6/14/19 8:47 PM
1/13/10
Posts: 44699

Poor guy, Zinkin ruined this kid with the way he was managing him... he needed to be brought up slower and not fight the guys he did. We finally saw good things from him tonight and gets caught. 

If this is was his first loss it would be different.

6/14/19 9:05 PM
2/17/03
Posts: 12761
Most poorly managed fighter ever, perhaps.
6/14/19 9:09 PM
1/13/10
Posts: 44701
wiggum - Most poorly managed fighter ever, perhaps.

Which is surprising, Zinkin was talking this kid up since he was 15

6/14/19 9:11 PM
1/1/01
Posts: 46385
fought some tough guys but he doesnt have a chin for mma
6/14/19 9:17 PM
9/27/18
Posts: 532
Morris will fight for the belt someday

I don't think Pico will ever crack the top 20
6/14/19 9:19 PM
3/29/10
Posts: 3114

Too much head trauma for such a young career, too. 

6/14/19 9:20 PM
12/2/11
Posts: 953

Idk why everyone expected him to instantly be championship level.. He needs more experience, against people who aren't 12-0

6/14/19 9:21 PM
2/17/03
Posts: 12763
Davy - 

Idk why everyone expected him to instantly be championship level.. He needs more experience, against people who aren't 12-0


Right.

Cejudo and Cormier were more decorated athletes. But, they came up the right way. Starting at the small shows.
6/14/19 9:29 PM
12/30/12
Posts: 17691

It’s way too early to say that. Other guys have had rocky starts in their career. Now I will say he’s been brought along too quickly.

6/14/19 9:37 PM
1/23/06
Posts: 101406
Stern - 

It’s way too early to say that. Other guys have had rocky starts in their career. Now I will say he’s been brought along too quickly.


Truth. Plenty of elite fighters have had a streak of 2 losses in a row. Including violent/brutal finishes.
6/14/19 9:44 PM
12/9/18
Posts: 687

Pico is a great wrestler but I’m not sure if he has the top control to out grapple guys or the chin to be in stand up wars. Glass cannon with a gas tank issue, but he’s still dangerous for anyone. 

6/14/19 9:50 PM
1/1/01
Posts: 24286
A great athlete, but clearly was never going to be a top fighter.
6/14/19 9:59 PM
11/10/18
Posts: 2798

I’m just glad they didn’t give him easy fights because he clearly said those guys would be in the hospital. Kid has clearly had the worst possible people around him for a long time and they’ve ruined him. 

6/14/19 10:11 PM
1/1/01
Posts: 11108

He's fantastic at getting hit flush. Whenever people connect on him, they always seem to hit him perfectly.

I can't see him ever getting a title without help. 

6/14/19 10:13 PM
4/8/07
Posts: 39856
Eskimo - 

I’m just glad they didn’t give him easy fights because he clearly said those guys would be in the hospital. Kid has clearly had the worst possible people around him for a long time and they’ve ruined him. 


his ego + his management = disaster

6/14/19 10:29 PM
11/29/11
Posts: 10963

Moraes had a very similar start coming from kickboxing. Switched weight classes and got a big fight against Torres and went on a tear after.maybe the right opportunity and pico can do the same 

6/14/19 10:42 PM
6/17/16
Posts: 6770
Stern -

It’s way too early to say that. Other guys have had rocky starts in their career. Now I will say he’s been brought along too quickly.

I would say the fact he put together a four fight streak was a good sign but almost nobody who becomes anybody goes 4-3 in their first 7. Also all 3 of his losses are brutal KO finishes, dudes that go 4-3 with close decision losses get written off every weekend. Hot prospect or not you can't keep taking that kind of damage.

Hopefully he proves us all wrong if that's what he really wants to do but they really do need to stop feeding this kid to the wolves, just start matching him up with mid-level guys that have records similar to his.

He's part of the problem though as the interview after his last loss indicated he still thought he was better than his opponents and was calling for more top tier up-and-comers. Hopefully a sense of reality is settling in for him now and he will see what needs to be done to get his sealegs under him.

Everybody hears the stories of those guys that destroy everybody in practice but fail to shine under the bright lights. Hopefully Pico lives up to his promise.

6/14/19 10:43 PM
9/1/13
Posts: 1137

Didn’t Schaub call him the Lebron James of MMA?

6/14/19 10:47 PM
2/17/03
Posts: 12765
Target_the_Gash - 
Stern -

It’s way too early to say that. Other guys have had rocky starts in their career. Now I will say he’s been brought along too quickly.

I would say the fact he put together a four fight streak was a good sign but almost nobody who becomes anybody goes 4-3 in their first 7. Also all 3 of his losses are brutal KO finishes, dudes that go 4-3 with close decision losses get written off every weekend. Hot prospect or not you can't keep taking that kind of damage.

Hopefully he proves us all wrong if that's what he really wants to do but they really do need to stop feeding this kid to the wolves, just start matching him up with mid-level guys that have records similar to his.

He's part of the problem though as the interview after his last loss indicated he still thought he was better than his opponents and was calling for more top tier up-and-comers. Hopefully a sense of reality is settling in for him now and he will see what needs to be done to get his sealegs under him.

Everybody hears the stories of those guys that destroy everybody in practice but fail to shine under the bright lights. Hopefully Pico lives up to his promise.


Yeah.

Two big issues: First, is damage he has taken. So much for a young fighter. Second is the fact that Pico probably smashes some of the top guys in the world in sparring. But, sparring isn't the same thing as fighting when the lights shine and power is at full blast. So, his ego is probably not properly adjusted.
6/14/19 10:54 PM
10/9/10
Posts: 13375
Stern -

It’s way too early to say that. Other guys have had rocky starts in their career. Now I will say he’s been brought along too quickly.

It might be too early, but I can’t think of another high level fighter that was finished by back to back flatline KOs with less than 10 pro fights. 

He could rebound from this for sure, but taking two brutal KOs like that this early in his career says two things: 

1. He may not have the chin he needs for this sport 

2. He is taking a considerable amount of damage and shortening his career 

6/14/19 11:00 PM
10/9/10
Posts: 13376
wiggum -
Target_the_Gash - 
Stern -

It’s way too early to say that. Other guys have had rocky starts in their career. Now I will say he’s been brought along too quickly.

I would say the fact he put together a four fight streak was a good sign but almost nobody who becomes anybody goes 4-3 in their first 7. Also all 3 of his losses are brutal KO finishes, dudes that go 4-3 with close decision losses get written off every weekend. Hot prospect or not you can't keep taking that kind of damage.

Hopefully he proves us all wrong if that's what he really wants to do but they really do need to stop feeding this kid to the wolves, just start matching him up with mid-level guys that have records similar to his.

He's part of the problem though as the interview after his last loss indicated he still thought he was better than his opponents and was calling for more top tier up-and-comers. Hopefully a sense of reality is settling in for him now and he will see what needs to be done to get his sealegs under him.

Everybody hears the stories of those guys that destroy everybody in practice but fail to shine under the bright lights. Hopefully Pico lives up to his promise.


Yeah.

Two big issues: First, is damage he has taken. So much for a young fighter. Second is the fact that Pico probably smashes some of the top guys in the world in sparring. But, sparring isn't the same thing as fighting when the lights shine and power is at full blast. So, his ego is probably not properly adjusted.

Agreed about the ego comment. At first I thought it was a fight IQ issue (which I think is still a factor), but I also think he seems to lack respect for his opponent’s skills. 

This loss had nothing to do with being emotional in the fight either, there were technical adjustments Borics made that Pico didn’t see coming. 

He wasn’t changing angles on his shots, mixed in almost no striking, and just kept telegraphing the same double leg with no set ups. Any good, experienced striker in MMA will see that and eventually time a damaging knee like the one we saw. 

I will say he’s with the right team now (I believe), so hopefully he takes some time off and his team looks for a better matchup. 

6/14/19 11:02 PM
12/30/12
Posts: 17692
Target_the_Gash -
Stern -

It’s way too early to say that. Other guys have had rocky starts in their career. Now I will say he’s been brought along too quickly.

I would say the fact he put together a four fight streak was a good sign but almost nobody who becomes anybody goes 4-3 in their first 7. Also all 3 of his losses are brutal KO finishes, dudes that go 4-3 with close decision losses get written off every weekend. Hot prospect or not you can't keep taking that kind of damage.

Hopefully he proves us all wrong if that's what he really wants to do but they really do need to stop feeding this kid to the wolves, just start matching him up with mid-level guys that have records similar to his.

He's part of the problem though as the interview after his last loss indicated he still thought he was better than his opponents and was calling for more top tier up-and-comers. Hopefully a sense of reality is settling in for him now and he will see what needs to be done to get his sealegs under him.

Everybody hears the stories of those guys that destroy everybody in practice but fail to shine under the bright lights. Hopefully Pico lives up to his promise.

2 of his losses were via KO. The Freeman loss was via submission.

I do see where you’re coming from though. It’s definitely not an ideal way to start things.

6/14/19 11:57 PM
8/9/05
Posts: 3148
Why were both of Pico's elbows bloody?...
6/15/19 12:16 AM
1/13/10
Posts: 44707
Eyelasher - Why were both of Pico's elbows bloody?...

Mat burn?

6/15/19 12:38 AM
11/9/17
Posts: 7218

They hand fed him for a long time in Bellator. Maybe he's just not at a high level in MMA.

 

So which is it, do you guys want prospects babied forever or what?

 

Problem is major promotions need to stop bringing in guys with less than 10 wins. Experience matters and those who are special will always standout and rise through the ranks regardless.