UnderGround Forums Max is fantastic but...

Edited: 1/16/21 8:51 PM
1/4/15
Posts: 1225

It is very concerning to me that he can land on a guy that much and not put him away.

 

Hate to be a dick when he put in such an amazing performance but all I could think when he was just teeing off was "max must hit like a bunny rabbit"

Most strikes attempted and possibly most ever landed on target in the ufc ever and katar weathered it.

Yes I'm sure Kelvin is tough as shit but at some point it's also about the offensive power of the guy punching aswell surely?

 

145 Conor lands on you like that you aren't making it out of the first 20 seconds let alone 5 entire god damn rounds

1/16/21 8:57 PM
2/19/13
Posts: 419

How many walk off KO’s do the Diaz brothers have? 
Volume wins fights. He doesn’t have to knock people out to win. He utterly dominated and wasn’t in trouble once. Why would that concern you? 

1/16/21 9:15 PM
9/22/11
Posts: 2248

More props to Kattars toughness, less criticism to Max’s power. 

1/16/21 9:24 PM
2/9/09
Posts: 15622

Who cares? Mayweather hardly KO'd anyone and homie was 50-0. 

1/16/21 9:53 PM
1/4/15
Posts: 1226
Mkk11 -

How many walk off KO’s do the Diaz brothers have? 
Volume wins fights. He doesn’t have to knock people out to win. He utterly dominated and wasn’t in trouble once. Why would that concern you? 

they also have very salty records.

 

and when max goes up against a certain level of fighter and has no ability to put them away his volume is worthless cause they dont just let him dictate the pace.

 

look at Dustin and Volk

 

Both of them beat max by not allowing him to dictate the fight and once they do that they are basically in zero trouble because he has no ability to finish.

 

Its honestly a huge hole in his game and the more technical the fighter the worse hes gonna do.

 

pace and volume are great but you need to actually be able to finish guys.

1/16/21 9:57 PM
10/16/09
Posts: 3022

Can’t really say it’s a HUGE hole if only the most elite fighters can exploit it

1/16/21 10:10 PM
11/24/10
Posts: 3124

Kelvin Katar new mythical fighter

1/16/21 10:51 PM
6/9/16
Posts: 10189

1/16/21 10:55 PM
1/1/01
Posts: 5908

Why can't Matt Galloway ko anyone!?

1/16/21 10:59 PM
8/20/08
Posts: 6037

Partly because Max is a bit of an armpuncher. If he pushes off his back foot, turns his hips and gets his shoulder into his punches, he might not land as many punches. 

1/16/21 11:26 PM
12/2/11
Posts: 1182

Kattar was fucking rocked bad multiple times.. seemed like the cage was holding him up at times. Most fighters would've been out, Kattar is just that fucking tough.....

 

OP is a douche bag 

1/16/21 11:34 PM
1/1/01
Posts: 52718

He did just fine against Volk. He got smashed by Justin. 

By the way 145 lb Conor no longer exists. 

1/16/21 11:42 PM
1/4/15
Posts: 1227
Samoa -

He did just fine against Volk. He got smashed by Justin. 

By the way 145 lb Conor no longer exists. 

The first fight against volk was a dominant win by Alex 

Second was closer but once again volk put a stop to his momentum and his game fizzled out cause he has no ability to hurt you with one shot. His damage has to be accumulative. So if he isn't allowed to just tee off on someone for rounds at a time he can't really hurt you.

 

Dustin beat him because his punches were doing more damage

 

 

 

 

 

1/16/21 11:49 PM
2/1/07
Posts: 17317
Taco Muncher -

Great photo

1/16/21 11:52 PM
1/1/01
Posts: 52720
watahhh -
Samoa -

He did just fine against Volk. He got smashed by Justin. 

By the way 145 lb Conor no longer exists. 

The first fight against volk was a dominant win by Alex 

Second was closer but once again volk put a stop to his momentum and his game fizzled out cause he has no ability to hurt you with one shot. His damage has to be accumulative. So if he isn't allowed to just tee off on someone for rounds at a time he can't really hurt you.

 

Dustin beat him because his punches were doing more damage

 

 

 

 

 

The only knockdowns in the 2nd fight were both by Max right?  Again he was right there with Volk. He lost the first one decisively and the 2nd one was close. He wasn’t getting smashed. There aren’t many fighters that have solved his glaring weakness that you claim he has. 

1/17/21 12:12 AM
9/2/10
Posts: 733

Most of the high volume guys have little power - Diaz bros, Colby, Max, Bisping etc

Edited: 1/17/21 12:28 AM
1/16/18
Posts: 856

If he tried to put people away with more power would he have the 5 round stamina? I think that’s a huge part of Max’s game and he knows how to control it. Like Conor in the first Diaz fight (punched himself out). Smart fighting in my opinion by Max. And also, most fighters are out in the 3rd/4th round especially after that elbow. 

1/17/21 1:10 AM
10/30/14
Posts: 3534

Conor is a stud. In early rounds. 
 

That’s the trade off. 
 

But both guys are Hall of Famers though so both clearly work though no?

1/17/21 5:21 AM
1/4/15
Posts: 1228
Rear Naked Bloke -

Conor is a stud. In early rounds. 
 

That’s the trade off. 
 

But both guys are Hall of Famers though so both clearly work though no?

Obviously his strategy is a good one and it works almost all the time. 

 

But I think certain guys who know how to manipulate the meta of the fight in terms of momentum and rhythm will always have his number.

Highly technical camps with highly technical strikers aren't going to let him have his way all the time on the feet like ortega and kattar have.

And when they don't let him have his way he's got little to no ability to change it because he can't hurt you with a shot.

 

By no means am I saying max is a bad fighter. That would be a ludicrous statement but I feel like this is a deficit in his skill set.

He just doesn't seem to have a plan B when his strategy of overwhelm with volume doesn't work due to his being very light on hard punishing damage strike to strike.

1/17/21 6:05 AM
2/9/09
Posts: 15632
watahhh -
Rear Naked Bloke -

Conor is a stud. In early rounds. 
 

That’s the trade off. 
 

But both guys are Hall of Famers though so both clearly work though no?

Obviously his strategy is a good one and it works almost all the time. 

 

But I think certain guys who know how to manipulate the meta of the fight in terms of momentum and rhythm will always have his number.

Highly technical camps with highly technical strikers aren't going to let him have his way all the time on the feet like ortega and kattar have.

And when they don't let him have his way he's got little to no ability to change it because he can't hurt you with a shot.

 

By no means am I saying max is a bad fighter. That would be a ludicrous statement but I feel like this is a deficit in his skill set.

He just doesn't seem to have a plan B when his strategy of overwhelm with volume doesn't work due to his being very light on hard punishing damage strike to strike.

But he's already beaten all the top guys at 145. So if it aint broke, don't fix it

1/17/21 6:12 AM
11/20/08
Posts: 2695
watahhh -
Rear Naked Bloke -

Conor is a stud. In early rounds. 
 

That’s the trade off. 
 

But both guys are Hall of Famers though so both clearly work though no?

Obviously his strategy is a good one and it works almost all the time. 

 

But I think certain guys who know how to manipulate the meta of the fight in terms of momentum and rhythm will always have his number.

Highly technical camps with highly technical strikers aren't going to let him have his way all the time on the feet like ortega and kattar have.

And when they don't let him have his way he's got little to no ability to change it because he can't hurt you with a shot.

 

By no means am I saying max is a bad fighter. That would be a ludicrous statement but I feel like this is a deficit in his skill set.

He just doesn't seem to have a plan B when his strategy of overwhelm with volume doesn't work due to his being very light on hard punishing damage strike to strike.

I agree, diaz and tony are also similar, great chin, great cardio, high volume. 

 

Once they fight elite guys that have the technical skills they have no answer. 

1/17/21 6:21 AM
1/4/15
Posts: 1229
steak and chicken -
watahhh -
Rear Naked Bloke -

Conor is a stud. In early rounds. 
 

That’s the trade off. 
 

But both guys are Hall of Famers though so both clearly work though no?

Obviously his strategy is a good one and it works almost all the time. 

 

But I think certain guys who know how to manipulate the meta of the fight in terms of momentum and rhythm will always have his number.

Highly technical camps with highly technical strikers aren't going to let him have his way all the time on the feet like ortega and kattar have.

And when they don't let him have his way he's got little to no ability to change it because he can't hurt you with a shot.

 

By no means am I saying max is a bad fighter. That would be a ludicrous statement but I feel like this is a deficit in his skill set.

He just doesn't seem to have a plan B when his strategy of overwhelm with volume doesn't work due to his being very light on hard punishing damage strike to strike.

I agree, diaz and tony are also similar, great chin, great cardio, high volume. 

 

Once they fight elite guys that have the technical skills they have no answer. 

Yea all guys who have trouble really hurting the top guys with shots. They need the volume and when they don't have it they are kinda up shit creek.

Tony with Justin was a prime example. Diaz and jorge same deal.

 

Elite strikers who can hurt you and won't just allow you to establish your pace without a fight will have your number.

 

Max has already been there twice with Alex and Dustin 

I feel like for him to get that belt back he needs to evolve his game to incorporate some power work and not just rely on cardio and pillow fisting your way to a win cause against the best that ain't gonna cut the mustard

 

 

 

 

 

1/17/21 10:00 AM
4/21/06
Posts: 66416

Image may contain: 1 person, playing a musical instrument, standing and beard, text that says 'BLESSED IS BEST LFC Max Holloway landed a UFC record 445 significant

1/17/21 11:35 AM
4/25/16
Posts: 972
The_Pundit -
Taco Muncher -

Great photo

Yeah that's fucking ripshit!

1/17/21 11:43 AM
1/1/01
Posts: 60895
OP, I think you're being a bit idealist.

Remember, Max is the one that hurt Volk in the rematch. While we can argue about who won that fight, Volk never hurt Max over 2 fights and Max dropped Volk in the rematch. You cant put every fighter away. Look at Connor, he is one of the most lethal strikers the game has seen and could not put Diaz away over 2 fights. Perhaps Kattar is one of those fighters that cannot be put away.

Don't overlook that Max has put away many others although we all know he's not a big puncher, he is a volume puncher. Same thing with Ortega, although I think that ended in a TKO, he also hit Ortega over and over and Ortega withstood most of it until late in the fight.

If we are trying to analyze for perfection, sure, if he had a bit more punching power, that would nice but I don't think its any cause for concern.