UnderGround Forums Ken Shamrock KO'd Mark Coleman in training ?

5/24/20 12:40 AM
9/18/09
Posts: 4005

ttt

5/24/20 12:46 AM
5/10/04
Posts: 20257
Funaki Masakatsu #1 - 

ttt





FUNAKI !!!
5/24/20 12:54 AM
2/12/14
Posts: 1774
RUSRedDevil -

Ken had A truly unique mix of extreme strength/explosion potential (which he maximized with pharmaceuticals but 99% of people could take all the juice they want they wouldn’t turn into a Ken Shamrock). And if you look at his entire body of work as a pro wrestler/grappler. He had some all-time great technical bouts in the attitude area, had extremly solid stand up wrestling fundamentals that he could go toe to toe with guys with elite credentials he had no business being shot to hang with let alone get the better of (similar to gsp) and his catch game transitions and sub game I think 1994 Ken would be a top 5 hwt at least with 9 months of modern mma training camp adustments to strategy/rules. Even at 205 prime Ken before he wrecked his body in wwe would beat the sh*t out of guys like Anthony smith no offense.

 

****. It seems like he’s the Scotty Pippen to Jordan but Guy Metzger was almost equally as well rounded athlete way ahead of the time...

How good was his bjj game? Does he still train? 

5/24/20 1:07 AM
5/10/04
Posts: 20258
RUSRedDevil - 

Ken had A truly unique mix of extreme strength/explosion potential (which he maximized with pharmaceuticals but 99% of people could take all the juice they want they wouldn’t turn into a Ken Shamrock). And if you look at his entire body of work as a pro wrestler/grappler. He had some all-time great technical bouts in the attitude area, had extremly solid stand up wrestling fundamentals that he could go toe to toe with guys with elite credentials he had no business being shot to hang with let alone get the better of (similar to gsp) and his catch game transitions and sub game I think 1994 Ken would be a top 5 hwt at least with 9 months of modern mma training camp adustments to strategy/rules. Even at 205 prime Ken before he wrecked his body in wwe would beat the sh*t out of guys like Anthony smith no offense.

 

****. It seems like he’s the Scotty Pippen to Jordan but Guy Metzger was almost equally as well rounded athlete way ahead of the time...



Big fan of Mezger!

My biggest criticism of Mezger, was his seeming lack of explosive killer instinct-- especially in striking exchanges.

Sometimes,Guy looked more like he was sparring than fighting.

The skill and positioning was all there -- he just needed to turn it up a notch.


IMHO
5/24/20 9:04 AM
1/1/01
Posts: 16100

Coleman's thoughts on training was very different. Who should you believe?  Ken or Mark?

5/24/20 5:38 PM
5/28/03
Posts: 71746

Ken's entire game was built around his physicality. He was super strong and had a sick set of lungs for the time. He wasnt doing BJJ and wasnt gonna deviate from his A options.

Very tough for his era and his pride run had some great moments.

The Sakuraba match made zero sense.

Edited: 5/24/20 5:53 PM
11/20/09
Posts: 44274
Pain Headquarters -
kungfugrip - Ko the guy you are training for a big fight? Great training!

Old school MMA training was a lot different than it is today. It wasn’t as calculated and organized as it is now. Just like the sport evolves, so does it’s training. Training for a fight back in those days was pretty much trying to simulate the fight as much as possible without getting injured, but shit happens. It still happens today! Not remotely as often or intentionally, but accidents happen.

One should also take into account what the mma landscape was like at this time.

NHB=no hold barred is what it was more commonly referred to as. 

You have to remember, one night tournaments were at it's peak when Ken Shamrock was fighting.  

Tournament fights was where it was at.  The thought behind the hardcore training, was they needed to weed out the weak.  If you couldn't hack it in training, you weren't going to hack it in the real thing.  

Getting beat up bruised and battered was not as shunned back then because of what you were preparing for. 

Fighters of today, know they have 6-8 weeks to train for one guy, one skillset so their training is more skill based for one set of skills for one fight on one night. 

I promise you if guys had to train to fight unknown opponents with unknown skill, their training regimes would be different. 

Edited: 5/24/20 6:14 PM
1/1/01
Posts: 16261
onepunchJD -
RUSRedDevil - 

Ken had A truly unique mix of extreme strength/explosion potential (which he maximized with pharmaceuticals but 99% of people could take all the juice they want they wouldn’t turn into a Ken Shamrock). And if you look at his entire body of work as a pro wrestler/grappler. He had some all-time great technical bouts in the attitude area, had extremly solid stand up wrestling fundamentals that he could go toe to toe with guys with elite credentials he had no business being shot to hang with let alone get the better of (similar to gsp) and his catch game transitions and sub game I think 1994 Ken would be a top 5 hwt at least with 9 months of modern mma training camp adustments to strategy/rules. Even at 205 prime Ken before he wrecked his body in wwe would beat the sh*t out of guys like Anthony smith no offense.

 

****. It seems like he’s the Scotty Pippen to Jordan but Guy Metzger was almost equally as well rounded athlete way ahead of the time...



Big fan of Mezger!

My biggest criticism of Mezger, was his seeming lack of explosive killer instinct-- especially in striking exchanges.

Sometimes,Guy looked more like he was sparring than fighting.

The skill and positioning was all there -- he just needed to turn it up a notch.


IMHO

Guy was always a hair away from being the best in the world.  He was robbed vs Saku, had Chuck but all beat until the knockout. He definitely seemed to get the short end of the stick in the Arona decision and you could argue against Nog as well. He seemed to be in control against Wanderlei until the knockout.  He openly admitted he didn't like hurting people.  He was a really tough and skilled fighter.  Very underrated.  

5/24/20 8:04 PM
9/18/09
Posts: 4006
onepunchJD -
Funaki Masakatsu #1 - 

ttt





FUNAKI !!!

Hey old friend :)

5/25/20 2:41 PM
9/27/15
Posts: 12304
JoeHurley -  People underestimate Ken based on certain fights, but back in his day he was a beast who would smash people in training. He was way tougher than people think. You never hear anyone who has trained with him say otherwise. Phone Post

Key words here IN TRAINING....Shamrock seems like Ruas in that he was a gym monster but when it came to fight night, he crumbled...Shamrocks actual Mma fights were very underwhelming for the most part

Shanrock couldn't choke out Kimbo lol
5/25/20 2:46 PM
9/27/15
Posts: 12305
SKARHEAD - 
Ashe Bowman - ALOT of current UFC and MMA stars like Roy Nelson,Ricco Rodriguez,Anthony Johnson,John Gunderson,Pat Healy,and Evan Dunham all trained with us @ Susanville/Reno and I'm sure they would all agree that even then the "old man" still hadn't lost it all. Ken had all of us try and take him down during training one day while he in the middle... Not one of us took him down. But as we all know age catches up with us. Is it fair to say that he is "The World's Most Dangerous OLD Man"?

Just to be clear...are you saying Roy Nelson, Ricco Rodriguez, & Anthony Rumble Johnson couldn't take Ken down ?



Also...how old was Ken @ the time ?

Please beware of gym training stories..there have been some outrageous and mythical training stories passed around on here and other places and the actual reality of what happened was not even close lol
5/25/20 2:51 PM
9/27/15
Posts: 12306
HELWIG - 

Ken's entire game was built around his physicality. He was super strong and had a sick set of lungs for the time. He wasnt doing BJJ and wasnt gonna deviate from his A options.

Very tough for his era and his pride run had some great moments.

The Sakuraba match made zero sense.


Yes it was and let's be honest, Ken was on steroids his entire career..where would he have been without them? Serious question ..
5/25/20 2:55 PM
9/27/15
Posts: 12307
onepunchJD - 
RUSRedDevil - 

Ken had A truly unique mix of extreme strength/explosion potential (which he maximized with pharmaceuticals but 99% of people could take all the juice they want they wouldn’t turn into a Ken Shamrock). And if you look at his entire body of work as a pro wrestler/grappler. He had some all-time great technical bouts in the attitude area, had extremly solid stand up wrestling fundamentals that he could go toe to toe with guys with elite credentials he had no business being shot to hang with let alone get the better of (similar to gsp) and his catch game transitions and sub game I think 1994 Ken would be a top 5 hwt at least with 9 months of modern mma training camp adustments to strategy/rules. Even at 205 prime Ken before he wrecked his body in wwe would beat the sh*t out of guys like Anthony smith no offense.

 

****. It seems like he’s the Scotty Pippen to Jordan but Guy Metzger was almost equally as well rounded athlete way ahead of the time...



Big fan of Mezger!

My biggest criticism of Mezger, was his seeming lack of explosive killer instinct-- especially in striking exchanges.

Sometimes,Guy looked more like he was sparring than fighting.

The skill and positioning was all there -- he just needed to turn it up a notch.


IMHO

I just got done watching Tito/Mezger 1..Tito was pounding his head in and Guy tapped but the ref didn't stop it..oh well, Tito got him in the rematch and then beat his trainer Ken up not once but twice later on ..Tito basically shut down the entire Lions Den team by himself lol
5/25/20 2:58 PM
9/27/15
Posts: 12308
D241 - 
Pain Headquarters -
kungfugrip - Ko the guy you are training for a big fight? Great training!

Old school MMA training was a lot different than it is today. It wasn’t as calculated and organized as it is now. Just like the sport evolves, so does it’s training. Training for a fight back in those days was pretty much trying to simulate the fight as much as possible without getting injured, but shit happens. It still happens today! Not remotely as often or intentionally, but accidents happen.

One should also take into account what the mma landscape was like at this time.

NHB=no hold barred is what it was more commonly referred to as. 

You have to remember, one night tournaments were at it's peak when Ken Shamrock was fighting.  

Tournament fights was where it was at.  The thought behind the hardcore training, was they needed to weed out the weak.  If you couldn't hack it in training, you weren't going to hack it in the real thing.  

Getting beat up bruised and battered was not as shunned back then because of what you were preparing for. 

Fighters of today, know they have 6-8 weeks to train for one guy, one skillset so their training is more skill based for one set of skills for one fight on one night. 

I promise you if guys had to train to fight unknown opponents with unknown skill, their training regimes would be different. 


Very true..Ken was a big proponent of super old school hardcore training...I forget though, this type of training led him to win how many ufc tournaments?
5/25/20 2:58 PM
9/27/15
Posts: 12309
D241 - 
Pain Headquarters -
kungfugrip - Ko the guy you are training for a big fight? Great training!

Old school MMA training was a lot different than it is today. It wasn’t as calculated and organized as it is now. Just like the sport evolves, so does it’s training. Training for a fight back in those days was pretty much trying to simulate the fight as much as possible without getting injured, but shit happens. It still happens today! Not remotely as often or intentionally, but accidents happen.

One should also take into account what the mma landscape was like at this time.

NHB=no hold barred is what it was more commonly referred to as. 

You have to remember, one night tournaments were at it's peak when Ken Shamrock was fighting.  

Tournament fights was where it was at.  The thought behind the hardcore training, was they needed to weed out the weak.  If you couldn't hack it in training, you weren't going to hack it in the real thing.  

Getting beat up bruised and battered was not as shunned back then because of what you were preparing for. 

Fighters of today, know they have 6-8 weeks to train for one guy, one skillset so their training is more skill based for one set of skills for one fight on one night. 

I promise you if guys had to train to fight unknown opponents with unknown skill, their training regimes would be different. 


Very true..Ken was a big proponent of super old school hardcore training...I forget though, this type of training led him to win how many ufc tournaments?
5/25/20 6:46 PM
6/26/06
Posts: 14142
onepunchJD - 
RUSRedDevil - 

Ken had A truly unique mix of extreme strength/explosion potential (which he maximized with pharmaceuticals but 99% of people could take all the juice they want they wouldn’t turn into a Ken Shamrock). And if you look at his entire body of work as a pro wrestler/grappler. He had some all-time great technical bouts in the attitude area, had extremly solid stand up wrestling fundamentals that he could go toe to toe with guys with elite credentials he had no business being shot to hang with let alone get the better of (similar to gsp) and his catch game transitions and sub game I think 1994 Ken would be a top 5 hwt at least with 9 months of modern mma training camp adustments to strategy/rules. Even at 205 prime Ken before he wrecked his body in wwe would beat the sh*t out of guys like Anthony smith no offense.

 

****. It seems like he’s the Scotty Pippen to Jordan but Guy Metzger was almost equally as well rounded athlete way ahead of the time...



Big fan of Mezger!

My biggest criticism of Mezger, was his seeming lack of explosive killer instinct-- especially in striking exchanges.

Sometimes,Guy looked more like he was sparring than fighting.

The skill and positioning was all there -- he just needed to turn it up a notch.


IMHO

A lot of great athletes fought this way, to them it was a sport and a competition but not a life or death struggle like Ken or Fedor.
5/25/20 6:53 PM
5/28/03
Posts: 71769

"I promise you if guys had to train to fight unknown opponents with unknown skill, their training regimes would be different."

 

100%

 

The rules ALWAYS determine the and approach that will prevail.

 

Guys are training in 20 thousand square ft facilities with in house chiro/massage/nutritionist with 8 weeks to prepare for one guy 3 x 5 min rounds.

 

Vovchachyn showed up ready to fight 3 different men in one night while borrowing a jock strap he shared with another Russian fighter and did 1 x 30 min rounds BARE KNUCKLE.

 

Thats insane but it was the norm. 

 
 
5/25/20 10:05 PM
5/10/04
Posts: 20259


one ear -


You are obviously a Ken hater, and your bullshit less-than-subtle comments lack context.


For some reason I thought I remembered you being a knowledgeable poster -- but I must have you confused with someone else -- because lately you've been stinking up around here.
5/25/20 10:28 PM
5/10/04
Posts: 20260
ons ear - 
onepunchJD - 
RUSRedDevil - 

Ken had A truly unique mix of extreme strength/explosion potential (which he maximized with pharmaceuticals but 99% of people could take all the juice they want they wouldn’t turn into a Ken Shamrock). And if you look at his entire body of work as a pro wrestler/grappler. He had some all-time great technical bouts in the attitude area, had extremly solid stand up wrestling fundamentals that he could go toe to toe with guys with elite credentials he had no business being shot to hang with let alone get the better of (similar to gsp) and his catch game transitions and sub game I think 1994 Ken would be a top 5 hwt at least with 9 months of modern mma training camp adustments to strategy/rules. Even at 205 prime Ken before he wrecked his body in wwe would beat the sh*t out of guys like Anthony smith no offense.

 

****. It seems like he’s the Scotty Pippen to Jordan but Guy Metzger was almost equally as well rounded athlete way ahead of the time...



Big fan of Mezger!

My biggest criticism of Mezger, was his seeming lack of explosive killer instinct-- especially in striking exchanges.

Sometimes,Guy looked more like he was sparring than fighting.

The skill and positioning was all there -- he just needed to turn it up a notch.


IMHO

I just got done watching Tito/Mezger 1..Tito was pounding his head in and Guy tapped but the ref didn't stop it..oh well, Tito got him in the rematch and then beat his trainer Ken up not once but twice later on ..Tito basically shut down the entire Lions Den team by himself lol



Ken was far past his prime when he fought Tito, and everyone knows it.



Tito himself put Ken on his Mt.Rushmore of MMA -- so there is obviously respect there.



You are just talking shit.
5/26/20 10:19 AM
3/15/10
Posts: 24461
buddie -
onepunchJD -
RUSRedDevil - 

Ken had A truly unique mix of extreme strength/explosion potential (which he maximized with pharmaceuticals but 99% of people could take all the juice they want they wouldn’t turn into a Ken Shamrock). And if you look at his entire body of work as a pro wrestler/grappler. He had some all-time great technical bouts in the attitude area, had extremly solid stand up wrestling fundamentals that he could go toe to toe with guys with elite credentials he had no business being shot to hang with let alone get the better of (similar to gsp) and his catch game transitions and sub game I think 1994 Ken would be a top 5 hwt at least with 9 months of modern mma training camp adustments to strategy/rules. Even at 205 prime Ken before he wrecked his body in wwe would beat the sh*t out of guys like Anthony smith no offense.

 

****. It seems like he’s the Scotty Pippen to Jordan but Guy Metzger was almost equally as well rounded athlete way ahead of the time...



Big fan of Mezger!

My biggest criticism of Mezger, was his seeming lack of explosive killer instinct-- especially in striking exchanges.

Sometimes,Guy looked more like he was sparring than fighting.

The skill and positioning was all there -- he just needed to turn it up a notch.


IMHO

Guy was always a hair away from being the best in the world.  He was robbed vs Saku, had Chuck but all beat until the knockout. He definitely seemed to get the short end of the stick in the Arona decision and you could argue against Nog as well. He seemed to be in control against Wanderlei until the knockout.  He openly admitted he didn't like hurting people.  He was a really tough and skilled fighter.  Very underrated.  

You mean in control against Wanderlei until the headbutt.

5/26/20 10:22 AM
3/15/10
Posts: 24462

Ken/Tito was what brought me back to MMA for good.

Used to watch PPV recordings or rent tapes of the first UFCs in high school then was out for years. Saw a picture of Shamrock’s face after UFC 40 and had to know what happened to Ken. Got me right back on the train for good.

5/26/20 10:46 AM
11/30/07
Posts: 65554
buddie -
onepunchJD -
RUSRedDevil - 

Ken had A truly unique mix of extreme strength/explosion potential (which he maximized with pharmaceuticals but 99% of people could take all the juice they want they wouldn’t turn into a Ken Shamrock). And if you look at his entire body of work as a pro wrestler/grappler. He had some all-time great technical bouts in the attitude area, had extremly solid stand up wrestling fundamentals that he could go toe to toe with guys with elite credentials he had no business being shot to hang with let alone get the better of (similar to gsp) and his catch game transitions and sub game I think 1994 Ken would be a top 5 hwt at least with 9 months of modern mma training camp adustments to strategy/rules. Even at 205 prime Ken before he wrecked his body in wwe would beat the sh*t out of guys like Anthony smith no offense.

 

****. It seems like he’s the Scotty Pippen to Jordan but Guy Metzger was almost equally as well rounded athlete way ahead of the time...



Big fan of Mezger!

My biggest criticism of Mezger, was his seeming lack of explosive killer instinct-- especially in striking exchanges.

Sometimes,Guy looked more like he was sparring than fighting.

The skill and positioning was all there -- he just needed to turn it up a notch.


IMHO

Guy was always a hair away from being the best in the world.  He was robbed vs Saku, had Chuck but all beat until the knockout. He definitely seemed to get the short end of the stick in the Arona decision and you could argue against Nog as well. He seemed to be in control against Wanderlei until the knockout.  He openly admitted he didn't like hurting people.  He was a really tough and skilled fighter.  Very underrated.  

He was tooling wanderlei til the headbutt. 

5/30/20 5:24 PM
5/11/04
Posts: 37935
ons ear - 
SKARHEAD - 
Ashe Bowman - ALOT of current UFC and MMA stars like Roy Nelson,Ricco Rodriguez,Anthony Johnson,John Gunderson,Pat Healy,and Evan Dunham all trained with us @ Susanville/Reno and I'm sure they would all agree that even then the "old man" still hadn't lost it all. Ken had all of us try and take him down during training one day while he in the middle... Not one of us took him down. But as we all know age catches up with us. Is it fair to say that he is "The World's Most Dangerous OLD Man"?

Just to be clear...are you saying Roy Nelson, Ricco Rodriguez, & Anthony Rumble Johnson couldn't take Ken down ?



Also...how old was Ken @ the time ?

Please beware of gym training stories..there have been some outrageous and mythical training stories passed around on here and other places and the actual reality of what happened was not even close lol

I'll take a 1st hand account from an old school green namer over yours
5/30/20 6:15 PM
5/10/04
Posts: 20330
SKARHEAD - 
ons ear - 
SKARHEAD - 
Ashe Bowman - ALOT of current UFC and MMA stars like Roy Nelson,Ricco Rodriguez,Anthony Johnson,John Gunderson,Pat Healy,and Evan Dunham all trained with us @ Susanville/Reno and I'm sure they would all agree that even then the "old man" still hadn't lost it all. Ken had all of us try and take him down during training one day while he in the middle... Not one of us took him down. But as we all know age catches up with us. Is it fair to say that he is "The World's Most Dangerous OLD Man"?

Just to be clear...are you saying Roy Nelson, Ricco Rodriguez, & Anthony Rumble Johnson couldn't take Ken down ?



Also...how old was Ken @ the time ?

Please beware of gym training stories..there have been some outrageous and mythical training stories passed around on here and other places and the actual reality of what happened was not even close lol

I'll take a 1st hand account from an old school green namer over yours



Especially when its confirming a long standing rumor spread in gyms and underground forums :)
5/30/20 6:42 PM
3/23/06
Posts: 7059
cheesesteak - Back in the day Ken used to rough everyone up in training. It's during a real match is where he mentally crumbled.