UnderGround Forums All you bums doubting Bruce Lee...

10/8/19 6:41 PM
1/1/01
Posts: 11220
boxingman -
Outkaster - 

I guess people miss the point about Bruce Lee.  It took me till I was older to sort it out.  Remember there was never anyone like him before. Other people cross trained but really didn’t put it all together like he did getting in films and everything.  Bruce Lee had passed before many people on this board were born so there really hasn’t really been anyone in the martial arts community could get behind other than maybe Chuck Norris.   The UFC stars now are different because they don’t come with the philosophical ideology that Bruce was known for.  Bruce was kind of the whole package and different from everyone.  He was always reading and had a huge Library related to fighting.  I got into the Martial Arts right at the tail end of his popularity. He was popular still in the 80’s before the Ninja craze started in 1981.  If you look at the timeline for MA’s in the US. You had:

 

1950’s Judo

1960’s Karate

1970’s Kung Fu

1980’s Ninjutsu/Tae Kwon-Do

1990’s Tae Kwon- Do/UFC

2000’s Muay Thai/MMA/BJJ

 

I will agree with some of you he may have not “fought” anyway noteworthy but things were also very different back then.  I was there for some of it and have lived through the changes. MMA was not around and even thought of really in the old days for most guys (let’s say 60’s, 70’s and partially the 80’s).  People were studying for the Martial Arts sake and generally were happy with everything because they did not know anything else.  Most of the time we didn’t visit other schools. We stayed in our own silo.  We didn’t have internet and all the YouTube martial artists bitching about people like Rhonda Rousey or Jones.  Reason I brought that up is it’s hard to compare him in the modern context….it was a different time.    What Bruce did was synthesize and challenge a system that was at the time antiquated and needed change.  Bruce also really preferred western boxing to his own background for example. He wanted to mix things up and he did.  He never thought kicking above the waist was good until he met Chuck Norris, he learned to absorb and adapt which is hard for Martial Artists with a base system ground in.  Shannon Lee, his daughter said he would have loved the UFC but he didn’t even live long enough to realize his effect on the world. He affected a ton of things, The Action Movie Genre (Hollywood for one), Asians getting exposure and respect in films, and most importantly the Martial Arts in general.  He was 32 when he died and did all that. Most people could live a lifetime and hope to do one of those things well.  ?  I admit his movies provided a distracting influence away from real fighting practices into kind of a fantasy based theme.  The "martial arts" craze of the 70’s that Bruce Lee helped make popular with his television and movie work, had little to do with real fighting, but rather glamorizing fantasy ideas about Kung Fu, Karate, and other Asian martial arts that really didn’t have anything to do with reality. I will be honest with you all here, most people would not be around or trained if it wasn’t for him and I have run into hundreds of people that  have told me so over the years. Trust me that is the point of Bruce Lee’s short time here. 


this is a good solid post

only thing i would say is

north america is not the whole world
in russia/ussr it was common and still is
for boxers to do some other martial arts
same for sambo guys or wrestlers
so cross training was common in some places

you can add holland and brazil to group as well

No it's not, the history is completely wrong and it's the classic revisionism nonsense based on bullshit propagated by the lee estate lawyer

Edited: 10/8/19 7:00 PM
11/5/13
Posts: 5206

De Braco can't handle the effect this Martial arts superstar had on the world.

10/8/19 7:06 PM
5/14/13
Posts: 5127

 

10/8/19 7:14 PM
1/1/01
Posts: 11222
Doc_Watson -

De Braco can't handle the effect this Martial arts superstar had on the world.

the real doc watson would gouge your eyes out for the disgrace you do his name

10/8/19 8:45 PM
5/8/16
Posts: 4060

Look up bukaw on YouTube the muy thia fighter.. he is around Bruce Lee size . If you think Bruce Lee would beat bukaw your crazy. I domt kmow why this guy does not try mma his push kicks are lethal snd would stop anyone from trying td

Edited: 10/8/19 11:15 PM
1/1/01
Posts: 11225

Bruce thought muay thai was all bullshit and he'd just trap them and chain punch the shit out of them. Of course you'll notice he never bothered to put his money where his mouth was. Mas Oyama and a troupe of siamese were barnstorming and taking on all comers in san francisco when bruce lived in oakland so he had plenty of opportunity. Not to mention the trouncing the kung fu teams from hong kong received regularly, the 72&73 embarrassments being particularly well publicized. Bruce was in hong kong during the 73 debacle, yet he didn't step forward to give the sick men of asia their revenge. Why?

this is the 74 destruction

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Edited: 10/8/19 11:12 PM
1/1/01
Posts: 11226

Poetry in motion

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Rolls gracie has better stand-up than the tiny dancer. Let that sink in for a moment. A wrestler has better stand-up

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the plagurized "deep" thoughts

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10/9/19 5:14 PM
1/1/01
Posts: 11230
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10/9/19 5:22 PM
5/14/13
Posts: 5132
de braco -
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The reason people are attracted to Bruce is the same reason they're attracted to Conor.

 

They fall for the words. Not the actions.

10/9/19 5:32 PM
1/1/01
Posts: 11232

Bruce had neither the words nor actions, he did have the best entertainment lawyer in the business who created a post mortem narrative that's 99.5% fairy tale

10/10/19 6:10 PM
1/1/01
Posts: 11245

Bruce wasn't afraid to enter the 1958 Hong Kong cha-cha championship though. Little Phoenix won that mother scratcher too. He starred in the last movie of his childhood career also in 1958, the orphan

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10/11/19 8:23 AM
10/27/03
Posts: 24541
de braco -

Bruce thought muay thai was all bullshit and he'd just trap them and chain punch the shit out of them. Of course you'll notice he never bothered to put his money where his mouth was. Mas Oyama and a troupe of siamese were barnstorming and taking on all comers in san francisco when bruce lived in oakland so he had plenty of opportunity. Not to mention the trouncing the kung fu teams from hong kong received regularly, the 72&73 embarrassments being particularly well publicized. Bruce was in hong kong during the 73 debacle, yet he didn't step forward to give the sick men of asia their revenge. Why?

this is the 74 destruction

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Not that I really disagree with anything you post about the Bruce Lee mythology,  but the guy himself was not going to step into the ring vs anyone in 72 or 73. By that time he was filming Way of the Dragon and Enter the Dragon. He was HKs biggest ever celebrity and was crossing over to Hollywood.

And the entire point of his argument by that point was that the kung fu in HK sucked. Why would he attempt to defend them?

10/11/19 8:27 AM
11/24/02
Posts: 1218

It is a waste of time to compare athletes from the past to today’s athletics standards. There is always a progression and human development in every sport. Bruce Lee was the man and the best during his era. 

Edited: 10/11/19 1:07 PM
11/8/08
Posts: 4222
SuperMann -

It is a waste of time to compare athletes from the past to today’s athletics standards. There is always a progression and human development in every sport. Bruce Lee was the man and the best during his era. 

Best what during his era? Actor? No. Martial artist? No. Fighter? Lol, no. Cult leader? Maybe down the road, but not in his era while alive. 

He was a traditional mcdojo martial artist who was full of theory, but would rather talk and act than actually prove himself. This is the exact kind of guy who would have gotten dojo stormed by the Gracies and ended up disowning his own style while convert over to ju jitsu. 

You might not like the way I'm talking about him, but you can't dispute the truth. We had a name for guys like that...posers.

10/11/19 11:26 AM
10/11/18
Posts: 1229
The Pendulum - 

 


LOL. I always laugh when videos of him with that bag are posted and the Bruce Lee cultists come out to claim that bag was 300lbs and had steel pipes in it. No way would the bag be flying around like that.Plus he would break every bone in his arms and legs every time he struck it. That bag is clearly empty.
10/11/19 1:30 PM
12/9/02
Posts: 13104
de braco -

Bruce thought muay thai was all bullshit and he'd just trap them and chain punch the shit out of them. Of course you'll notice he never bothered to put his money where his mouth was. Mas Oyama and a troupe of siamese were barnstorming and taking on all comers in san francisco when bruce lived in oakland so he had plenty of opportunity. Not to mention the trouncing the kung fu teams from hong kong received regularly, the 72&73 embarrassments being particularly well publicized. Bruce was in hong kong during the 73 debacle, yet he didn't step forward to give the sick men of asia their revenge. Why?

this is the 74 destruction

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bruce had changed his mind about muay thai closer to the end

10/11/19 1:31 PM
12/9/02
Posts: 13105
JoeHurley -
SuperMann -

It is a waste of time to compare athletes from the past to today’s athletics standards. There is always a progression and human development in every sport. Bruce Lee was the man and the best during his era. 

Best what during his era? Actor? No. Martial artist? No. Fighter? Lol, no. Cult leader? Maybe down the road, but not in his era while alive. 

He was a traditional mcdojo martial artist who was full of theory, but would rather talk and act than actually prove himself. This is the exact kind of guy who would have gotten dojo stormed by the Gracies and ended up disowning his own style while convert over to ju jitsu. 

You might not like the way I'm talking about him, but you can't dispute the truth. We had a name for guys like that...posers.

yeah joe louis dan inosanto ed parker chuck norris,etc etc etc all respected and trained with him because he was from a mcdojo

10/11/19 2:08 PM
11/8/08
Posts: 4224
yomamafool -
JoeHurley -
SuperMann -

It is a waste of time to compare athletes from the past to today’s athletics standards. There is always a progression and human development in every sport. Bruce Lee was the man and the best during his era. 

Best what during his era? Actor? No. Martial artist? No. Fighter? Lol, no. Cult leader? Maybe down the road, but not in his era while alive. 

He was a traditional mcdojo martial artist who was full of theory, but would rather talk and act than actually prove himself. This is the exact kind of guy who would have gotten dojo stormed by the Gracies and ended up disowning his own style while convert over to ju jitsu. 

You might not like the way I'm talking about him, but you can't dispute the truth. We had a name for guys like that...posers.

yeah joe louis dan inosanto ed parker chuck norris,etc etc etc all respected and trained with him because he was from a mcdojo

So here we go again with people name dropping and making it look like those guys were all students learning from Bruce instead of the other way around. 

Joe Lewis trained with Bruce less than a year and had a falling out. If you're going to bring up Joe then how about mentioning what Joe says regarding Lee's actual fighting level and how they would match up in a real fight?

Chuck Norris trained off and on for over a year. It started out based on Bruce giving him a movie role meant for Joe Lewis before they stopped talking. Chuck trained with Bruce for a while, but when he discovered BJJ then he trained with the Machado's non stop to this very day. That says a lot. 

Ed Parker...ehh...I'm a little divided on him. He did more for Bruce than Bruce did for him. If you're using Ed Parker as validation for Bruce Lee's skills then the fact that he awarded lots of black belts including one to Elvis Presley takes away from that credibility. More importantly Ed didnt compete as a fighter either and was more of a hollywood stunt man/unprovenmartial artist just like Bruce.

Dan Inosanto is more hype and stories. He was a student of Bruce and Ed. Once again, no competition record, real fights to judge and strictly dojo martial artist. 

10/11/19 3:01 PM
7/12/03
Posts: 10949
The Pendulum - 
de braco -
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The reason people are attracted to Bruce is the same reason they're attracted to Conor.

 

They fall for the words. Not the actions.


Conor is an actual fighter and was a UFC champ.
Edited: 10/11/19 3:18 PM
12/7/14
Posts: 2952
pcuzz -
The Pendulum - 
de braco -
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The reason people are attracted to Bruce is the same reason they're attracted to Conor.

 

They fall for the words. Not the actions.


Conor is an actual fighter and was a UFC champ.

and Conor is the one in the original video that gave perhaps the best reason for Bruce's potential as a fighter - his mastery of efficient, controlled movement.

10/11/19 3:13 PM
12/9/02
Posts: 13106
JoeHurley -
yomamafool -
JoeHurley -
SuperMann -

It is a waste of time to compare athletes from the past to today’s athletics standards. There is always a progression and human development in every sport. Bruce Lee was the man and the best during his era. 

Best what during his era? Actor? No. Martial artist? No. Fighter? Lol, no. Cult leader? Maybe down the road, but not in his era while alive. 

He was a traditional mcdojo martial artist who was full of theory, but would rather talk and act than actually prove himself. This is the exact kind of guy who would have gotten dojo stormed by the Gracies and ended up disowning his own style while convert over to ju jitsu. 

You might not like the way I'm talking about him, but you can't dispute the truth. We had a name for guys like that...posers.

yeah joe louis dan inosanto ed parker chuck norris,etc etc etc all respected and trained with him because he was from a mcdojo

So here we go again with people name dropping and making it look like those guys were all students learning from Bruce instead of the other way around. 

Joe Lewis trained with Bruce less than a year and had a falling out. If you're going to bring up Joe then how about mentioning what Joe says regarding Lee's actual fighting level and how they would match up in a real fight?

Chuck Norris trained off and on for over a year. It started out based on Bruce giving him a movie role meant for Joe Lewis before they stopped talking. Chuck trained with Bruce for a while, but when he discovered BJJ then he trained with the Machado's non stop to this very day. That says a lot. 

Ed Parker...ehh...I'm a little divided on him. He did more for Bruce than Bruce did for him. If you're using Ed Parker as validation for Bruce Lee's skills then the fact that he awarded lots of black belts including one to Elvis Presley takes away from that credibility. More importantly Ed didnt compete as a fighter either and was more of a hollywood stunt man/unprovenmartial artist just like Bruce.

Dan Inosanto is more hype and stories. He was a student of Bruce and Ed. Once again, no competition record, real fights to judge and strictly dojo martial artist. 

read again dipshit. i said trained with. none of them thought he was a tma mcdojo wannabe

10/11/19 4:18 PM
5/14/13
Posts: 5138
pcuzz -
The Pendulum - 
de braco -
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The reason people are attracted to Bruce is the same reason they're attracted to Conor.

 

They fall for the words. Not the actions.


Conor is an actual fighter and was a UFC champ.

Those are achievements, not actions.

10/11/19 4:29 PM
11/8/08
Posts: 4225
yomamafool -
JoeHurley -
yomamafool -
JoeHurley -
SuperMann -

It is a waste of time to compare athletes from the past to today’s athletics standards. There is always a progression and human development in every sport. Bruce Lee was the man and the best during his era. 

Best what during his era? Actor? No. Martial artist? No. Fighter? Lol, no. Cult leader? Maybe down the road, but not in his era while alive. 

He was a traditional mcdojo martial artist who was full of theory, but would rather talk and act than actually prove himself. This is the exact kind of guy who would have gotten dojo stormed by the Gracies and ended up disowning his own style while convert over to ju jitsu. 

You might not like the way I'm talking about him, but you can't dispute the truth. We had a name for guys like that...posers.

yeah joe louis dan inosanto ed parker chuck norris,etc etc etc all respected and trained with him because he was from a mcdojo

So here we go again with people name dropping and making it look like those guys were all students learning from Bruce instead of the other way around. 

Joe Lewis trained with Bruce less than a year and had a falling out. If you're going to bring up Joe then how about mentioning what Joe says regarding Lee's actual fighting level and how they would match up in a real fight?

Chuck Norris trained off and on for over a year. It started out based on Bruce giving him a movie role meant for Joe Lewis before they stopped talking. Chuck trained with Bruce for a while, but when he discovered BJJ then he trained with the Machado's non stop to this very day. That says a lot. 

Ed Parker...ehh...I'm a little divided on him. He did more for Bruce than Bruce did for him. If you're using Ed Parker as validation for Bruce Lee's skills then the fact that he awarded lots of black belts including one to Elvis Presley takes away from that credibility. More importantly Ed didnt compete as a fighter either and was more of a hollywood stunt man/unprovenmartial artist just like Bruce.

Dan Inosanto is more hype and stories. He was a student of Bruce and Ed. Once again, no competition record, real fights to judge and strictly dojo martial artist. 

read again dipshit. i said trained with. none of them thought he was a tma mcdojo wannabe

No need for name calling. Stay calm and be like water or you will miss all that heavenly glory. Lol

Edited: 10/11/19 4:37 PM
10/9/10
Posts: 14302
FatBuddha -
Osbot - 

Bruce is the last part of that 80's martial arts are magic powers mentality to be let go. The guy was charismatic, inspirational, and made cool movies. Yet people still somehow believe he was some sort of super human combatant. In the 80's if you had a black belt in anything, you automatically were conferred this aura of unexplainable badassery, Bruce Lee is the last vestige of that legacy. Without proof, logic, or rationale, grown men like Joe Rogan who talk about the 80's era of wuwu martial arts, still buys into the fairy tale of Lee as some sort of legit badass fighter.

Imagine if people thought The Arnold, was a badass fighter, because of Commando. 


Jesus not this again. The best fighters of his generation sparred and took private lessons from him - yes, it's all a conspiracy LMAO. He would have beat you down fast. Real fast.

Bruce Lee also wasn’t alive in the 80s

10/11/19 6:10 PM
1/1/01
Posts: 11251
yomamafool -
de braco -

Bruce thought muay thai was all bullshit and he'd just trap them and chain punch the shit out of them. Of course you'll notice he never bothered to put his money where his mouth was. Mas Oyama and a troupe of siamese were barnstorming and taking on all comers in san francisco when bruce lived in oakland so he had plenty of opportunity. Not to mention the trouncing the kung fu teams from hong kong received regularly, the 72&73 embarrassments being particularly well publicized. Bruce was in hong kong during the 73 debacle, yet he didn't step forward to give the sick men of asia their revenge. Why?

this is the 74 destruction

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bruce had changed his mind about muay thai closer to the end

bullshit revisionism