S&C UnderGround Kettlebells barbells

10/17/16 2:37 PM
6/5/12
Posts: 211
Does anyone here that use mainly kettlebells do some barbell work too? Phone Post 3.0
10/19/16 12:07 PM
6/5/12
Posts: 213

I want to deadlift and squat once a week but not sure if I should do them on the same day or separate 

10/20/16 9:49 AM
3/5/14
Posts: 7212

You can do them on the same day or seperate.  Its up to you.  Whatever makes the most sense for you.  I've done it both ways.  I do like doing them the same day just because you get them both done with one right after the other. 

10/20/16 12:24 PM
6/5/12
Posts: 214

I'll try them on the same day 5x5

11/9/16 12:52 PM
2/26/07
Posts: 6653
I do them the same day, either 3x5 or 5x5 squats and either 3x3 or 3x5 deadlift depending on how I feel after the squats Phone Post 3.0
11/9/16 1:39 PM
6/5/12
Posts: 227
TheThrill - I do them the same day, either 3x5 or 5x5 squats and either 3x3 or 3x5 deadlift depending on how I feel after the squats Phone Post 3.0

Ya I did 5x3 deadlift and 3x5 squats and bench with amrap on the last set 

11/9/16 1:40 PM
6/5/12
Posts: 228
srld -
TheThrill - I do them the same day, either 3x5 or 5x5 squats and either 3x3 or 3x5 deadlift depending on how I feel after the squats Phone Post 3.0

Ya I did 5x3 deadlift and 3x5 squats and bench with amrap on the last set 

3x3 deadlift 

11/9/16 2:53 PM
2/26/07
Posts: 6656
I tried to write it out as like a "program" but basically I cut back or go harder based entirely on how I feel that day as opposed to "I wrote it down now I have to do it" Phone Post 3.0
11/10/16 11:41 AM
9/3/14
Posts: 40

Lately I've been using the ballistic movements as precursors to my bigger/main lifts (deads, squats, etc). On DL day I'll warm up with a couple TGU's on each side then do 3 sets of moderate to heavy weight (24-32 kg) swings for shorter reps (5). Following that is my 5-6 working sets of deads. Here is a good post about benefits of KB's by Charlie Weingroff

 

http://charlieweingroff.com/2016/07/the-concept-of-lowest-system-load/#comments

11/10/16 1:48 PM
6/5/12
Posts: 229
ChiroFox -

Lately I've been using the ballistic movements as precursors to my bigger/main lifts (deads, squats, etc). On DL day I'll warm up with a couple TGU's on each side then do 3 sets of moderate to heavy weight (24-32 kg) swings for shorter reps (5). Following that is my 5-6 working sets of deads. Here is a good post about benefits of KB's by Charlie Weingroff

 

http://charlieweingroff.com/2016/07/the-concept-of-lowest-system-load/#comments

I'm doing simple and sinister 3 days a week and barbells once a week 

Edited: 11/24/16 1:40 PM
2/14/03
Posts: 737
In the past 6 months I have transitioned from barbells to kettle bells and club bells almost exclusively, after a herniated/slipped disc injury while doing clean and jerks with the barbell.

I am moving and feeling better than ever.
12/15/16 1:02 PM
6/5/12
Posts: 231
bullson - In the past 6 months I have transitioned from barbells to kettle bells and club bells almost exclusively, after a herniated/slipped disc injury while doing clean and jerks with the barbell.

I am moving and feeling better than ever.

Crossfit?

1/2/17 7:42 PM
6/5/12
Posts: 238

Friday I did trap bar deadlift, shoulder press, one arm rows and the ab wheel for 3x8 

1/2/17 8:32 PM
1/1/01
Posts: 546
If I could offer my opinion it'd go like this -

Back in 2006 I needed shoulder surgery but was desperate to avoid it. I looked for any solution I could find to avoid surgery and that's how I got interested in Kettlebells. My background prior to that was about 25 years of lifting weights in all forms from machines and free weights to bodybuilding and sport specific type work.

KBs didn't end up helping me avoid surgery but I found them to very useful for many things. Fast forward a bit more and I wound up as a Master RKC and teaching for FMS and use KBs with my clients from everything form rehab to max strength and strength endurance. But they still have limits.

The short version is that hips require intensity - that means load. The shoulder, on the other hand, require variety. So the KB doesn't provide enough load for the lower body but it allows you to train a bunch of moves in the upper body like windmills, presses, snatches, jerks, get ups, etc.

So a well designed plan is barbells for lower body and kettlebells for upper body and rehab work. They're decent as a stand alone tool for when you don't have a lot of time and they're great for strength endurance too. But don't chuck away the barbell as you should still be squatting and/ or deadlifting.
1/2/17 8:41 PM
6/5/12
Posts: 239
bull neck - If I could offer my opinion it'd go like this -

Back in 2006 I needed shoulder surgery but was desperate to avoid it. I looked for any solution I could find to avoid surgery and that's how I got interested in Kettlebells. My background prior to that was about 25 years of lifting weights in all forms from machines and free weights to bodybuilding and sport specific type work.

KBs didn't end up helping me avoid surgery but I found them to very useful for many things. Fast forward a bit more and I wound up as a Master RKC and teaching for FMS and use KBs with my clients from everything form rehab to max strength and strength endurance. But they still have limits.

The short version is that hips require intensity - that means load. The shoulder, on the other hand, require variety. So the KB doesn't provide enough load for the lower body but it allows you to train a bunch of moves in the upper body like windmills, presses, snatches, jerks, get ups, etc.

So a well designed plan is barbells for lower body and kettlebells for upper body and rehab work. They're decent as a stand alone tool for when you don't have a lot of time and they're great for strength endurance too. But don't chuck away the barbell as you should still be squatting and/ or deadlifting.

Thank you, I'm doing simple and sinister right now and maybe do a kb/barbell workout after that or look for another kb workout when I get to the 70 lbs lifts 

1/3/17 12:13 AM
1/1/01
Posts: 547
Simple and Sinister - otherwise known as the workout I came up with and Pavel wrote a book on that is the HKC plus three stretches.

If you want to actually get in shape fuck that shit off and train for real. S and S is like what you do when you're on holiday and need to train in a short period of time for a short period of time.
1/3/17 12:40 AM
6/5/12
Posts: 240
bull neck - Simple and Sinister - otherwise known as the workout I came up with and Pavel wrote a book on that is the HKC plus three stretches.

If you want to actually get in shape fuck that shit off and train for real. S and S is like what you do when you're on holiday and need to train in a short period of time for a short period of time.

What would you recommend? 

1/3/17 1:07 AM
1/1/01
Posts: 548
I'd recommend exactly what I wrote above. If you had three workouts per week you'd pick 2-3 exercises per session. Maybe:

Double KB press, Barbell front squat, pull ups. Do this twice per week. On the third session drop the squats and add DLs.

Use a basic 3-5 x 3-5 rep scheme. (Incidentally, if you read Beyond Bodybuilding, which is still Pavel's best book, you'll see him recommend this. It was the improved version of Power to the People, which didn't work because it recommended daily DLs. Then it morphed into "Easy Strength", which was never actually done the way it was intended because when they turned it into a book it wasn't at all what was originally presented at the first workshop Dan and Pavel spoke about it at). In other words 3-5 x 3-5 for 3-5 exercises done 3-5 times per week is the backbone of nearly all strength training and you'll see it recommended in many places.

The reason I'd say do the same exercises 3x per week is simple - motor learning. It ensures faster progress than using a ton of variety.

However, the reality is that pressing is pressing. You could substitute push press, jerk, BU press, waiter press, tall and 1/2 kneeling pressing, barbell press, floor press, bench press, dips, push ups on rings...and on and on. Unless you're competing in a sport that involved, let's say bench press, your body won't care which one you do and they'll all add strength.

Same goes for squats - barbell front and back squats, zercher squats, goblet squats (maybe), double kettlebell front squats, bottoms up squats, single leg squats, bulgarian squats...all the same.

Some exercises do better on slightly higher reps - such as rowing variations - but otherwise that 3-5 x 3-5 is good and you can it use it for years.

Instead of worrying about calculating percentages etc an easier way is to start at 3 x 3 for week 1, using the same weight and rep scheme for all three workouts.

In week 2 keep the weight the same and do 3 sets of 4.

3 x 5 in week 3.

4 x 5 in week 4.

5 x 5 in week 5.

Then take 1 week doing something like S and S to give the body a slight break and go again with 5kg more for each exercise. Start at a moderate weight - 3 x 3 is very easy compared to 5 x 5. Done this way you can stay on this 6 week cycle for most of a year before you'll top out. I have BJJ guys that started with 3 x 3 at 100kg in the DL and are now at 3 x 3 at 140kg with bw the same. Zero injuries. Not too sore to train. Can add or subtract variety as needed. We pick exercises based on their own needs and progress has been amazing.
1/3/17 9:13 AM
3/5/14
Posts: 7799

^^ Here Here, This man knows his stuff. 

1/3/17 5:20 PM
6/5/12
Posts: 242
bull neck - Simple and Sinister - otherwise known as the workout I came up with and Pavel wrote a book on that is the HKC plus three stretches.

If you want to actually get in shape fuck that shit off and train for real. S and S is like what you do when you're on holiday and need to train in a short period of time for a short period of time.

I'm going to do trap bar deadlift, It's a good combo of squats and deadlifts and add kb swings 

1/5/17 8:58 PM
6/5/12
Posts: 243
bull neck - Simple and Sinister - otherwise known as the workout I came up with and Pavel wrote a book on that is the HKC plus three stretches.

If you want to actually get in shape fuck that shit off and train for real. S and S is like what you do when you're on holiday and need to train in a short period of time for a short period of time.

Are you serious about you coming up with simple and sinister?

1/6/17 7:55 PM
1/1/01
Posts: 549
Yes, sort of. Google Andrew Read Program Maximum. I wrote that article nearly two years before simple and sinister came out. And that article was based off an old challenge on the Dragon Door forum called the Titan Challenge that a guy named Josef came up with.

Simple and sinister is an absolute piece of shit as a book. It's top three for worst fitness books I have ever spent money on. (With the other two being Martin Rooney's Training for Warriors and Zac Even Esh's Underground Strength manual).
1/17/17 2:32 AM
12/1/11
Posts: 11245

Will insert this into my workout.

1/19/17 8:58 PM
6/5/12
Posts: 245
bull neck - I'd recommend exactly what I wrote above. If you had three workouts per week you'd pick 2-3 exercises per session. Maybe:

Double KB press, Barbell front squat, pull ups. Do this twice per week. On the third session drop the squats and add DLs.

Use a basic 3-5 x 3-5 rep scheme. (Incidentally, if you read Beyond Bodybuilding, which is still Pavel's best book, you'll see him recommend this. It was the improved version of Power to the People, which didn't work because it recommended daily DLs. Then it morphed into "Easy Strength", which was never actually done the way it was intended because when they turned it into a book it wasn't at all what was originally presented at the first workshop Dan and Pavel spoke about it at). In other words 3-5 x 3-5 for 3-5 exercises done 3-5 times per week is the backbone of nearly all strength training and you'll see it recommended in many places.

The reason I'd say do the same exercises 3x per week is simple - motor learning. It ensures faster progress than using a ton of variety.

However, the reality is that pressing is pressing. You could substitute push press, jerk, BU press, waiter press, tall and 1/2 kneeling pressing, barbell press, floor press, bench press, dips, push ups on rings...and on and on. Unless you're competing in a sport that involved, let's say bench press, your body won't care which one you do and they'll all add strength.

Same goes for squats - barbell front and back squats, zercher squats, goblet squats (maybe), double kettlebell front squats, bottoms up squats, single leg squats, bulgarian squats...all the same.

Some exercises do better on slightly higher reps - such as rowing variations - but otherwise that 3-5 x 3-5 is good and you can it use it for years.

Instead of worrying about calculating percentages etc an easier way is to start at 3 x 3 for week 1, using the same weight and rep scheme for all three workouts.

In week 2 keep the weight the same and do 3 sets of 4.

3 x 5 in week 3.

4 x 5 in week 4.

5 x 5 in week 5.

Then take 1 week doing something like S and S to give the body a slight break and go again with 5kg more for each exercise. Start at a moderate weight - 3 x 3 is very easy compared to 5 x 5. Done this way you can stay on this 6 week cycle for most of a year before you'll top out. I have BJJ guys that started with 3 x 3 at 100kg in the DL and are now at 3 x 3 at 140kg with bw the same. Zero injuries. Not too sore to train. Can add or subtract variety as needed. We pick exercises based on their own needs and progress has been amazing.

Do you do swings?

1/22/17 11:42 PM
1/1/01
Posts: 551
Sometimes. I lift weights three times a week. What you see above is essentially exactly what I am doing with the exception of weighted pull ups as I am working on a max rep pull up program. But it slots in here easily and I just do my 5 sets at the end after I've done the max strength work.

After the max strength and pull ups I do core work. Always.

After that, if I feel like I need a bit more, I do some bonus circuit/ conditioning type stuff. 10-20mins of some kind of little circuit and swings may end up in there. Like: in 20mins do 10 hindu push ups, 10 ring rows, 10 swings with a 32kg for as many rounds as you can. But never in the same sort of volume that most retard cult KB people suggest.

But I also do 30-45mins of steady state easy cardio daily. I do BJJ 3-4 times per week. 20-30min of yoga daily. Given I'm 45 it all seems enough.