UnderGround Forums CSAC issues memo on dangers of weight cutting

2/21/15 11:05 PM
2/1/12
Posts: 4450
Strykr619 - Time for day of weigh ins with hydration test.
Seems like a day before weigh in with a hydration test is an option. Set a maximum dehydration percentage and have different penalties for percentages over, with financial being first and fights being cancelled if a fighter is deemed dehydrated beyond a medically decided maximum level.

I'm a layman, nobody dude, but that sounds like a common sense solution, which means it probably sucks and is totally lame. Phone Post 3.0
2/21/15 11:06 PM
2/1/12
Posts: 4451
Tug Dabone - I've competed in powerlifting under USAPL / IPF rules. Weigh-ins started two hours before the competition got under way. If you tried to do a drastic weight cut through dehydration you really were likely to diminish your performance, even though it's not considered an "endurance" sport. When I wrestled in high school our weigh-ins were less than an hour before our matches. I'd really like to see something similar in professional MMA.
Risk of concussion has already ruled this out. Phone Post 3.0
2/21/15 11:26 PM
10/13/09
Posts: 3077
Axel Foley - 
Tug Dabone - I've competed in powerlifting under USAPL / IPF rules. Weigh-ins started two hours before the competition got under way. If you tried to do a drastic weight cut through dehydration you really were likely to diminish your performance, even though it's not considered an "endurance" sport. When I wrestled in high school our weigh-ins were less than an hour before our matches. I'd really like to see something similar in professional MMA.
Risk of concussion has already ruled this out. Phone Post 3.0

yup.

2/22/15 12:30 AM
8/31/13
Posts: 910
Axel Foley -
Strykr619 - Time for day of weigh ins with hydration test.
Seems like a day before weigh in with a hydration test is an option. Set a maximum dehydration percentage and have different penalties for percentages over, with financial being first and fights being cancelled if a fighter is deemed dehydrated beyond a medically decided maximum level.

I'm a layman, nobody dude, but that sounds like a common sense solution, which means it probably sucks and is totally lame. Phone Post 3.0
You are correct. Whether day before, or same day, the requirement should be to make weight while hydrated. I don't see why this can't be feasible.

I understand a simple, inexpensive, urine test can be used to effectively measure hydration.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/12457417/

Make weight. Be hydrated while doing so, or don't fight. Safety first.

I would like to hear a compelling argument as to why this is not viable. Phone Post 3.0
2/22/15 12:56 AM
1/31/13
Posts: 1483
ErikMagraken -
Axel Foley -
Strykr619 - Time for day of weigh ins with hydration test.
Seems like a day before weigh in with a hydration test is an option. Set a maximum dehydration percentage and have different penalties for percentages over, with financial being first and fights being cancelled if a fighter is deemed dehydrated beyond a medically decided maximum level.

I'm a layman, nobody dude, but that sounds like a common sense solution, which means it probably sucks and is totally lame. Phone Post 3.0
You are correct. Whether day before, or same day, the requirement should be to make weight while hydrated. I don't see why this can't be feasible.

I understand a simple, inexpensive, urine test can be used to effectively measure hydration.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/12457417/

Make weight. Be hydrated while doing so, or don't fight. Safety first.

I would like to hear a compelling argument as to why this is not viable. Phone Post 3.0
Yep, this
Would be great to see mma become pure test of skill rather than who can radically dehydrate and rehydrate the best to achieve a size advantage Phone Post 3.0
2/22/15 1:03 AM
11/4/11
Posts: 3970
ErikMagraken -
Axel Foley -
Strykr619 - Time for day of weigh ins with hydration test.
Seems like a day before weigh in with a hydration test is an option. Set a maximum dehydration percentage and have different penalties for percentages over, with financial being first and fights being cancelled if a fighter is deemed dehydrated beyond a medically decided maximum level.

I'm a layman, nobody dude, but that sounds like a common sense solution, which means it probably sucks and is totally lame. Phone Post 3.0
You are correct. Whether day before, or same day, the requirement should be to make weight while hydrated. I don't see why this can't be feasible.

I understand a simple, inexpensive, urine test can be used to effectively measure hydration.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/12457417/

Make weight. Be hydrated while doing so, or don't fight. Safety first.

I would like to hear a compelling argument as to why this is not viable. Phone Post 3.0
You are correct that an inexpensive urine specific gravity test could ensure that fighters are not weighing in dehydrated. Doing this with a same day weigh-in is feasible, and would go a long way towards combating the excessive weight cutting we have now. Until recently, I would have argued that such a system would not be adopted because of concerns about losing fights last minute, but now that some important people are starting to talk about the dangers of weight cutting and placing fighter safety as the primary concern as opposed to a distant also-ran after the financial concerns of the promoter etc, I think we may see a system like that put in place. There would be some growing pains as fighters try to get used to the new system (or "game" the new system as the case may be), but I think everyone would adjust pretty quickly and the sport would be better for it. It will be safer for the fighters, and I am convinced that we will see better fights as guys will be fighting at 100%, as opposed to fighting 24 hours after a grueling weigh cut and rapid rehydration.
It will be very interesting to see what Andy does out in California Phone Post 3.0
2/22/15 1:12 AM
8/31/13
Posts: 911
Well said doctor.

The only argument against a hydration test is 'profit over safety'. Not very compelling.

The sport appears to be turning a corner on the PED issue. Hopefully the same will occur Rapid Extreme Weight Cuts.

Regulators need to remember 'safety over profit'. Yes there will be growing pains but it is in the long term interest for all stakeholders in this sport to have this issue addressed. Phone Post 3.0
2/22/15 1:18 AM
1/1/01
Posts: 12437
Oontyex - 
ErikMagraken -
Axel Foley -
Strykr619 - Time for day of weigh ins with hydration test.
Seems like a day before weigh in with a hydration test is an option. Set a maximum dehydration percentage and have different penalties for percentages over, with financial being first and fights being cancelled if a fighter is deemed dehydrated beyond a medically decided maximum level.

I'm a layman, nobody dude, but that sounds like a common sense solution, which means it probably sucks and is totally lame. Phone Post 3.0
You are correct. Whether day before, or same day, the requirement should be to make weight while hydrated. I don't see why this can't be feasible.

I understand a simple, inexpensive, urine test can be used to effectively measure hydration.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/12457417/

Make weight. Be hydrated while doing so, or don't fight. Safety first.

I would like to hear a compelling argument as to why this is not viable. Phone Post 3.0
Yep, this
Would be great to see mma become pure test of skill rather than who can radically dehydrate and rehydrate the best to achieve a size advantage Phone Post 3.0

Pure test of skill will never happen. You'll always have guys who lift weight for strength advantage or perform insane cardio workouts for an endurance advantage. Best you can hope for would be in the gym, testing to see who is most technically proficient. But who really cares about that, you do ?
Edited: 2/22/15 1:38 AM
10/13/09
Posts: 3083
SinCityHustler - 
Oontyex - 
ErikMagraken -
Axel Foley -
Strykr619 - Time for day of weigh ins with hydration test.
Seems like a day before weigh in with a hydration test is an option. Set a maximum dehydration percentage and have different penalties for percentages over, with financial being first and fights being cancelled if a fighter is deemed dehydrated beyond a medically decided maximum level.

I'm a layman, nobody dude, but that sounds like a common sense solution, which means it probably sucks and is totally lame. Phone Post 3.0
You are correct. Whether day before, or same day, the requirement should be to make weight while hydrated. I don't see why this can't be feasible.

I understand a simple, inexpensive, urine test can be used to effectively measure hydration.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/12457417/

Make weight. Be hydrated while doing so, or don't fight. Safety first.

I would like to hear a compelling argument as to why this is not viable. Phone Post 3.0
Yep, this
Would be great to see mma become pure test of skill rather than who can radically dehydrate and rehydrate the best to achieve a size advantage Phone Post 3.0

Pure test of skill will never happen. You'll always have guys who lift weight for strength advantage or perform insane cardio workouts for an endurance advantage. Best you can hope for would be in the gym, testing to see who is most technically proficient. But who really cares about that, you do ?

 

or guys with an insane reach advantage, or whatever....

 

 

i think the issue is, whether you include "hydration tests" or not, you still need to address the relatively impotent penalties that are currently in place for missing weight.  as it is now, 20% is not that big of a threat.....

 

it might be easier to simply enforce the rules currently in place versus adding more rules, that may or may not have any bite to them....

2/22/15 2:04 AM
12/17/07
Posts: 4926
I have to agree about weight cutting. They really need limitations on it. However as far as Cyborg and Rousey goes they both need to drop it. If Rousey can make weight in 24hrs with no issues then 135 is a good weight class for her. If Cyborg cannot then obviously she is too big. They shouldn't even mention each other. Phone Post 3.0
2/22/15 3:26 AM
1/31/13
Posts: 1484
BshMstr -
SinCityHustler - 
Oontyex - 
ErikMagraken -
Axel Foley -
Strykr619 - Time for day of weigh ins with hydration test.
Seems like a day before weigh in with a hydration test is an option. Set a maximum dehydration percentage and have different penalties for percentages over, with financial being first and fights being cancelled if a fighter is deemed dehydrated beyond a medically decided maximum level.

I'm a layman, nobody dude, but that sounds like a common sense solution, which means it probably sucks and is totally lame. Phone Post 3.0
You are correct. Whether day before, or same day, the requirement should be to make weight while hydrated. I don't see why this can't be feasible.

I understand a simple, inexpensive, urine test can be used to effectively measure hydration.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/12457417/

Make weight. Be hydrated while doing so, or don't fight. Safety first.

I would like to hear a compelling argument as to why this is not viable. Phone Post 3.0
Yep, this
Would be great to see mma become pure test of skill rather than who can radically dehydrate and rehydrate the best to achieve a size advantage Phone Post 3.0

Pure test of skill will never happen. You'll always have guys who lift weight for strength advantage or perform insane cardio workouts for an endurance advantage. Best you can hope for would be in the gym, testing to see who is most technically proficient. But who really cares about that, you do ?

 

or guys with an insane reach advantage, or whatever....

 

 

i think the issue is, whether you include "hydration tests" or not, you still need to address the relatively impotent penalties that are currently in place for missing weight.  as it is now, 20% is not that big of a threat.....

 

it might be easier to simply enforce the rules currently in place versus adding more rules, that may or may not have any bite to them....

Sure, there's lots of natural attributes that can be argued are advantageous , but weight seems to be an acceptable indicator

It's not perfect but makes it closer to a test of skills

Whilst it'll never be 100% a test of skill, gaming the weigh in system moves things further away Phone Post 3.0
2/22/15 3:41 AM
1/1/01
Posts: 42528
The article will fall on deaf ears. From the POV of the young athlete, it just sounds like fear mongering - the top guys cut lots of weight, so they need to as well. Nobody wants to cut 5lbs when their competition is cutting 15lbs.

However, I hardly cut any water (about 3 lbs) and I put on over 15lbs (even as much as 22lbs) after weighing in at 135. I also feel great getting on the scale, not like death. It's been a tough lesson though and I've messed up more weight cuts than I've got right. Phone Post 3.0
2/22/15 4:56 AM
2/24/11
Posts: 975
I would have preferred the UFC to focus on the weight cutting issue rather than PEDs. Phone Post 3.0