UnderGround Forums Kakutogi Road: The Complete History of MMA Vol 1

11 days ago
1/1/01
Posts: 13767
T.Jay Thompson -

SUBSCRIBED for later!

 

Who was the guy who gave big head Todd a sore big head and scattered the monsters like poultry at one of your events.

10 days ago
1/1/01
Posts: 14219

Just got my (hopefully) 3rd last interview done. Two more to go and then I go into hiding working feverishly for a year or so.

10 days ago
1/9/20
Posts: 923
William C -

Just got my (hopefully) 3rd last interview done. Two more to go and then I go into hiding working feverishly for a year or so.

There is no hiding from the Underground!

10 days ago
1/1/01
Posts: 14221

lol! I pass the interview baton to you. I had a ton of good ones lined up also.

10 days ago
9/14/13
Posts: 7040

TELL ME YOU"RE DOING THE TAKAHASHI ONE BEFORE YOUR HIATUS!

10 days ago
1/1/01
Posts: 14222
flemingo - 

TELL ME YOU"RE DOING THE TAKAHASHI ONE BEFORE YOUR HIATUS!


lol- we're in talks with Takahashi for an interview. All the questions are set. He's the next interview I'm focusing on (and the second last).

Vernon is likely (?) the last interview to go online pre-books release though. That'll be like half of the interviews for the books that'll be online.

9 days ago
9/14/13
Posts: 7041

Seeing as we've already had the berbick vs Takada match covered by the kakutogi road, here is my take on it

9 days ago
1/9/20
Posts: 924
flemingo -

Seeing as we've already had the berbick vs Takada match covered by the kakutogi road, here is my take on it

Thanks for sharing! We always need more old school shoots. What's paticularly sad about all this, is that Berbick probably could have put a serious beating on Takada, despite the rules not being in his favor, had he simply bucked it up, and went on with it. You also have to wonder if he paid any attention to the Warring/Scott fight, and thought about what he might be getting himself into. 

9 days ago
9/14/13
Posts: 7042
mbetz1981 -
flemingo -

Seeing as we've already had the berbick vs Takada match covered by the kakutogi road, here is my take on it

Thanks for sharing! We always need more old school shoots. What's paticularly sad about all this, is that Berbick probably could have put a serious beating on Takada, despite the rules not being in his favor, had he simply bucked it up, and went on with it. You also have to wonder if he paid any attention to the Warring/Scott fight, and thought about what he might be getting himself into. 

My thoughts were that he had seen that fight, which is why it looked like he wanted to poop during the national anthems

6 days ago
1/9/20
Posts: 927

Attention! I was recently interviewd by WE ARE RIZIN! about the Kakutogi Road, and various MMA topics. If you, or anyone you know, would like to learn more about this project, then here is a link to that podcast: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/141-kakutogi-road-interview-with-creator-michael/id1520266182?i=1000495848589

5 days ago
9/14/13
Posts: 7046

4 days ago
1/9/20
Posts: 929
flemingo -

Awesome!! If you want I'll share it with him. He might get a kick out of it. 

4 days ago
8/11/14
Posts: 409

in

4 days ago
1/9/20
Posts: 931
flemingo -

I forwarded your video to Billy Scott, and he wishes to thank you, and say it's much appreciated.

Edited: 4 days ago
1/1/01
Posts: 13818

Ishikawa with an interesting lockflow. Ishikawa was in one of the first 'MMA" instructionals, Fujiwara's submission master series from 93'

Uploaded by Mike the hammer martelle

4 days ago
1/9/20
Posts: 932
de braco -

Ishikawa with an interesting lockflow. Ishikawa was in one of the first 'MMA" instructionals, Fujiwara's submission master series from 93'

Uploaded by Mike the hammer martelle

You know you've entered forever-legendary status when you were part of THE SHOOTING.

4 days ago
1/1/01
Posts: 13822

I think ishikawa is based out of Mississauga Ontario now, So if anyone from that area is looking for a place to train shooting/catch, that'd probably be a good place to start. He was trained by Satoru "Tigermask" Sayama, Karl Gotch, Yoshiaki Fujiwara and Boris Malenko, so he's got a good resumé.

 

I found this Takada vs Albright program on ebay, it has little vignettes on the older gaijin associated with the UWFI, as coaches and commissioners both. The Thesz belt was being used by the UWFI for legitimacy, as it was and is by far, the most legitimate title in Wrestling history, being able to be traced back from Thesz directly to Frank Gotch

 

 

 

 

4 days ago
1/9/20
Posts: 933
de braco -

I think ishikawa is based out of Mississauga Ontario now, So if anyone from that area is looking for a place to train shooting/catch, that'd probably be a good place to start. He was trained by Satoru "Tigermask" Sayama, Karl Gotch, Yoshiaki Fujiwara and Boris Malenko, so he's got a good resumé.

 

I found this Takada vs Albright program on ebay, it has little vignettes on the older gaijin associated with the UWFI, as coaches and commissioners both. The Thesz belt was being used by the UWFI for legitimacy, as it was and is by far, the most legitimate title in Wrestling history, being able to be traced back from Thesz directly to Frank Gotch

 

 

 

 

That's amazing and very appropo as we are now heading into 1992. I'm sure will be seeing more Thesz in the days to come. 

4 days ago
1/1/01
Posts: 1897

SUb

3 days ago
1/1/01
Posts: 13826

when Inoki first broke off and founded new japan, Lou let NJPW use the belt to give inoki legitimacy. Lou and Karl both put inoki over also, in both singles and tag teams

3 days ago
1/1/01
Posts: 14227

AFAIK Ishikawa is back in Japan

3 days ago
1/1/01
Posts: 13829

well that didn't last long

3 days ago
9/14/13
Posts: 7054
de braco -

well that didn't last long

he was at the battlearts academy for a year or 3 iirc, so a half decent amount of time

2 days ago
1/1/01
Posts: 13833

ya, that aint like moving across town, were talking hemispheres and cultures, milk in fucking bags! BAGS!!! HOSERS!!!

 

1 day ago
1/9/20
Posts: 935

1991 Shoot-Wrestling Year in Review

*Editors Note: Authors, Michael Betz and Mike Lorefice will be preceeded by their intials. *

We at Kakutogi HQ had the recent honor of compiling all of the best moments of each of the 1991 shoot- leagues, one at a time, in isolation, and now it’s time for the final act in our 1991 Year-End-Extravaganza as we put it all together. Yes, this will be dedicated to examining 1991 in its totality, as it pertains to shoot-wrestling and the roots of MMA.  

ML: Normally wrestling leagues splintering is bad for the fans because it does little beyond further dilute the talent pool, and while there was a sense of that in 1991, mostly in RINGS since Akira Maeda was ever the lone wolf, the first year of UWF-I, PWFG, & RINGS were characterized by a greater sense of freedom to express your particular brand of martial arts, to have your own focus and quirks without them simply feeling like pro wrestling stabs at marketing. There were a few veterans who changed their most notably Masakatsu Funaki & Kazuo Yamazaki moving more toward realism, but predominantly the sudden excess of available roster spots gave wrestlers who had only a handful of matches in the U.W.F., most notably Kiyoshi Tamura, Ken Shamrock, Yusuke Fuke, & Masahito Kakihara or were outright rookies, most notably Volk Han, Hiromitsu Kanehara, Willie Peeters, & Billy Scott the ability to do their thing in a landscape that was very different, and actually evolving. Much of this difference had to do with many of the new wrestlers not being pro wrestlers who were trained in the New Japan dojo, and had worked there before the U.W.F.. At the very least, the natives trained in the U.W.F. showed a more realistic working on judo rather than lariats and topes, but it was really the actual martial artists who, in the absence of much legitimate competition, found they could make something of a living doing something that actually utilized their skills to an extent, and didn't leave them feeling embarrassed and ashamed. RINGS was at the forefront of this revolution, bringing in sambo champion Han, bringing back judo silver medalist Chris Dolman and his assortment of Dutch kickboxers and proto MMA fighters, with former bouncer Dick Vrij & Olympic judoka Willy Wilhelm being Maeda's first foes.

 

Having a bunch of rookies has rarely lead to good pro wrestling matches, as they mostly have the same trainer teaching them the same basic holds and counter holds, without much to differentiate them beyond the better athletes and quicker learners rising to the top faster, though probably still getting squashed by whoever the tallest or heaviest stiff in the lot is. Luckily, this was totally not the case in shoot wrestling because there were so many disparate skills and backgrounds on display, honed through years of practicing their more limited and focused arts with a variety of teams, gyms, and coaches. Sometimes rounding out those skills and opening the specialists up enough that they had the striking or submission skills to maintain interest in a game that required them to fight both standing and on the mat took some real effort, but the good news is these guys were, for the most part, already really good in some aspects of the sport that would serve them really well. More importantly, having specialists in all of the legitimate fighting backgrounds other than BJJ really upped the overall level of these skills among their opponents. This was particularly noticeable when it came to amateur wrestling, which seemed to barely exist at the start of the year but be widespread and decent to good amongst most of the regulars fighters by the end.

 

Minoru SuzukiThere was also refreshingly much less of that overriding pro wrestling philosophy of what you should and shouldn't be doing because everyone wasn't just training the same sequences in the same gym. You were supposed to be realistic, but beyond that the performers seemed to learn from each other, experimenting to try to add new skills to what they'd been doing for years and eliminate the weaknesses they didn't have to deal with in their base arts. Though the new leagues were run by guys who participated in the old one, they surprisingly felt fairly distinct, with UWF-I leaning most toward the flashy end of the spectrum despite having the most shoots with Ohe's regular kickboxing matches & the wrestler vs. boxer shenanigans, PWFG leaning most toward the realistic end of the spectrum, and RINGS being the most martial artist and big show oriented by relying mostly on outsiders with legitimate sports backgrounds. All three leagues ultimately had 1 great, must see wrestler who made the promotion worth following. While obviously it's disappointing that with no interpromotional activity after the U.W.F. split, these guys never fought each other, but the rankings were also very skewed by the odd match making, which saw peculiarities such as Suzuki & Funaki never facing off during their two years in PWFG, while Ken Shamrock faced Suzuki 5 times & Funaki 4 during that stretch. Overall though, this was a really exciting year for quasi shooting, maybe the best year in the sense that they really felt cutting edge and seemed to be advancing the sport because Shooto was so under the radar that these pro wrestling leagues were still as close as most fans got to the real thing, and certainly closer to that concept than what we'd seen in the previous decade.