UnderGround Forums How do you feel about the Tim Hague death/lawsuit?

8/14/19 12:47 AM
7/22/05
Posts: 58748

8/14/19 1:30 AM
4/22/13
Posts: 2649
Jones right nostril -

If a requirement for the fight to happen is that a fucking waiver needs to be signed, then that's a pretty obvious sign the fight shouldn't be happening in the first place. 

I feel the family has a case against the commission here. Waiver or not, it was at the very least reckless for them to allow the fight to happen. 

This :(

8/14/19 3:32 AM
1/10/13
Posts: 6728
Jones right nostril -

        

                  

Not trying to be hurtful or insulting, but who was in his corner for this last fight? At no point did  he ever look like he had any shot at winning.He was dropped three times I believe in the 1st round and once more in the 2nd where it could have been stopped. This wasnt a title fight or even a remotely important bout, is was two journeyman . I doubt it would have mattered, but that final KO should have been avoided. I'm sure he would have continued on though, so as I said it wouldnt have mattered.

8/14/19 10:49 AM
8/20/03
Posts: 145746

He lost a bunch of fights in a row in a short time via head injury tko. 

He never should have been licensed to fight. 

Sometimes fighters need to be saved from themselves.

With concussion knowledge being more and more informed every day, he should have been suspended for a period of time and even then only allowed to return after passing medicals.

These waivers that people sign mean little to nothing either imo.

8/14/19 10:55 AM
2/29/16
Posts: 5756

Edmonton screwed up but they're also learning on the go.

 

The family wants money and they're not going to get it.

 

RIP Tim

8/14/19 11:49 AM
10/24/03
Posts: 8116
Mandible_Claw -

Edmonton screwed up but they're also learning on the go.

 

The family wants money and they're not going to get it.

 

RIP Tim

A income earning, family supporting father is dead due to neglect from everyone involved - the city of Edmonton included! He has been KOd many times before that fight PLUS when you look at the match up on paper their's no way it should have happened in real life. Both are local guys and medical/fight history information couldn't have been easier to get.

 

I think his family should get money from the city! If this is what happens because you signed a waiver I don't know why anyone would fight in Edmonton.

 

 

Plus, wasn't their a recent law suit in Edmonton about a student suing a BJJ gym even though a waiver was signed? I could be wrong.... 

8/14/19 1:06 PM
11/5/13
Posts: 5181

Didn't he lose by tko/ko  6 times within  a year?.  Im sorry but it's his teams/families fault for allowing him to continue fighting like that.  This just seems insane to me.

8/14/19 5:44 PM
10/31/07
Posts: 6117
MMARAIDER -

He cleary never should of been licensed to fight, but he signed a waiver, so his family has no grounds for the wrongful death lawsuit imo . Sucks that it happened, hes not the first and wont be the last. He knew the risks.  

I agree with this.

8/14/19 7:41 PM
8/27/08
Posts: 5925

He probably had all of 100 brain cells left when he signed the waiver. Commission had one truly important job and dropped the ball.

8/14/19 8:31 PM
10/31/07
Posts: 6118

A concenting adult signed a piece of paper stating they weren't responsible if he got hurt or die, he died, how is anyone but him responsible? Should the fight of happened? No, should he possibly have not been medically cleared? Sure. None of that changes anything. If a nascar driver has a record of crashing and crashed his last 6 times out racing but wants to race again, crashes and dies is it nascars fault?

8/14/19 8:47 PM
5/8/13
Posts: 12594
NineFightFour -

A concenting adult signed a piece of paper stating they weren't responsible if he got hurt or die, he died, how is anyone but him responsible? Should the fight of happened? No, should he possibly have not been medically cleared? Sure. None of that changes anything. If a nascar driver has a record of crashing and crashed his last 6 times out racing but wants to race again, crashes and dies is it nascars fault?

Now we'regetting into a good discussion. I think many people feel the way you do. I'm really torn. Can't commissions have insurance in case someone dies or is that not feasible due to costs etc..? 

8/14/19 9:01 PM
11/18/11
Posts: 7787

Edmonton and Calgary have always been very weak regulatory regimes and this is the plain result. There are very few if any other places in North America where a match like this one could be made. It would have been farcical had it not ended 9in tragedy.

8/15/19 12:39 AM
10/24/03
Posts: 8119
NineFightFour -

A concenting adult signed a piece of paper stating they weren't responsible if he got hurt or die, he died, how is anyone but him responsible? Should the fight of happened? No, should he possibly have not been medically cleared? Sure. None of that changes anything. If a nascar driver has a record of crashing and crashed his last 6 times out racing but wants to race again, crashes and dies is it nascars fault?

But isn't this exact incident the reason for a commission? Otherwise it's just sign the waiver and make the weight, the rest isn't important and that's not right.. 

8/15/19 4:53 PM
3/15/15
Posts: 12033

Sorry, but his decision. A goon will always want to fight. Even at high risk. In a high risk sport, there is little one can do from stopping determined people from permanent injury or worse.
MMA is not a healthy sport, there are literally dozens of "old school" MMaers who suffered log-time permanent afflictions. Unfortunately he knew the risks.

8/15/19 6:31 PM
8/14/10
Posts: 839

I view it just like going to any job, ever. You get your health evaluated, you are assured you have the right skills and training for teh job, and the environment you work in is healthy. None of that existed.  I used to live in Edmonton and yes their AC is very young and free of regulations. It is for sure their fault for not providing him a safe place to go to work.

Edited: 8/15/19 7:59 PM
7/11/12
Posts: 2291

Did anyone here know Tim? 

Joe Rogan is always banging on about concussions fucking your impulses up, so was Tim taking these fights because he couldn't think straight anymore due to the brain damage, it just seems crazy do boxing after getting ko'd so many times in mma? 

8/15/19 9:01 PM
1/8/04
Posts: 12761
Jones right nostril - 

        

                  


Did he ever wake up after that and die of swelling to the brain? Or just never woke up again after getting knocked out that bad.
8/15/19 10:04 PM
10/5/15
Posts: 280
PelosiesPanties -
MMARAIDER - 

He cleary never should of been licensed to fight, but he signed a waiver, so his family has no grounds for the wrongful death lawsuit imo . Sucks that it happened, hes not the first and wont be the last. He knew the risks.  


Signing a waiver is just that, you have waived .........

Please tell us you are not that simple.  This is a more serious version of the apple terms and conditions.  You sign what ever you have to to do what you want.  Doesn't mean it isn't a gray area.

8/15/19 11:14 PM
8/15/17
Posts: 211

Never new about the waiver. I agree I f that's needed the fight shouldn't have happened.

Regardless of whether the fight should have happened or not it definitely should have been refed better. The very first time he was dropped the ref was staring at him like you could see him thinking about stopping it and then he goes on to letting him get dropped 3 more times in one round and he ruled one a slip that clearly wasn't a slip. Tim was clearly outclassed in that fight and the ref really didn't need to let him get dropped more than twice. 3 knockdown rule in effect or not the ref or somebody in his corner should probably stop it after 3 knockdowns especially if it happens in the first round.

8/16/19 3:19 PM
10/31/07
Posts: 6123
The Sauce -
NineFightFour -

A concenting adult signed a piece of paper stating they weren't responsible if he got hurt or die, he died, how is anyone but him responsible? Should the fight of happened? No, should he possibly have not been medically cleared? Sure. None of that changes anything. If a nascar driver has a record of crashing and crashed his last 6 times out racing but wants to race again, crashes and dies is it nascars fault?

But isn't this exact incident the reason for a commission? Otherwise it's just sign the waiver and make the weight, the rest isn't important and that's not right.. 

It may not be right but no a commission isn't designed for 100% fighter safety, they are there to make money, it's a money business. They hire doctors and sanction things and a doctor cleared him to fight, or someone did. He knew the risk, his family and corner knew the risk. He consented. It's fucking horrible but it doesn't mean that the ref or the organization or the opponent or anyone is "responsible" for his death and needs to pay his family. I get it, they're upset but suing for money because someone died doing something they knew was dangerous and signed a waiver stating such seems way off base to me. Maybe it's the only way the family sees a way to get above water with their finances? I don't know but I don't see how this suit moves forward in their favor

8/16/19 7:25 PM
1/25/14
Posts: 2443

When I saw the event I thought it was one of the worst stoppages I had ever seen.

To think he was already on a knockout loss streak, horrible all round.

Also his opponent looked juiced to the gills. 

8/16/19 8:25 PM
10/24/03
Posts: 8123
NineFightFour -
The Sauce -
NineFightFour -

A concenting adult signed a piece of paper stating they weren't responsible if he got hurt or die, he died, how is anyone but him responsible? Should the fight of happened? No, should he possibly have not been medically cleared? Sure. None of that changes anything. If a nascar driver has a record of crashing and crashed his last 6 times out racing but wants to race again, crashes and dies is it nascars fault?

But isn't this exact incident the reason for a commission? Otherwise it's just sign the waiver and make the weight, the rest isn't important and that's not right.. 

It may not be right but no a commission isn't designed for 100% fighter safety, they are there to make money, it's a money business. They hire doctors and sanction things and a doctor cleared him to fight, or someone did. He knew the risk, his family and corner knew the risk. He consented. It's fucking horrible but it doesn't mean that the ref or the organization or the opponent or anyone is "responsible" for his death and needs to pay his family. I get it, they're upset but suing for money because someone died doing something they knew was dangerous and signed a waiver stating such seems way off base to me. Maybe it's the only way the family sees a way to get above water with their finances? I don't know but I don't see how this suit moves forward in their favor

I know that the city is a business but their job isn't to just collect money... If they hire a bunk doctor, how are they not liable? Their job is to over see this and make sure the fighter has done all the proper pre medicals and is fit to fight. 

8/16/19 8:34 PM
10/31/07
Posts: 6125
The Sauce -
NineFightFour -
The Sauce -
NineFightFour -

A concenting adult signed a piece of paper stating they weren't responsible if he got hurt or die, he died, how is anyone but him responsible? Should the fight of happened? No, should he possibly have not been medically cleared? Sure. None of that changes anything. If a nascar driver has a record of crashing and crashed his last 6 times out racing but wants to race again, crashes and dies is it nascars fault?

But isn't this exact incident the reason for a commission? Otherwise it's just sign the waiver and make the weight, the rest isn't important and that's not right.. 

It may not be right but no a commission isn't designed for 100% fighter safety, they are there to make money, it's a money business. They hire doctors and sanction things and a doctor cleared him to fight, or someone did. He knew the risk, his family and corner knew the risk. He consented. It's fucking horrible but it doesn't mean that the ref or the organization or the opponent or anyone is "responsible" for his death and needs to pay his family. I get it, they're upset but suing for money because someone died doing something they knew was dangerous and signed a waiver stating such seems way off base to me. Maybe it's the only way the family sees a way to get above water with their finances? I don't know but I don't see how this suit moves forward in their favor

I know that the city is a business but their job isn't to just collect money... If they hire a bunk doctor, how are they not liable? Their job is to over see this and make sure the fighter has done all the proper pre medicals and is fit to fight. 

If the family can prove they hired a quack that basically lied and said sure he can fight they may have a case, but they'd have to prove there was some sorta collusion going on. Not just that a guy who by most accounts shouldn't be fighting anymore died from fighting 

8/16/19 8:44 PM
2/3/09
Posts: 1660
NineFightFour -
The Sauce -
NineFightFour -
The Sauce -
NineFightFour -

A concenting adult signed a piece of paper stating they weren't responsible if he got hurt or die, he died, how is anyone but him responsible? Should the fight of happened? No, should he possibly have not been medically cleared? Sure. None of that changes anything. If a nascar driver has a record of crashing and crashed his last 6 times out racing but wants to race again, crashes and dies is it nascars fault?

But isn't this exact incident the reason for a commission? Otherwise it's just sign the waiver and make the weight, the rest isn't important and that's not right.. 

It may not be right but no a commission isn't designed for 100% fighter safety, they are there to make money, it's a money business. They hire doctors and sanction things and a doctor cleared him to fight, or someone did. He knew the risk, his family and corner knew the risk. He consented. It's fucking horrible but it doesn't mean that the ref or the organization or the opponent or anyone is "responsible" for his death and needs to pay his family. I get it, they're upset but suing for money because someone died doing something they knew was dangerous and signed a waiver stating such seems way off base to me. Maybe it's the only way the family sees a way to get above water with their finances? I don't know but I don't see how this suit moves forward in their favor

I know that the city is a business but their job isn't to just collect money... If they hire a bunk doctor, how are they not liable? Their job is to over see this and make sure the fighter has done all the proper pre medicals and is fit to fight. 

If the family can prove they hired a quack that basically lied and said sure he can fight they may have a case, but they'd have to prove there was some sorta collusion going on. Not just that a guy who by most accounts shouldn't be fighting anymore died from fighting 

You know the commission and promoter didn't follow the established policies in place when they booked the fight, right? This is highlighted in the report put out by MNP, which was hired by the city....and on top of that, it also had 18 recommendations on how to improve their policies to be more in line with the major sanctioning bodies.

 

Which is interesting, because the promotion in question here, is already on the record saying that they were already doing these recommendations before they were even in place.....which seems impossible, given the fight wouldn't have been able to take place if the steps had been followed lol. The promoter actually called it just "extra paper work".

8/16/19 8:53 PM
5/23/13
Posts: 1523

It's hard to say "he's a grown man it's his decision to fight" if the brain making those decisions has been scrambled by frequent and recent concussive injuries. People with head injuries aren't often known for their judgement and decision making, no matter how well adjusted they were previously