UnderGround Forums Greatest fall from grace in mma

8/29/15 2:37 AM
5/10/04
Posts: 6292
Samoa - You're a good dude too. I like your posts. VU. Phone Post 3.0

VU back to you.

I don't mind a good debate with a knowledgeable poster such as yourself.

Its actually a bit refreshing compared to all the mindless garbage and uninformed opinions that get thrown around here lately.
8/29/15 2:55 AM
5/10/04
Posts: 6293
Samoa - I'm definitely wrong if all of his Pancrase wins are taken at face value. I admit that. Phone Post 3.0

Ken's only "losses" in Pancrase were works.

Only one of his wins was a work - Ken vs Matt Hume - and they made it obvious (sunset flip/northern lights suplex) :)

There has been debate over one of the Suzuki fights.

But its pretty much common knowledge that he put Funaki over, as well as Suzuki the second time.

The thing is, nobody in Pancrase could really handle Ken straight up. A couple of the guys, like Suzuki and Funaki, probably had more submissions knowledge overall. But Ken made up the difference by being a freak of nature. He was just too damn strong.

But the powers that be at Pancrase didn't want their champion losing in other organizations, like the UFC. So they had him put guys over. It was a different time, and a different culture. Anyways, this was the beginning of Ken falling out with Pancrase and staying full time in the US.

Ken's wins over Bas and Funaki have never been disputed that I have seen. You can watch them yourself, and they pass the eyeball test. Since Funaki and Bas were the 2 best Pancrase fighters other than Ken... I'd say these wins speak volumes.

It can be argued that Bas was the most successful Pancrase fighter of that era, while Ken was the best/most dominant.

Bas had wins over Funaki, Suzuki, Yamada, Mo Smith, Frank, Mezger, etc. 3 time KOP!

But Bas lost to Ken twice, and never got revenge.

Ken is the only fighter Bas fought that he was never able to beat. He only lost a couple of other times, and he avenged them both.

Really, it was a bad matchup for Bas. Ken even overpowered Bas i striking exchanges, which is the one area where Bas should have had the advantage.

But even if you take Ken's worst case scenario record in the 90's, he would be 23-5-2. That is taking away his worked win over Hume, but leaving his worked losses.

30 fights, 23-5-2, 22 submissions, in about 3 years.

I'd say that's damn impressive by any standards.
8/29/15 2:56 AM
5/10/04
Posts: 6294
^^^

- as always IMHO.
8/29/15 2:56 AM
5/27/09
Posts: 24864
the correct answer here is Miguel Torres

hard to believe he was once one of the top p4p fighters in the world.
8/29/15 3:04 AM
5/10/04
Posts: 6295
I can't think of too many of my old favorites who didn't all pretty far toward the end.

Most guys take it too far.
8/29/15 3:07 AM
5/10/04
Posts: 6296
I know its not MMA...

But Mike Tyson is the poster boy for this conversation.

It's sad.
8/29/15 3:09 AM
2/20/11
Posts: 3626
Gomi Phone Post 3.0
8/29/15 3:26 AM
10/12/11
Posts: 7649
While he didn't reach the highest of highs given he didn't win a single match, Joe Son comes to mind. A memorable name from the early UFC's, got some success in the movies. Ends up homeless, then it comes out he gang raped and tourtured some girl back in the 90's and ends up in prison. To top things off he kills his cell mate and gets his life sentence upgraded to a life sentence without possibility of parole.

I remember seeing a guy that looked a lot like him coming out of a ratty motor home in an alley behind a Korean auto mechanics joint at like 6 am. The guy was a mess and only came out to chuck what I'm fairly certain was a container of urine from the trailer. I was thinking how he was a dead ringer for Joe Son. Later I learned that the guy had been homeless, bumming around the OC area for awhile hustling for cash.
8/29/15 5:07 AM
5/6/11
Posts: 5578
This thread is making me realize GSP probably made the right move. A lot of these fighters we hold in high regard have such disappointing end to their careers, a lot of unneeded damage, such as Penn's case, when maybe calling it quits is for the best.

On the flip side of that, understandably hard to let go of something you love doing. On top of that, the sudden extent of that downfall must be so surreal for them, where walking away seems "too early". Crazy how this stuff ends in some cases Phone Post 3.0
8/29/15 5:16 AM
11/22/14
Posts: 1381
Karo Phone Post 3.0
8/29/15 5:52 AM
8/7/15
Posts: 120
Well, as far as just racking up loses, did anyone get hit as hard as Chuck? Phone Post 3.0
8/29/15 6:01 AM
5/8/13
Posts: 4840
As much as it pains me to say it, I think Wanderlei has become the most disgraced. He was spotty in the UFC but even that wasn't really too terrible, better than a lot of the guys who came over from PRIDE, but after everything that went down and his whole attitude towards the NSAC and the UFC, he just keeps digging his hole deeper. Still respect the hell out of him for what he did in PRIDE and he'll always be an absolute legend in the sport, but it's been sad to watch the way this whole thing has played out Phone Post 3.0
8/29/15 6:18 AM
4/19/15
Posts: 199
NUMBERON3MMA - Hate to say it, but hope Dominick Cruz doesn't end up in this boat.
I think he might already be there, which is a massive shame. If he ever fights again I doubt it will be for the title. Phone Post 3.0
8/29/15 6:33 AM
8/19/14
Posts: 812
Paulo filho I'm surprised he hasn't already been mentioned. Phone Post 3.0
8/29/15 6:43 AM
9/11/11
Posts: 706
Bivabiva -
NUMBERON3MMA - Hate to say it, but hope Dominick Cruz doesn't end up in this boat.
I think he might already be there, which is a massive shame. If he ever fights again I doubt it will be for the title. Phone Post 3.0
Given that his last performance was a one-minute smashing of a guy that both veterans and prospects have struggled to put away, I wouldn't be too sure of that. I'm doubt the UFC would make Cruz fight again before putting him in with Dillashaw. Besides an injured Assuncao, there is no other clear #1 contender in the division, and I thinl every MMA fan would like to see what wins; Footwork and speed, or footwork and power? Phone Post 3.0
8/29/15 7:40 AM
11/9/10
Posts: 35868
Ciscos - Uriah hall, fuckin killer to random awesome performences
He earned that killer rep crushing cans on tuf. Phone Post 3.0
8/29/15 7:46 AM
5/28/11
Posts: 1361
Miguel cro cop - Paulo filho I'm surprised he hasn't already been mentioned. Phone Post 3.0
Somebody threw it out there earlier, but nobody replied. He definitely just straight lost his mind. Phone Post 3.0
8/29/15 7:51 AM
6/2/11
Posts: 3128
Most of your guys' answers are more legit, but another guy is Mayhem Miller. From being one of the more popular mma personalities and a guy that beat Lawler, Tim Kennedy, Sakuraba to know being a complete idiot. Phone Post 3.0
8/29/15 7:56 AM
3/16/15
Posts: 2937
Samoa - Anderson. From unbeatable GOAT to KO'd twice and steroid abuser. Phone Post 3.0
Good call Phone Post 3.0
8/29/15 9:02 AM
1/12/05
Posts: 54458
Wanderlei went from the most feared man in MMA, undefeated for years...to getting KTFO by Chris Leben and literally running away from a drug test

Fedor was the baddest man on the planet before he found God and had to take drug tests. His post-Pride run was sad. He was nothing like the great champion we watched for years

Cro Cop went from KO'ing Wand and Barnett in the same night, to losing via headkick to Gonzaga, in the span of 6 months.

David Terrell went from the most hyped fighter of his day, to looking helpless against Evan Tanner. The Soul Assassin wasn't ready for guys that actually fought back.
8/29/15 9:06 AM
10/24/03
Posts: 6555
MakeMeBleed - I feel so bad for Brian Bowles he was on top of the world and never recovered Phone Post 3.0
This was my first thought... Phone Post 3.0
8/29/15 9:16 AM
1/1/01
Posts: 31090
onepunchJD -
Samoa - You're a good dude too. I like your posts. VU. Phone Post 3.0

VU back to you.

I don't mind a good debate with a knowledgeable poster such as yourself.

Its actually a bit refreshing compared to all the mindless garbage and uninformed opinions that get thrown around here lately.
I learned some about Pancrase in the discussion. You got info. Have a good weekend and yeah it's kinda refreshing to be in a debate that doesn't devolve into "Your a fuckin idiot if you disagree with me...." in two or three posts. Phone Post 3.0
8/29/15 9:20 AM
11/21/02
Posts: 6394
Sweet_Baby_Jesus - Most of your guys' answers are more legit, but another guy is Mayhem Miller. From being one of the more popular mma personalities and a guy that beat Lawler, Tim Kennedy, Sakuraba to know being a complete idiot. Phone Post 3.0
That's who came to mind. UFC had him setup to be a star if he beat bisping. Gets destroyed and started a spiral right about the time he was in the Kevin James movie. Phone Post 3.0
8/29/15 10:41 AM
1/1/12
Posts: 4985
This thread makes me sad Phone Post 3.0
8/29/15 12:38 PM
11/9/10
Posts: 35880

Anderson Silva is definitely up there. From unbeatable goat in his prime KO'ing people to getting KO'd, breaking his leg, failing a roids test in a fight he looked like a shell of his previous self.

Wanderlei has had a huge fall but his wasn't as fast. He went from a top level fighter and former Pride champ to total trainwreck and outcast while making crazy videos.

Mayhem was able to compete with top level fighters and is now a complete train wreck. Wins over Lawler, Kennedy, Sakuraba as mentioned above and was seconds from choking Shields out for the SF title but Jake was saved by the bell. His appearance on that HBO RealSports piece was disturbing.