will perform will on standardized tests in the 3rd grade > which is the strongest indication that they'll perform well throughout the rest of their education, and naturally excel in the real world post-education.

So -- in short... the liberal mind is more inclined to evaluate multiple variables. Whereas the conservative mind is more inclined to see everything as a result of effort and free-will.

Conservatives are generally higher in conscientiousness

Liberals are generally higher in openness


Basically, liberals are very good at identifying issues and being compassionate of those issues....they aren't so good at fixing them.

To use your example of the reasons for "poverty". You aren't seeing the left actively trying to resolve the problems you identified...like promoting the family unit and the focus on child rearing. Instead, they try to fix it at the end point with a more welfare approach after the fact, not at the root with a more structured ethics approach.

That's not true.

 

 

The American nanny state is an abortion of policy that both parties support despite it not making sense to either ideology.

 

All of of the most liberal countries don't have a problem with welfare infrastructure or poverty due to socialism raising the quality of life for the middle and lower The USA has a broken system.




Wow.


Lol
5 days ago
4/9/16
Posts: 2655

If you can't make it in the United States you are either not trying at all or have terrible decision making skills. It's no one else's fault.