UnderGround Forums Missing Weight - Automatic Loss

4 days ago
1/1/01
Posts: 24599

its been over 20 years and fighters have been regularly missing weight for fights and nothing is being done to change it. 20-30% cuts in pay for a fight are not enough - the financial benefit of the heavy victory offsets the small temporary loss in wages. I hate massive weight cuts .. so i am biased. 

Maybe I am on an island, but this needs to be addressed more aggressively 

4 days ago
3/4/12
Posts: 1321

If one misses weight then an automatic win bonus should be given to the other and in most cases a NC should be given if the person that misses weight wins the fight.

4 days ago
2/7/13
Posts: 1944

I understand your disapproval, and agree it’s stupid.  However, the bottom line is that their opponent gets to choose whether or not to fight, and most times they don’t get paid if they say no.  So, I don’t think punishing the missing weight fighter is the answer, I think a same day weigh in system is far more likely to have the impact you’re looking for.

4 days ago
1/1/01
Posts: 24600
YourStoryisCoolBro - 

I understand your disapproval, and agree it’s stupid.  However, the bottom line is that their opponent gets to choose whether or not to fight, and most times they don’t get paid if they say no.  So, I don’t think punishing the missing weight fighter is the answer, I think a same day weigh in system is far more likely to have the impact you’re looking for.


IMO there's too much pride and bravado to not to fight even when a fighter doesn't make it. ... I mean it's o OT 3 lbs, right? Ignoring the fact that one fighter cut 30lbs and the other 15lbs. We've all been there and it's rough. Agreed on the same day weigh ins, though. 

4 days ago
1/1/01
Posts: 69211

I'd like to see hydration tests and everyone fights at their walkaround weight. But given our current system, I like Roxanne's suggestion - you start the fight a point down.

4 days ago
7/20/01
Posts: 8173
if they just pay a flat fight fee instead of that show/win horseshit, it'll be solved. especially with some inept judge that never laced up a glove taking away HALF the money you were working for months to get.

do away with that garbage and heavily punish the offender until same-day weigh-ins is the norm. fucking ridiculous
4 days ago
6/23/12
Posts: 18578

There was a promotion overseas that would dock you a point off your final score card per kilogram you missed weight by. I like that. Fine them and penalize them in the cage. 

4 days ago
10/9/10
Posts: 17860
RockTheVote -

There was a promotion overseas that would dock you a point off your final score card per kilogram you missed weight by. I like that. Fine them and penalize them in the cage. 

Yeah I like that idea. I wonder how effective it is. The guy that missed weight needs to go out and try to finish. Don’t want to lose a decision and have that shit affecting your record? Make weight. 

4 days ago
1/1/01
Posts: 67933

I think the guy missing weight should have some of his pay garnished and if the weight is more than 2 pounds the guy who missed weight cannot be credited with a win,  only a nd.  The guy who made weight can get a win on his record and if he loses shouldn't be punished by losing his ranking.

4 days ago
1/1/01
Posts: 67934

No contest

4 days ago
6/27/02
Posts: 9534

I just made this up so be easy on me, but how bout something like...

Fighter A makes weight and fighter B misses.

Fighter A gets show money for both fighters if he does not want to take the fight. If he wants to continue on with the fight, fighter B who missed gets his win bonus with a win and that's it... fighter A keeps show money for both. If fighter B loses, fighter A gets half of fighter B's show money, plus his own show money and win bonus. So fighter B gets half of his show money and an L for his actions.

Something needs to get into these guys heads that it's not ok to miss weight and I hate the decision the guys who make weight have to make when somebody else screws up and gives themselves an advantage at the same time.

4 days ago
2/17/03
Posts: 18004

I don't think it would work.

Fighters who were going to miss weight would simply come up with another excuse -- illness, injury, etc.

If pulling out of a fight generally led to a loss, you'd have fighters pushing through when they really shouldn't. And you'd have fighters penalized who did nothing wrong.

4 days ago
1/1/01
Posts: 24601

has there ever been an analysis done on the win/loss record of fights where a participant missed weight? OK back to the OG for me

4 days ago
9/7/04
Posts: 37576

I fought a guy who missed weight by like 4 pounds. The commission gave me half of his purse and he was weak from trying to make weight. Easy fight. 

4 days ago
6/27/02
Posts: 9538
PTA -

has there ever been an analysis done on the win/loss record of fights where a participant missed weight? OK back to the OG for me

Yes, and the numbers aren’t good. I can’t remember exactly but it’s like 70% of the time the guy who misses wins. 

4 days ago
1/1/01
Posts: 24603
KirkBJJ - 
PTA -

has there ever been an analysis done on the win/loss record of fights where a participant missed weight? OK back to the OG for me

Yes, and the numbers aren’t good. I can’t remember exactly but it’s like 70% of the time the guy who misses wins. 


That feels right. Thanks for the input. Curious how that compares to who the consensus thought would win. As in did the fighters that missed weight over index in wins versus what was expected? 

4 days ago
7/2/09
Posts: 9324
MMA Playwright -

I fought a guy who missed weight by like 4 pounds. The commission gave me half of his purse and he was weak from trying to make weight. Easy fight. 

I see it your way, too.  BUT the numbers don't lie.  The overwhelming majority of missed weight fights go in favour of the guy who missed weight.  It's an unfair advantage the vast majority of the time.  Glad to hear it worked out in your favour, though.  I wish the numbers were reversed.

4 days ago
8/20/03
Posts: 160453

If someone misses weight they should lose the win bonus.

Even if they win the fight, they don't get the win bonus.

4 days ago
1/1/01
Posts: 24605
Captain Canuck - 

If someone misses weight they should lose the win bonus.

Even if they win the fight, they don't get the win bonus.


i guess that goes back to the initial question that i had - does the win bonus mean more than the victory itself. I know that it depends on the individual situation, but a fighters record means a lot and a loss regardless of whether your opposition missed weight is still a loss

 

4 days ago
10/9/10
Posts: 17864
KirkBJJ -

I just made this up so be easy on me, but how bout something like...

Fighter A makes weight and fighter B misses.

Fighter A gets show money for both fighters if he does not want to take the fight. If he wants to continue on with the fight, fighter B who missed gets his win bonus with a win and that's it... fighter A keeps show money for both. If fighter B loses, fighter A gets half of fighter B's show money, plus his own show money and win bonus. So fighter B gets half of his show money and an L for his actions.

Something needs to get into these guys heads that it's not ok to miss weight and I hate the decision the guys who make weight have to make when somebody else screws up and gives themselves an advantage at the same time.

I guess the only drawback I can think of here is that with fighter A getting show money for both, he may not be compelled to accept the fight. Let’s assume that salary for both of them is 30/30. If fighter A doesn’t fight, he gets 60k either way. It obviously works out for fighter A and I believe would be effective on fighter B, but the organization putting the fight together will not benefit from it. They will essentially be paying out 60k for a fight that didn’t happen. That’s the only issue I see, but I do like the idea of fighter A benefitting more from fighter B missing weight. Either that or take 50-60 percent of the purse instead of the standard 20 percent. 

4 days ago
10/9/10
Posts: 17865
PTA -
Captain Canuck - 

If someone misses weight they should lose the win bonus.

Even if they win the fight, they don't get the win bonus.


i guess that goes back to the initial question that i had - does the win bonus mean more than the victory itself. I know that it depends on the individual situation, but a fighters record means a lot and a loss regardless of whether your opposition missed weight is still a loss

 

Also in that scenario, the guy that missed weight still gets his show money in full. However, he’s still getting his salary cut in half. I do agree with losing 50 percent or more of your purse if you miss weight. 

Are you asking if fighter A (didn’t miss weight) getting half of fighter B’s salary is more beneficial to them than the risk of losing to a guy with a clear advantage? I mean you sort of answered your own question there but yeah, it definitely depends on the guy. I think the vast majority of fighters accept fights when the other guy misses weight. Probably because they need the money or they just want to make their training camp worth it, or both. Every fighter knows if and when they accept, there’s a risk of loss. To them I don’t know if there’s much of a difference between losing to a guy that missed weight, and losing to somebody that made weight. 

4 days ago
1/1/01
Posts: 24607
MasterofMartialArts - 
PTA -
Captain Canuck - 

If someone misses weight they should lose the win bonus.

Even if they win the fight, they don't get the win bonus.


i guess that goes back to the initial question that i had - does the win bonus mean more than the victory itself. I know that it depends on the individual situation, but a fighters record means a lot and a loss regardless of whether your opposition missed weight is still a loss

 

Also in that scenario, the guy that missed weight still gets his show money in full. However, he’s still getting his salary cut in half. I do agree with losing 50 percent or more of your purse if you miss weight. 

Are you asking if fighter A (didn’t miss weight) getting half of fighter B’s salary is more beneficial to them than the risk of losing to a guy with a clear advantage? I mean you sort of answered your own question there but yeah, it definitely depends on the guy. I think the vast majority of fighters accept fights when the other guy misses weight. Probably because they need the money or they just want to make their training camp worth it, or both. Every fighter knows if and when they accept, there’s a risk of loss. To them I don’t know if there’s much of a difference between losing to a guy that missed weight, and losing to somebody that made weight. 


right. and addressing your last line - if there is an advantage to missing weight (i.e. the person missing weight has 70% win ratio) there should be fear on the part of the person who didn't miss, bc they will be more likely to generate a loss than if they fought someone who made weight. 

 

4 days ago
2/17/03
Posts: 18009
KirkBJJ - 

I just made this up so be easy on me, but how bout something like...

Fighter A makes weight and fighter B misses.

Fighter A gets show money for both fighters if he does not want to take the fight. If he wants to continue on with the fight, fighter B who missed gets his win bonus with a win and that's it... fighter A keeps show money for both. If fighter B loses, fighter A gets half of fighter B's show money, plus his own show money and win bonus. So fighter B gets half of his show money and an L for his actions.

Something needs to get into these guys heads that it's not ok to miss weight and I hate the decision the guys who make weight have to make when somebody else screws up and gives themselves an advantage at the same time.


I like that if you accept the premise of win-bonuses.

I personally don't like win bonuses, and I especially don't like when they are a huge chunk of the possible purse.

But, if you're going to have it, this works nicely.

4 days ago
2/17/03
Posts: 18010
MasterofMartialArts - 
KirkBJJ -

I just made this up so be easy on me, but how bout something like...

Fighter A makes weight and fighter B misses.

Fighter A gets show money for both fighters if he does not want to take the fight. If he wants to continue on with the fight, fighter B who missed gets his win bonus with a win and that's it... fighter A keeps show money for both. If fighter B loses, fighter A gets half of fighter B's show money, plus his own show money and win bonus. So fighter B gets half of his show money and an L for his actions.

Something needs to get into these guys heads that it's not ok to miss weight and I hate the decision the guys who make weight have to make when somebody else screws up and gives themselves an advantage at the same time.

I guess the only drawback I can think of here is that with fighter A getting show money for both, he may not be compelled to accept the fight. Let’s assume that salary for both of them is 30/30. If fighter A doesn’t fight, he gets 60k either way. It obviously works out for fighter A and I believe would be effective on fighter B, but the organization putting the fight together will not benefit from it. They will essentially be paying out 60k for a fight that didn’t happen. That’s the only issue I see, but I do like the idea of fighter A benefitting more from fighter B missing weight. Either that or take 50-60 percent of the purse instead of the standard 20 percent. 


Good point.

I wouldn't advise my guys to accept.

4 days ago
6/27/02
Posts: 9539
wiggum -
MasterofMartialArts - 
KirkBJJ -

I just made this up so be easy on me, but how bout something like...

Fighter A makes weight and fighter B misses.

Fighter A gets show money for both fighters if he does not want to take the fight. If he wants to continue on with the fight, fighter B who missed gets his win bonus with a win and that's it... fighter A keeps show money for both. If fighter B loses, fighter A gets half of fighter B's show money, plus his own show money and win bonus. So fighter B gets half of his show money and an L for his actions.

Something needs to get into these guys heads that it's not ok to miss weight and I hate the decision the guys who make weight have to make when somebody else screws up and gives themselves an advantage at the same time.

I guess the only drawback I can think of here is that with fighter A getting show money for both, he may not be compelled to accept the fight. Let’s assume that salary for both of them is 30/30. If fighter A doesn’t fight, he gets 60k either way. It obviously works out for fighter A and I believe would be effective on fighter B, but the organization putting the fight together will not benefit from it. They will essentially be paying out 60k for a fight that didn’t happen. That’s the only issue I see, but I do like the idea of fighter A benefitting more from fighter B missing weight. Either that or take 50-60 percent of the purse instead of the standard 20 percent. 


Good point.

I wouldn't advise my guys to accept.

Nor would I. So how do you think Dana treats the guy who missed weight after that? That is the real consequence. Right now they get to fight, most of the time win, and be all apologetic to the ufc and it’s fans as they move up the rankings. That’s bullshit. I hate that because the guy who did his job gets screwed with an L and career setback on top of a possible bonus. If fights get canceled and fighters start getting released or buried, they might get the hint that it’s not ok. I can deal with a couple sacrificial fights until the fighters get their shit together.