OtherGround Forums Why has support for socialism grown in US?

3/3/20 9:21 PM
8/26/05
Posts: 14244
KingMartyrJack - 

Image may contain: possible text that says 'Norway Democratic Socialism United States Unfettered Capitalism of 81.7 years. Infant mortality 2 per 1,000 births. murder 0.51 per 100,000. Incarcerations: $75 per person workers protected by Unions Ranks 2nd Happiest Country 29% Life 79.6 years. Infant mortality 5.7 per 1,000 births. murder 4.74 per Incarcerations: GDP person workers protected by Unions Ranks 14th -Happiest education Financial security for seniors ownership health care Expensive higher education security for seniors 63% ownership Living weeks paid vacation per year 35 weeks parental Average personal tax rate year 8.52% paid vacation paid parental Average personal tax rate- 37%'


No time or desire to go through all that is misleading about the Norway chart.

But the short story is that that most of the numbers there are from the past couple of years, showing an improvement over the past... AS Norway (and other Scandinavian countries start to move away from dem/socialist models a bit).

For example, the tax rate average has been 46.41 percent over the past 30 years, reaching 55% in the 2000s.

The 2019 number is a record low, as there has been a slight away from your dem/socialist model...

3/3/20 9:58 PM
1/1/01
Posts: 11901


3/3/20 10:20 PM
1/1/01
Posts: 65259
chad_mcjangle - 
Tomato Can - 
chad_mcjangle - 
Tomato Can - You just argued past me without addressing anything whatsoever. Most latinos are religious and socially conservative. That is a fact. Republicans should be well positioned to attract those sorts of voters (and GWB actually did) but nowadays they don't.

The argument that latin americans are somehow "predisposed" to socialism is some utterly specious, downright silly shit. Ask Cubans in Florida how they feel about socialism. Most latin american immigrants are coming to the US because their home country is a hellhole and they're looking for something better.

Latinos are NOT conservative. They vote based on perceived economic interests. They favor LARGER government and care less about individual freedom than whites do.

That aligns them with the democrat party.

The GOP has NEVER won latinos. EVER. Not ONCE.

florida cubans are a unique group with a unique history. You can't generalize about other latinos based on florida cubans.

Stop lying.

You can't generalize about other latinos based on cubans? Your entire argument is broad racial generalization!! You're saying "they" favor larger government and care less about freedom than white people. That's utterly moronic and in fact Cuban immigrants are the PERFECT counterpoint to it. They had socialism in their home country and they came to America specifically because they rejected it.

Truly a brilliant electoral strategy. Write off an entire demographic of tens of millions as being somehow "predisposed" to socialism based on vague generalizations about countries they came from which they ARE ACTIVELY FLEEING.

"Truly a brilliant electoral strategy"

You mean the strategy that Trump used to completely rewrite the electoral map and beat a candidate that was given a 95% chance of winning. Yes, very stupid to win elections using what works.

" Your entire argument is broad racial generalization!!"

Okay, please post the evidence I am wrong. Which was the national election the GOP won latinos in? and why do latinos favor the furthest left candidate in the democratic party? It's not immigration policy since all the democrat candidates have effectively the same policy.

Your idea is that republicans need to promote mass immigration of groups that have left wing political views(there is ample data on their political views.) and that by promoting the dispossession of GOP voters, the GOP will convince latinos to switch parties despite there being zero evidence this will happen.

BTW true or false, you are a jewish democrat?

The strategy Trump used to be one of the only presidents to lose the popular vote and who won by ekeing out razor thin victories in a handful of swing states? Yea, double down on that totally reliable, utterly future-proof strategy.

You are (maybe intentionally) mistaking correlation for causation and attempting to ascribe some sort of genetic/racial basis to socialist political beliefs. This is infantile and moronic. Do Scandinavians share this genetic predisposition? What about Eastern Europeans prior to 1991? The Vietnamese?

If you had bothered to put 5 minutes of thought into this (particularly given the actual thread topic) you might have considered that support for socialism tends to grow in places with a large underclass and very high economic inequality, which describes many modern latin american countries.

I never said "republicans need to promote mass immigration" and I have no clue where you got that. And there is plenty of evidence the GOP can draw latino voters. GWB got 40%. Hell even Trump who was as big a douchebag as you can be to them got 28%.

I am a democrat but I am not jewish. And I can't wait to hear why you think that is relevant.
3/3/20 10:51 PM
8/26/05
Posts: 14245
Tomato Can - 
chad_mcjangle - 
Tomato Can - 
chad_mcjangle - 
Tomato Can - You just argued past me without addressing anything whatsoever. Most latinos are religious and socially conservative. That is a fact. Republicans should be well positioned to attract those sorts of voters (and GWB actually did) but nowadays they don't.

The argument that latin americans are somehow "predisposed" to socialism is some utterly specious, downright silly shit. Ask Cubans in Florida how they feel about socialism. Most latin american immigrants are coming to the US because their home country is a hellhole and they're looking for something better.

Latinos are NOT conservative. They vote based on perceived economic interests. They favor LARGER government and care less about individual freedom than whites do.

That aligns them with the democrat party.

The GOP has NEVER won latinos. EVER. Not ONCE.

florida cubans are a unique group with a unique history. You can't generalize about other latinos based on florida cubans.

Stop lying.

You can't generalize about other latinos based on cubans? Your entire argument is broad racial generalization!! You're saying "they" favor larger government and care less about freedom than white people. That's utterly moronic and in fact Cuban immigrants are the PERFECT counterpoint to it. They had socialism in their home country and they came to America specifically because they rejected it.

Truly a brilliant electoral strategy. Write off an entire demographic of tens of millions as being somehow "predisposed" to socialism based on vague generalizations about countries they came from which they ARE ACTIVELY FLEEING.

"Truly a brilliant electoral strategy"

You mean the strategy that Trump used to completely rewrite the electoral map and beat a candidate that was given a 95% chance of winning. Yes, very stupid to win elections using what works.

" Your entire argument is broad racial generalization!!"

Okay, please post the evidence I am wrong. Which was the national election the GOP won latinos in? and why do latinos favor the furthest left candidate in the democratic party? It's not immigration policy since all the democrat candidates have effectively the same policy.

Your idea is that republicans need to promote mass immigration of groups that have left wing political views(there is ample data on their political views.) and that by promoting the dispossession of GOP voters, the GOP will convince latinos to switch parties despite there being zero evidence this will happen.

BTW true or false, you are a jewish democrat?

The strategy Trump used to be one of the only presidents to lose the popular vote and who won by ekeing out razor thin victories in a handful of swing states? Yea, double down on that totally reliable, utterly future-proof strategy.

You are (maybe intentionally) mistaking correlation for causation and attempting to ascribe some sort of genetic/racial basis to socialist political beliefs. This is infantile and moronic. Do Scandinavians share this genetic predisposition? What about Eastern Europeans prior to 1991? The Vietnamese?

If you had bothered to put 5 minutes of thought into this (particularly given the actual thread topic) you might have considered that support for socialism tends to grow in places with a large underclass and very high economic inequality, which describes many modern latin american countries.

I never said "republicans need to promote mass immigration" and I have no clue where you got that. And there is plenty of evidence the GOP can draw latino voters. GWB got 40%. Hell even Trump who was as big a douchebag as you can be to them got 28%.

I am a democrat but I am not jewish. And I can't wait to hear why you think that is relevant.

You don't really understand what Trump's strategy was, if you don't appreciate it. You both oversimplify and underestimate it.

3/3/20 11:04 PM
4/24/07
Posts: 41218
KingMartyrJack - 

Image may contain: possible text that says 'Norway Democratic Socialism United States Unfettered Capitalism of 81.7 years. Infant mortality 2 per 1,000 births. murder 0.51 per 100,000. Incarcerations: $75 per person workers protected by Unions Ranks 2nd Happiest Country 29% Life 79.6 years. Infant mortality 5.7 per 1,000 births. murder 4.74 per Incarcerations: GDP person workers protected by Unions Ranks 14th -Happiest education Financial security for seniors ownership health care Expensive higher education security for seniors 63% ownership Living weeks paid vacation per year 35 weeks parental Average personal tax rate year 8.52% paid vacation paid parental Average personal tax rate- 37%'


- Get another 30% of the population paying into Fed/State taxes, just like Norway and you probably could have some of those things.  But when the 51% supports the 49%, you really can't throw Norway in anyones face as you look like an idiot. 

- Norway earns a ton of money through the sell of petro/gas. You babies want to put an end to that in this country.

- Norway has immigration laws. Illegals can't live or work.... PERIOD. You leftists want to bring in more people who will need to be supported by that ever shrinking number of 51% up there. 

- 2nd Happiest country in the world because they can understand 4th grade math. Something which if you understood at the very most basic levels, would consistantly answer most of your questions about Sanders for you. 

You people simply don't live in reality. You have been brainwashed to think all of these programs can be paid for simply by taxing the rich. It can't. There is no debate. The rich doesn't have 92 trillion. You lemmings just hear "Free Shit" and come running.  Then you have the fucking nerve to sit and call Trump a con man. Wow...

3/3/20 11:18 PM
3/26/13
Posts: 1674
Tahiti Bo -
Tomato Can - 
chad_mcjangle - 
Tomato Can - 
chad_mcjangle - 
Tomato Can - You just argued past me without addressing anything whatsoever. Most latinos are religious and socially conservative. That is a fact. Republicans should be well positioned to attract those sorts of voters (and GWB actually did) but nowadays they don't.

The argument that latin americans are somehow "predisposed" to socialism is some utterly specious, downright silly shit. Ask Cubans in Florida how they feel about socialism. Most latin american immigrants are coming to the US because their home country is a hellhole and they're looking for something better.

Latinos are NOT conservative. They vote based on perceived economic interests. They favor LARGER government and care less about individual freedom than whites do.

That aligns them with the democrat party.

The GOP has NEVER won latinos. EVER. Not ONCE.

florida cubans are a unique group with a unique history. You can't generalize about other latinos based on florida cubans.

Stop lying.

You can't generalize about other latinos based on cubans? Your entire argument is broad racial generalization!! You're saying "they" favor larger government and care less about freedom than white people. That's utterly moronic and in fact Cuban immigrants are the PERFECT counterpoint to it. They had socialism in their home country and they came to America specifically because they rejected it.

Truly a brilliant electoral strategy. Write off an entire demographic of tens of millions as being somehow "predisposed" to socialism based on vague generalizations about countries they came from which they ARE ACTIVELY FLEEING.

"Truly a brilliant electoral strategy"

You mean the strategy that Trump used to completely rewrite the electoral map and beat a candidate that was given a 95% chance of winning. Yes, very stupid to win elections using what works.

" Your entire argument is broad racial generalization!!"

Okay, please post the evidence I am wrong. Which was the national election the GOP won latinos in? and why do latinos favor the furthest left candidate in the democratic party? It's not immigration policy since all the democrat candidates have effectively the same policy.

Your idea is that republicans need to promote mass immigration of groups that have left wing political views(there is ample data on their political views.) and that by promoting the dispossession of GOP voters, the GOP will convince latinos to switch parties despite there being zero evidence this will happen.

BTW true or false, you are a jewish democrat?

The strategy Trump used to be one of the only presidents to lose the popular vote and who won by ekeing out razor thin victories in a handful of swing states? Yea, double down on that totally reliable, utterly future-proof strategy.

You are (maybe intentionally) mistaking correlation for causation and attempting to ascribe some sort of genetic/racial basis to socialist political beliefs. This is infantile and moronic. Do Scandinavians share this genetic predisposition? What about Eastern Europeans prior to 1991? The Vietnamese?

If you had bothered to put 5 minutes of thought into this (particularly given the actual thread topic) you might have considered that support for socialism tends to grow in places with a large underclass and very high economic inequality, which describes many modern latin american countries.

I never said "republicans need to promote mass immigration" and I have no clue where you got that. And there is plenty of evidence the GOP can draw latino voters. GWB got 40%. Hell even Trump who was as big a douchebag as you can be to them got 28%.

I am a democrat but I am not jewish. And I can't wait to hear why you think that is relevant.

You don't really understand what Trump's strategy was, if you don't appreciate it. You both oversimplify and underestimate it.

What was his strategy?

3/4/20 7:58 AM
9/9/12
Posts: 10960

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3/4/20 8:55 PM
1/1/01
Posts: 65260
Right, demographic voting trends can never change and are imparted upon us from birth. Which is why the democratic party still kills it in the south, right?

The Republican latino vote went from 21% in 1996 to 40% in 2004, but yea, latinos are a lost cause and must be genetically predisposed to socialism or something. Surely the only reasonable option is to go full ethno-nationalist rather than, you know, trying to appeal to the entire country.

And I'm still waiting to hear why my possible jewishness was important to you.