UnderGround Forums Is Kyokushin applicable at all to MMA?

9 days ago
7/27/11
Posts: 32159

Or is it completely useless in your opinion?

9 days ago
1/1/01
Posts: 26604
The Kyokushin guys I've met/trained with over the years can take a beating and are strong punchers and kickers.

They are fish out of water on the ground.

If you do the math a straight up and down Kyokushin guy will not do very well in MMA.

9 days ago
7/27/11
Posts: 32160
billyball2 - The Kyokushin guys I've met/trained with over the years can take a beating and are strong punchers and kickers.

They are fish out of water on the ground.

If you do the math a straight up and down Kyokushin guy will not do very well in MMA.

Obviously. We’re not talking style v. style. 

 

We’re talking about large chunks of striking discipline. I don’t know of many kyokushin fighters besides GSP (and even then calling him a kyokushin fighter is a stretch).

9 days ago
2/24/19
Posts: 340

I would put the level of usefulness about like Capoeira. Helps some but not gonna make you a consistent winner. 

9 days ago
8/11/05
Posts: 9028
Semmy Schilt and Tenshin come to mind. I know there are more.
9 days ago
6/5/12
Posts: 736

I did it for 10 years in Australia. Cameron Quinn, Gary O'Neil etc, he wanted me to move down to his academy full time at one point. I said fuck that im going to university, because girls, and, uh, money. I think it's a good base for striking, it's no nonsense and you don't fuck around with light touch sparring bullshit in general. We also did a lot of regular kickboxing (just about as many classes of that vs traditional kyokushin mas oyama fuckin KIAI etc classes). 

Like whatsisface above said, fish out of water on the ground. I thought I was hot shit, went to a 'renshinkhan' class which was basically vale tudo, focused on BJJ, around the time of UFC 1 or a bit earlier. Got choked the fuck out almost instantly. Thought that was awesome and wanted to learn it, que switching to BJJ for the next few years. I still got pounded on the ground but it was vale tudo class so once I figured out a bit of takedown defense I got a bit back with sparring on the feet. 

this is all like 15+ years ago.

GSP has the kyokushin logo tattooed on him. I wanted to do that when I was 17/18. Gary O'Neil (was full contact champ for a while) has it also. Glad I didn't get that shit done. 

I even did a few classes when I was living in Singapore. It's a good workout, generally pretty fun classes. 

9 days ago
7/27/11
Posts: 32161
Captain 'Murica - Semmy Schilt and Tenshin come to mind. I know there are more.

Wasn’t Tenshin kickboxing by 16? He was competing against elite strikers in Thailand as a teenager, he was doing Kyokushin that entire time?

8 days ago
8/11/05
Posts: 9029
Uhtred Ragnarson - 
Captain 'Murica - Semmy Schilt and Tenshin come to mind. I know there are more.

Wasn’t Tenshin kickboxing by 16? He was competing against elite strikers in Thailand as a teenager, he was doing Kyokushin that entire time?


He started kyokushin at a very young age, and he started kickboxing at 13. I don't know if it was a complete switchover. I mentioned his name because he's probably known as a karate genius as much as a kickboxing genius.
8 days ago
1/1/01
Posts: 11580
GSP.
8 days ago
1/1/01
Posts: 41160

They do not protect their heads very well.

A function of their tournament rules.

8 days ago
1/1/01
Posts: 11103
Rakoshi -

I would put the level of usefulness about like Capoeira. Helps some but not gonna make you a consistent winner. 

you must be the stupidest motherfucker alive, or are 10 years years old

8 days ago
6/17/16
Posts: 7864

It is never a bad thing to know how to kick well, what you do with it is probably up to you. 

At least they don't rely on katas and play fighting with people that don't fight back.

8 days ago
7/2/07
Posts: 13902
Bas and plenty of those guys have a Kyokushin background.

Pretty sure. Or at least their coach was a strong Kyokushin guy.
8 days ago
4/6/12
Posts: 3191

Any striking discipline that teaches balance and timing is good to have. 

8 days ago
10/14/02
Posts: 4353
de braco - 
Rakoshi -

I would put the level of usefulness about like Capoeira. Helps some but not gonna make you a consistent winner. 

you must be the stupidest motherfucker alive, or are 10 years years old


100
8 days ago
9/12/10
Posts: 6526
PeterIrl - GSP.

This 

8 days ago
7/27/11
Posts: 32165
Target_the_Gash -

It is never a bad thing to know how to kick well, what you do with it is probably up to you. 

At least they don't rely on katas and play fighting with people that don't fight back.

There are no katas in Kyokushin? Is this for real? 

 

If so, what is the hardest/most legit Kyokushin lineage you know of? Do any of them train punches to the face?

8 days ago
7/27/11
Posts: 32166
Mark Hunts Pet Monkey -

Any striking discipline that teaches balance and timing is good to have. 

I mean I box like 5-6x a week fwiw.

trying to think of a decent way to work on linear movement and my kicks and knees too.

8 days ago
6/17/16
Posts: 7868
Uhtred Ragnarson -
Target_the_Gash -

It is never a bad thing to know how to kick well, what you do with it is probably up to you. 

At least they don't rely on katas and play fighting with people that don't fight back.

There are no katas in Kyokushin? Is this for real? 

 

If so, what is the hardest/most legit Kyokushin lineage you know of? Do any of them train punches to the face?

I wasn't trying to say that just that I don't think it's the main focus like it can be in some of the more fakey TMA styles.

When I think of Kyokushin I think of guys hard sparring and punching tree trunks and stuff.

8 days ago
6/17/16
Posts: 7869

Also I haven't ever done any karate so I really don't know anything about it.

I just posted because learning good kicking is a good thing and most karate styles have good kicking. 

I think there are probably good things in every art but it depends on how somebody picks and chooses and how they apply the techniques and also whether you can find somebody to teach you the good stuff without wasting years of your life dragging it along. 

It's probably not a complete fighting style but it could be a part of a complete fighting style if somebody took the stuff from it that applies.

I'm sure if somebody was open minded they could start there and then train other stuff later or at the same time to fill in the holes but I suppose if you already had a solid foundation elsewhere it might not make much sense to waste the time on it unless you had the right opportunity that worked for you. Maybe you just happen to be by one of the best gyms or a group of people that are very good and take it very seriously I'm sure somebody could find a benefit in it if they chose to take the time.

Probably not the only thing to do if you are trying to compete professionally but if somebody just wanted to learn some self defense and be more ready for a fight or bad situation in life it's probably not a bad thing to do.

Somebody above mentioned capoiera and while it might not be the only thing you want to know in a fight if you can pick the right techniques and apply them at the right time some of the craziest headkick KOs in mma have been landed with a capoiera armada.

8 days ago
3/26/13
Posts: 1197

Damn near any contact martial art will have SOME applicability, and it can add a nice wrinkle to your game, but in general, the less rules in the martial art, the more applicable it will be to MMA.  MMA striking will always have some separation from other striking arts due to the takedown concern, but aside from that, Muay Thai has the least restrictive set outside of Lethwei.  However, headbutts are illegal in MMA so take that away and you have Muay Thai with little hand protection (they don't use Thai gloves).  I've only dabbled in Kyokushin within the context of Muay Thai/MMA/General Striking, but the low kick is probably one of the better takeaways.  Kyokushin was what was mixed with Muay Thai and Western Boxing into what has become "Dutch-style" kickboxing.  

 

Just curious, I've noticed you seem to create threads about the merits of individual arts.  Are you trying to pick one?  If you're trying to figure out what's best, why don't just do MMA?  It's the most all-encompassing training of what's reasonably available.  

8 days ago
7/2/07
Posts: 13904
de braco - 
Rakoshi -

I would put the level of usefulness about like Capoeira. Helps some but not gonna make you a consistent winner. 

you must be the stupidest motherfucker alive, or are 10 years years old


Funny SIFU used to try to make fun of the Uchedeshi when they were not around. But I always knew those guys would have wiped out SIFU yellow tracksuit.



Rakoshi I responded to you over on the should wrestling be banned from UFC thread.


8 days ago
7/27/11
Posts: 32167
nek -

Damn near any contact martial art will have SOME applicability, and it can add a nice wrinkle to your game, but in general, the less rules in the martial art, the more applicable it will be to MMA.  MMA striking will always have some separation from other striking arts due to the takedown concern, but aside from that, Muay Thai has the least restrictive set outside of Lethwei.  However, headbutts are illegal in MMA so take that away and you have Muay Thai with little hand protection (they don't use Thai gloves).  I've only dabbled in Kyokushin within the context of Muay Thai/MMA/General Striking, but the low kick is probably one of the better takeaways.  Kyokushin was what was mixed with Muay Thai and Western Boxing into what has become "Dutch-style" kickboxing.  

 

Just curious, I've noticed you seem to create threads about the merits of individual arts.  Are you trying to pick one?  If you're trying to figure out what's best, why don't just do MMA?  It's the most all-encompassing training of what's reasonably available.  

No. Been rolling and doing Muay Thai since I was a kid. Currently boxing. 

 

Ive noticed a lot of high level fighters have been incorporating TMA more and more (Cejudo, McGregor, Yoel Romero, Pitbull In Bellator). It’s very interesting, thinking outside the box is a must in MMA.

8 days ago
2/9/08
Posts: 349

I think kickboxing or Muay Thai would make for an easier transition / have more relevance for MMA but being able to karate kick someone in the head isn’t a bad start. 

8 days ago
3/26/13
Posts: 1201
Uhtred Ragnarson -
nek -

Damn near any contact martial art will have SOME applicability, and it can add a nice wrinkle to your game, but in general, the less rules in the martial art, the more applicable it will be to MMA.  MMA striking will always have some separation from other striking arts due to the takedown concern, but aside from that, Muay Thai has the least restrictive set outside of Lethwei.  However, headbutts are illegal in MMA so take that away and you have Muay Thai with little hand protection (they don't use Thai gloves).  I've only dabbled in Kyokushin within the context of Muay Thai/MMA/General Striking, but the low kick is probably one of the better takeaways.  Kyokushin was what was mixed with Muay Thai and Western Boxing into what has become "Dutch-style" kickboxing.  

 

Just curious, I've noticed you seem to create threads about the merits of individual arts.  Are you trying to pick one?  If you're trying to figure out what's best, why don't just do MMA?  It's the most all-encompassing training of what's reasonably available.  

No. Been rolling and doing Muay Thai since I was a kid. Currently boxing. 

 

Ive noticed a lot of high level fighters have been incorporating TMA more and more (Cejudo, McGregor, Yoel Romero, Pitbull In Bellator). It’s very interesting, thinking outside the box is a must in MMA.

Nice, have you done MMA?  Putting it all together?  There's certainly elements from TMAs that can work, but in the context of MMA there will always need to be adjustments to be made.  The best advantage TMAs can offer is simply the fact that other guys may not have seen the techniques much before.  A good gym won't emphasize just one style but will simply teach "striking".  Even a pure muay thai gym, if to bound to the idea of "traditional" muay thai, can be limiting.