OtherGround Forums Why has support for socialism grown in US?

2/20/20 11:55 PM
1/1/01
Posts: 57436
Tomato Can - For many of the same reasons Trump is popular, honestly.

We've had 10+ years of solid economic growth that has generated massive wealth, but inequality has soared and working class people have seen next to none of the gains. Wage growth has not kept up with cost of living while corporate earnings and the stock market have broken record after record. People are looking for answers.

If you cant afford to live in a high cost living area move out just stay out ofTX.

2/20/20 11:58 PM
4/19/09
Posts: 17572
Black Doug -
cheech -


I couldn't buy all that for $20 back in 1998, was this in mexico or some other shithole? 

In 1998, the first cart was more like $100 to $150. 

2/21/20 12:00 AM
1/3/20
Posts: 610
cheech -


Bullshit! So dramatic! Lol

2/21/20 12:27 AM
12/22/10
Posts: 24776
Altofsky -
Black Doug - 
cheech -


I couldn't buy all that for $20 back in 1998, was this in mexico or some other shithole? 


This wtf lol. Horrible exaggeration.

I can also buy more than what's in the last buggy with $20, today. 

cheech must be a window licking, ear biting, mouth breather. 

Bless her little heart

2/21/20 12:28 AM
11/28/08
Posts: 22761
Tomato Can - For many of the same reasons Trump is popular, honestly.

We've had 10+ years of solid economic growth that has generated massive wealth, but inequality has soared and working class people have seen next to none of the gains. Wage growth has not kept up with cost of living while corporate earnings and the stock market have broken record after record. People are looking for answers.

Basically this. People are mad at the neoliberal consensus that lasted from Nixon to Obama, though they blame their problems on different parts of it. Trumpian "economic nationalism" has a lot of the same appeal as leftist ideas. In the real world, that has mostly just meant his putting his name on NAFTA 2, but the messaging never changed.

As for "socialism" specifically, it is because the right has spent decades deriding every social program and healthcare reform as socialist so the word has been worn down into meaningless. They were told that supporting Canadian or Australian healthcare systems makes them a socialist so often that they started believing it, even if it isn't really true.

2/21/20 12:44 AM
2/15/14
Posts: 4765

Because in Russia, Bread line stands in you! 

2/21/20 12:57 AM
12/30/03
Posts: 22167

I don't understand these people saying that there aren't jobs or opportunity. I bartended and bounced making $44,000 a year. 

 

I worked in air conditioning as a helper and made around $45,000. 

 

I managed music venues and was a talent buyer making $60,000 - $75,000. 

 

In Texas, the service industry is desperate for staff. You can walk off the street and make a good living.

 

You can hit up your local HVAC, plumbing, or electrical companies and ask if they are hiring for helpers. Almost everybody is hiring in those fields and they will get you trained and certified. From there, you can work as much overtime as you can stand in most cases and some even offer commission incentives as well as fully paid medical and dental. 

 

I think the problem is people aren't willing to do anything that isn't exactly what they want to do. You might have to actually sweat to make money but there is money to be made. 

 

Socialism only works in small doses when there is a free market to sustain it. Stop being lazy fucks and go get your money. Mow lawns, bartend on weekends, save your money and start a business or invest it. 

Edited: 2/21/20 1:02 AM
3/8/17
Posts: 560

Everything that could not be outsourced had enormous inflation

 

housing and education 

 

the rich benefit from outsourcing mostly, middle and the poor not so much (even though prices are cheaper)

 

 

so now housing and education are huge expenses compared to 30-40 year ago and peoples jobs to pay FOR it got outsourced, only thing left is service industry, which is low paid

2/21/20 1:00 AM
1/1/01
Posts: 9088

participation trophy generation coming home to roost.

2/21/20 1:06 AM
12/30/03
Posts: 22169
Black Doug -
Altofsky -
Black Doug - 
cheech -


I couldn't buy all that for $20 back in 1998, was this in mexico or some other shithole? 


This wtf lol. Horrible exaggeration.

I can also buy more than what's in the last buggy with $20, today. 

cheech must be a window licking, ear biting, mouth breather. 

Bless her little heart

I was going to say this: 

 

I regularly get a bag of chicken, rice, vegetables, a case of water and steaks for just under $40. 

2/21/20 1:09 AM
12/30/03
Posts: 22170
darkm -

Everything that could not be outsourced had enormous inflation

 

housing and education 

 

the rich benefit from outsourcing mostly, middle and the poor not so much (even though prices are cheaper)

 

 

so now housing and education are huge expenses compared to 30-40 year ago and peoples jobs to pay FOR it got outsourced, only thing left is service industry, which is low paid

Or literally any trade you can think of. I hire guys, we train them up, they work for us for 3-5 years and they start their own business regularly. Our service techs have health care at no cost to them that is very good. We are not an industry leader by any means and we don't even have helpers who make less than $50,000 right now. 

2/21/20 1:09 AM
7/31/09
Posts: 6254
cheech -


It's specifically inflation of insurance and education.  

 

https://www.manhattan-institute.org/reevaluating-prosperity-of-american-family

 

I skimmed thru this very long article that basically breaks down on average how many weeks a man has to work to pay all of his expenses on average.  Basically we are at 53 weeks and obviously there are only 52 weeks in a year.  We have been here thru his estimates for the past few years.

 

There is a ton more at the link and the methodology might not be perfect, but I think it is an interesting perspective.  It could also give some insight why people left behind in this economy and also why people seem to have moved towards the fuck you establishment position with Trump and now likely Bernie winning the DNC nomination.  

6.7.0
2/21/20 1:21 AM
8/30/03
Posts: 2264

Young people refuse to leave big cities to pursue the American dream because it's the place to be.  Then they resign themselves to be life long renters.  

 

When you become a life long renter, socialism is the only way to get anywhere near prosperity.

 

Imagine being fucking fully retired and still having to pay for the place you live because you didn't buy something in your 30s and have it paid off by retirement.  Short sighted clowns are always gonna lean socialist - it's basically a prerequisite.

2/21/20 1:35 AM
4/12/11
Posts: 13080
cheech -


This is retarded

2/21/20 1:45 AM
5/3/01
Posts: 28613

watching the og argue about economics is a little like watching the population of a nursing home discuss the new 5g rollout. that is, it's pretty great.

2/21/20 2:22 AM
1/1/01
Posts: 4782
anthonyMI -
Tomato Can - For many of the same reasons Trump is popular, honestly.

We've had 10+ years of solid economic growth that has generated massive wealth, but inequality has soared and working class people have seen next to none of the gains. Wage growth has not kept up with cost of living while corporate earnings and the stock market have broken record after record. People are looking for answers.

Basically this. People are mad at the neoliberal consensus that lasted from Nixon to Obama, though they blame their problems on different parts of it. Trumpian "economic nationalism" has a lot of the same appeal as leftist ideas. In the real world, that has mostly just meant his putting his name on NAFTA 2, but the messaging never changed.

As for "socialism" specifically, it is because the right has spent decades deriding every social program and healthcare reform as socialist so the word has been worn down into meaningless. They were told that supporting Canadian or Australian healthcare systems makes them a socialist so often that they started believing it, even if it isn't really true.

Another issue is the wide definition of "socialism". Critics are talking about Venezuelan populist socialism and Soviet era communism, while some supporters are just talking about Scandinavian social democracy.

There's no way you can discuss an issue if you don't even understand / accept that you're taking about different things. 

2/21/20 2:45 AM
1/1/01
Posts: 58459

Because many are realising there are plenty of socialist policies already in place, just for the wealthy rather than the larger populace.

2/21/20 3:17 AM
1/1/01
Posts: 26630
ttt
2/21/20 7:57 AM
11/13/14
Posts: 4905
ziggystardust -
anthonyMI -
Tomato Can - For many of the same reasons Trump is popular, honestly.

We've had 10+ years of solid economic growth that has generated massive wealth, but inequality has soared and working class people have seen next to none of the gains. Wage growth has not kept up with cost of living while corporate earnings and the stock market have broken record after record. People are looking for answers.

Basically this. People are mad at the neoliberal consensus that lasted from Nixon to Obama, though they blame their problems on different parts of it. Trumpian "economic nationalism" has a lot of the same appeal as leftist ideas. In the real world, that has mostly just meant his putting his name on NAFTA 2, but the messaging never changed.

As for "socialism" specifically, it is because the right has spent decades deriding every social program and healthcare reform as socialist so the word has been worn down into meaningless. They were told that supporting Canadian or Australian healthcare systems makes them a socialist so often that they started believing it, even if it isn't really true.

Another issue is the wide definition of "socialism". Critics are talking about Venezuelan populist socialism and Soviet era communism, while some supporters are just talking about Scandinavian social democracy.

There's no way you can discuss an issue if you don't even understand / accept that you're taking about different things. 

There is only one Socialism and Stalin and Hitler did it.

2/21/20 8:01 AM
1/1/01
Posts: 23983
Fedorsgoathatsfinal -

Democratic socialism, big difference. Bernie’s not for taking over regular buissness. It’s to compete with first world standard of living like Canada and Germany. 65,000 unecessary deaths from being uncovered is a failed system, so is education. You guys on here love clinging onto a broken Oligarchy, Times up, Canada is not Cold War Russia you dumbasses lol. 

Really? Cuz while he hasn’t trotted it out while running for President he has in the past called for nationalizing industries.

2/21/20 8:10 AM
4/3/08
Posts: 7720
ziggystardust -
anthonyMI -
Tomato Can - For many of the same reasons Trump is popular, honestly.

We've had 10+ years of solid economic growth that has generated massive wealth, but inequality has soared and working class people have seen next to none of the gains. Wage growth has not kept up with cost of living while corporate earnings and the stock market have broken record after record. People are looking for answers.

Basically this. People are mad at the neoliberal consensus that lasted from Nixon to Obama, though they blame their problems on different parts of it. Trumpian "economic nationalism" has a lot of the same appeal as leftist ideas. In the real world, that has mostly just meant his putting his name on NAFTA 2, but the messaging never changed.

As for "socialism" specifically, it is because the right has spent decades deriding every social program and healthcare reform as socialist so the word has been worn down into meaningless. They were told that supporting Canadian or Australian healthcare systems makes them a socialist so often that they started believing it, even if it isn't really true.

Another issue is the wide definition of "socialism". Critics are talking about Venezuelan populist socialism and Soviet era communism, while some supporters are just talking about Scandinavian social democracy.

There's no way you can discuss an issue if you don't even understand / accept that you're taking about different things. 

The definition is there, as it has been since its inception. It’s just another case of the left redefining a word because they don’t like/understand the meaning. 
 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.forbes.com/sites/jeffreydorfman/2018/07/08/sorry-bernie-bros-but-nordic-countries-are-not-socialist/amp/

2/21/20 8:12 AM
1/1/01
Posts: 11856


2/21/20 8:13 AM
11/28/08
Posts: 22763
Beninger -
ziggystardust -
anthonyMI -
Tomato Can - For many of the same reasons Trump is popular, honestly.

We've had 10+ years of solid economic growth that has generated massive wealth, but inequality has soared and working class people have seen next to none of the gains. Wage growth has not kept up with cost of living while corporate earnings and the stock market have broken record after record. People are looking for answers.

Basically this. People are mad at the neoliberal consensus that lasted from Nixon to Obama, though they blame their problems on different parts of it. Trumpian "economic nationalism" has a lot of the same appeal as leftist ideas. In the real world, that has mostly just meant his putting his name on NAFTA 2, but the messaging never changed.

As for "socialism" specifically, it is because the right has spent decades deriding every social program and healthcare reform as socialist so the word has been worn down into meaningless. They were told that supporting Canadian or Australian healthcare systems makes them a socialist so often that they started believing it, even if it isn't really true.

Another issue is the wide definition of "socialism". Critics are talking about Venezuelan populist socialism and Soviet era communism, while some supporters are just talking about Scandinavian social democracy.

There's no way you can discuss an issue if you don't even understand / accept that you're taking about different things. 

The definition is there, as it has been since its inception. It’s just another case of the left redefining a word because they don’t like/understand the meaning. 
 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.forbes.com/sites/jeffreydorfman/2018/07/08/sorry-bernie-bros-but-nordic-countries-are-not-socialist/amp/

That isn't what conservatives were saying during the Obamacare debate.

2/21/20 8:14 AM
1/1/01
Posts: 23984

Part of is people simply expect more. In 1980 almost no one had a VCR and certainly few had multiple tv’s. As the years progressed people have only become more materialistic. Multiple large screen tv’s, multiple gaming systems, multiple iPhones, the most expensive cars they can afford, etc... While capitalism and competition has made these products and services cheaper in many regards there are more of them to spend on. And when you see that people now consider phones and internet a human right is it really so shocking that they want more for free.

2/21/20 8:17 AM
4/27/15
Posts: 15862

This all came from the universities.