UnderGround Forums DFW, Masvidal in compensation dispute

6/5/20 3:00 PM
1/1/01
Posts: 64619

Jorge Masvidal beat Nate Diaz for the BMF and was believed to be next in line for a shot at welterweight champion Kamaru Usman, but apparently talks reached an impasse over compensation. Perhaps for leverage in the negotiation, perhaps because it's true, or perhaps both, UFC president Dana White recently announced that Gilbert Burns was likely next.

Masvidal is not impressed.

Shortly after the tweets UFC president Dana White was asked for his reaction.

“I think everybody wants more money,” said White. “I think everybody wants more money in all these other sports. Masvidal says, ‘You’ve got enough money to buy islands.’ Let me repeat for the f***ing billionth time: I did not buy an island, OK? We did not buy an island.

“The reason we’re doing the Island is so that fights can go and these kids from Europe and the rest of the world can make money and can work. I think a lot of people are really frustrated and confused – or whatever the situation is right now.”

“Anybody that doesn’t want to fight doesn’t have to fight, including Masvidal and Jon Jones and all these other guys. It doesn’t have to be because of the pandemic. These guys are independent contractors. This isn’t like the NFL where I can make you: ‘You come to practice and you do this or you’re going to get fined or you’re going to get this.’ These guys can do whatever they want. They can say whatever they want.

“… We’re not begging people to fight. We’re offering fights because in our contract, I have to give you three fights a year. You have the ability to turn them down and not take them.”

h/t Nolan KingMMA Junkie

6/5/20 3:19 PM
4/22/07
Posts: 70560

Matt Mitrione couldnt "say whatever he wanted" about a dude beating up girls.

6/5/20 5:05 PM
2/26/14
Posts: 896

Why make me fight for half of what I made on my last fight cause the other dude can’t draw?

 

 

His own question answered.

6/5/20 6:17 PM
10/19/14
Posts: 1258

Jorge Masvidal doesn't understand basic economics. I'm shocked.

Edited: 6/5/20 6:42 PM
10/27/03
Posts: 26269

“These guys are independent contractors. This isn’t like the NFL where I can make you: ‘You come to practice and you do this or you’re going to get fined or you’re going to get this.’ These guys can do whatever they want. They can say whatever they want.”

 

.... “but they can’t make a living anywhere else because I will stop them doing that and I’ll crush them if they try. But they’re independent contractors and I can’t make them do anything.”

Edited: 6/5/20 6:46 PM
9/19/13
Posts: 8475

Jones might have set off a chain reaction.

 

If Masvidal leaves, it's going to get ugly real quick.

 

UFC's stock will plummet as two of their biggest stars just walk out.

 

It will be the equivolent of Steve Austin bouncing on WWF back in the late 90's and how that affected the entire industry.

6/5/20 6:51 PM
1/1/01
Posts: 37363
oranos - 

Jones might have set off a chain reaction.

 

If Masvidal leaves, it's going to get ugly real quick.

 

UFC's stock will plummet as two of their biggest stars just walk out.

 

It will be the equivolent of Steve Austin bouncing on WWF back in the late 90's and how that affected the entire industry.


Signing with ESPN set off the chain reaction, imo. This gives fighters a bigger platform than they've ever had before and pundits willing to back said fighters over the organization.
6/5/20 7:18 PM
8/26/11
Posts: 4062

Let em go!

6/5/20 7:31 PM
8/31/07
Posts: 7170
Liyon -
oranos - 

Jones might have set off a chain reaction.

 

If Masvidal leaves, it's going to get ugly real quick.

 

UFC's stock will plummet as two of their biggest stars just walk out.

 

It will be the equivolent of Steve Austin bouncing on WWF back in the late 90's and how that affected the entire industry.


Signing with ESPN set off the chain reaction, imo. This gives fighters a bigger platform than they've ever had before and pundits willing to back said fighters over the organization.

This is a great point I haven't seen made.

Was expecting you to say ESPN paying in advance for years of presumed baseline ppv buys has given fighters far less leverage, as buyrate doesn't matter to the promoter  , who has already been paid.

6/5/20 7:59 PM
9/21/11
Posts: 661

The UFC isn't alone in this, just look at the disputes with the MLB and players union. But the thing is, baseball can't go on with just the players willing to play, it's unionized so it's either all or none. And they're negotiating what's worth playing and his much of a pay cut. 

White kind of helped make an argument in some ways for a union here. 

6/5/20 8:39 PM
11/23/09
Posts: 145
Gennady Goblin -

If you don't like what you make, take up another job. Let's see how much Jorge makes loading up boxes at UPS. A few months of that and maybe he'll get excited to do a cage fight for a few mil.

A few mil....   you are delusional.   He 100% walked away with less than 1.5m for fighting Diaz.

 

Still better than anything else he would be doing...

6/5/20 8:40 PM
5/22/17
Posts: 1860

Colby was right once again lol Jorge priced himself out. Feed the journeyman to Colby, Colby will bring jorges stock wayyy down. 

6/5/20 9:26 PM
8/20/03
Posts: 153224

Maybe Jorge and Jones both went to the Tito Ortiz school of negotiation?

6/5/20 10:13 PM
3/16/15
Posts: 26718
Jorge is a journeyman.

Hope he finds some other employer that can pay what the UFC pays.

Fuck him
6/5/20 11:39 PM
1/1/01
Posts: 5890
FingerorMoon -

“These guys are independent contractors. This isn’t like the NFL where I can make you: ‘You come to practice and you do this or you’re going to get fined or you’re going to get this.’ These guys can do whatever they want. They can say whatever they want.”

 

.... “but they can’t make a living anywhere else because I will stop them doing that and I’ll crush them if they try. But they’re independent contractors and I can’t make them do anything.”

Exactly, independent contractors who are not permitted to independently contract or provide their services to anyone else. 

6/6/20 1:05 AM
2/27/15
Posts: 3858
Chappie -
FingerorMoon -

“These guys are independent contractors. This isn’t like the NFL where I can make you: ‘You come to practice and you do this or you’re going to get fined or you’re going to get this.’ These guys can do whatever they want. They can say whatever they want.”

 

.... “but they can’t make a living anywhere else because I will stop them doing that and I’ll crush them if they try. But they’re independent contractors and I can’t make them do anything.”

Exactly, independent contractors who are not permitted to independently contract or provide their services to anyone else. 

U can still be an independent contractor and sign an exclusive agreement. Doesn’t make them an employee/employee relationship. Masvidal agreed to terms for x number of fights for x period of time. He should honour his agreement. After his agreement expires, he can freely go anywhere else. I sign exclusivity  contracts with all my customers every single week - I’m not their employer & they aren’t mine. But they can’t just abandon our agreed terms in the middle of the deal because they think they can get a better deal. 
That’s not to say that I think Masvidal shouldn’t get more money. I think all fighters should get a bigger piece of the pie. 
But Masvidal is throwing his toys out of the pram a bit by asking to be released. And if I was ufc - why on earth would I release him before his contract expires after promoting his last fight to death. It’s all likely just a negotiation plot & he will probably end up with a better deal. Same as jones. 

6/6/20 2:22 AM
6/17/16
Posts: 240

Why do Masvidal think he would get better pay somewhere else?

Everybody knows that as soon as he faces one of the TOP guys he gets dominated and humiliated.

Usman, Covington, Burns and Edwards would all destroy him.  Probably Mcgregor too. 

6/6/20 3:50 AM
1/14/12
Posts: 6062

Just my 2 cents but is the fact there’s no live gate affecting what theses guys have been offered lately or just UFC being cheap.

 

6/6/20 5:01 AM
9/22/11
Posts: 7953

Jorge is a big star he deserves to get paid.

You have maybe 4 stars and jorge is one of them.

Edited: 6/6/20 11:33 AM
11/24/13
Posts: 2625

DFW: "These guys can do whatever they want".

Uhh, no they can't YA PRICK! Release them and then you can say that. Until then, it is corrupt as fuck that the UFC doesn't have to follow the Ali Act.

Jones deserves a PAY CUT btw. He's lost his last TWO fights and is a PR nightmare. Serial liar, cheater, and criminal. Just release him.

6/6/20 11:21 AM
7/10/02
Posts: 23613
ChiefMac - 
Chappie -
FingerorMoon -

“These guys are independent contractors. This isn’t like the NFL where I can make you: ‘You come to practice and you do this or you’re going to get fined or you’re going to get this.’ These guys can do whatever they want. They can say whatever they want.”

 

.... “but they can’t make a living anywhere else because I will stop them doing that and I’ll crush them if they try. But they’re independent contractors and I can’t make them do anything.”

Exactly, independent contractors who are not permitted to independently contract or provide their services to anyone else. 

U can still be an independent contractor and sign an exclusive agreement. Doesn’t make them an employee/employee relationship. Masvidal agreed to terms for x number of fights for x period of time. He should honour his agreement. After his agreement expires, he can freely go anywhere else. I sign exclusivity  contracts with all my customers every single week - I’m not their employer & they aren’t mine. But they can’t just abandon our agreed terms in the middle of the deal because they think they can get a better deal. 
That’s not to say that I think Masvidal shouldn’t get more money. I think all fighters should get a bigger piece of the pie. 
But Masvidal is throwing his toys out of the pram a bit by asking to be released. And if I was ufc - why on earth would I release him before his contract expires after promoting his last fight to death. It’s all likely just a negotiation plot & he will probably end up with a better deal. Same as jones. 


You are all right, and that's why there's no clear cut answers.

Overall, the UFC doesn't pay enough, but they do that with almost all fighters. It's not like Masdival is getting specifically shafted.

The UFC has built something (and certainly CONTRACTS!!!) where they have almost all the leverage... and they use the fuck out of it.

At the same time, if Jorge made 1.5M last fight, he should be grateful, not bitter! And understand that if he wins the belt, then he too will have lots of leverage and other huge paydays, even if that one is so-so.

6/6/20 11:40 AM
2/27/15
Posts: 3859
Nytron -

DFW: "These guys can do whatever they want".

Uhh, no they can't YA PRICK! Release them and then you can say that. Until then, it is corrupt as fuck that the UFC doesn't have to follow the Ali Act.

Jones deserves a PAY CUT btw. He's lost his last TWO fights and is a PR nightmare. Serial liar, cheater, and criminal. Just release him.

But they can do what they want...they can fight or not fight for the duration of their agreement for the price they agreed upon. After the contract expires they are free to test their worth elsewhere or stay. People don’t seem to grasp the benefit of fighting for the ufc as a promotion...how much money ufc would have spent plastering masvidals face all over Times Square for his BMF fight. Now after investing in him, he wants to just leave before his contracts expires and allow a competitor to value off their investment. He may have a new level of public interest now & believes his worth is more than his contract value, but that’s the risk you assume when you sign it. It’s also fair to say that if you’re happy for the ufc to increase fighter pay mid contract due to a few good wins, they should also be allowed to reduce it after a loss, mid contract. Can u imagine the uproar if that happened. 
the ufc should dedicate more revenue to all the fighters, so Masvidal is not wrong when he said he’s worth more money - they all are. But dana isn’t wrong when he said Masvidal is free to do what he likes. But what he likes doesn’t include fucking the promotion over. 

6/6/20 4:15 PM
9/1/10
Posts: 3087

Silly question here but say Jones is adament he wants out but Dana won't release him because he has 3 fights left on his contract.

So Jones takes the fight, does media etc saying he wants out etc and generally being anti ufc etc and only agreed to this fight to complete his contract. 

Then come fight time taps out as soon as the fight starts before a punch has been thrown.

Dana either has to release him 2 fights early or face a repeat performance. 

 

Jones's stock is unlikely to fall since it would be clear what he was doing and why. Can now go fight for whoever he wants. 

 

What if he just shoots a double leg giving an easy guillotine? Difficult to prove in that case. Dq wouldn't matter if applied retrospectively. He could even play the media before hand to set it up to not lose too much in way of value to other promoters. 

 

What's to stop someone doing this or something similar (having put more thought into it obviously)?

6/7/20 1:30 AM
2/27/15
Posts: 3860
Tinerrz -

Silly question here but say Jones is adament he wants out but Dana won't release him because he has 3 fights left on his contract.

So Jones takes the fight, does media etc saying he wants out etc and generally being anti ufc etc and only agreed to this fight to complete his contract. 

Then come fight time taps out as soon as the fight starts before a punch has been thrown.

Dana either has to release him 2 fights early or face a repeat performance. 

 

Jones's stock is unlikely to fall since it would be clear what he was doing and why. Can now go fight for whoever he wants. 

 

What if he just shoots a double leg giving an easy guillotine? Difficult to prove in that case. Dq wouldn't matter if applied retrospectively. He could even play the media before hand to set it up to not lose too much in way of value to other promoters. 

 

What's to stop someone doing this or something similar (having put more thought into it obviously)?

He couldn’t just go in and tap out on the mat. He could be in a world of trouble for that. Too much gambling involved. Commission could suspend him too. He would have to make it look convincing so as to avoid the accusation of match fixing...but in that case all he does is fuck his own value and legacy. Ufc will just roll on the show with whoever he gives his neck to. 
Ufc has their balls in a vice when it comes to contract renegotiations. The only time you get some decent leverage is if you fight out your last fight in your contract without renewing beforehand, just to test your value in the open market. Then the ufc aren’t dictating your worth. The highest offer is. But most fighters won’t risk it..the ufc gives them a contract bump just before their last fight and they resign for 3 more. 

 

6/7/20 1:59 AM
3/30/14
Posts: 6068
QQmoar -
Gennady Goblin -

If you don't like what you make, take up another job. Let's see how much Jorge makes loading up boxes at UPS. A few months of that and maybe he'll get excited to do a cage fight for a few mil.

A few mil....   you are delusional.   He 100% walked away with less than 1.5m for fighting Diaz.

 

Still better than anything else he would be doing...

Him and Nate were the main event of a sold out MSG show, there was a ton of promo for the event and it sold an estimated 920,000 PPVs which I guarantee him and Nate got a percentage of.   They made bank on that fight which is why hes holding out