UnderGround Forums Extreme weight cutting is sanctioned cheating.

11 days ago
2/27/12
Posts: 562

I know some will say that if you can make the weight then you are good to go but I agree with joe rogan, that extreme cuts are sanctioned cheating.

 

We have seen this issue with Mcgregor. He had to look like a skeleton to fight Aldo and has no chance of remaining in that division long term.

 

The same can be said of Till, who has no business fighting at 170.

11 days ago
2/17/03
Posts: 11009
It's not cheating, since everybody has the opportunity to do it.

Moreover, as the careers of people like Frankie Edgar, Daniel Cormier, and Bobby Knuckles have shown, it's not necessarily an advantage.
11 days ago
1/19/12
Posts: 29817
wiggum - It's not cheating, since everybody has the opportunity to do it.

Moreover, as the careers of people like Frankie Edgar, Daniel Cormier, and Bobby Knuckles have shown, it's not necessarily an advantage.

 

“It's not cheating, since everybody has the opportunity to do it.”

 

How is that at all logical? Well, everyone has an opportunity to do steroids, so that’s not cheating.  That settles everything I guess...

11 days ago
2/17/03
Posts: 11016
ABCTT_GROUNDnLB - 
wiggum - It's not cheating, since everybody has the opportunity to do it.

Moreover, as the careers of people like Frankie Edgar, Daniel Cormier, and Bobby Knuckles have shown, it's not necessarily an advantage.

 

“It's not cheating, since everybody has the opportunity to do it.”

 

How is that at all logical? Well, everyone has an opportunity to do steroids, so that’s not cheating.  That settles everything I guess...


Because steroids are prohibited. And fighters are tested for them. Therefore, people constricted by integrity and/or fear don't take (or really have) the opportunity.

Weight cutting has an opportunity: be big for your weight class.

Weight cutting has a cost: worse training camps, less energy, higher chance of getting KOd.

People make their decisions based on this calculation.

It would only be cheating if the hydration testing was brought in and people gamed that system.
11 days ago
2/6/15
Posts: 5053

There's no such thing as sanctioned cheating . I mean , if it is sanctioned ,it is allowed? Does it suck ? Sure. Could it cause long term health benefits? Yep. Are some able to drop more weight than others, granting them an advantage? Of course. It's all allowed though .

11 days ago
2/1/08
Posts: 12084
wiggum -
ABCTT_GROUNDnLB - 
wiggum - It's not cheating, since everybody has the opportunity to do it.

Moreover, as the careers of people like Frankie Edgar, Daniel Cormier, and Bobby Knuckles have shown, it's not necessarily an advantage.

 

“It's not cheating, since everybody has the opportunity to do it.”

 

How is that at all logical? Well, everyone has an opportunity to do steroids, so that’s not cheating.  That settles everything I guess...


Because steroids are prohibited. And fighters are tested for them. Therefore, people constricted by integrity and/or fear don't take (or really have) the opportunity.

Weight cutting has an opportunity: be big for your weight class.

Weight cutting has a cost: worse training camps, less energy, higher chance of getting KOd.

People make their decisions based on this calculation.

It would only be cheating if the hydration testing was brought in and people gamed that system.

Agree with this.

 

I'll also stipulate that I think extreme weight cutting is by far the biggest health risk in MMA today, and rules should be changed to address it.  

 

But, it's not cheating.  You're free to fight in whatever weight class you feel comfortable.  If you have to kill yourself to get there - it's on you. 

 

Same as guys who kill themselves in training camp and either rack up injuries or concussions that take years off their careers (if not worse).

11 days ago
11/14/16
Posts: 1046
wiggum -
ABCTT_GROUNDnLB - 
wiggum - It's not cheating, since everybody has the opportunity to do it.

Moreover, as the careers of people like Frankie Edgar, Daniel Cormier, and Bobby Knuckles have shown, it's not necessarily an advantage.

 

“It's not cheating, since everybody has the opportunity to do it.”

 

How is that at all logical? Well, everyone has an opportunity to do steroids, so that’s not cheating.  That settles everything I guess...


Because steroids are prohibited. And fighters are tested for them. Therefore, people constricted by integrity and/or fear don't take (or really have) the opportunity.

Weight cutting has an opportunity: be big for your weight class.

Weight cutting has a cost: worse training camps, less energy, higher chance of getting KOd.

People make their decisions based on this calculation.

It would only be cheating if the hydration testing was brought in and people gamed that system.

Great post

11 days ago
1/1/01
Posts: 13784
Until there a better guidelines by the commission, you can call it cheating.

Early on, fighters used grabbing the fence. It wasn't like by many but was a smart strategy to prevent being taken down. Fighters using this did not cheat...Until the rule was added. Same thing with weight cutting. They are not breaking the rules. Not cheating
11 days ago
4/23/02
Posts: 90567

getting stronger is sanctioned cheating.

 

learning new techniques is sanctioned cheating

 

 gaining experience is sanctioned cheating

 

good thread op!

11 days ago
3/21/12
Posts: 9690
It's not cheating but I don't see why there aren't same day weigh ins or something. Huge weight cuts shorten careers and increase the risk of brain damage.
11 days ago
1/1/01
Posts: 10321
wiggum -
ABCTT_GROUNDnLB - 
wiggum - It's not cheating, since everybody has the opportunity to do it.

Moreover, as the careers of people like Frankie Edgar, Daniel Cormier, and Bobby Knuckles have shown, it's not necessarily an advantage.

 

“It's not cheating, since everybody has the opportunity to do it.”

 

How is that at all logical? Well, everyone has an opportunity to do steroids, so that’s not cheating.  That settles everything I guess...


Because steroids are prohibited. And fighters are tested for them. Therefore, people constricted by integrity and/or fear don't take (or really have) the opportunity.

Weight cutting has an opportunity: be big for your weight class.

Weight cutting has a cost: worse training camps, less energy, higher chance of getting KOd.

People make their decisions based on this calculation.

It would only be cheating if the hydration testing was brought in and people gamed that system.

Your reasoning that it’s legal since everyone can do it doesn’t make sense.

That’s exactly the debate. Should wright cutting be prohibited and considered cheating? At a point EVERYTHING is considered fair game until it’s defined as against the rules. Head-kicking a downed opponent, hair-pulling, groin-striking were all legal at some point.

11 days ago
2/17/03
Posts: 11020
Slash - 
wiggum -
ABCTT_GROUNDnLB - 
wiggum - It's not cheating, since everybody has the opportunity to do it.

Moreover, as the careers of people like Frankie Edgar, Daniel Cormier, and Bobby Knuckles have shown, it's not necessarily an advantage.

 

“It's not cheating, since everybody has the opportunity to do it.”

 

How is that at all logical? Well, everyone has an opportunity to do steroids, so that’s not cheating.  That settles everything I guess...


Because steroids are prohibited. And fighters are tested for them. Therefore, people constricted by integrity and/or fear don't take (or really have) the opportunity.

Weight cutting has an opportunity: be big for your weight class.

Weight cutting has a cost: worse training camps, less energy, higher chance of getting KOd.

People make their decisions based on this calculation.

It would only be cheating if the hydration testing was brought in and people gamed that system.

Your reasoning that it’s legal since everyone can do it doesn’t make sense.

That’s exactly the debate. Should wright cutting be prohibited and considered cheating? At a point EVERYTHING is considered fair game until it’s defined as against the rules. Head-kicking a downed opponent, hair-pulling, groin-striking were all legal at some point.


I support rules to limit weight cutting. One FC provides a good model. Some of the ACs are implementing rules that are promising.

But until those rules are implemented, there is nothing dishonorable about it. Just like - as a poster previously mentioned - there was nothing dishonorable or illegitimate about cage grabbing UNTIL it was prohibited.
11 days ago
3/15/07
Posts: 3548

If you aren’t breaking a rule you aren’t cheating

what the fuck is sanctioned cheating?

11 days ago
1/1/01
Posts: 45025

big weight cuts often come back to hurt the fighters performance To compare with steroids ? U have no brain .Anyone who says its cheating has for sure never competed Its part of any sport with weight classes The best guys dont cut that much Others cut to be the biggest for the weight Thats the name of the game,If u dont understand that u know nothing about sports with weight classes

11 days ago
1/1/01
Posts: 2377
Extreme weight cutting is a problem and should be addressed for fighter health. However, it isn't cheating.

What is cheating is contracting for a weight, and then purposefully coming in heavy and hoping the other fighter will feel pressured by UFC to take the fight against a hydrated and bigger fighter who broke the rules.
11 days ago
11/17/10
Posts: 42575

all the more reason guys like Frankie Edgar are true contenders for GOAT status

props to T city, but Frankie is at least 2 weight classes below ortega and many of his opponents

when frankie was at 155, he basically didnt have a weight cut.....he'd just run/work out and lose a couple of pounds for weigh in...he usually walked around in the low 160s

that is pretty fucking amazing when you think about it

11 days ago
10/12/13
Posts: 2729

It's not cheating but it says something when someone needs to be the bigger man in a fight.

Case in point, McGregor's first loss in the UFC was to someone who McGregor didn't enjoy a size advantage over.

Edited: 11 days ago
10/9/10
Posts: 11741

Call me an idiot but I don’t think Rogan or OP is using the word “cheating” in a literal sense, I interpreted it as “these fighters are gaining an unfair physical advantage by being substantially heavier on fight night, and commissions are allowing it.” 

11 days ago
2/17/03
Posts: 11029
MasterofMartialArts - 

Call me an idiot but I don’t think Rogan or OP is using the word “cheating” in a literal sense, I interpreted it as “these fighters are gaining an unfair physical advantage by being substantially heavier on fight night, and commissions are allowing it.” 


But it's a level playing field. Everyone has the opportunity to do it.
11 days ago
2/27/12
Posts: 563

Alex Perez weighed in at 126 and fought the next day at 146.

This represents a dehydration of 14%

Alex has been advised to move up a division.

The commission could introduce a maximum  of 10%.

10 days ago
2/17/03
Posts: 11031
Boptrotme4u - 

Alex Perez weighed in at 126 and fought the next day at 146.

This represents a dehydration of 14%

Alex has been advised to move up a division.

The commission could introduce a maximum  of 10%.


I know the PA athletic commission is doing something like this. It will be annoying for fighters at first but is ultimately very promising.
10 days ago
1/1/01
Posts: 7996
Cutting weight is not cheating at all, it's another form of conditioning... Similar to lifting to get stronger or stretching to increase flexibility. It takes time and practice to be able to do it better than others. It's a skill to be able to MAKE WEIGHT and rehydrate,and outperform your opponent.
Edited: 10 days ago
1/1/01
Posts: 10712

Fuck this app and the stupid ads

10 days ago
10/9/10
Posts: 11750
wiggum -
MasterofMartialArts - 

Call me an idiot but I don’t think Rogan or OP is using the word “cheating” in a literal sense, I interpreted it as “these fighters are gaining an unfair physical advantage by being substantially heavier on fight night, and commissions are allowing it.” 


But it's a level playing field. Everyone has the opportunity to do it.

I understand your point and agree with it, it’s not “cheating”. I think the point of what Rogan was saying was that it should be illegal. However it is not, and it was a poor choice of words because “sanctioned cheating” is an oxymoron. He also might mean morally cheating and not by rules/procedures. You know how philosophical that fucker can be. 

10 days ago
11/25/10
Posts: 1750

Extreme cardio training is sanctioned cheating.

 

See how easy this is?