UnderGround Forums Bellators New Business Model Explained.

14 days ago
9/10/07
Posts: 1371
Someone needs to tell the NBA, NHL, MLB, the NFL and all college football and basketball teams that Thursday night = no gate revenue. What have they been thinking?!
14 days ago
11/16/17
Posts: 9957

I literally got a free room 60 bucks in slow cash and a cctv viewing...... Free.....

13 days ago
8/17/08
Posts: 15174
Dead President -

Any news on them changing the bellator name ?

if they change their name it would harm the value of their tape library.  should of done it as soon as viacom bought them.

13 days ago
2/18/20
Posts: 1041
Universally - 
On a SideNote -

I'm here with one of our fighters preparing for tonight's Bellator show.

I will say this, Bellator is paying on par with UFC as far as prelim fighters are concerned. Not sure where they are generating money but clearly they are not hurting.

Also, tonight's card should be fun.  Not UFC level but not far off some of the most recent UFC cards.

Actually, there are several prelims guys I'm looking forward to seeing: Crutchmer, Gozali, and Edwards (maybe Kimbel, but he seems to be better as a corner man than a fighter). If Gozali doesn't watch it, he'll be Bellator's Ryan Hall soon. No one wants to get subbed in the first round, and that's what Gozali loves doing to opponents.

Good luck to your guy, whoever he is!


We got the win tonight, fellas.

Edited: 13 days ago
7/24/12
Posts: 9847

They should've changed their gay name when they got bought by Viacom. "Bellator" is always gonna have an inferior, 2nd c.lass connotation.

13 days ago
1/12/10
Posts: 442
Robert Thomas - 
HillboFrateTrane -
Dead President -

Any news on them changing the bellator name ?

Seriously. The promotion needs a new name. “Ultimate fighting championship” is perfect and totally self explanatory. To this day I have no idea what the fuck a bellator is. 

Warrior in Latin. Still fucking retarded for an American MMA promotion. Why not WFC "Warrior Fighting Championships" if you want to go the warrior route.

Or even World Fighting Championships, or Global Fighting Championships.


It was originally founded as a property aimed at the Latin American sports market but soon pivoted to the US market, at which point they were saddled with the name
13 days ago
1/1/14
Posts: 2849

Bellator Fight League

keeps the bellator but explains what they’re about

13 days ago
1/1/14
Posts: 2850

They should also focus on their social media and YouTube presence. Invest in getting a push on free available fights on YouTube so more people see the kind of show they’re running. A lot of companies miss the mark on how effective social media/YouTube and even spreading memes can be at raising awareness of a product

12 days ago
7/2/09
Posts: 8537
TheHoarseWhisperer -

They should also focus on their social media and YouTube presence. Invest in getting a push on free available fights on YouTube so more people see the kind of show they’re running. A lot of companies miss the mark on how effective social media/YouTube and even spreading memes can be at raising awareness of a product

The traditional media has their head up their own legal ass with protecting trademarks and properties.  There's no common sense among them about when to give something away vs when to monetize.  It's self strangulation.  Let them die.  The new will rise, anyway.

11 days ago
11/12/07
Posts: 18878
TheHoarseWhisperer - 

They should also focus on their social media and YouTube presence. Invest in getting a push on free available fights on YouTube so more people see the kind of show they’re running. A lot of companies miss the mark on how effective social media/YouTube and even spreading memes can be at raising awareness of a product


that's exactly what they've been doing.. notice they don't market the app? They're pushing everything to YouTube. They've picked up quite a bit on YouTube. About 350k subscribers since covid started. Almost to 1 million.
11 days ago
5/11/08
Posts: 2849
MMALOGIC -

Moving to Thursday Nights = No gate revenue

 

Moving to CBS SPorts Network = Limited exposure/audience

 

No gate revenue + limited exposure/audience = inability to monetize  "needle movers"

 

and thus... sign prospects on the cheap and dont try to retain expensive talent like Mike Chandler.

 

Back to the old Bjorn Rebney model of low cost content/talent and longevity for something better (how restrictive the contracts are will determine the quality of prospects they can get... thus far not as restrictive as Rebney's slave deals).  

 

Thursday nights (no gate revenue) + CBS sports network (no audience) = cant monetize premium talent.

 

This equation could change with viacoms new streaming assets but Bellator couldnt do shit for DAZN (who's been trying to get out of the deal) so I wouldnt hold my breath.

 

WHY CANT ANOTHER STRIKEFORCE EMERGE?

 

Because strikeforce emerged during a time where UFC only had around 21 events a year.... which means the market had more demand than UFC was supplying and the talent pool had more supply than UFC could hire/retain.

 

Today there are more than 40 UFC events a year (plus contender series) more than supplying the markets (fans) demand/appetatite. 

 

ANd with 40 events a year, there's more than enough room on the roster for the cormiers, rockholds, etc... 

 

Impossible for another strikeforce to emerge in the current market realities (no real excess demand in the market to supply and no real surpluss of talent). 

 

Survive as long as you can while hoping for these Market Realities to change.

 

The other main reason why another strikeforce can't emerge is because the talent isn't available. It's all locked down in the UFC. Coker benefited by being in the right place at the right time. People seem to forget that a large portion of his roster was comprised of EliteXC fighters that he scooped up after they folded. Strikeforce even took over their TV deal. Then Affliction went tits up and he managed to scrape together the money to sign a bunch of their guys. Of course we all know the rest of the story - he tried to get way too big too fast and blew the whole thing up. He lost the CBS deal early on, got played by Fedor's people, put on the disastrous HW Grand Prix that Dana had to finish for him, etc.

He's done an absolute shit job with Bellator, and the mma media just seems to give him a pass. Everyone talks about his talent scouting ability but in the over six years he's been in charge he hasn't produced one legitimate draw. Ratings that were solid under Rebney are now below what Bellator was doing on MTV2 back when they started out. I'm honestly shocked he still has a job. 

10 days ago
5/8/13
Posts: 15115

Doesn’t fulfill my appetatite for mma..... 

Edited: 10 days ago
1/1/01
Posts: 40350
pbody -
MMALOGIC -

Moving to Thursday Nights = No gate revenue

 

Moving to CBS SPorts Network = Limited exposure/audience

 

No gate revenue + limited exposure/audience = inability to monetize  "needle movers"

 

and thus... sign prospects on the cheap and dont try to retain expensive talent like Mike Chandler.

 

Back to the old Bjorn Rebney model of low cost content/talent and longevity for something better (how restrictive the contracts are will determine the quality of prospects they can get... thus far not as restrictive as Rebney's slave deals).  

 

Thursday nights (no gate revenue) + CBS sports network (no audience) = cant monetize premium talent.

 

This equation could change with viacoms new streaming assets but Bellator couldnt do shit for DAZN (who's been trying to get out of the deal) so I wouldnt hold my breath.

 

WHY CANT ANOTHER STRIKEFORCE EMERGE?

 

Because strikeforce emerged during a time where UFC only had around 21 events a year.... which means the market had more demand than UFC was supplying and the talent pool had more supply than UFC could hire/retain.

 

Today there are more than 40 UFC events a year (plus contender series) more than supplying the markets (fans) demand/appetatite. 

 

ANd with 40 events a year, there's more than enough room on the roster for the cormiers, rockholds, etc... 

 

Impossible for another strikeforce to emerge in the current market realities (no real excess demand in the market to supply and no real surpluss of talent). 

 

Survive as long as you can while hoping for these Market Realities to change.

 

The other main reason why another strikeforce can't emerge is because the talent isn't available. It's all locked down in the UFC. Coker benefited by being in the right place at the right time. People seem to forget that a large portion of his roster was comprised of EliteXC fighters that he scooped up after they folded. Strikeforce even took over their TV deal. Then Affliction went tits up and he managed to scrape together the money to sign a bunch of their guys. Of course we all know the rest of the story - he tried to get way too big too fast and blew the whole thing up. He lost the CBS deal early on, got played by Fedor's people, put on the disastrous HW Grand Prix that Dana had to finish for him, etc.

He's done an absolute shit job with Bellator, and the mma media just seems to give him a pass. Everyone talks about his talent scouting ability but in the over six years he's been in charge he hasn't produced one legitimate draw. Ratings that were solid under Rebney are now below what Bellator was doing on MTV2 back when they started out. I'm honestly shocked he still has a job. 

Like I was saying... with all that money behind them I'll never understand how they can not get their social media game together.

Patricio Pitbull would for sure have near a million twitter followers instead of his current 20k if he were in the UFC. Chandler only has 56k and he likely just gained 10k since signing with the UFC.

Juan Archuleta is their current BW champ and another example of their home-grown talent, 3,800k twitter followers.

How can Viacom be behind a MMA company for a decade and they have champions without 5k twitter followers?

Meanwhile new UFC champions like Weili are doing seeing 300,000,000 views on Chinese social and state media and are the top web search in the country. https://www.sportsbusinessdaily.com/Daily/Global/2019/09/04/Zhang-Weili.aspx

Doubt its even her biggest social media platform but Weili has over 500,000 followers on instagram.

Another newer UFC champ, Adesanya has 700,000 twitter followers.

So new champions:

Bellator 5k twitter followers

UFC 700,000k twitter followers

Those numbers say a lot.

Its amazing Viacom has owned Bellator for so long and been able to do so little with it.

Bellators most watched fights ever are the Ken vs Kimbo, Dada5000 vs Kimbo, Tito vs Chael, etc... type legends fights that are almost always terrible.

You won't find a bigger fan of their WW and FW GPs they have done in recent years but overall Bellator is terrible for a promotion with so much funding.

10 days ago
5/11/08
Posts: 2851
BJ Penn Forever -
pbody -
MMALOGIC -

Moving to Thursday Nights = No gate revenue

 

Moving to CBS SPorts Network = Limited exposure/audience

 

No gate revenue + limited exposure/audience = inability to monetize  "needle movers"

 

and thus... sign prospects on the cheap and dont try to retain expensive talent like Mike Chandler.

 

Back to the old Bjorn Rebney model of low cost content/talent and longevity for something better (how restrictive the contracts are will determine the quality of prospects they can get... thus far not as restrictive as Rebney's slave deals).  

 

Thursday nights (no gate revenue) + CBS sports network (no audience) = cant monetize premium talent.

 

This equation could change with viacoms new streaming assets but Bellator couldnt do shit for DAZN (who's been trying to get out of the deal) so I wouldnt hold my breath.

 

WHY CANT ANOTHER STRIKEFORCE EMERGE?

 

Because strikeforce emerged during a time where UFC only had around 21 events a year.... which means the market had more demand than UFC was supplying and the talent pool had more supply than UFC could hire/retain.

 

Today there are more than 40 UFC events a year (plus contender series) more than supplying the markets (fans) demand/appetatite. 

 

ANd with 40 events a year, there's more than enough room on the roster for the cormiers, rockholds, etc... 

 

Impossible for another strikeforce to emerge in the current market realities (no real excess demand in the market to supply and no real surpluss of talent). 

 

Survive as long as you can while hoping for these Market Realities to change.

 

The other main reason why another strikeforce can't emerge is because the talent isn't available. It's all locked down in the UFC. Coker benefited by being in the right place at the right time. People seem to forget that a large portion of his roster was comprised of EliteXC fighters that he scooped up after they folded. Strikeforce even took over their TV deal. Then Affliction went tits up and he managed to scrape together the money to sign a bunch of their guys. Of course we all know the rest of the story - he tried to get way too big too fast and blew the whole thing up. He lost the CBS deal early on, got played by Fedor's people, put on the disastrous HW Grand Prix that Dana had to finish for him, etc.

He's done an absolute shit job with Bellator, and the mma media just seems to give him a pass. Everyone talks about his talent scouting ability but in the over six years he's been in charge he hasn't produced one legitimate draw. Ratings that were solid under Rebney are now below what Bellator was doing on MTV2 back when they started out. I'm honestly shocked he still has a job. 

Like I was saying... with all that money behind them I'll never understand how they can not get their social media game together.

Patricio Pitbull would for sure have near a million twitter followers instead of his current 20k if he were in the UFC. Chandler only has 56k and he likely just gained 10k since signing with the UFC.

Juan Archuleta is their current BW champ and another example of their home-grown talent, 3,800k twitter followers.

How can Viacom be behind a MMA company for a decade and they have champions without 5k twitter followers?

Meanwhile new UFC champions like Weili are doing seeing 300,000,000 views on Chinese social and state media and are the top web search in the country. https://www.sportsbusinessdaily.com/Daily/Global/2019/09/04/Zhang-Weili.aspx

Doubt its even her biggest social media platform but Weili has over 500,000 followers on instagram.

Another newer UFC champ, Adesanya has 700,000 twitter followers.

So new champions:

Bellator 5k twitter followers

UFC 700,000k twitter followers

Those numbers say a lot.

Its amazing Viacom has owned Bellator for so long and been able to do so little with it.

Bellators most watched fights ever are the Ken vs Kimbo, Dada5000 vs Kimbo, Tito vs Chael, etc... type legends fights that are almost always terrible.

You won't find a bigger fan of their WW and FW GPs they have done in recent years but overall Bellator is terrible for a promotion with so much funding.

I don't actually think they have that much money behind them these days. Viacom is beholden to shareholders who don't appreciate throwing away money on bad investments. There's no indication that Bellator is actually making that much money. 

And remember, they actually tried at one point. They went all in with additional programming, like fight master and gym rescue. They signed Randy Couture to a big deal to help with these shows. They failed miserably. 

When the UFC went to Fox, Viacom thought they could recreate what they'd done with the UFC on their own. Instead they own a promotion that appears to be limping along and hasn't created a single draw on their own in the ten years or so they've had them. Like you said, their biggest ratings have come from old UFC guys. 

I have no doubt their plan was to do exactly what the UFC did - create stars through free tv and then look to monetize them with PPV. That didn't happen (their one ppv didn't do great and they haven't attempted another one since) and there's no shot of it happening now. They really lucked out with the DAZN deal but that seems to be done now too. 

It's a shame because they've had some great fighters over the years and put on some great events. I just think that they chose the wrong guy in Coker to lead them. Their ratings we're good under Rebney, even if he was an asshole. Then Coker came along and turned them into a joke with the freakshow fights (remember the cringe Tito/Bonnar promo?) and other garbage ideas like the Dynamite kickboxing/MMA shows. Not to mention the shitty matchmaking. But for some reason he gets a pass from the mma media. I don't get it. 

Edited: 10 days ago
5/1/11
Posts: 4957

The reason another Strikeforce can’t emerge is because no one is doing anything different. Bjorn Rebney’s Bellator was a completely different product from the UFC. I thought it was a much better product than what Bellator is doing now.  

10 days ago
5/1/11
Posts: 4958
pbody -
BJ Penn Forever -
pbody -
MMALOGIC -

Moving to Thursday Nights = No gate revenue

 

Moving to CBS SPorts Network = Limited exposure/audience

 

No gate revenue + limited exposure/audience = inability to monetize  "needle movers"

 

and thus... sign prospects on the cheap and dont try to retain expensive talent like Mike Chandler.

 

Back to the old Bjorn Rebney model of low cost content/talent and longevity for something better (how restrictive the contracts are will determine the quality of prospects they can get... thus far not as restrictive as Rebney's slave deals).  

 

Thursday nights (no gate revenue) + CBS sports network (no audience) = cant monetize premium talent.

 

This equation could change with viacoms new streaming assets but Bellator couldnt do shit for DAZN (who's been trying to get out of the deal) so I wouldnt hold my breath.

 

WHY CANT ANOTHER STRIKEFORCE EMERGE?

 

Because strikeforce emerged during a time where UFC only had around 21 events a year.... which means the market had more demand than UFC was supplying and the talent pool had more supply than UFC could hire/retain.

 

Today there are more than 40 UFC events a year (plus contender series) more than supplying the markets (fans) demand/appetatite. 

 

ANd with 40 events a year, there's more than enough room on the roster for the cormiers, rockholds, etc... 

 

Impossible for another strikeforce to emerge in the current market realities (no real excess demand in the market to supply and no real surpluss of talent). 

 

Survive as long as you can while hoping for these Market Realities to change.

 

The other main reason why another strikeforce can't emerge is because the talent isn't available. It's all locked down in the UFC. Coker benefited by being in the right place at the right time. People seem to forget that a large portion of his roster was comprised of EliteXC fighters that he scooped up after they folded. Strikeforce even took over their TV deal. Then Affliction went tits up and he managed to scrape together the money to sign a bunch of their guys. Of course we all know the rest of the story - he tried to get way too big too fast and blew the whole thing up. He lost the CBS deal early on, got played by Fedor's people, put on the disastrous HW Grand Prix that Dana had to finish for him, etc.

He's done an absolute shit job with Bellator, and the mma media just seems to give him a pass. Everyone talks about his talent scouting ability but in the over six years he's been in charge he hasn't produced one legitimate draw. Ratings that were solid under Rebney are now below what Bellator was doing on MTV2 back when they started out. I'm honestly shocked he still has a job. 

Like I was saying... with all that money behind them I'll never understand how they can not get their social media game together.

Patricio Pitbull would for sure have near a million twitter followers instead of his current 20k if he were in the UFC. Chandler only has 56k and he likely just gained 10k since signing with the UFC.

Juan Archuleta is their current BW champ and another example of their home-grown talent, 3,800k twitter followers.

How can Viacom be behind a MMA company for a decade and they have champions without 5k twitter followers?

Meanwhile new UFC champions like Weili are doing seeing 300,000,000 views on Chinese social and state media and are the top web search in the country. https://www.sportsbusinessdaily.com/Daily/Global/2019/09/04/Zhang-Weili.aspx

Doubt its even her biggest social media platform but Weili has over 500,000 followers on instagram.

Another newer UFC champ, Adesanya has 700,000 twitter followers.

So new champions:

Bellator 5k twitter followers

UFC 700,000k twitter followers

Those numbers say a lot.

Its amazing Viacom has owned Bellator for so long and been able to do so little with it.

Bellators most watched fights ever are the Ken vs Kimbo, Dada5000 vs Kimbo, Tito vs Chael, etc... type legends fights that are almost always terrible.

You won't find a bigger fan of their WW and FW GPs they have done in recent years but overall Bellator is terrible for a promotion with so much funding.

I don't actually think they have that much money behind them these days. Viacom is beholden to shareholders who don't appreciate throwing away money on bad investments. There's no indication that Bellator is actually making that much money. 

And remember, they actually tried at one point. They went all in with additional programming, like fight master and gym rescue. They signed Randy Couture to a big deal to help with these shows. They failed miserably. 

When the UFC went to Fox, Viacom thought they could recreate what they'd done with the UFC on their own. Instead they own a promotion that appears to be limping along and hasn't created a single draw on their own in the ten years or so they've had them. Like you said, their biggest ratings have come from old UFC guys. 

I have no doubt their plan was to do exactly what the UFC did - create stars through free tv and then look to monetize them with PPV. That didn't happen (their one ppv didn't do great and they haven't attempted another one since) and there's no shot of it happening now. They really lucked out with the DAZN deal but that seems to be done now too. 

It's a shame because they've had some great fighters over the years and put on some great events. I just think that they chose the wrong guy in Coker to lead them. Their ratings we're good under Rebney, even if he was an asshole. Then Coker came along and turned them into a joke with the freakshow fights (remember the cringe Tito/Bonnar promo?) and other garbage ideas like the Dynamite kickboxing/MMA shows. Not to mention the shitty matchmaking. But for some reason he gets a pass from the mma media. I don't get it. 

Because the new Bellator is not an alternative to the UFC. It’s the same product.....just a lot worse. Rebney was attacked constantly because he was trying to do something different. Letting Rebney go was the biggest mistake they ever made.

10 days ago
3/23/06
Posts: 11878

Bellator has been trash lately.  No promotion and I can never find the channel or time.  

Edited: 9 days ago
5/1/11
Posts: 4959

I don’t believe the available talent argument either.  Rebney’s tournament format was organically building stars.  Chandler, Lima, Pitbull brothers, Venom Page, Askren, Frodo, Shlemenko, Shamalaev, Pat Curran, Alvarez, Straus, Dantas, Koreshkov, Minakov etc. Rebney was utilizing a lot of Russian talent from M-1 before the UFC.  He was building his own talent. Viacom took a good thing and ruined it.