UnderGround Forums Gastelum's Downfall

8 days ago
11/20/05
Posts: 21535
Going for a takedown exactly as Israel was out on his feet and ready to go in the 4th.
8 days ago
7/27/13
Posts: 2855

I agree I never understand that gameplan... 

8 days ago
12/11/04
Posts: 5691

He was exhausted

8 days ago
8/18/10
Posts: 13268

I was gonna say cream cheese 

8 days ago
8/3/11
Posts: 6885

So many fighters do that. I don’t understand it. Maybe it’s the fear of getting too aggressive and running into to something. 

8 days ago
7/27/13
Posts: 2856

Like it's good to mix it up.... But don't mix it up when you're dominating one aspect of fighting. It's like landing vicious ground and pound where the guy is almost out, or you have a fully locked kimura... Then just deciding to stand up to trade shots and "mix it up"

8 days ago
7/27/13
Posts: 2857
Sam Ortiz -

He was exhausted

But wouldn't shooting for a takedown and fighting for one against the cage burn even more energy?

8 days ago
1/1/01
Posts: 58621
Yes, poor choice.
8 days ago
1/15/07
Posts: 12995
StretchPlum - Going for a takedown exactly as Israel was out on his feet and ready to go in the 4th.

He was too gassed to finish at that point.

8 days ago
8/15/07
Posts: 15293
100% agreed.

I disagree that he was too gassed to finish. One more haymaker would have cinched it.
8 days ago
12/23/08
Posts: 33006

Especially so late into the fight where the dudes are sweaty as hell.

8 days ago
7/28/08
Posts: 1093

Fuckin peanut butter 

8 days ago
7/21/18
Posts: 361

Yep strange decision 

8 days ago
1/1/01
Posts: 22394
Yep, should have kept it standing.
8 days ago
9/9/14
Posts: 1121

Gastelum with EPO would be unstoppable, dude's chin is insane, with amazing power but you can't have both insane power and cardio together. 

8 days ago
1/17/03
Posts: 14460
StretchPlum - Going for a takedown exactly as Israel was out on his feet and ready to go in the 4th.

This

8 days ago
10/9/10
Posts: 13204
triforce -
Sam Ortiz -

He was exhausted

But wouldn't shooting for a takedown and fighting for one against the cage burn even more energy?

No because he didn’t shoot. He just clinched up Israel and held him, looked to be resting there also while SB was recovering from those shots. 

He was tired, he’s a wrestler. Survival instincts. 

8 days ago
7/15/17
Posts: 807

Burritos are his down fall ..  as they are for me 

8 days ago
6/17/16
Posts: 6533

He fought a stupid fight in my opinion even though he also turned in a great performance.

I thought if he had any chance of winning he needed to move forward constantly and try to back Adesanya onto the cage, fight inside as much as possible, or threaten with takedowns. I still think the key to beating Adesanya is to get in his face and really bully him but that is easier said than done obviously. Also Adesanya showed that he is ready for a tough fight and won't just wilt right away under pressure.

I know all of this is easy to say sitting around and watching on TV but just speaking objectively sitting at the end of a guy's strking range with your hands down when he has a 10.5" reach advantage and an extremely diverse arsenal of technical strikes just seems like a bad idea no matter how you cut it. I mean, it's always a bad idea to camp out at a range where your opponent can hit you but you can't hit them for starters and then sitting back and waiting to counter a guy that is extremely tricky with his offensive striking by using feints and unorthodox movements to open people up is also a bad idea. Put the two together and you really have a bad idea. The last thing you want is waiting around trying to be a reactive counter striker with a guy like Israel, that's exactly what he wants you to do. Keep your hands by your waste and sit at the edge of his range where he knows you can't touch him without blitzing in and he can hit you almost at will is just ludicrous, it's like a free gift. I would say that anybody who employs that gameplan against Adesanya is going to lose. Every fight he is really dominant in he gets people a little scared of his strikes and they start to hang back then he starts upping the razzle dazle a bit until he really gets them reacting exactly how he wants with feints and unorthodox unpredictable movements and then they start mirroring his shit lmost as if they have become hypnotized by the programming and then bang! they're fucking kilt dead.

Forward pressure, in his face, fight ugly in close as much as possible, use low kicks and teeps to fuck with his timing when he tries to come in if you can't push at him for a minute and constant griniding with clinching and takedown attempts or actual grappling seems like the best bet. Probably have to look out for his knees in the clinch but if you could grind on him with a collar tie and dirty box while threatening with takedowns I think you cold frustrate him and get him out of his rhythm. He's a guy that likes to be in control, doesn't seem to be in love of chaos.

Also somebody with really big power could catch him slipping he is hittable and seems to get hit good and clean a few times in each one of his tougher fights.

8 days ago
1/1/01
Posts: 21508
Target_the_Gash - 

He fought a stupid fight in my opinion even though he also turned in a great performance.

I thought if he had any chance of winning he needed to move forward constantly and try to back Adesanya onto the cage, fight inside as much as possible, or threaten with takedowns. I still think the key to beating Adesanya is to get in his face and really bully him but that is easier said than done obviously. Also Adesanya showed that he is ready for a tough fight and won't just wilt right away under pressure.

I know all of this is easy to say sitting around and watching on TV but just speaking objectively sitting at the end of a guy's strking range with your hands down when he has a 10.5" reach advantage and an extremely diverse arsenal of technical strikes just seems like a bad idea no matter how you cut it. I mean, it's always a bad idea to camp out at a range where your opponent can hit you but you can't hit them for starters and then sitting back and waiting to counter a guy that is extremely tricky with his offensive striking by using feints and unorthodox movements to open people up is also a bad idea. Put the two together and you really have a bad idea. The last thing you want is waiting around trying to be a reactive counter striker with a guy like Israel, that's exactly what he wants you to do. Keep your hands by your waste and sit at the edge of his range where he knows you can't touch him without blitzing in and he can hit you almost at will is just ludicrous, it's like a free gift. I would say that anybody who employs that gameplan against Adesanya is going to lose. Every fight he is really dominant in he gets people a little scared of his strikes and they start to hang back then he starts upping the razzle dazle a bit until he really gets them reacting exactly how he wants with feints and unorthodox unpredictable movements and then they start mirroring his shit lmost as if they have become hypnotized by the programming and then bang! they're fucking kilt dead.

Forward pressure, in his face, fight ugly in close as much as possible, use low kicks and teeps to fuck with his timing when he tries to come in if you can't push at him for a minute and constant griniding with clinching and takedown attempts or actual grappling seems like the best bet. Probably have to look out for his knees in the clinch but if you could grind on him with a collar tie and dirty box while threatening with takedowns I think you cold frustrate him and get him out of his rhythm. He's a guy that likes to be in control, doesn't seem to be in love of chaos.

Also somebody with really big power could catch him slipping he is hittable and seems to get hit good and clean a few times in each one of his tougher fights.


You're exactly right if we're talking about robots that have no cardio concerns and can just go forward constantly, otherwise it reads like someone who has no idea wtf they're talking about.

Also, go train for a day against someone that is 7 inches taller than you, a good 10lbs heavier than you, and is an overall better striker, and tell me how easy it is to slip their strikes constantly.
8 days ago
8/13/13
Posts: 1562
Moist Gracie -

I was gonna say cream cheese 

Cream cheese pies more like it in his ass, and probably on those modest succulent tits he possesses 

8 days ago
10/9/10
Posts: 13206
Target_the_Gash -

He fought a stupid fight in my opinion even though he also turned in a great performance.

I thought if he had any chance of winning he needed to move forward constantly and try to back Adesanya onto the cage, fight inside as much as possible, or threaten with takedowns. I still think the key to beating Adesanya is to get in his face and really bully him but that is easier said than done obviously. Also Adesanya showed that he is ready for a tough fight and won't just wilt right away under pressure.

I know all of this is easy to say sitting around and watching on TV but just speaking objectively sitting at the end of a guy's strking range with your hands down when he has a 10.5" reach advantage and an extremely diverse arsenal of technical strikes just seems like a bad idea no matter how you cut it. I mean, it's always a bad idea to camp out at a range where your opponent can hit you but you can't hit them for starters and then sitting back and waiting to counter a guy that is extremely tricky with his offensive striking by using feints and unorthodox movements to open people up is also a bad idea. Put the two together and you really have a bad idea. The last thing you want is waiting around trying to be a reactive counter striker with a guy like Israel, that's exactly what he wants you to do. Keep your hands by your waste and sit at the edge of his range where he knows you can't touch him without blitzing in and he can hit you almost at will is just ludicrous, it's like a free gift. I would say that anybody who employs that gameplan against Adesanya is going to lose. Every fight he is really dominant in he gets people a little scared of his strikes and they start to hang back then he starts upping the razzle dazle a bit until he really gets them reacting exactly how he wants with feints and unorthodox unpredictable movements and then they start mirroring his shit lmost as if they have become hypnotized by the programming and then bang! they're fucking kilt dead.

Forward pressure, in his face, fight ugly in close as much as possible, use low kicks and teeps to fuck with his timing when he tries to come in if you can't push at him for a minute and constant griniding with clinching and takedown attempts or actual grappling seems like the best bet. Probably have to look out for his knees in the clinch but if you could grind on him with a collar tie and dirty box while threatening with takedowns I think you cold frustrate him and get him out of his rhythm. He's a guy that likes to be in control, doesn't seem to be in love of chaos.

Also somebody with really big power could catch him slipping he is hittable and seems to get hit good and clean a few times in each one of his tougher fights.

I’m not gonna pretend I read your entire post but I think I got the idea. 

I wouldn’t say Kelvin fought a stupid fight per say, but there could have been some better decision making. I think he sort of fell in love with that left hand after he hurt SB in the first and started headhunting a bit. 

I actually was impressed with Kelvins striking, not just the technique but the reads he was making on SB were impressive. SB would circle left and Kelvin met him with the jab, he did get SB to bite on some feints and landed his left many times off those. 

I think that he pressured SB like he should have but like you said it’s not easy to get close. SB is a master of distance control, cuts tight angles and was landing that counter right. Kelvin kept the pressure on but he was eating shots for his troubles, and the times he did land significantly on SB were in those wild exchanges where Kelvin had to eat a few. So my guess is he was calculating the risk of when to jam the space of SB. 

I think SBs distance control is actually a more effective way of avoiding takedowns than his actual TDD, it’s so hard to get to his legs. I will say I expected more kicks out of Kelvin, some low kicks would have helped him slow the movement of SB. 

One thing I noticed is a lot of times they did get in close, SB grabbed the Thai plum and Kelvin immediately got out of there, you could tell he trained for that and was aware of the danger. Perhaps he watched some of SBs kickboxing fights and didn’t want to engage in the clinch for too long. 

I will say I also think SB broke from the clinch effectively any time Kelvin engaged, and immediately worked to be separated. 

Overall I don’t think Kelvin fucked up in any major way, I thought he had a great performance. I think SB is just that good. To come back after being hurt and do what he did to Kelvin is something nobody has done. It was actually pretty cool seeing a boxing style vs a kickboxing stylist. It was like an old school discipline vs discipline matchup, and it was better than expected. 

To touch on what you said about the razzle dazzle of SB. It reminds me of Anderson. Once SB lets loose and starts landing he’s a fucking sniper, he starts lighting you up one strike at a time. He feints and he baits you right into his shots. Kelvin is one of the best guys and he had a great night, he looked crisp. 

SB is just that good. 

8 days ago
6/17/16
Posts: 6537
Whambo -
Target_the_Gash - 

He fought a stupid fight in my opinion even though he also turned in a great performance.

I thought if he had any chance of winning he needed to move forward constantly and try to back Adesanya onto the cage, fight inside as much as possible, or threaten with takedowns. I still think the key to beating Adesanya is to get in his face and really bully him but that is easier said than done obviously. Also Adesanya showed that he is ready for a tough fight and won't just wilt right away under pressure.

I know all of this is easy to say sitting around and watching on TV but just speaking objectively sitting at the end of a guy's strking range with your hands down when he has a 10.5" reach advantage and an extremely diverse arsenal of technical strikes just seems like a bad idea no matter how you cut it. I mean, it's always a bad idea to camp out at a range where your opponent can hit you but you can't hit them for starters and then sitting back and waiting to counter a guy that is extremely tricky with his offensive striking by using feints and unorthodox movements to open people up is also a bad idea. Put the two together and you really have a bad idea. The last thing you want is waiting around trying to be a reactive counter striker with a guy like Israel, that's exactly what he wants you to do. Keep your hands by your waste and sit at the edge of his range where he knows you can't touch him without blitzing in and he can hit you almost at will is just ludicrous, it's like a free gift. I would say that anybody who employs that gameplan against Adesanya is going to lose. Every fight he is really dominant in he gets people a little scared of his strikes and they start to hang back then he starts upping the razzle dazle a bit until he really gets them reacting exactly how he wants with feints and unorthodox unpredictable movements and then they start mirroring his shit lmost as if they have become hypnotized by the programming and then bang! they're fucking kilt dead.

Forward pressure, in his face, fight ugly in close as much as possible, use low kicks and teeps to fuck with his timing when he tries to come in if you can't push at him for a minute and constant griniding with clinching and takedown attempts or actual grappling seems like the best bet. Probably have to look out for his knees in the clinch but if you could grind on him with a collar tie and dirty box while threatening with takedowns I think you cold frustrate him and get him out of his rhythm. He's a guy that likes to be in control, doesn't seem to be in love of chaos.

Also somebody with really big power could catch him slipping he is hittable and seems to get hit good and clean a few times in each one of his tougher fights.


You're exactly right if we're talking about robots that have no cardio concerns and can just go forward constantly, otherwise it reads like someone who has no idea wtf they're talking about.

Also, go train for a day against someone that is 7 inches taller than you, a good 10lbs heavier than you, and is an overall better striker, and tell me how easy it is to slip their strikes constantly.

I'm not discounting all of that obviously that aspect of the fight is a major component of how a fight goes I'm just saying strip all of that aside and ignore the human considerations and you still have a much shorter guy whose main attrbute is durability trying to beat a much taller guy that is a striking prodigy and uses his clean technique combined with unorthodox movement and lots of feints to confuse people and walk them onto well placed precise strikes. That part of the equation is not going to change no matter how you wan to look at it so you have to do something to mitigate it and sitting on the outside with your hands by your waste doesn't seem to be the answer.

Not trying to be a dick just stating whast I think is obvious. I know I personally can't do shit to Israel Adesanya and I don't think I'm a better fighter than Kelvin Gastelum, that's not what I'm trying to say. I'm just analyzing what I saw on my TV but you also get one of the best views inthe house due to multiple camera angles.

8 days ago
6/17/16
Posts: 6538

waist/ waste same diff

8 days ago
10/9/10
Posts: 13207
Whambo -
Target_the_Gash - 

He fought a stupid fight in my opinion even though he also turned in a great performance.

I thought if he had any chance of winning he needed to move forward constantly and try to back Adesanya onto the cage, fight inside as much as possible, or threaten with takedowns. I still think the key to beating Adesanya is to get in his face and really bully him but that is easier said than done obviously. Also Adesanya showed that he is ready for a tough fight and won't just wilt right away under pressure.

I know all of this is easy to say sitting around and watching on TV but just speaking objectively sitting at the end of a guy's strking range with your hands down when he has a 10.5" reach advantage and an extremely diverse arsenal of technical strikes just seems like a bad idea no matter how you cut it. I mean, it's always a bad idea to camp out at a range where your opponent can hit you but you can't hit them for starters and then sitting back and waiting to counter a guy that is extremely tricky with his offensive striking by using feints and unorthodox movements to open people up is also a bad idea. Put the two together and you really have a bad idea. The last thing you want is waiting around trying to be a reactive counter striker with a guy like Israel, that's exactly what he wants you to do. Keep your hands by your waste and sit at the edge of his range where he knows you can't touch him without blitzing in and he can hit you almost at will is just ludicrous, it's like a free gift. I would say that anybody who employs that gameplan against Adesanya is going to lose. Every fight he is really dominant in he gets people a little scared of his strikes and they start to hang back then he starts upping the razzle dazle a bit until he really gets them reacting exactly how he wants with feints and unorthodox unpredictable movements and then they start mirroring his shit lmost as if they have become hypnotized by the programming and then bang! they're fucking kilt dead.

Forward pressure, in his face, fight ugly in close as much as possible, use low kicks and teeps to fuck with his timing when he tries to come in if you can't push at him for a minute and constant griniding with clinching and takedown attempts or actual grappling seems like the best bet. Probably have to look out for his knees in the clinch but if you could grind on him with a collar tie and dirty box while threatening with takedowns I think you cold frustrate him and get him out of his rhythm. He's a guy that likes to be in control, doesn't seem to be in love of chaos.

Also somebody with really big power could catch him slipping he is hittable and seems to get hit good and clean a few times in each one of his tougher fights.


You're exactly right if we're talking about robots that have no cardio concerns and can just go forward constantly, otherwise it reads like someone who has no idea wtf they're talking about.

Also, go train for a day against someone that is 7 inches taller than you, a good 10lbs heavier than you, and is an overall better striker, and tell me how easy it is to slip their strikes constantly.

I’ve sparred with guys my size or slightly bigger with a few inches reach advantage, with good leg kicks and overall striking. 

It is a fucking hard thing to deal with. I think it’s not that bad and before you know it I’ve already eaten 3 leg kicks and a kick to the liver.