UnderGround Forums How important is sheer aggression in striking?

25 days ago
7/27/11
Posts: 31273

There’s a guy I train with who is almost stupidly aggressive whenever he spars, yet it works really well for him. He’s constantly either cutting angles or closing in on who he’s fighting, and he’s almost always giving other guys fits...guys way more experienced than him. 

Which had me wondering, can sheer aggression compensate for a lack of striking experience (when you’re dealing with competent MMA strikers mind you)? 

I mean, Thiago Santos comes to mind. He’s not the cleanest striker in the division, but he’s clearly the most aggressive and by extension I’d say the best striker at 205. 

 

What do you guys think? 

25 days ago
7/26/15
Posts: 1637

Look at wanderlei and shogun

25 days ago
7/28/02
Posts: 10965

Conditioning, aggression, and technique

25 days ago
7/27/11
Posts: 31276
Brother rabbitte -

Look at wanderlei and shogun

Fair enough, however their technique seemed rudimentary at best. With that said, it won them multiple world championships time and time again.

25 days ago
5/10/03
Posts: 38596

Absolutely. Especially in MMA with 4oz gloves and higher likelihood for one of their wild strikes to get through. Just have to have the chin and conditioning for that game.

25 days ago
4/27/08
Posts: 24943
Sheer aggression without technique = Diego Sanchez, Matt Riddle, Leonard Garcia etc.
25 days ago
3/5/14
Posts: 12906

Oh yea, aggression can really mask a lot of other shortcomings and shortfalls when it comes to striking, especially against opponents who are hesitant about getting hit and more concerned with avoiding damage than handing it out. 

There's a certain level of fearless and general not giving a fuck that really good brawlers, even at high levels, seem to have.  Chris Leben comes to mind a lot of times regarding this kind of stuff.  His technique was always ugly, but he was relentlessly agressive and DID NOT GIVE A SHIT ABOUT GETTING HIT!.  It helped that he had a granit garbage can for a head, but he would walk through several well placed shots in many fights to land a big combo that would put his opponent on queer street. 

It wasn't until he fought legit tacticians that he really got exposed.  Example number one in my head is Anderson Silva. 

25 days ago
1/1/01
Posts: 75670

It works until their chin goes. Their career likely won't be that long.

25 days ago
7/27/11
Posts: 31278
Hurtsogood -

Oh yea, aggression can really mask a lot of other shortcomings and shortfalls when it comes to striking, especially against opponents who are hesitant about getting hit and more concerned with avoiding damage than handing it out. 

There's a certain level of fearless and general not giving a fuck that really good brawlers, even at high levels, seem to have.  Chris Leben comes to mind a lot of times regarding this kind of stuff.  His technique was always ugly, but he was relentlessly agressive and DID NOT GIVE A SHIT ABOUT GETTING HIT!.  It helped that he had a granit garbage can for a head, but he would walk through several well placed shots in many fights to land a big combo that would put his opponent on queer street. 

It wasn't until he fought legit tacticians that he really got exposed.  Example number one in my head is Anderson Silva. 

When I made the thread, I was mostly thinking of Thiago Santos. But solid points nonetheless. 

As for someone like Santos, if he got together with an elite striking coach like Hooft, I think the sky would be the limit. Could you imagine if he tightened his footwork up, cleaned up his combinations, and began utilizing just a little more defense? With the amount of aggression that guy brings to the table, he'd be a monster. 

Technical aggression is where it's at. 

25 days ago
3/5/14
Posts: 12911
Uhtred Ragnarson -
Hurtsogood -

Oh yea, aggression can really mask a lot of other shortcomings and shortfalls when it comes to striking, especially against opponents who are hesitant about getting hit and more concerned with avoiding damage than handing it out. 

There's a certain level of fearless and general not giving a fuck that really good brawlers, even at high levels, seem to have.  Chris Leben comes to mind a lot of times regarding this kind of stuff.  His technique was always ugly, but he was relentlessly agressive and DID NOT GIVE A SHIT ABOUT GETTING HIT!.  It helped that he had a granit garbage can for a head, but he would walk through several well placed shots in many fights to land a big combo that would put his opponent on queer street. 

It wasn't until he fought legit tacticians that he really got exposed.  Example number one in my head is Anderson Silva. 

When I made the thread, I was mostly thinking of Thiago Santos. But solid points nonetheless. 

As for someone like Santos, if he got together with an elite striking coach like Hooft, I think the sky would be the limit. Could you imagine if he tightened his footwork up, cleaned up his combinations, and began utilizing just a little more defense? With the amount of aggression that guy brings to the table, he'd be a monster. 

Technical aggression is where it's at. 

Yea, being technical while being agressive is definately a better combo than just being agressive and can take you further.

25 days ago
2/1/08
Posts: 12999
Hurtsogood -

Oh yea, aggression can really mask a lot of other shortcomings and shortfalls when it comes to striking, especially against opponents who are hesitant about getting hit and more concerned with avoiding damage than handing it out. 

There's a certain level of fearless and general not giving a fuck that really good brawlers, even at high levels, seem to have.  Chris Leben comes to mind a lot of times regarding this kind of stuff.  His technique was always ugly, but he was relentlessly agressive and DID NOT GIVE A SHIT ABOUT GETTING HIT!.  It helped that he had a granit garbage can for a head, but he would walk through several well placed shots in many fights to land a big combo that would put his opponent on queer street. 

It wasn't until he fought legit tacticians that he really got exposed.  Example number one in my head is Anderson Silva. 

Leben-Silva was the fight that came to mind with this thread.

 

Aggression and a solid chin can take you far, but it also works AGAINST you really quickly if/when you go up against someone who's legitimately beyond your level.  Not to mention the long-term toll training and fighting that way takes on your health.

25 days ago
1/1/01
Posts: 40876

LOL, learned that lesson on the schoolyard.

Start punching and do not stop.  Overwhelm your opponent.

25 days ago
3/5/14
Posts: 12915
notsobigmike -
Hurtsogood -

Oh yea, aggression can really mask a lot of other shortcomings and shortfalls when it comes to striking, especially against opponents who are hesitant about getting hit and more concerned with avoiding damage than handing it out. 

There's a certain level of fearless and general not giving a fuck that really good brawlers, even at high levels, seem to have.  Chris Leben comes to mind a lot of times regarding this kind of stuff.  His technique was always ugly, but he was relentlessly agressive and DID NOT GIVE A SHIT ABOUT GETTING HIT!.  It helped that he had a granit garbage can for a head, but he would walk through several well placed shots in many fights to land a big combo that would put his opponent on queer street. 

It wasn't until he fought legit tacticians that he really got exposed.  Example number one in my head is Anderson Silva. 

Leben-Silva was the fight that came to mind with this thread.

 

Aggression and a solid chin can take you far, but it also works AGAINST you really quickly if/when you go up against someone who's legitimately beyond your level.  Not to mention the long-term toll training and fighting that way takes on your health.

100 % agree.

25 days ago
11/8/09
Posts: 29039
Hurtsogood -
notsobigmike -
Hurtsogood -

Oh yea, aggression can really mask a lot of other shortcomings and shortfalls when it comes to striking, especially against opponents who are hesitant about getting hit and more concerned with avoiding damage than handing it out. 

There's a certain level of fearless and general not giving a fuck that really good brawlers, even at high levels, seem to have.  Chris Leben comes to mind a lot of times regarding this kind of stuff.  His technique was always ugly, but he was relentlessly agressive and DID NOT GIVE A SHIT ABOUT GETTING HIT!.  It helped that he had a granit garbage can for a head, but he would walk through several well placed shots in many fights to land a big combo that would put his opponent on queer street. 

It wasn't until he fought legit tacticians that he really got exposed.  Example number one in my head is Anderson Silva. 

Leben-Silva was the fight that came to mind with this thread.

 

Aggression and a solid chin can take you far, but it also works AGAINST you really quickly if/when you go up against someone who's legitimately beyond your level.  Not to mention the long-term toll training and fighting that way takes on your health.

100 % agree.

The most resent example I can think of where sheer aggression worked against a guy was when Gaethje fought Alvarez. Eddie made good adjustments to deal with that come forward with reckless abandon style and stopped Justin. 

25 days ago
1/1/11
Posts: 6616
Thread made me think of Houston Alexander. Big fan, but haven't thought of him in years.
Edited: 25 days ago
8/19/03
Posts: 27577

It definitely can, and there's countless examples.   I'm not saying that it's the highest percentage approach, but striking,  especially in MMA, is oftentimes a matter of who lands first. 

 

The size of the gloves, takedowns,  clinches, the footwork.  All different in MMA.  Sometimes even having less technical opponents is even more dangerous,  because they don't behave in the way a high level striker might be accustomed to.

 

Just look at Sapp-Hoost  and Goodridge-Bernardo in K1 as two examples to start.  And this is in kickboxing,  which should favor the more technical striker even more so.  Not the case.  In both instances,  the (far more) experienced and decorated strikers got wrecked by opponents who just rushed them and poured it on.  Does Sapp KO Hoost 100/100 times doing that?  Maybe not, but the approach has at least some merit.

25 days ago
6/11/06
Posts: 4015

Agression/high pressure  style with a big gas tank is very effective but there needs to be some skilll thrown in to.

25 days ago
7/22/11
Posts: 612

Cardio-aggression-physiqe can dominate pretty far and take guys/gals to national level in striking. However once U go international If you go too aggressive against top international guys top 10 , top 5 you Will usually get smoked.... Thats why you have guys at gym thinking they can Bully who ever until ”that” calm collected Guy with way more experience shows up and serves some humble pie

25 days ago
7/27/11
Posts: 31282
WaltJ -

It definitely can, and there's countless examples.   I'm not saying that it's the highest percentage approach, but striking,  especially in MMA, is oftentimes a matter of who lands first. 

 

The size of the gloves, takedowns,  clinches, the footwork.  All different in MMA.  Sometimes even having less technical opponents is even more dangerous,  because they don't behave in the way a high level striker might be accustomed to.

 

Just look at Sapp-Hoost  and Goodridge-Bernardo in K1 as two examples to start.  And this is in kickboxing,  which should favor the more technical striker even more so.  Not the case.  In both instances,  the (far more) experienced and decorated strikers got wrecked by opponents who just rushed them and poured it on.  Does Sapp KO Hoost 100/100 times doing that?  Maybe not, but the approach has at least some merit.

I wasn’t mainly talking about hyper aggressive brawlers but technical aggression. Think Ramon Dekkers for example. 

His nickname was literally the turbine from hell and he’d chew guys up because of it. Fighting him was like fighting a meat grinder, literally. 

I think I’m starting to see the benefits in being an aggressive pressure fighter. It seems the most cost effective.

25 days ago
11/30/14
Posts: 2466

Deontae Wilder 

25 days ago
1/12/05
Posts: 62102

It's very important and can be used with great success if the fighter has heavy hands and/or great cardio. Swarmers are a nightmare to deal with. Technicians especially have problems with a guy going chest to chest and throwing a barrage of punches. It's a mentally and physically exhausting style to deal with. 

The old boxing truism is:

Swarmer beats Boxer
Slugger beats Swarmer
Boxer beats Slugger
25 days ago
5/14/13
Posts: 4694

Yes, but training with people like that sucks. They don't understand what they're doing, or how to make it work effectively. They start spazzing out and hurt people. Can't get better if you've got no training partners.

 

Leave it for the fight, not general practice.

25 days ago
8/19/03
Posts: 27578
Uhtred Ragnarson -
WaltJ -

It definitely can, and there's countless examples.   I'm not saying that it's the highest percentage approach, but striking,  especially in MMA, is oftentimes a matter of who lands first. 

 

The size of the gloves, takedowns,  clinches, the footwork.  All different in MMA.  Sometimes even having less technical opponents is even more dangerous,  because they don't behave in the way a high level striker might be accustomed to.

 

Just look at Sapp-Hoost  and Goodridge-Bernardo in K1 as two examples to start.  And this is in kickboxing,  which should favor the more technical striker even more so.  Not the case.  In both instances,  the (far more) experienced and decorated strikers got wrecked by opponents who just rushed them and poured it on.  Does Sapp KO Hoost 100/100 times doing that?  Maybe not, but the approach has at least some merit.

I wasn’t mainly talking about hyper aggressive brawlers but technical aggression. Think Ramon Dekkers for example. 

His nickname was literally the turbine from hell and he’d chew guys up because of it. Fighting him was like fighting a meat grinder, literally. 

I think I’m starting to see the benefits in being an aggressive pressure fighter. It seems the most cost effective.

Ah I see.  I think that with limited rounds and judging that is usually in some form based on aggression or shots landed, playing it safe can be risky 

Edited: 24 days ago
1/1/01
Posts: 40893

 

Tyson sparring  1991.

24 days ago
7/27/11
Posts: 31312
Bobby Lupo -

It's very important and can be used with great success if the fighter has heavy hands and/or great cardio. Swarmers are a nightmare to deal with. Technicians especially have problems with a guy going chest to chest and throwing a barrage of punches. It's a mentally and physically exhausting style to deal with. 

The old boxing truism is:

Swarmer beats Boxer
Slugger beats Swarmer
Boxer beats Slugger

Dude, I know Thiago Santos will likely lose to Jon Jones come international fight week. But fucking a, I can see him giving Jon fits. That marauding style is psychologically such a drain to deal with.

 

I know that Conor and Anderson are probably the two most skilled strikers we've seen in MMA, but becoming a dedicated counterstriker like the two of them are is immensely difficult and supremely taxing on the long term. Thiago's style is bare bones but it's insanely effective.

 

Could you imagine if he spent a few months in Holland, or Thailand? Or doubled down on his boxing with a great MMA-Boxing coach like Parillo? 

 

He'd be unstoppable.