UnderGround Forums Greatest heavyweight boxer to never win a title?

jpm995 -

Can't remenber his name but there was a Mexican middleweight i think who was set for a title shot but raped a young girl [may have be consentual] and went to jail,. He got out but was too old to win a title but was still good. He had big power and speed. I think he was a shue in for the title. Googled him, Tony Alaya Jr, was wrong was a forced rape of a school teacher, got 35 years, served 16 then resumed career won 5 in a row then lost to Yuri boy Campos then breaks into an apt, with 2 women who shot him. Before trial he wins another fight wearing an ankle bracelet and gets 10 years probation. Four years later back to jail for drugs and od's at 52. Guy was a monster in the ring.

Tony Ayala never had a shot at a heavyweight title unless it was in prison.

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jpm995 -

Can't remenber his name but there was a Mexican middleweight i think who was set for a title shot but raped a young girl [may have be consentual] and went to jail,. He got out but was too old to win a title but was still good. He had big power and speed. I think he was a shue in for the title. Googled him, Tony Alaya Jr, was wrong was a forced rape of a school teacher, got 35 years, served 16 then resumed career won 5 in a row then lost to Yuri boy Campos then breaks into an apt, with 2 women who shot him. Before trial he wins another fight wearing an ankle bracelet and gets 10 years probation. Four years later back to jail for drugs and od's at 52. Guy was a monster in the ring.

Tony Ayala never had a shot at a heavyweight title unless it was in prison.

Ayala never had a title shot. Fuck him. I hope he died slow and painfully alone in that gym. He was an absolute piece of shit who should have never been out of prison.

Ttt 

Dilion white ?

Jerry Quarry is the greatest never was that ever fought.

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jpm995 -

Can't remenber his name but there was a Mexican middleweight i think who was set for a title shot but raped a young girl [may have be consentual] and went to jail,. He got out but was too old to win a title but was still good. He had big power and speed. I think he was a shue in for the title. Googled him, Tony Alaya Jr, was wrong was a forced rape of a school teacher, got 35 years, served 16 then resumed career won 5 in a row then lost to Yuri boy Campos then breaks into an apt, with 2 women who shot him. Before trial he wins another fight wearing an ankle bracelet and gets 10 years probation. Four years later back to jail for drugs and od's at 52. Guy was a monster in the ring.

Tony Ayala never had a shot at a heavyweight title unless it was in prison.

My bad i didnt realize it was hw's only. Could make a case for best pfp no belt for Ayala. I googled him he forceabled raped a teacher, got 35 years, got out in 16, won 5 fights and lost to Yuri boy Campus. Not done he attemped to rape two women got shot, won a fight before sentensing while wearing an ankle braclet. Got 10 years probation but jailed again on drug charges. Died of a od at age 52. He was a horrible person by all accounts but an amazing fighter. I saw a few of his fights and he was a sure fire champ.

boxing wiz -

ScreenName22 -

jpm995 -

Can't remenber his name but there was a Mexican middleweight i think who was set for a title shot but raped a young girl [may have be consentual] and went to jail,. He got out but was too old to win a title but was still good. He had big power and speed. I think he was a shue in for the title. Googled him, Tony Alaya Jr, was wrong was a forced rape of a school teacher, got 35 years, served 16 then resumed career won 5 in a row then lost to Yuri boy Campos then breaks into an apt, with 2 women who shot him. Before trial he wins another fight wearing an ankle bracelet and gets 10 years probation. Four years later back to jail for drugs and od's at 52. Guy was a monster in the ring.

Tony Ayala never had a shot at a heavyweight title unless it was in prison.

Ayala never had a title shot. Fuck him. I hope he died slow and painfully alone in that gym. He was an absolute piece of shit who should have never been out of prison.

I didn't remember if after 16 years in jail his fight with Yuri boy Campus was for a belt. Campus was a great fighter in his own right. Really don't remember much about that fight, maybe decision for Campus. Ayaly was a rare combination of big power and good speed. Totally wasted life. I remember many wanting to give him a second chance but after the second attempted rape even his supporters and family gave up on him.

Treedoc - Telofilo Stevenson


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cS7y-E9fwtk

The very top of the list

jpm995 -

boxing wiz -

ScreenName22 -

jpm995 -

Can't remenber his name but there was a Mexican middleweight i think who was set for a title shot but raped a young girl [may have be consentual] and went to jail,. He got out but was too old to win a title but was still good. He had big power and speed. I think he was a shue in for the title. Googled him, Tony Alaya Jr, was wrong was a forced rape of a school teacher, got 35 years, served 16 then resumed career won 5 in a row then lost to Yuri boy Campos then breaks into an apt, with 2 women who shot him. Before trial he wins another fight wearing an ankle bracelet and gets 10 years probation. Four years later back to jail for drugs and od's at 52. Guy was a monster in the ring.

Tony Ayala never had a shot at a heavyweight title unless it was in prison.

Ayala never had a title shot. Fuck him. I hope he died slow and painfully alone in that gym. He was an absolute piece of shit who should have never been out of prison.

I didn't remember if after 16 years in jail his fight with Yuri boy Campus was for a belt. Campus was a great fighter in his own right. Really don't remember much about that fight, maybe decision for Campus. Ayaly was a rare combination of big power and good speed. Totally wasted life. I remember many wanting to give him a second chance but after the second attempted rape even his supporters and family gave up on him.

 He got many chances. He had numerous convictions before the one that sent him to prison. He raped and severely injured injured a poor girl in a drive-in restroom. The piece of shit Duva's helped pay to get him off to keep their fighter out of prison. It's terrible the things he did to numerous victims. I have zero sympothy for Lou Duva or anyone else whom worked to keep Tony out of prison in hopes of making some money. Its terrible to know how bad Tony physically and sexually abused the numerous victims. And to know their safety was jeapordized by people like Duva who were more worried about making a dollar than every girls safety that might ever cross path's with Ayala. Thankfully the world is a better place now that Tony and Lou are dead. 

boxing wiz -

jpm995 -

boxing wiz -

ScreenName22 -

jpm995 -

Can't remenber his name but there was a Mexican middleweight i think who was set for a title shot but raped a young girl [may have be consentual] and went to jail,. He got out but was too old to win a title but was still good. He had big power and speed. I think he was a shue in for the title. Googled him, Tony Alaya Jr, was wrong was a forced rape of a school teacher, got 35 years, served 16 then resumed career won 5 in a row then lost to Yuri boy Campos then breaks into an apt, with 2 women who shot him. Before trial he wins another fight wearing an ankle bracelet and gets 10 years probation. Four years later back to jail for drugs and od's at 52. Guy was a monster in the ring.

Tony Ayala never had a shot at a heavyweight title unless it was in prison.

Ayala never had a title shot. Fuck him. I hope he died slow and painfully alone in that gym. He was an absolute piece of shit who should have never been out of prison.

I didn't remember if after 16 years in jail his fight with Yuri boy Campus was for a belt. Campus was a great fighter in his own right. Really don't remember much about that fight, maybe decision for Campus. Ayaly was a rare combination of big power and good speed. Totally wasted life. I remember many wanting to give him a second chance but after the second attempted rape even his supporters and family gave up on him.

 He got many chances. He had numerous convictions before the one that sent him to prison. He raped and severely injured injured a poor girl in a drive-in restroom. The piece of shit Duva's helped pay to get him off to keep their fighter out of prison. It's terrible the things he did to numerous victims. I have zero sympothy for Lou Duva or anyone else whom worked to keep Tony out of prison in hopes of making some money. Its terrible to know how bad Tony physically and sexually abused the numerous victims. And to know their safety was jeapordized by people like Duva who were more worried about making a dollar than every girls safety that might ever cross path's with Ayala. Thankfully the world is a better place now that Tony and Lou are dead. 

Yes he claimed he was abused as the child but what he did was absolutely disgusting. How he got off with probation after he was out of jail was suprising, i always thought someone was pulling strings for him.

jpm995 -

boxing wiz -

ScreenName22 -

jpm995 -

Can't remenber his name but there was a Mexican middleweight i think who was set for a title shot but raped a young girl [may have be consentual] and went to jail,. He got out but was too old to win a title but was still good. He had big power and speed. I think he was a shue in for the title. Googled him, Tony Alaya Jr, was wrong was a forced rape of a school teacher, got 35 years, served 16 then resumed career won 5 in a row then lost to Yuri boy Campos then breaks into an apt, with 2 women who shot him. Before trial he wins another fight wearing an ankle bracelet and gets 10 years probation. Four years later back to jail for drugs and od's at 52. Guy was a monster in the ring.

Tony Ayala never had a shot at a heavyweight title unless it was in prison.

Ayala never had a title shot. Fuck him. I hope he died slow and painfully alone in that gym. He was an absolute piece of shit who should have never been out of prison.

I didn't remember if after 16 years in jail his fight with Yuri boy Campus was for a belt. Campus was a great fighter in his own right. Really don't remember much about that fight, maybe decision for Campus. Ayaly was a rare combination of big power and good speed. Totally wasted life. I remember many wanting to give him a second chance but after the second attempted rape even his supporters and family gave up on him.

The point was, he was never a heavyweight.

so many


harry wills
joe jennette
sam mcvey


sam langford
george godfrey

joe chowinski(mispelled

elmer "violent " ray

etc etc


and if nikoali korolev if he could have ever turned pro

St Helens UK mma fan -

Dilion white ?

He’ll win one before he retires 

 

This guy would of had a shot.

Great post. That David tua Vs Ike ibebebachu or whatever his name is was incredible

Treedoc - Telofilo Stevenson


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cS7y-E9fwtk

Hey really interesting that they could never work out a fight with Ali. Apparently there was a proposal for a series with Ali that would allow Stevenson to keep his amateur status.  It was a best of 5 series.  Amateur bouts are 3 rounds and in Ali's era championship fights were 15 rounds.  Apparently Castro was on board but I cannot remember what happened that crushed the deal. I think Felix Savon was the best Cuban heavyweight personality.  Its definitely debatable. I wish we could have seen them against the pros. Obviously it's a tall order to think Stevens would beat Ali. Ali had the benefit of pro experience against true killers.  Real men, not amateur kids. 

boxingman - so many


harry wills
joe jennette
sam mcvey


sam langford
george godfrey

joe chowinski(mispelled

elmer "violent " ray

etc etc


and if nikoali korolev if he could have ever turned pro

Awesome post.  How about Markovic?  He was tall and gave a prime Lennox one hell of a fight.  He was very awkward, herky jerky but tough as nails.  I think he got really sick after the Lewis fight.  Sam Langford might have given Dempsey a fight. But he was only 5'7 and fought as a true lightweight early on. Dempsey wasn't really big (between 160- 178 at his best). But he was a real puncher. 

 

How about Billy Conn? He was as close to toppling Louis as you can get and he would have changed history if he didn't get greedy.   He was a great fighter, but like Bob Foster, he was great below hw. 

ScreenName22 -

jpm995 -

boxing wiz -

ScreenName22 -

jpm995 -

Can't remenber his name but there was a Mexican middleweight i think who was set for a title shot but raped a young girl [may have be consentual] and went to jail,. He got out but was too old to win a title but was still good. He had big power and speed. I think he was a shue in for the title. Googled him, Tony Alaya Jr, was wrong was a forced rape of a school teacher, got 35 years, served 16 then resumed career won 5 in a row then lost to Yuri boy Campos then breaks into an apt, with 2 women who shot him. Before trial he wins another fight wearing an ankle bracelet and gets 10 years probation. Four years later back to jail for drugs and od's at 52. Guy was a monster in the ring.

Tony Ayala never had a shot at a heavyweight title unless it was in prison.

Ayala never had a title shot. Fuck him. I hope he died slow and painfully alone in that gym. He was an absolute piece of shit who should have never been out of prison.

I didn't remember if after 16 years in jail his fight with Yuri boy Campus was for a belt. Campus was a great fighter in his own right. Really don't remember much about that fight, maybe decision for Campus. Ayaly was a rare combination of big power and good speed. Totally wasted life. I remember many wanting to give him a second chance but after the second attempted rape even his supporters and family gave up on him.

The point was, he was never a heavyweight.

I know i made a mistake, didn't notice the thread specified hw fighters.

buddie - 

boxingman - so many


harry wills
joe jennette
sam mcvey


sam langford
george godfrey

joe chowinski(mispelled

elmer "violent " ray

etc etc


and if nikoali korolev if he could have ever turned pro

Awesome post.  How about Markovic?  He was tall and gave a prime Lennox one hell of a fight.  He was very awkward, herky jerky but tough as nails.  I think he got really sick after the Lewis fight.  Sam Langford might have given Dempsey a fight. But he was only 5'7 and fought as a true lightweight early on. Dempsey wasn't really big (between 160- 178 at his best). But he was a real puncher. 

 

How about Billy Conn? He was as close to toppling Louis as you can get and he would have changed history if he didn't get greedy.   He was a great fighter, but like Bob Foster, he was great below hw. 

thanks and conn and markovic are solid dudes for the list
and its really sad what happened to markovic...such a tough guy


nino valdes, jerry quarry, larry gains, tom sharkey
are also names that could be there too


tom sharkey is a super tough guy that is rarely ever mentioned


dempsey in his prime was around 185 pounds and sadly langford was past his prime then


harry wills vs dempsey sadly never happened

Always thought Ron Lyle should be in the mix. His war with Foreman was epic and he had massive power. Edit to add the hw division was stacked with great fighters in this era.

JOB - 

David Tua for me has to be up there. The guy was a case of the right guy for the wrong time. He beat multiple former or future heavyweight champions in Ruiz, Rahman, Maskaev and Moorer. Excluding the tail-end of his career, he had one of the highest KO percentages in the history of the HW division with a left hook that would make Joe Frazier proud. 

When the time finally came for him to get a title shot, he was unfortunate to have to fight Lennox Lewis for the title. There were much lesser champions in the 90's/early 00's that Tua could have easily beaten to become world champion, but Lewis was a master of his craft and beating him was a tough ask for anyone. Ultimately, he never won a title but had his opponents come at a different time in his career, he could have been a multiple time world champ. 

 

 

 

Ike Ibeabuchi is a very big what if in boxing. Ended his career with a perfect 20-0 record before being arrested. He beat David Tua in a close back and forth war of attrition. The final fight of his career - he beat Chris Byrd from pillar to post, but went to prison shortly after and we never really got to see him against some of the other big players of the time like Tyson, Lewis or Holyfield. I've no doubt that if he stayed out of trouble he could have very well been world champ. 

 

 

 

Jerry Quarry is another case of the right guy in the wrong time. Jerry fought in one of the the strongest heavyweight divisions in history with the likes of Ali, Frazier and Foreman ruling the roost. The guy had relentless pressure with an iron chin. He has wins over Ron Lyle and Earnie Shavers, two of the hardest hitters in boxing along with a win over former champ Floyd Patterson.  He was a little small for the division, regularly fighting at under 200lbs and cut easily. Probably his only downfall. 

 

 

 

Ken Norton - This one might be a confusing choice for most boxing fans. Ken Norton never won a world title. It sounds strange to hear it, but it's true. He held a world title, but never won it. He was awarded a title after Leon Spinks was stripped of WBC belt, having won an eliminator fight with Jimmy Young. But he never beat a champion for one. I can't think of anyone who gave Muhammad Ali more trouble over his career (with perhaps the exception of Joe Frazier) than Ken Norton. He arguably beat Muhammad Ali and gave a prime Larry Holmes hell in their fight losing a split decision that nobody would have argued if it went Norton's way. It could be said he was often fighting the judges more than his opponent. 

 

 

Who else do you think should be on the list? 

Norton beat Ali and broke his jaw so nothing is arguable.

Jimmy Young who was for a time no.1 contender behind Ali

Ernie Shavers

Andrew Golota should have held 2 belts. He beat Ruiz and Byrd and got jobbed by Don King's judges. 

IF, and it's a huge if, Golota wasn't a mental case, he would have been the best of his generation. He had a brutal jab, huge power, clean fundamentals, and a killer instinct. A non-crazy Golota would have had a decade of dominaton. 

He's the GOAT gym fighter. But he gets panic attacks when the light go on and he has to fight in front of an audience. 

Bobby Lupo -

Andrew Golota should have held 2 belts. He beat Ruiz and Byrd and got jobbed by Don King's judges. 

IF, and it's a huge if, Golota wasn't a mental case, he would have been the best of his generation. He had a brutal jab, huge power, clean fundamentals, and a killer instinct. A non-crazy Golota would have had a decade of dominaton. 

He's the GOAT gym fighter. But he gets panic attacks when the light go on and he has to fight in front of an audience. 

Golota absolutely had the talent to win a title, especially during the time of numerous belts. He lacked the mental makeup needed to win a world title.

I remember after the first Bowe fight they did a panel with top trainers in Ring magazine and they all said Golota had the tools to be a solid champion.  Especially Lou Duva, he was really high Andrew. But of course he trained him. Much like Ibeabuchi, he was a head case. Looking back I wonder if some of what we were seeing with guys like Bowe, Golota, Comacho and Ike acting in a bizarre manner was attributable to CTE. In any event, hes a solid addition.  

graciesrule - 

JOB - 

David Tua for me has to be up there. The guy was a case of the right guy for the wrong time. He beat multiple former or future heavyweight champions in Ruiz, Rahman, Maskaev and Moorer. Excluding the tail-end of his career, he had one of the highest KO percentages in the history of the HW division with a left hook that would make Joe Frazier proud. 

When the time finally came for him to get a title shot, he was unfortunate to have to fight Lennox Lewis for the title. There were much lesser champions in the 90's/early 00's that Tua could have easily beaten to become world champion, but Lewis was a master of his craft and beating him was a tough ask for anyone. Ultimately, he never won a title but had his opponents come at a different time in his career, he could have been a multiple time world champ. 

 

 

 

Ike Ibeabuchi is a very big what if in boxing. Ended his career with a perfect 20-0 record before being arrested. He beat David Tua in a close back and forth war of attrition. The final fight of his career - he beat Chris Byrd from pillar to post, but went to prison shortly after and we never really got to see him against some of the other big players of the time like Tyson, Lewis or Holyfield. I've no doubt that if he stayed out of trouble he could have very well been world champ. 

 

 

 

Jerry Quarry is another case of the right guy in the wrong time. Jerry fought in one of the the strongest heavyweight divisions in history with the likes of Ali, Frazier and Foreman ruling the roost. The guy had relentless pressure with an iron chin. He has wins over Ron Lyle and Earnie Shavers, two of the hardest hitters in boxing along with a win over former champ Floyd Patterson.  He was a little small for the division, regularly fighting at under 200lbs and cut easily. Probably his only downfall. 

 

 

 

Ken Norton - This one might be a confusing choice for most boxing fans. Ken Norton never won a world title. It sounds strange to hear it, but it's true. He held a world title, but never won it. He was awarded a title after Leon Spinks was stripped of WBC belt, having won an eliminator fight with Jimmy Young. But he never beat a champion for one. I can't think of anyone who gave Muhammad Ali more trouble over his career (with perhaps the exception of Joe Frazier) than Ken Norton. He arguably beat Muhammad Ali and gave a prime Larry Holmes hell in their fight losing a split decision that nobody would have argued if it went Norton's way. It could be said he was often fighting the judges more than his opponent. 

 

 

Who else do you think should be on the list? 

Norton beat Ali and broke his jaw so nothing is arguable.

Jimmy Young who was for a time no.1 contender behind Ali

Ernie Shavers

Um, no. He didn't beat Ali for the title. Which is the premise of this thread. He broke Ali's jaw in their first fight, which was not for a world title.

The actual title fight is the one that he arguably beat Ali, but lost on the scorecards.

Jimmy Young with solid wins and performances was a good contender and I considered putting his name up there, but his career was very hit and miss overall with an accumulation of losses. That's why I sided on leaving him out of the list.