S&C UnderGround Kettlebells barbells

2/19/17 10:23 PM
1/1/01
Posts: 29838
bull neck - Yes, sort of. Google Andrew Read Program Maximum. I wrote that article nearly two years before simple and sinister came out. And that article was based off an old challenge on the Dragon Door forum called the Titan Challenge that a guy named Josef came up with.

Simple and sinister is an absolute piece of shit as a book. It's top three for worst fitness books I have ever spent money on. (With the other two being Martin Rooney's Training for Warriors and Zac Even Esh's Underground Strength manual).

Can you give a rundown on why you thought Rooney's and Zac's books were inferior? I'm not an expert or anything, but Rooney's book looked solid.
2/22/17 12:45 AM
1/1/01
Posts: 554
Underground strength - when someone trans a bunch of teenagers out of their backyard and makes outlandish claims contrary to every other high level strength coach ever it's a bit strange. Basically, he trained a bunch of kids going through puberty. He could have done nothing with them and they'd have gotten stronger. That's how puberty works. To claim you came up with some fantastic system based off their results is BS.

Then add in photos taken randomly, spelling and grammatical mistakes, and it's one of the worst produced books as well as one of the most misinformed.

Rooney's book - Rooney was a PT at an Equinox next door to Renzo's. He got lucky when IFL was formed and a bunch of fighters were looking to train. He was the only staff member at that gym who wasn't booked out and offered to train them all for free. Any PT worth their salt knows the only reason you do that is in the hope of picking up some actual paying clients.

Then you take a bunch of photos of people training. Add in a bunch of exercises. A hurricane or two. And his book is just a meaningless swamp of mindless drivel. At least Pavel's book has some direction to it.

Tactical Barbell is probably the best and easiest read for people wanting strength and fitness for fighting. For conditioning buy TB2. If you don't know how to perform certain exercises properly hire a high quality trainer to teach you.

Use barbells and dumbbells for strength and KBs for conditioning. Run, cycle, and row for endurance.
3/22/17 11:03 PM
6/5/12
Posts: 254
bull neck - Sometimes. I lift weights three times a week. What you see above is essentially exactly what I am doing with the exception of weighted pull ups as I am working on a max rep pull up program. But it slots in here easily and I just do my 5 sets at the end after I've done the max strength work.

After the max strength and pull ups I do core work. Always.

After that, if I feel like I need a bit more, I do some bonus circuit/ conditioning type stuff. 10-20mins of some kind of little circuit and swings may end up in there. Like: in 20mins do 10 hindu push ups, 10 ring rows, 10 swings with a 32kg for as many rounds as you can. But never in the same sort of volume that most retard cult KB people suggest.

But I also do 30-45mins of steady state easy cardio daily. I do BJJ 3-4 times per week. 20-30min of yoga daily. Given I'm 45 it all seems enough.

So the swing is a conditioning exercise?

3/23/17 2:30 PM
1/1/01
Posts: 557
The swing could be a strength exercise if someone was particularly feeble. But it is best as a strength endurance exercise.

Conditioning is a catch all term that covers strength and power endurance as well as actual endurance. What would be best for people would be if they actually sat down and had a think about what they really lacked and then addressed it with the most appropriate method. If you're a Crossfit beast with a 450lb DL and can hit 350lb for 10+ reps you don't have a strength endurance problem. But maybe you can't run around the block. So for you the best conditioning would be to go for a run or a row. But if you're a triathlete who can run all day but ten swings with a 32kg bell is heavy then you need both strength and then to develop some strength endurance.
3/25/17 10:04 AM
6/5/12
Posts: 255

I'm going to try the c&p and swings with the front squat, I'm working alot right now so I don't have alot of time 

6/20/17 11:04 PM
6/5/12
Posts: 259
bull neck - I'd recommend exactly what I wrote above. If you had three workouts per week you'd pick 2-3 exercises per session. Maybe:

Double KB press, Barbell front squat, pull ups. Do this twice per week. On the third session drop the squats and add DLs.

Use a basic 3-5 x 3-5 rep scheme. (Incidentally, if you read Beyond Bodybuilding, which is still Pavel's best book, you'll see him recommend this. It was the improved version of Power to the People, which didn't work because it recommended daily DLs. Then it morphed into "Easy Strength", which was never actually done the way it was intended because when they turned it into a book it wasn't at all what was originally presented at the first workshop Dan and Pavel spoke about it at). In other words 3-5 x 3-5 for 3-5 exercises done 3-5 times per week is the backbone of nearly all strength training and you'll see it recommended in many places.

The reason I'd say do the same exercises 3x per week is simple - motor learning. It ensures faster progress than using a ton of variety.

However, the reality is that pressing is pressing. You could substitute push press, jerk, BU press, waiter press, tall and 1/2 kneeling pressing, barbell press, floor press, bench press, dips, push ups on rings...and on and on. Unless you're competing in a sport that involved, let's say bench press, your body won't care which one you do and they'll all add strength.

Same goes for squats - barbell front and back squats, zercher squats, goblet squats (maybe), double kettlebell front squats, bottoms up squats, single leg squats, bulgarian squats...all the same.

Some exercises do better on slightly higher reps - such as rowing variations - but otherwise that 3-5 x 3-5 is good and you can it use it for years.

Instead of worrying about calculating percentages etc an easier way is to start at 3 x 3 for week 1, using the same weight and rep scheme for all three workouts.

In week 2 keep the weight the same and do 3 sets of 4.

3 x 5 in week 3.

4 x 5 in week 4.

5 x 5 in week 5.

Then take 1 week doing something like S and S to give the body a slight break and go again with 5kg more for each exercise. Start at a moderate weight - 3 x 3 is very easy compared to 5 x 5. Done this way you can stay on this 6 week cycle for most of a year before you'll top out. I have BJJ guys that started with 3 x 3 at 100kg in the DL and are now at 3 x 3 at 140kg with bw the same. Zero injuries. Not too sore to train. Can add or subtract variety as needed. We pick exercises based on their own needs and progress has been amazing.

So this workout would probably be good for me, I'm working 50+ hours a week with a family and not alot of time

7/5/17 10:23 PM
6/5/12
Posts: 261
bull neck - The swing could be a strength exercise if someone was particularly feeble. But it is best as a strength endurance exercise.

Conditioning is a catch all term that covers strength and power endurance as well as actual endurance. What would be best for people would be if they actually sat down and had a think about what they really lacked and then addressed it with the most appropriate method. If you're a Crossfit beast with a 450lb DL and can hit 350lb for 10+ reps you don't have a strength endurance problem. But maybe you can't run around the block. So for you the best conditioning would be to go for a run or a row. But if you're a triathlete who can run all day but ten swings with a 32kg bell is heavy then you need both strength and then to develop some strength endurance.

Hey bullneck do you do cleans and presses? I'm practising cleans right now and I like the kettlebell squat in the rack position 

1/26/18 6:27 PM
6/5/12
Posts: 271
bull neck - Underground strength - when someone trans a bunch of teenagers out of their backyard and makes outlandish claims contrary to every other high level strength coach ever it's a bit strange. Basically, he trained a bunch of kids going through puberty. He could have done nothing with them and they'd have gotten stronger. That's how puberty works. To claim you came up with some fantastic system based off their results is BS.

Then add in photos taken randomly, spelling and grammatical mistakes, and it's one of the worst produced books as well as one of the most misinformed.

Rooney's book - Rooney was a PT at an Equinox next door to Renzo's. He got lucky when IFL was formed and a bunch of fighters were looking to train. He was the only staff member at that gym who wasn't booked out and offered to train them all for free. Any PT worth their salt knows the only reason you do that is in the hope of picking up some actual paying clients.

Then you take a bunch of photos of people training. Add in a bunch of exercises. A hurricane or two. And his book is just a meaningless swamp of mindless drivel. At least Pavel's book has some direction to it.

Tactical Barbell is probably the best and easiest read for people wanting strength and fitness for fighting. For conditioning buy TB2. If you don't know how to perform certain exercises properly hire a high quality trainer to teach you.

Use barbells and dumbbells for strength and KBs for conditioning. Run, cycle, and row for endurance.

I bought tactical barbell 3rd edition and it was good, might get tb2

2/5/18 7:03 PM
1/3/11
Posts: 1616

Tb2???? Is that what the book is called?

 

2/7/18 11:13 PM
6/5/12
Posts: 272
Ringworm74 -

Tb2???? Is that what the book is called?

 

Tactical barbell 2

2/14/18 6:02 AM
1/3/11
Posts: 1620
srld -
Ringworm74 -

Tb2???? Is that what the book is called?

 

Tactical barbell 2

I bought both books. Im very pleased with them both. I like how they bring both form of training together in an easy to follow template. I also like how the author recommended LSS. Now i dont feel bad for going for a long run.... does anyone know if i can substitute jump rope for LSS in one day?

2/17/18 3:35 PM
6/5/12
Posts: 273
Ringworm74 -
srld -
Ringworm74 -

Tb2???? Is that what the book is called?

 

Tactical barbell 2

I bought both books. Im very pleased with them both. I like how they bring both form of training together in an easy to follow template. I also like how the author recommended LSS. Now i dont feel bad for going for a long run.... does anyone know if i can substitute jump rope for LSS in one day?

I was thinking of buying tb2

2/19/18 10:46 PM
1/3/11
Posts: 1621
srld -
Ringworm74 -
srld -
Ringworm74 -

Tb2???? Is that what the book is called?

 

Tactical barbell 2

I bought both books. Im very pleased with them both. I like how they bring both form of training together in an easy to follow template. I also like how the author recommended LSS. Now i dont feel bad for going for a long run.... does anyone know if i can substitute jump rope for LSS in one day?

I was thinking of buying tb2

It was really good.... cheaper than TB if i recall... they also have a website with a forum

3/13/18 8:45 PM
6/5/12
Posts: 275

What kind of kettlebell training do you guys do? 

3/30/18 11:37 PM
6/5/12
Posts: 276
Ringworm74 -
srld -
Ringworm74 -
srld -
Ringworm74 -

Tb2???? Is that what the book is called?

 

Tactical barbell 2

I bought both books. Im very pleased with them both. I like how they bring both form of training together in an easy to follow template. I also like how the author recommended LSS. Now i dont feel bad for going for a long run.... does anyone know if i can substitute jump rope for LSS in one day?

I was thinking of buying tb2

It was really good.... cheaper than TB if i recall... they also have a website with a forum

I bought tactical barbell 2 and I like it, I'm going to start the base building soon 

7/16/18 6:53 PM
6/5/12
Posts: 292

Right now I'm doing squat bench kb clean with swings as an accessory 

7/29/18 2:59 PM
2/26/07
Posts: 7852
barbell-deadlift and a press variation 2x5 nearly every day

fighter pull up program is what im doing for july but if not there would be some pull ups in there

5-10 min of 'skill' work with KB to finish-currently working on bent press and TGU

couple times a week ill either run 3 miles or run a mile on a 5 incline and then do a couple rower sprints


im kind of on a pavel kick now as im going through all his older books and following along with what he laid out in power to the people with the deadlift and press everyday, but not enough volume to hurt you-to be honest, i feel fucking great

for the past 5 years before this i was on either 531 or a whole body 3x5/5x5 program and it just seemed like it was beating me down as i got older-but im only 33, which isnt old, and i didnt like feeling worn down

even if i have almost no time i can make sure to knock out the deadlift and press and throw in some pullups, and outside of stiffer shoulders getting used to pullups everyday, all of my aches and pains are gone
7/29/18 3:06 PM
6/5/12
Posts: 298
TheThrill - barbell-deadlift and a press variation 2x5 nearly every day

fighter pull up program is what im doing for july but if not there would be some pull ups in there

5-10 min of 'skill' work with KB to finish-currently working on bent press and TGU

couple times a week ill either run 3 miles or run a mile on a 5 incline and then do a couple rower sprints


im kind of on a pavel kick now as im going through all his older books and following along with what he laid out in power to the people with the deadlift and press everyday, but not enough volume to hurt you-to be honest, i feel fucking great

for the past 5 years before this i was on either 531 or a whole body 3x5/5x5 program and it just seemed like it was beating me down as i got older-but im only 33, which isnt old, and i didnt like feeling worn down

even if i have almost no time i can make sure to knock out the deadlift and press and throw in some pullups, and outside of stiffer shoulders getting used to pullups everyday, all of my aches and pains are gone

Does it have to be deadlifts or can it be squats, what pavel book would you recommend? I  have simple and sinister 

7/29/18 4:04 PM
2/26/07
Posts: 7853

Deadlift and a press variation is from power to the people

 

Google around for Dan John easy strength, it's pretty similar and I do hit a set of ab wheels at the end of my workouts so it's pretty similar to that as well-i think he says you can switch exercises every 2 weeks/10 workouts but PttP suggests sticking with a deadlift for the leg work I believe

 

 

I've done deadlift and incline nearly everyday for the last 2 months, more recently adding in the pull up program instead of random sets of pull ups, and doing a set with the ab wheel at the end like dan John suggests, and its easy as fuck and I'm a lot harder all over my body, which is weird considering how hard I used to work out haha

 

Heavy ass weight for low reps everyday with a deadlift and a press, quit overthinking it and jump on that for the 40 days and reassess 

7/29/18 4:05 PM
2/26/07
Posts: 7854

Btw I'll link power to the people on here when i get back to my computer

7/29/18 4:14 PM
6/5/12
Posts: 299

I've been on tactical barbell for 5 weeks now, not sure if I should switch programs yet but it sounds good 

8/8/18 11:07 PM
6/5/12
Posts: 301
TheThrill -

Deadlift and a press variation is from power to the people

 

Google around for Dan John easy strength, it's pretty similar and I do hit a set of ab wheels at the end of my workouts so it's pretty similar to that as well-i think he says you can switch exercises every 2 weeks/10 workouts but PttP suggests sticking with a deadlift for the leg work I believe

 

 

I've done deadlift and incline nearly everyday for the last 2 months, more recently adding in the pull up program instead of random sets of pull ups, and doing a set with the ab wheel at the end like dan John suggests, and its easy as fuck and I'm a lot harder all over my body, which is weird considering how hard I used to work out haha

 

Heavy ass weight for low reps everyday with a deadlift and a press, quit overthinking it and jump on that for the 40 days and reassess 

Maybe this workout would be good for me, Really busy at work. Working 11 hour days for weeks at a time 

8/13/18 9:21 PM
6/5/12
Posts: 302
TheThrill -

Btw I'll link power to the people on here when i get back to my computer

Link?

8/13/18 9:39 PM
2/26/07
Posts: 7861

Have my weak ass wife following this alone and shes gone from 40lbs (lol) August 1st to 140 yesterday, real fun to watch the noob gains lol 

 

 

I'll link it when I get back to my computer

8/13/18 9:46 PM
6/5/12
Posts: 303
TheThrill -

Have my weak ass wife following this alone and shes gone from 40lbs (lol) August 1st to 140 yesterday, real fun to watch the noob gains lol 

 

 

I'll link it when I get back to my computer

Deadlift?