UnderGround Forums PRIDE Steroid Exclusion Clause

7/19/14 1:57 PM
1/1/01
Posts: 13411
Pathetic.

No budo.
7/19/14 2:04 PM
11/23/05
Posts: 18279
That's the next book I'm reading.. Phone Post 3.0
7/19/14 2:09 PM
2/15/12
Posts: 2402
Enson Yamato Inoue -
quality - That little note doesn't seem like any type of proof. I can do that also. It would have been more realistic if he showed a big chunk of the contract since it's understandable that he can't show the whole contract due to confidentiality.

I'm not doubting that it's genuine, but that doesn't look like real proof to me.

It is.  Why would I make that shit up?

Same reason why you photoshopped yourself into a bunch of images walking across Japan I guess.

/sarcasm Phone Post 3.0
7/19/14 2:16 PM
2/15/12
Posts: 2403

Links for Enson book. 

http://www.amazon.com/Live-Man-Become-Modern-Samurai/dp/1495961605/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1405791107&sr=1-1

 

http://www.destinyforever.com

 

7/19/14 4:10 PM
7/27/04
Posts: 15661
http://www.sherdog.com/news/interviews/4/Sherdogcom-Exclusive-OneonOne-with-PRIDE146s-Sakakibara-3317

What is the current PRIDE performance-enhancing testing policy, including steroids and other kind of substances?

Sakakibara: Right now, at this point, we have not tested any steroid usage. But for the illegal substances like stimulants or anything illegal, we conduct urine testing before and after the fights.

Hideki Yamamoto: It's a matter of the traceability, except those complicated drugs like EPO and steroids and some similar substance. We need to send a specimen to the laboratory. Who can protect traceability? We need a neutral third party. But for other illegal drug substances we can get a result at once.

Gross: One of the arguments for regulation and sanctioning is to have that oversight body, that check, that independent party making sure the fighters are safe, making sure there is testing going on of fighters. In Japan there's nothing like that. So in order for you to test for steroids you'd have to take that upon yourself. Is there any discussion in PRIDE of beginning to test for those substances in Japan?

Sakakibara: We don't have a third party. And maybe this is a cultural difference but we hired doctors, referees and judges and they are independent. Even though we hired them to work with PRIDE, they are the ones who are the ones responsible for all the safety issues and also drug testing. We leave everything up to them and they test. Under their responsibility they're going to submit us a result and then we judge according to the result. So for us it doesn't really make a big difference hiring a third party or hire those people by the promoter but to be independent from the promoter. I think it's a big cultural difference.

Gross: One more follow up. Two of the UFC's heavyweight champions have tested positive for steroids. It stands to reason that a good percentage of mixed martial artists use those kinds of drugs. Is it just PRIDE's opinion that that sort of use is not important, that it doesn't affect the outcome of a fight? Why is there no movement towards ridding that sort of usage from your promotion?

Sakakibara: We don't test for steroids or we don't have a third party to test for steroids. But we don't think that always the steroid user has an advantage over a fighter who's not using steroids. And we don't know who is using steroids and who is not using steroids. But we don't know if always the steroid users are winning over the non-steroid users.

Gross: OK, I have to follow up: If you test you would probably have a better idea of who was using steroids and who wasn't. So I still have not heard a reason why PRIDE does not test.

Sakakibara: We are not opposing American regulations and requirements of steroid testing. But in Japan there's no such thing. We are not required to test steroids for any fighter or any sports whatsoever. So we don't need, so we don't do. If we come to the U.S. and of course we have to follow their rules and regulations. If we have to do, we have to do.

Yamamoto: Perception. Steroids is well known in the States but not many people use steroids in Japan.

Sakakibara: You have a good point, but maybe if you look over all the sportsman, not just the fighter -- baseball player or gymnastics or anything -- any kind of sportsman don't use steroids in Japan in general. But in the U.S. the Major League players or runners or boxers -- they all use steroids. That's why there has to be some regulations. That's totally different culture and background.

Gross: I understand that in the Japanese culture, steroids are not a prevalent issue. My concern is the good majority of your fighters are international fighters. I'm looking at the poster for PRIDE "Final Conflict": three Brazilians, a Dutchman and two Europeans. Not one Japanese fighter on there. So just because no one is telling you to test for steroids, it's the same way that no one is telling you to test for cocaine or no one is telling you to test for anything else.

Yukino Kanda: Cocaine is illegal in Japan.

Gross: OK, so steroids are not illegal in Japan and that is why you do not test.

Yamamoto: It's a prescription drug. So if you try to use the steroids without prescription it's illegal.

Sakakibara: This is just like other drugs. Like, for instance, ulcer medicine is prescription drugs. And if someone uses without prescription it's illegal. So it's the same thing for the Japanese people.

Yamamoto: Using the painkiller -- you watched the Mark Kerr movie -- it's illegal usage even though the substance is legal.

Gross. I appreciate your patience. ... The theme of the day is regulation and PRIDE coming to the U.S., which is why I'm asking these sort of questions. One of the major functions for the regulatory bodies in the U.S. is to keep track of if a fighter got knocked out, and suspending that fighter from competition if necessary. Does PRIDE, when a fighter gets knocked out or injured in its organization, medically suspend a fighter? And if you do, how do you enforce so he doesn't fight [during the suspension]?

Kanda: Again, it's the same thing. We don't have any regulatory third party for any sanctioning body. So that's really up to the promoter to give the fighter a suspension period. We're very carefully consulting with the Japanese doctors. And also if the fighter is from outside of Japan we also get the result from that local doctors and make sure that fighter won't be fighting again anytime soon unless the doctor says that's OK. It's the same thing. We don't really need regulation but people follow, people have common sense.

Yamamoto: We don't say American people doesn't have common sense! But we're basically supposed to harmonize the suspension and we have been respecting their decision and we don't take any fighter who is under suspension. Josh Barnett (Pictures). We got offered but did not take him.
7/19/14 4:20 PM
4/30/03
Posts: 5256
Ttt for one if my fav fighters Phone Post 3.0
7/19/14 4:38 PM
10/10/11
Posts: 2350
It was a ring what you bring, even playing field, this isn't something we didn't already know, but I didn't think they would put it on paper lol what evs Phone Post 3.0
7/19/14 5:01 PM
11/24/10
Posts: 18025
Enson Yamato Inoue -
eXtv - Also, a million VTFU's to you Enson for doing this. Hope the Yakuza don't get too annoyed lol.

The Yakuza live a life based on honor.  I'm not telling no BS nor am I talking smack.  Just stating facts.  If there are some that don't live by honor and get annoyed by me.... so be it.  I was ready to die yesterday.

Brilliant.

I only wish this forum operated that way.

It's ok to disagree or see things differently.

I'll never understand why people click vote down just because they disagree with someone's OPINION.

There is no honor in that at all and it defeats the very purpose of such a board.

We all can have differing opinions and maybe will even change our beliefs when presented with new information.

I always assumed PRIDE fighters were juiced, I still do not know if all were but this contract info proves it was not necessarily frowned upon. Phone Post 3.0
7/19/14 5:47 PM
1/1/01
Posts: 50720
orcus - lol @ Pride fanboys. It's all about budo and honor, right! And the steroid testing had NOTHING to do with why Shogun, Crocop, Fedor, etc, all looked and performed differently the second they hit American soil.

Cmon man. Do we have to go thru this at this point?

Fedor won his first 4 fights on US soil by finish including taking out his 2 top UFC rivals of his era. Then in his losses, it didnt look like he was physically not up to par. It was the lack of his strategy and discipline he had in Pride. You attribute that to the juice?

Shogun won went 1/1 in his first 2 US fights (IFC) losing to Babalu when he was 22, then beat Randleman and Reem in Pride US fights then bombed vs Forrest in his debut. Then went thru the first of his well documented battles with his knee surgeries and worked his way back up and ended the Machida era and won the dam belt and also avenged that loss to Forrest in complete dominating fashion.

CC for sure fell off.

What about Nog? He went mixed in the UFC but still won the interim belt by also beating one of the top UFC rivals of his era and also beat another one in Randy. He could have lost to Ricco, sure. But it was still a close fight.

Wand i think had a pretty steady decline from the end of Pride, arguably losing to Arona twice, KTFO to CC, KTFO to Hendo (looking like he hadnt fully recovered from the CC KTFO imo)and coming up short against Chuck in his debut after those big KTFOs but still giving a good fight.

What about Rampage owning Chuck in Pride and in the UFC?

Gomi and Kang and Kid had all lost a few prior to coming to the UFC but acted like they were all still on 15 fight win streaks and suddenly got beat in the US.

The only fighter who had the sudden decline and never found his form in the UFC was CC. Thats all i can think of. Is there anyone else?


7/19/14 5:49 PM
1/1/01
Posts: 50721
Speaking of the UFC and Pride and roids and CC:

Well, we know Josh won the UFC belt but got busted then made his way to Pride but we know who beat him 3 times in Pride when Josh had the free reign to keep juicing without tests.
7/19/14 5:52 PM
5/27/09
Posts: 22201
Everybody knew PRIDE didn't drug test but it's still really cool to actually read it.
7/19/14 5:53 PM
1/1/01
Posts: 50722
Enson is only confirming, with actual written proof in the actual contract what we already knew....but we still dont know if that meant everyone was juicing in Pride and i think i just proved that the only sudden drop in performance from Pride to UFC and never finding their Pride form was CC.

So even if all of the above were on the juice in Pride, they still found success in the UFC, still beat many of their era counterparts, still won UFC belts, etc....

Of course, people look at Pride with gleemy nostalgia and exaggerate shit but....thats what the UG does best and we know this. I miss Pride but im still enjoying the sport at its highest level now too though im not enjoying the watered down cards but still can see some of this on TV so its give and take.

People do act like there were no boring fights in Pride though. This is selective memory in order to bash Dana's current product.
7/19/14 5:54 PM
1/1/01
Posts: 12435
sub Phone Post 3.0
7/19/14 5:54 PM
1/1/01
Posts: 50723
Jack Skellington - Everybody knew PRIDE didn't drug test but it's still really cool to actually read it.

Exactly. Its one thing to hear sources but its another to see it in print.

Enson also talked about this exact thing on the JRE recently funny enough.

7/19/14 6:55 PM
11/11/11
Posts: 5772
In Phone Post 3.0
7/19/14 6:56 PM
2/28/07
Posts: 19902

Lol @ all the dummies who act like 85% of ufc fighters aren't juiced out of their minds!!!

For God's sake the few times the AC did surprise tests everyone failed and Dana, Lorenzo and Joe even look fucking jacked out of their minds and they are all in their 40's..........

You people need to grow up....

7/19/14 6:58 PM
2/28/07
Posts: 19903
Wasa-B - 
orcus - lol @ Pride fanboys. It's all about budo and honor, right! And the steroid testing had NOTHING to do with why Shogun, Crocop, Fedor, etc, all looked and performed differently the second they hit American soil.

Cmon man. Do we have to go thru this at this point?

Fedor won his first 4 fights on US soil by finish including taking out his 2 top UFC rivals of his era. Then in his losses, it didnt look like he was physically not up to par. It was the lack of his strategy and discipline he had in Pride. You attribute that to the juice?

Shogun won went 1/1 in his first 2 US fights (IFC) losing to Babalu when he was 22, then beat Randleman and Reem in Pride US fights then bombed vs Forrest in his debut. Then went thru the first of his well documented battles with his knee surgeries and worked his way back up and ended the Machida era and won the dam belt and also avenged that loss to Forrest in complete dominating fashion.

CC for sure fell off.

What about Nog? He went mixed in the UFC but still won the interim belt by also beating one of the top UFC rivals of his era and also beat another one in Randy. He could have lost to Ricco, sure. But it was still a close fight.

Wand i think had a pretty steady decline from the end of Pride, arguably losing to Arona twice, KTFO to CC, KTFO to Hendo (looking like he hadnt fully recovered from the CC KTFO imo)and coming up short against Chuck in his debut after those big KTFOs but still giving a good fight.

What about Rampage owning Chuck in Pride and in the UFC?

Gomi and Kang and Kid had all lost a few prior to coming to the UFC but acted like they were all still on 15 fight win streaks and suddenly got beat in the US.

The only fighter who had the sudden decline and never found his form in the UFC was CC. Thats all i can think of. Is there anyone else?



U should just paste that somewhere to copy it whenever this mental patient starts jabbering. Don't waste the time of an original post on him...

7/19/14 8:19 PM
1/1/01
Posts: 50738
Haulport - 

Lol @ all the dummies who act like 85% of ufc fighters aren't juiced out of their minds!!!

For God's sake the few times the AC did surprise tests everyone failed and Dana, Lorenzo and Joe even look fucking jacked out of their minds and they are all in their 40's..........

You people need to grow up....


Lorenzo is def jacked up hard these days. So is Joe. Dana is getting pretty flab though. And he did have to undergo some kind of major surgery iirc. All that travelling and business probably does not lead to the healthiest lifestyle.
7/19/14 8:43 PM
3/28/10
Posts: 5441

That was probably why PRIDE was awesome. 

7/19/14 8:54 PM
2/24/10
Posts: 619
When Pride guys came to UFC and started losing, there were no random testing. It is the most easiest test to beat, when you know you're going to be tested on a certain day.
7/19/14 9:01 PM
6/16/07
Posts: 19161
holy backwards batman!!!
7/19/14 9:19 PM
10/27/03
Posts: 10438
Why is this shocking? The Pride boss at the time said it.

And Wand soon in an interview after the buy out said the reason Pride guys weren't doing well was that they had to transition off stuff illegal in the UFC/USA

But people still wanted to believe? Phone Post 3.0
7/19/14 9:37 PM
2/24/07
Posts: 11777
duh.
7/20/14 1:28 AM
4/20/08
Posts: 5636
Wasa-B - 
orcus - lol @ Pride fanboys. It's all about budo and honor, right! And the steroid testing had NOTHING to do with why Shogun, Crocop, Fedor, etc, all looked and performed differently the second they hit American soil.

Cmon man. Do we have to go thru this at this point?

Fedor won his first 4 fights on US soil by finish including taking out his 2 top UFC rivals of his era. Then in his losses, it didnt look like he was physically not up to par. It was the lack of his strategy and discipline he had in Pride. You attribute that to the juice?

Shogun won went 1/1 in his first 2 US fights (IFC) losing to Babalu when he was 22, then beat Randleman and Reem in Pride US fights then bombed vs Forrest in his debut. Then went thru the first of his well documented battles with his knee surgeries and worked his way back up and ended the Machida era and won the dam belt and also avenged that loss to Forrest in complete dominating fashion.

CC for sure fell off.

What about Nog? He went mixed in the UFC but still won the interim belt by also beating one of the top UFC rivals of his era and also beat another one in Randy. He could have lost to Ricco, sure. But it was still a close fight.

Wand i think had a pretty steady decline from the end of Pride, arguably losing to Arona twice, KTFO to CC, KTFO to Hendo (looking like he hadnt fully recovered from the CC KTFO imo)and coming up short against Chuck in his debut after those big KTFOs but still giving a good fight.

What about Rampage owning Chuck in Pride and in the UFC?

Gomi and Kang and Kid had all lost a few prior to coming to the UFC but acted like they were all still on 15 fight win streaks and suddenly got beat in the US.

The only fighter who had the sudden decline and never found his form in the UFC was CC. Thats all i can think of. Is there anyone else?



THIS

Cro Cop fell off because of the cage, then getting ko'd by Gonzaga ruined him. Also it seemed like in the Eddie Sanchez fight as if somebody had told him to MAKE it a head kick knockout.
7/20/14 2:30 AM
4/30/13
Posts: 1308
Cool piece of history.. Doesn't tarnish the organization whatsoever. Dunno why everyone's getting all butthurt Phone Post 3.0