UnderGround Forums Do you guys think Brian Ortega is proof that...

11 days ago
10/27/06
Posts: 154

...Gracie Jiu-Jitsu is more effective than the typical sport/tournament style BJJ that is commonly taught?  How else can you explain why he is so successful in implementing his submissions against BJJ black-belt level opponents?  I don't even think Demian Maia or Jacare (who are two of the most accomplished BJJ competitors in MMA) have submitted black-belt level opponents as consistently as Ortega (in MMA).  What gives?

 

I know the Gracie bros. can sometimes come off like snake oil salesman, always selling their style of "Street" BJJ vs Sport BJJ, but I'm starting to think they may be right.  Thoughts?

11 days ago
1/1/01
Posts: 22622

That’s one guy. 

 

If a lot of gjj guy’s were wrecking house, then I might agree. 

 

And this is is coming from a guy that takes gjj

11 days ago
10/28/16
Posts: 2163
^^^ this
even a broken clock is right twice-a-day
11 days ago
6/27/02
Posts: 6372
He's just a talented dude who's tough and has a fighter's mindset, imo... I'm basing that on how damn good his boxing has become now too.
11 days ago
8/8/18
Posts: 715

You can have all the tools in the world but all that matters is how you choose to use them. 

11 days ago
5/9/06
Posts: 27731

More effective how?  Are you speaking strictly MMA effectiveness?  Street Fighting?  Sport BJJ Success?

I respect and enjoy how their school emphasizes the self defense aspects, especially at lower belts.  And I think that may help a lot with being more successful in street fighting.  

Your comparission to MAIA and Jacare is flawed.  They havn't fought the same competition, and even if they had, MMA math doesn't work.  Demien Maia's BJJ for MMA has proven to be the best in MMA, IMO.  His ability to completely dominate opponents bell to bell (or bell to sub) is unmatched. Ortega has relied on tremendous heart and toughness in many of his fights.  He's grasped victory from the jaws of defeat multiple times.  Ortega is one tough son of gun, and his BJJ is great, but Maia's is more effective for MMA.

11 days ago
1/14/03
Posts: 7269

What lineage of "sport style" jiu jitsu are you referring to?  Not trying to be a smart ass. I'm just researching the best mma sub guys I can think of and most come from a Gracie lineage. Shinya aoki for example is a yuki nakai black belt which nakai is a Carlos Gracie black belt. 

 

As of this post, my short answer to your question is Ortega is just the latest guy to prove GJJ is the best JJ. 

10 days ago
5/7/04
Posts: 1845

There are just some people in this world who are actually special, like Ortega.  The fight with Cub was the showcase for that fact IMO, Cub was shook after the first submission at the end of round one, and Cub's legit.

10 days ago
10/5/11
Posts: 5105

This is mighty retarded. He is a good fighter who has adapted his bjj for mma. He has more situational awareness in scrambles than maybe anyone right now. That's why he's catching these subs. Not because he used Gracie Jiujitsu and not Sport Jiujitsu.

 

10 days ago
1/1/01
Posts: 38100
Jake95 -

This is mighty retarded. He is a good fighter who has adapted his bjj for mma. He has more situational awareness in scrambles than maybe anyone right now. That's why he's catching these subs. Not because he used Gracie Jiujitsu and not Sport Jiujitsu.

 

Just a thought, maybe he didn't adapt his BJJ for MMA?  Maybe his BJJ as trained and practiced was already suitable for MMA?  

10 days ago
12/29/08
Posts: 272

Brian was one of my first rolls in BJJ. He was a 14 year old yellow belt. He was the only one in the room who knew the spider guard well - which was looked at by the other guys as somewhat of a strange novelty. 

 

He was hungry for knowledge of all types, strong, coordinated and the thing that stuck out the most to me was he was always up for a crazy challenge. He had no fear.

10 days ago
11/29/11
Posts: 10487

He's a great example of how peds benefit you long term. Similar to cyborg 

10 days ago
11/29/11
Posts: 10488
TrumpetDan -

Brian was one of my first rolls in BJJ. He was a 14 year old yellow belt. He was the only one in the room who knew the spider guard well - which was looked at by the other guys as somewhat of a strange novelty. 

 

He was hungry for knowledge of all types, strong, coordinated and the thing that stuck out the most to me was he was always up for a crazy challenge. He had no fear.

You've described most mma fighters lol

10 days ago
11/29/11
Posts: 10489
stevekt -
Jake95 -

This is mighty retarded. He is a good fighter who has adapted his bjj for mma. He has more situational awareness in scrambles than maybe anyone right now. That's why he's catching these subs. Not because he used Gracie Jiujitsu and not Sport Jiujitsu.

 

Just a thought, maybe he didn't adapt his BJJ for MMA?  Maybe his BJJ as trained and practiced was already suitable for MMA?  

Jake is correct imo. There isn't much of a grappling difference between the guys that practice sport bjj and bjj for mma. The guys doing sport bjj are usually just as good at bjj that works in actual fights but to compete in sport bjj they do the gay shit. It all comes down to the individual and like jake said how they handle the awareness of the scramble in mma, or the pace 

10 days ago
10/5/11
Posts: 5106
stevekt -
Jake95 -

This is mighty retarded. He is a good fighter who has adapted his bjj for mma. He has more situational awareness in scrambles than maybe anyone right now. That's why he's catching these subs. Not because he used Gracie Jiujitsu and not Sport Jiujitsu.

 

Just a thought, maybe he didn't adapt his BJJ for MMA?  Maybe his BJJ as trained and practiced was already suitable for MMA?  

100% if you're training bjj you will have to adapt it for MMA. Roger, as we all know, said 30% of bjj works in MMA.

Just off the top of my head what gracies love to do as the old guard of BJJ:

Closed guard, one of the best positions in pure BJJ, HORRIBLE for MMA

Any kind of collar choke, unrealistic

Collar drags and arms drags, unrealistic

Doble wrist control, pretty weak, see minotauro V Fedor

Feet on the hips ala Kron will only get you so far in the UFC as Firas Zahabi mentioned on one of his recent youtube AMAs. And you better be REALLY good from there.

Firas talks about the use of bjj only techniques and what they offer you. He mentions how De La Riva in MMA is essentially a no no but the advantages of all the years of studying the position and the dexterity of his legs and awareness of his opponents weight.

10 days ago
10/5/11
Posts: 5107

Relevant:

 

10 days ago
10/5/11
Posts: 5108

Amazing how fast he wrapped up the neck 

10 days ago
1/5/17
Posts: 27

The gracie method is better transistion into mma then sport bjj. Ortegas guard is sick I mean that thiago tavares fight had some of the nastiest elbow from the bottom and the punch block system was tight from guard. Ortega is a very scrambly and offensive minded when it comes to jiu jitsu so that a big part of his success. 

Pettis and cowboy have show to have some of the best control and offense off there back especially with there roots being in striking

Its very rare to see Maia/Jacare in guard but there top game is a thing of beauty. When Maia pulls half guard he usually has a lot of success.  

Kevin Casey wasn't super successful coming from the rickson linage. It really doesnt matter the style per say but more so the fighters abilty to perform when the lights are on.

10 days ago
2/3/10
Posts: 25093

Hes just long and lanky

10 days ago
11/12/11
Posts: 4652

I think it's more a reflection of Ortega's size / ability and dedication to training.

I say that because his subs are super slick but he's not doing (as far as I can recall) anything "special" he's is however super skilled at very fundamental techniques - which could be said for Maia.

9 days ago
8/13/13
Posts: 535

All I know is he's proof that homosexuals can be great fighters as well as limp wristed poo bandits 

9 days ago
5/8/16
Posts: 2398
Jake95 -

This is mighty retarded. He is a good fighter who has adapted his bjj for mma. He has more situational awareness in scrambles than maybe anyone right now. That's why he's catching these subs. Not because he used Gracie Jiujitsu and not Sport Jiujitsu.

 

This. If Brian had trained sport bjj and no gjj I think he would be just as successful. He is just gifted