PoliticalGround US involvement in regime change - Country list

Edited: 7/23/18 1:49 PM
1/1/01
Posts: 21117

Admittedly I find all of this amusing when you consider that in the next 5 years we are almost certainly going to start cozying up to Russia to stifle growing Chinese power the same way we cozied up to China in the 70’s and 80’s to offset Soviet power. 

And which party is in power will have no bearing on that...

7/23/18 2:05 PM
1/1/01
Posts: 28451
Trust -
Pratty - 
amadeus -
Pratty -

Stupidest argument ever

in all those cases the US did it for its own self intrest, not the country they intervened in

And clearly Russia’s attack on the election was in their own self intrest. Implying a quid pro quo with the installed regime.

Which means Trump has to go as he isn’t working for the US’s intrest 

No... The US is the hegemonic power in the world. Yes, Russia acted in her own self-interest as you would expect, but that doesn’t have to take the form of a preferred candidate. Russia sought to cause and sow discord among the American people, and they succeeded. That serves and served Russian interest far more than acting in a single preferred candidates favor to secure an election.

I disgree. Trump was clearly the preferred candidate 

I called Putin’s leverage over Trump before the Steele dossier. It’s so fucking obvious

https://imgur.com/a/hf4yesv


Why does the existence of one candidate that is more favorable to Russian interests necessarily imply a quid pro quo?  

Because that was the case in OP’s list. The US almost always had a deal with the installed regimes. Iran 1953 was about oil, Panama 1903 was about the canal

 

But why would a corrupt Oligarchy target a real estate developer with multiple bankruptcies? Easy. He was laundering money for the Russians for years. Putin has so much shit on him

 

Don Jr in 2008: “Half our investments come from Russia”

 

https://www.newsweek.com/2017/12/29/donald-trump-russia-secret-deutsche-bank-753780.html

7/23/18 2:05 PM
1/1/01
Posts: 21118
Donkey Hotee -
amadeus -
Donkey Hotee -
amadeus -
Donkey Hotee -
amadeus -
Pratty -

Stupidest argument ever

in all those cases the US did it for its own self intrest, not the country they intervened in

And clearly Russia’s attack on the election was in their own self intrest. Implying a quid pro quo with the installed regime.

Which means Trump has to go as he isn’t working for the US’s intrest 

No... The US is the hegemonic power in the world. Yes, Russia acted in her own self-interest as you would expect, but that doesn’t have to take the form of a preferred candidate. Russia sought to cause and sow discord among the American people, and they succeeded. That serves and served Russian interest far more than acting in a single preferred candidates favor to secure an election.

Are you saying you think they did it with (a) no endgame in mind and (b) hoping to be discovered?  That seems unlikely in the extreme.

The discord was their endgame. How much time has been spent going after Trump over Russian interference? Since they also passed information to the Clinton campaign do you really think it would be any different if she had won?

We are further divided as a country than at anytime in my life. That has an effect on politics and creates opportunities for other rival nations.

I don’t think you undertake something as risky as this with and endgame of “discord”. I think most nations capable of organizing this type of effort are sophisticated enough to have more comprehensive goals for the risk profile it presents.

Why not? What is really the fallout? We already have sanctions against Russia. We aren’t going to war with a nuclear or a near-peer conventional power unless we have no other choice. Europe isn’t going to pressure them because they get most of their power from Russia and because they benefit from US political turmoil...

What really is the downside for Russia?

Just because we are already sanctioning them doesn’t mean more sanctions cannot be imposed.  If you are caught early on and exposed you risk getting zero affect and steeling the resolve of the opposing populace to impose harsher sanctions.  You risk dramatically changing the political climate to your detriment.  These types of things can cause a snowball affect which could absolutely end up in war.

Please... If you think we are going to war with a nuclear or near-peer military anytime in your or your grandchildren’s lifetime you’re a fool.

We pick on the kid with Downs Syndrome down the street. That’s it.

7/23/18 2:23 PM
3/13/17
Posts: 5189
amadeus - 
Pedro Navaja -
amadeus - 

It’s really only fair to look at post-WWII...

That said, I agree. It’s why I don’t get too upset about Russian interference in our election, especially since it was only to provoke and exploit internal discord. We don’t get to play the victim after all the shit we’ve been responsible for.


Agreed.

The US has executed at least 81 overt and covert known interventions in foreign elections during the period 1946–2000.

By the same token, American's should not play the victim to 9/11 right?

Wasn't that simply a fair response to decades of meddlings, regime changes, bombing women + children in the middle east?

No... The 9/11 attacks were intentionally [and primarily] waged on civilian targets that had no strategic value. There is an argument to be made that American arrogance and meddling provoked the attacks sure, but we have never purposely targeted civilians and especially not in the lead up to 9/11.


Didn't purposefully target civilians? But still ended up killing many many many of them, via policies or collateral damage...
7/23/18 2:30 PM
3/13/17
Posts: 5190
Pumpkin Spice Lazarus - 

I see what you did here... 


Heh heh.

It must be hard to follow a guy like Trump because he forces his supporters to flip flop and be hypocrites just like him. Most people's conscious does not allow this, so they must be twisting inside.
7/23/18 3:36 PM
10/4/02
Posts: 22582

But muh Russian meddling!!!

7/23/18 3:57 PM
3/13/17
Posts: 5193
Rashomon - 

But muh Russian meddling!!!


So you agree America deserved 9/11?
7/24/18 9:06 PM
4/27/14
Posts: 14744

Pedro is a Russian bot.