UnderGround Forums PRIDE Steroid Exclusion Clause

7/21/14 2:51 PM
6/1/10
Posts: 6686
Whambo - Makes you wonder wtf Dana was thinking.

He was sending Chuck into a lions den of juiced up animals.

How do you know Chuck was not taking PEDs?
Chuck also fought in IVC in Brazil, no tests their either.

Maybe Lidell didn't care either way.
7/21/14 3:48 PM
5/31/03
Posts: 1832
Thank you enson for giving us all a glimpse of what the Pride days were like. Always enjoy reading your threads.
7/21/14 5:00 PM
4/20/08
Posts: 5663
time traveling 12er - Lol, wow guys trying to say this is a positive. This is Pride being honest and the UFC lying? That's some tin foil hat wearing twisted reasoning right there. Although I do agree that PED use is probably pretty bad in all sports. But there's still a huge difference between being able to cycle PED's strategically and be clean by fight time vs. being allowed in writing to roid all the way to the ring.

The point you are missing is....it's a level playing field to a degree regardless. The only difference is the testing. Fighters are going to take stuff, do you think anybody that failed a drug test had ONLY used that time that they failed the test?
7/22/14 1:32 PM
1/17/11
Posts: 1031
perfy - Thank you enson for giving us all a glimpse of what the Pride days were like. Always enjoy reading your threads.

Right on!

7/22/14 1:49 PM
6/5/05
Posts: 35032
Enson...sorry if this has already been covered but do you remember which event that contract was from? Thanks for posting.
7/23/14 2:40 AM
1/17/11
Posts: 1033
JimmersonzGlove - Enson...sorry if this has already been covered but do you remember which event that contract was from? Thanks for posting.

That specific contract was for Pride 10 and the Pride Grand Prix 2000

7/23/14 3:13 AM
4/20/08
Posts: 5667
time traveling 12er - 
Non N00B - 
time traveling 12er - Lol, wow guys trying to say this is a positive. This is Pride being honest and the UFC lying? That's some tin foil hat wearing twisted reasoning right there. Although I do agree that PED use is probably pretty bad in all sports. But there's still a huge difference between being able to cycle PED's strategically and be clean by fight time vs. being allowed in writing to roid all the way to the ring.

The point you are missing is....it's a level playing field to a degree regardless. The only difference is the testing. Fighters are going to take stuff, do you think anybody that failed a drug test had ONLY used that time that they failed the test?

My point was that modern PED use is no comparison to in-writing free pass to use them. Like I said there is a huge difference in people cycling and being clean by fight night to being able to be on whatever you want whenever you want.

No one is arguing that it was unfair to the guys in Pride that this was in contracts. Obviously when everyone is free to use PED's they're all on a level playing field. The problem is when people compare modern MMA to Pride and they come away wondering why modern fighters can't be the crazy maniacs that they remember in Pride. They think it comes down to management and Budo, when it was really more likely a free pass on PED's and fight fixing. It's a similar problem when Pro-wrestling fans cross over to MMA. They have different expectations on how things with go and how the athletes will perform. They expect every tiny thing to be controlled by one nefarious figure they can aim all their hate at.

The crazy maniac style of fighting was likely because people didnt want to get yellow carded, people werent as worried about getting cut, you didnt have to worry about being stuck against a cage and laid on for an entire round, and there werent camps dedicated specifically to point fighting to the degree there are today.
7/23/14 12:39 PM
1/1/01
Posts: 50788
The crazy maniac thing is because of a couple reasons aside from PEDs imo (not saying that wasnt a factor as well):

- Not everyone fought crazy maniac and most or all of the top guys were still skilled, strategic, etc

- You have to keep in mind that this was a lifetime ago in terms of the state of the game, it was more open back then and the actual level of the game is way more level and higher now

- But there were still boring and stalemate fights in Pride, people are just glossing this over with nostalgia and also to just add more ammo to their Dana/Zuffa hate

7/23/14 12:42 PM
1/1/01
Posts: 50789
Non N00B - 
time traveling 12er - 
Non N00B - 
time traveling 12er - Lol, wow guys trying to say this is a positive. This is Pride being honest and the UFC lying? That's some tin foil hat wearing twisted reasoning right there. Although I do agree that PED use is probably pretty bad in all sports. But there's still a huge difference between being able to cycle PED's strategically and be clean by fight time vs. being allowed in writing to roid all the way to the ring.

The point you are missing is....it's a level playing field to a degree regardless. The only difference is the testing. Fighters are going to take stuff, do you think anybody that failed a drug test had ONLY used that time that they failed the test?

My point was that modern PED use is no comparison to in-writing free pass to use them. Like I said there is a huge difference in people cycling and being clean by fight night to being able to be on whatever you want whenever you want.

No one is arguing that it was unfair to the guys in Pride that this was in contracts. Obviously when everyone is free to use PED's they're all on a level playing field. The problem is when people compare modern MMA to Pride and they come away wondering why modern fighters can't be the crazy maniacs that they remember in Pride. They think it comes down to management and Budo, when it was really more likely a free pass on PED's and fight fixing. It's a similar problem when Pro-wrestling fans cross over to MMA. They have different expectations on how things with go and how the athletes will perform. They expect every tiny thing to be controlled by one nefarious figure they can aim all their hate at.

The crazy maniac style of fighting was likely because people didnt want to get yellow carded, people werent as worried about getting cut, you didnt have to worry about being stuck against a cage and laid on for an entire round, and there werent camps dedicated specifically to point fighting to the degree there are today.

I agree with you somewhat but on the other hand, "point fighting" has, does and always will exist in MMA and sport period (Pride included). Its just playing to win. Its not always about and not always possible to get the finish.

I think people gloss over and exaggerate about everyone fighting for "budo" and everyone always trying to finish and also forget the level of the game is higher now and everyone is more trained and educated in everything and less so back in the day.

Yes, the cage does stifle the action but there were also stalemates and stale action in Pride too.
7/23/14 12:44 PM
5/11/06
Posts: 8232
I cant see a problem with an even playing field.